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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-04-2010, 6:01 PM
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Default 80 % lowers legal?

is it legal to sell these in ca and if you do make your own lower do you have to register it? any suggestions as to where to get one?(if they are legal)

thanks in advance
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Old 04-04-2010, 6:31 PM
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You can sell an 80% lower if you haven't done anything to it. If you sell it after it's been completed, that IS illegal. As long as you treat it the same as any other CA legal AR, you're fine.(i.e. bullet button, featureless build). Registration is not required of just a plain old rifle. I think ar15plus.com has them.
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Old 04-04-2010, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman5669 View Post
is it legal to sell these in ca and if you do make your own lower do you have to register it? any suggestions as to where to get one?(if they are legal)

thanks in advance
This is the best place to get them. They’ll be back in stock soon.
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/category.php?cid=23
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Old 04-04-2010, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by powderedtoastman View Post
You can sell an 80% lower if you haven't done anything to it. If you sell it after it's been completed, that IS illegal. As long as you treat it the same as any other CA legal AR, you're fine.(i.e. bullet button, featureless build). Registration is not required of just a plain old rifle. I think ar15plus.com has them.
I'm pretty sure your wrong about being able to sell it later. As long as you built it with the intention of keeping it, but decided to sell it later, it's legal. If it's sold at a later date, it's going to need a serial number when you make it.
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Old 04-04-2010, 8:55 PM
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A completed 80% can be sold. Building a firearm and then later deciding to sell it is not manufacturing without a liscense.
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Old 04-05-2010, 7:27 AM
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Yes, it is legal to build a gun at home (as long as it is a model that is/was commercially available)
Yes, it is legal to sell it in the future (ATF requires you to mark the receiver)
No, you may not build a gun with the INTENT to sell (this would require a Type 07 FFL)

Discussed in extreme detail here
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=167076&page=2

Read the ATF letters that are posted half-way down that page. Lays it out extremely clearly.

Pasting some text from the ATF letter

For your information, a nonlicensee may manufacture a semiautomatic rifle for his or her own personal use. As long as the firearm remains in the custody of the person who manufactured it, the firearm need not be marked with a serial number or name and location of the manufacturer. However, if the firearm is transferred to another party at some point in the future, the firearm must be marked in accordance with the provisions set forth in 27 CFR 478.92 (formerly 178.92)
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Old 04-05-2010, 7:30 AM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
This is the best place to get them. They’ll be back in stock soon.
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/category.php?cid=23
+1. Nathan @ Tactical Machining is very professional making the whole process easy.
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Old 04-05-2010, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ironman5669 View Post
is it legal to sell these in ca and if you do make your own lower do you have to register it? any suggestions as to where to get one?(if they are legal)

thanks in advance
  • They are 100% legal.
  • Finishing them is 100% legal.
  • You are under ZERO legal obligation to register it.
  • If you decide you no longer need/want it, it is 100% legal to sell it as long as it has all the proper markings (MFR, SN#, Model, Cal.)
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Old 04-05-2010, 7:38 AM
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Originally Posted by limitdown View Post
Yes, it is legal to build a gun at home (as long as it is a model that is/was commercially available)
I'm sorry but this is not true at all.

You may design and build an entirely new firearm design as long as it is a normal legal title 1 firearm.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Old 04-05-2010, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by skkeeter View Post
I'm pretty sure your wrong about being able to sell it later. As long as you built it with the intention of keeping it, but decided to sell it later, it's legal. If it's sold at a later date, it's going to need a serial number when you make it.
I stand corrected. Didn't know you could get them marked. Who would have to do the marking?
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Old 04-05-2010, 8:15 AM
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Is there a schematic for the finish machining needed?
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Old 04-05-2010, 8:18 AM
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anyone know if there's a jig which'll mill out the magwell? (have all coverage for all milling/drilling needed?)

i was checking out this:

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/inde...roducts_id=227

and

http://www.cncguns.com/tooling.html

and i finally figured out what a 0% lower is...ahaha.
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Old 04-05-2010, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
  • They are 100% legal.
  • Finishing them is 100% legal.
  • You are under ZERO legal obligation to register it.
  • If you decide you no longer need/want it, it is 100% legal to sell it as long as it has all the proper markings (MFR, SN#, Model, Cal.)
Agree with the proviso that you sell "occasionally". If you are cranking out and selling 12 per month you may get a knock on the door.
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Old 04-05-2010, 8:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTXR390 View Post
anyone know if there's a jig which'll mill out the magwell? (have all coverage for all milling/drilling needed?)

i was checking out this:

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/inde...roducts_id=227

and

http://www.cncguns.com/tooling.html

and i finally figured out what a 0% lower is...ahaha.
Jigs:
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/category.php?cid=22

Tutorial:
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/for....php?f=10&t=11
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Old 04-05-2010, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by powderedtoastman View Post
I stand corrected. Didn't know you could get them marked. Who would have to do the marking?
Anyone could do the marking. You could do it yourself pretty easily with a set of punches if you're careful.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
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Old 04-05-2010, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1236 View Post
Is there a schematic for the finish machining needed?

