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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 10-54 View Post
In my opinion, The pink pistols do NOT off set the political damage, and letigious scrutiny, that the gay and lesbian movement has imposed on this state. If perhaps the pink pistols were as passionate and adamant about 2A rights, as their bid for equal rights, gay marriage, etc...maybe I would be less skeptical. Voting trends trump their quest to pack a pistol unabated.

I apologize for the thread jack...but its a good discussion

The above post is why "alternative communities" avoid associating with the 2A crowd like the plague.
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  #42  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
You have a severe deficiency in reading between the lines.

Tom is Guy Montag Doe. Tom, the head of the Pink Pistols, had his unit inspected all the time because he stood up to be the NRA plaintiff.

Tom has done more than you for gun rights in California. Since you're so sure that they haven't done enough, you're going to join me marching in the gay pride parade with them, right? I mean, you wouldn't want them to continue to do more than you?

-Gene
Marching in a gay pride parade, in San Francisco, with a "flesh colored rubber thingy" in your holster does nothing for the advancement of the protection of 2A rights in california. I might as well march in North Korea and demand the resignation of Kim Jung Ill. If we were dealing with a rational audience, then maybe the pink pistols might have a shot at legitmacy. Until then it's just a show piece.

Maybe Tom has done more for gun rights in California than I have just sitting here on my laptop surfing the for sale ads. Maybe not. I suspect his voting habits, and those of his friends may be a bit self serving...and counter productive...therefore damages measured exponentially.
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  #43  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:17 PM
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Dewd, that funny thing in yer mouth is yer foot. How about jumpin in for the big win?

Ps. love the avatar.





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Originally Posted by 10-54 View Post
Marching in a gay pride parade, in San Francisco, with a "flesh colored rubber thingy" in your holster does nothing for the advancement of the protection of 2A rights in california. I might as well march in North Korea and demand the resignation of Kim Jung Ill. If we were dealing with a rational audience, then maybe the pink pistols might have a shot at legitmacy. Until then it's just a show piece.

Maybe Tom has done more for gun rights in California than I have just sitting here on my laptop surfing the for sale ads. Maybe not. I suspect his voting habits, and those of his friends may be a bit self serving...and counter productive...therefore damages measured exponentially.
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  #44  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:22 PM
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Marching in a gay pride parade, in San Francisco, with a "flesh colored rubber thingy" in your holster does nothing for the advancement of the protection of 2A rights in california. I might as well march in North Korea and demand the resignation of Kim Jung Ill. If we were dealing with a rational audience, then maybe the pink pistols might have a shot at legitimacy. Until then it's just a show piece.

Maybe Tom has done more for gun rights in California than I have just sitting here on my laptop surfing the for sale ads. Maybe not. I suspect his voting habits, and those of his friends may be a bit self serving...and counter productive...therefore damages measured exponentially.
Unless you're in the voting booths of the Pink Pistols while they vote for candidates, you have no idea how they vote on an individual basis, and for you to tar an entire group of people for "voting the wrong way" on the basis of polling of groups in general rather than judge people on an individual basis is wrong.

You also may not be paying attention, but that particular "community" has been on a full scale revolt against the Democratic party establishment because they lied through their teeth to get access to the gayTM and getting street work for turning out votes. A lot of them are refusing to vote at all, refuse to donate any money to a party, and will only donate to a candidate directly rather than contributing to other "causes". They are turning "one issue" which they weren't doing before. They are sick of being silenced by the Democratic/Progressive machine in California and elsewhere where 2A issues are coming up, and they are no longer tolerating being told to shut up and hand over money.

They are turning away from the Washington DC and Sacramento political cocktail party lobbyist groups and turning into a more grassroots organizations, much like the NRA's PVF and many other statewide grassroots gun rights organizations (like CGN).

I repeat this mantra, and I've never heard this disagreed with: "Would Wayne LaPierre tolerate this bull**** from a President or a Congress?"

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 06-04-2010 at 10:27 PM..
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  #45  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:25 PM
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Maybe Tom has done more for gun rights in California than I you have just sitting there on my your laptop surfing the for sale ads. Maybe not. I suspect his your voting posting habits, and those of his your friends may be a bit self serving...and counter productive...therefore damages measured exponentially.
fixed it for ya.
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  #46  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:28 PM
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  #47  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:36 PM
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Marching in a gay pride parade, in San Francisco, with a "flesh colored rubber thingy" in your holster does nothing for the advancement of the protection of 2A rights in california.
I disagree...

It's a predominately liberal crowd and it's going to be nice to see them out there standing up for their rights. For these guys to go out there and show some card-carrying liberals that it's okay to stand up in defense their liberty, on both gay rights and 2A issues, is commendable. Hopefully, it will rub off of some of the "Brady Bunch" types...
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  #48  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:38 PM
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Unless you're in the voting booths of the Pink Pistols while they vote for candidates, you have no idea how they vote on an individual basis, and for you to tar is wrong.
um... we are talking about a GROUP. Are YOU paying attention?
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  #49  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:42 PM
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fixed it for ya.
thanks buddy
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  #50  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:48 PM
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Well I wish you all the best and hope for a good turn out. I will be mainting a perfect attendance record. (zero) Have fun and be sure to rub off on those rascally liberal card carrying Brady bunches.
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  #51  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:48 PM
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had his unit inspected all the time
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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  #52  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:58 PM
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You say that like it's a bad thing.
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  #53  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:12 PM
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Well I wish you all the best and hope for a good turn out. I will be mainting a perfect attendance record. (zero) Have fun and be sure to rub off on those rascally liberal card carrying Brady bunches.
You can keep preaching to the choir. I'll challenge both your beliefs and the crowd at pride's belief. I have a great story from last year about causing one screaming liberal to question his values. It involves me reminding him that one or more of us could be carrying at the time he was threatening us...

At least you're consistent about being small.

-Gene
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  #54  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:21 PM
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You can keep preaching to the choir. I'll challenge both your beliefs and the crowd at pride's belief. I have a great story from last year about causing one screaming liberal to question his values. It involves me reminding him that one or more of us could be carrying at the time he was threatening us...

At least you're consistent about being small.

-Gene
Let's get one thing straight, I am not intolerant of homosexuals, I am intolerant of their lifestyle. Because I am being asked to participate in a parade that celebrates that aberrant lifestyle, I am inclined to refuse to participate. However, should Calguns choose to become involved in a parade, for example, an independence day parade, and I am available to participate, and should a homosexual be present to march with us, I would gladly march with everyone who is there.
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  #55  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:36 PM
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Marching in a gay pride parade, in San Francisco, with a "flesh colored rubber thingy" in your holster does nothing for the advancement of the protection of 2A rights in california. I might as well march in North Korea and demand the resignation of Kim Jung Ill. If we were dealing with a rational audience, then maybe the pink pistols might have a shot at legitmacy. Until then it's just a show piece.
You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.
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  #56  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:39 PM
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At least you're consistent about being small.
You sure keep dropping the double entendres tonight don't you Gene?
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  #57  
Old 06-05-2010, 2:39 AM
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Liberty, in all its forms, should be protected, not just for straight people.

A bunch of people marching in gay pride parades to promote 2A cannot be viewed as anything but pro-2A. People who are pro-2A would only disparage or otherwise oppose such action if they are irrational or fools. Even if you do not like gays, you can still support and celebrate those who are working to make inroads into the anti-2A bastion for the pro-2A position and liberty in general.

The thing about liberty is that people you might not like get to exercise it.

TBoyer: Can you tell me where to get one of those T-Shirts that says "armed gays don't get bashed"? I've got some gay friends who are kind of on the fence about the 2A. They do, on occasion, listen to me, "the breeder", and might find those shirts a likeable gift. Please PM me.
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  #58  
Old 06-05-2010, 7:22 AM
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You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.
Exactly this.
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  #59  
Old 06-05-2010, 7:31 AM
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Tentative yes; I am working out my schedule and seeing if friends can join.
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You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.
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  #60  
Old 06-05-2010, 8:01 AM
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You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.
Do you ever wonder why so many gay folks move to SF? Because they've often found out they couldn't be accepted the way they were where they were from. So they move to places like SF where they don't have to worry about it - places that are generally quite liberal. And like in a lot of heavily liberal places, there are a lot of people favoring gun control.

Which doesn't mean they're lost for the 2A movement at all. A lot of liberals - including on this site - are pro-gun. And it's been my experience that a lot of gay folks are perfectly willing to be educated about gun rights and guns in general. How do you think the Pink Pistols came about?

Dismissing this like it's not going to accomplish anything is really short-sighted. Even if you think it's useless, at least some people are trying out there to reach out and do some positive PR for gun rights. It's mind-blowing that you don't see the positive effect of LGBT folks embracing the 2A in front of a sympathetic crowd.