You can download the colt print here.

http://www.cncguns.com/downloads.html
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2010, 11:39 PM
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so anyone know anyone that has the equiptment to finish these?
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2010, 6:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock_holiday View Post
You can download the colt print here.

http://www.cncguns.com/downloads.html
thats what i was looking for thank you.
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Old 04-20-2010, 4:12 PM
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There has been a recent change in what ATF is allowing to be completed on an 80% receiver. In the past certain manufacturers received letters stating that it was OK to drill the selector hole. That is no longer the case. We received an updated opinion on what is allowed at the beginning of April. You can download a copy of the letter we received here,

ATF 80% Letter
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Old 04-20-2010, 4:26 PM
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Tagged for future reference!
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Old 04-20-2010, 4:29 PM
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Haven't you guys heard of "build parties"? If this was illegal we wouldn't be advertising them here. Yea, most of the larger BPs are for AKs but, I've heard of many other types of firearms being home built. ARs (rifles and pistols), AKs(rifles and pistols), MACs, VZ58s, 1919s, M2s, Stens, Sterlings, MG42s, etc.
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Old 04-20-2010, 7:02 PM
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Assuming u are the one fabricating the receiver, or completing it... In my opinion, u would engrave or stamp a makers mark, and a serial #. That way u can easily register it. If u dont.... Even if u dont sell, L.E. wont like an un marked weapon.

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Originally Posted by powderedtoastman View Post
I stand corrected. Didn't know you could get them marked. Who would have to do the marking?
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Old 04-20-2010, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
Anyone could do the marking. You could do it yourself pretty easily with a set of punches if you're careful.
If anyone does try to do with punches, make sure the letter is centered on the punch. While back someone did one perfectly lined up but the HF punches caused the serial to come out misaligned
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Old 04-20-2010, 7:33 PM
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Thats crazy funny.


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Originally Posted by Noobert View Post
If anyone does try to do with punches, make sure the letter is centered on the punch. While back someone did one perfectly lined up but the HF punches caused the serial to come out misaligned
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Old 04-20-2010, 7:35 PM
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Default crazy funny

Noobert..... U rock.

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Thats crazy funny.
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Old 04-20-2010, 8:26 PM
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Real cool sites... Been to cnc guns.com...... awesome models... Free.. Please support this dude is doing this for free.. I would never recomend any of this, of course.......



R
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTXR390 View Post
anyone know if there's a jig which'll mill out the magwell? (have all coverage for all milling/drilling needed?)

i was checking out this:

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/inde...roducts_id=227

and

http://www.cncguns.com/tooling.html

and i finally figured out what a 0% lower is...ahaha.
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Old 04-20-2010, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mechified View Post
Assuming u are the one fabricating the receiver, or completing it... In my opinion, u would engrave or stamp a makers mark, and a serial #.
you can if you want, not required.
Quote:
That way u can easily register it.
you can if you want, not required.

Quote:
If u dont.... Even if u dont sell, L.E. wont like an un marked weapon.
doesn't matter if they LIKE it, an unmarked firearm that has never been marked is not illegal to possess. That is different than removing the serial number from a firearm that was already marked.
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Old 05-20-2010, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
you can if you want, not required.
you can if you want, not required.

doesn't matter if they LIKE it, an unmarked firearm that has never been marked is not illegal to possess. That is different than removing the serial number from a firearm that was already marked.
Thanks for the clarification... again it was just my opinion.
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  #29  
Old 05-21-2010, 8:22 AM
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not to get too off topic, but these can be made into pistols as well, correct? at which point you could drop mags and use prebans as long as there isnt a stock attached?
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Old 05-21-2010, 8:46 AM
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not to get too off topic, but these can be made into pistols as well, correct? at which point you could drop mags and use prebans as long as there isnt a stock attached?
If it's an 80% 1911 frame, or M11/9 frame or something, sure.

But not an 80% AR receiver.

If you build an 80% AR receiver into an AR pistol, it utilizes the magazine outside of the pistol grip, which is an AW feature for pistols. The upper will most likely have a threaded barrel as well, also an AW feature.

You would be stuck to using a bullet button and 10rd mags.

Or, you could disable the gas system, and build in essence a bolt-action repeater. A bullet button would not be required at that point, and you COULD use hicaps, but you would no longer have a semi-auto pistol.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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  #31  
Old 05-28-2010, 10:46 AM
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