Instead you chose to dismiss it entirely, with absolutely no evidence to support your argument other than your caricatural - and throughly inaccurate - view of gays and SF.
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  #61  
Old 06-05-2010, 9:35 AM
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Do you ever wonder why so many gay folks move to SF? Because they've often found out they couldn't be accepted the way they were where they were from. So they move to places like SF where they don't have to worry about it - places that are generally quite liberal. And like in a lot of heavily liberal places, there are a lot of people favoring gun control.

Which doesn't mean they're lost for the 2A movement at all. A lot of liberals - including on this site - are pro-gun. And it's been my experience that a lot of gay folks are perfectly willing to be educated about gun rights and guns in general. How do you think the Pink Pistols came about?

Dismissing this like it's not going to accomplish anything is really short-sighted. Even if you think it's useless, at least some people are trying out there to reach out and do some positive PR for gun rights. It's mind-blowing that you don't see the positive effect of LGBT folks embracing the 2A in front of a sympathetic crowd.

Instead you chose to dismiss it entirely, with absolutely no evidence to support your argument other than your caricatural - and throughly inaccurate - view of gays and SF.
i take it that this comment was directed at 10-54 and not berto, correct?
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  #62  
Old 06-05-2010, 2:45 PM
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I just made my hotel reservation, I'm in. Any suggestions on proper or preferred attire?
very comfortable walking shoes and comfortable clothes. I also recommend a Camelbak or something similar.

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  #63  
Old 06-05-2010, 2:59 PM
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I don't care what wheter someone is left, middle or right. What I care about is are they trully "Americans".

I identify someone as an American if the support the values espoused in the Declaration of Independence, that we are created equal, that our rights come to us from the creator, not government, and that governments get their authority from the consent of the governed, and that if a government becomes destructive to those rights, that not only do we have the right, but the duty to make changes by whatever means necessary.

To me the 2nd amendment trumps everything because without our ability to enforce our rights, they are government revocable privileges.

Many members of this board and I will probably disagree on many issues.

For example: I like Ron Paul's proposal of cutting our Federal budget by 1 trillion dollars and eliminating the Income Tax, but if insist on spending a trillion dollars in foreign military spending, I would replace the Income Tax with a sales tax.

I know some of you feel the progressive marxist economic based Income Tax system is the best tax system in the world and of course would oppose such a radical measure. After all, what would you do on Apr fools day (Apr 15)

It is no secret that I would end the drug prohibition. I figure that is at least a 500 billion dollar a year drain on our society.

Ending the drug war and bringing back full on Industrial Hemp would net a economic stimulus of at least 500 billion annually.

Of course for some people it is more important to say NO to drugs, to fill our prisons, to make sure the Mexican Drug cartels maintain their 40 billion dollar annual business. Then of course there are the Columbians, the Chinese, the Russian and Italian mafias, etc etc.

We in the Pink Pistols have not exactly been well recieved in the Gay Community, we are viewed as Heretics just like Galileo when he dared challenge the Catholic Church with the heresy that the earth was round.

Tom, Deanna and myself have been in the public eye.

Gray Peterson has laid the groundwork for significant post MacDonald cases that will help move along 50 state carry.

The march will be a great opportunity for us to have a meet and greet and we will get to march down San Fran, as DI Fi says, "A bastion of Sanity".

If you want to win, you have to be willing to get dirty.

I went to Washington DC on April 19 th and spoke at the 2nd amendment march, the audience was definitely more socially conservative and I didn't know how well I would be recieved, but I went anyway in spite of knowing that on many issues I would have perceived significant differences with the crowd.

The average homicide rate for the nation is around 10 per 100,000. The homicide rate for transexuals like me is at least 300 per 100,000.

Putting myself in the public eye doesn't exactly lower my personal risk, but I did it anyway because it needed to be done.

MNSBC reporter Rachel Madow isn't exactly happy with me from what I hear, all I can say is I call things as I see them.

This Gay Pride March is the front lines on the war for our gun rights.

All I can say to the members of this board is this, here is your opportunity to be one of the elite gun rights activists.

California is ground zero, especially San Fran.

Enough on my rant.

Nicki
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  #64  
Old 06-05-2010, 3:19 PM
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10-54: correct me of I'm wrong, but have you ever shown up to a 2A advocacy event?

Apparently your "perfect record" of non-attendance isn't limited to the Pink Pistols.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:18 PM
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Against my better judgement, I'm going to give my 2 cents here before this thread gets shut down as well.

First cent: I lived in San Francisco for a number of years, until just a couple years ago when I got the hell out. I never had a problem with the gay people who didn't have a problem with me, a straight white man. Yes, even gay people can be prejudicial. Yes, sometimes you won't get served in the gay bar you walked into with your new girlfriend who sneakily wanted to test your "openmindedness" and wound up shocked and bewildered at how you were treated.

Second cent: I would march in the pride parade with the Pink Pistols, if only I didn't now live so far away and have vowed to boycott SF because of it's stance on SB 1070.

As for these threads on the parade, wow, they are full of fail for sure. Both sides seem to be so entrenched, so dogmatic that they won't even listen anymore, just preach at each other. Open your minds people, we're all on the same side here.

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Old 06-06-2010, 12:02 AM
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Hey Tom

I would be honored to march with you guys , and count pingu in as well .
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:12 AM
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First cent: I lived in San Francisco for a number of years, until just a couple years ago when I got the hell out. I never had a problem with the gay people who didn't have a problem with me, a straight white man. Yes, even gay people can be prejudicial. Yes, sometimes you won't get served in the gay bar you walked into with your new girlfriend who sneakily wanted to test your "openmindedness" and wound up shocked and bewildered at how you were treated.
They violated the Unruh Civil Rights Act. Report them.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:33 AM
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They violated the Unruh Civil Rights Act. Report them.
Do you really think a claim like that would be taken as anything more than gay bashing in a city like SF? That's the problem with "protected classes" is that if you're not a member of one, the establishment doesn't want to believe you can be discriminated against.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:14 AM
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Do you really think a claim like that would be taken as anything more than gay bashing in a city like SF? That's the problem with "protected classes" is that if you're not a member of one, the establishment doesn't want to believe you can be discriminated against.
You misunderstand how discrimination law works. The protected class is not the specifics, but all of it.

http://ag.ca.gov/civilrights/pdf/01cr_handbook.pdf

See page 45. You can report them to Department of Fair Employment and Housing in Sacramento, rather than going to San Francisco's agencies.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:09 PM
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Have fun guys, this sounds like a great way to show that gun owners can be perfectly open minded and accepting people while promoting 2A rights. I'd come up and join, but its my girlfriends birthday and I can't afford to get myself into that kind of trouble right now.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:18 PM
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dude this is rad!!!!!

I would if i was closer seriously!
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Old 06-06-2010, 2:13 PM
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10-54: correct me of I'm wrong, but have you ever shown up to a 2A advocacy event?

Apparently your "perfect record" of non-attendance isn't limited to the Pink Pistols.
Don't know 10-54 personally, but I am assuming you do based on your conclusion?

Not sure how all these internet detectives are getting their info on who has done what for the second amendment???
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Old 06-06-2010, 2:49 PM
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Don't know 10-54 personally, but I am assuming you do based on your conclusion?

Not sure how all these internet detectives are getting their info on who has done what for the second amendment???
by 10-54's own admission and the fact that the person you're quoting has a pretty good near perfect attendance record for suiting up and showing up.
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  #74  
Old 06-06-2010, 4:08 PM
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Let's get one thing straight, I am not intolerant of homosexuals, I am intolerant of their lifestyle. Because I am being asked to participate in a parade that celebrates that aberrant lifestyle, I am inclined to refuse to participate. However, should Calguns choose to become involved in a parade, for example, an independence day parade, and I am available to participate, and should a homosexual be present to march with us, I would gladly march with everyone who is there.
Let's try this approach then.

Politicians pander to their base to secure votes.
Politicians that control this state are generally Democrats.
The Democrat base consists of a LOT of LGBT and those that support the LGBT.
If Democrats see enough of their base is pro-2A, they might also go pro-2A.

Likely? No. Does that mean you shouldn't bother trying? Probably not.

I for one don't vote on 2A alone and I'm a moderate left left and usually vote left. If I could get both, GREAT! If I can't, I'll take LGBT any day of the week. It may be sacrilegious to say here, but I find the right to be with the person you want to be with to be far more fundamental than 2A.
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Last edited by snobord99; 06-06-2010 at 4:14 PM..
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Old 06-06-2010, 4:32 PM
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I don't care what wheter someone is left, middle or right. What I care about is are they trully "Americans".

I identify someone as an American if the support the values espoused in the Declaration of Independence, that we are created equal, that our rights come to us from the creator, not government, and that governments get their authority from the consent of the governed, and that if a government becomes destructive to those rights, that not only do we have the right, but the duty to make changes by whatever means necessary.

To me the 2nd amendment trumps everything because without our ability to enforce our rights, they are government revocable privileges.

Many members of this board and I will probably disagree on many issues.

For example: I like Ron Paul's proposal of cutting our Federal budget by 1 trillion dollars and eliminating the Income Tax, but if insist on spending a trillion dollars in foreign military spending, I would replace the Income Tax with a sales tax.

I know some of you feel the progressive marxist economic based Income Tax system is the best tax system in the world and of course would oppose such a radical measure. After all, what would you do on Apr fools day (Apr 15)

It is no secret that I would end the drug prohibition. I figure that is at least a 500 billion dollar a year drain on our society.

Ending the drug war and bringing back full on Industrial Hemp would net a economic stimulus of at least 500 billion annually.

Of course for some people it is more important to say NO to drugs, to fill our prisons, to make sure the Mexican Drug cartels maintain their 40 billion dollar annual business. Then of course there are the Columbians, the Chinese, the Russian and Italian mafias, etc etc.

We in the Pink Pistols have not exactly been well recieved in the Gay Community, we are viewed as Heretics just like Galileo when he dared challenge the Catholic Church with the heresy that the earth was round.

Tom, Deanna and myself have been in the public eye.

Gray Peterson has laid the groundwork for significant post MacDonald cases that will help move along 50 state carry.

The march will be a great opportunity for us to have a meet and greet and we will get to march down San Fran, as DI Fi says, "A bastion of Sanity".

If you want to win, you have to be willing to get dirty.

I went to Washington DC on April 19 th and spoke at the 2nd amendment march, the audience was definitely more socially conservative and I didn't know how well I would be recieved, but I went anyway in spite of knowing that on many issues I would have perceived significant differences with the crowd.

The average homicide rate for the nation is around 10 per 100,000. The homicide rate for transexuals like me is at least 300 per 100,000.

Putting myself in the public eye doesn't exactly lower my personal risk, but I did it anyway because it needed to be done.

MNSBC reporter Rachel Madow isn't exactly happy with me from what I hear, all I can say is I call things as I see them.

This Gay Pride March is the front lines on the war for our gun rights.

All I can say to the members of this board is this, here is your opportunity to be one of the elite gun rights activists.

California is ground zero, especially San Fran.

Enough on my rant.

Nicki
SJ Pink Pistol Coordinator

Godspeed to you Nick-

great post.
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  #76  
Old 06-06-2010, 4:37 PM
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we would get better attendance by asking Bill W and Gene to wear utilikilts for the occasion
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  #77  
Old 06-06-2010, 4:45 PM
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Default I Do Not Understand The Issue?

Would anyone here bar a 2A supporter because he or she was an atheist, Catholic or Christian?

Or maybe because of their Gender, Nationality or Race?

Maybe because of someone's physical size or shape? How about their income?

I have never actually supported Gay Rights, but I support the Pink Pistols in their 2A movement. And from from what I have learned of Nicki, I support them.

They are in SF, the worst 2A City no doubt, and fighting for OUR 2A rights. And for that - they have my support (even though my specific handkerchief color wasn't on the list, LOL).

If my health was better (bad back), I'd be there...

The fight is 2A. Period...

Go PP!
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I guess it depends on what your definition of law breaking is.
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Here, let me Google that for you ... :)

No, no, that would be cruel.

Last edited by chiselchst; 06-06-2010 at 4:51 PM..
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  #78  
Old 06-06-2010, 4:55 PM
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I'm guessing all the "why march, it's in San Francisco" people would also be the ones on gunbroker saying "no sales to CA?" The political climate is what it is, why bother trying to change it or help out those that are trying to change it, right?
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Old 06-06-2010, 5:19 PM
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I am sure if there's a need for it BW and GH would be willing to do it -

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we would get better attendance by asking Bill W and Gene to wear utilikilts for the occasion
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Old 06-06-2010, 6:18 PM
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by 10-54's own admission and the fact that the person you're quoting has a pretty good near perfect attendance record for suiting up and showing up.
Perfect attendance record where?
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