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  #41  
Old 09-07-2009, 5:28 PM
SuperSet SuperSet is offline
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I feel for ya bud. Wish I could help more as I've had a lot of time behind all the magnifiers, except this one since it's new. I still can't picture the setup so you'll have to post pics when you can.
Have you already talked to DM to get some direction? There's nothing anyone here can do for you unless they have one to compare against. I'll probably still go for the DM for my backup upper outta curiosity.
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  #42  
Old 09-07-2009, 10:32 PM
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Notice how the vertical adjustment is fully extended. Perhapa If I get a riser for this mount it would hold it's position better because I would not need to fully extend the vertical adjustment?

Notice that the eotech is mounted to the Omega Rail an not the upper. This is because with the BUIS it will not fit. If I was to remove the BUIS, then the eye relief for the magnifier would be better and the eotech would fit on the flat top upper, AND the magnifier would be closer to the Eotech (right now I lose some eye relief because the top of the eotech is visable unless you get your eye pretty close.

So then Remove the my BUIS?
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  #43  
Old 09-07-2009, 10:42 PM
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Interesting and I wouldn't remove the BUIS. This should all work together but that's in theory, you have the fact right there in front of you.

FWIW, the original EOTech 3X magnifier had an elevation problem too. The Samson mount that comes with the DM is supposed to handle both EOTech absolute and integral riser mounts. It looks like it might be off.

Report back what DM has to say about vertical alignment and the fit.
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  #44  
Old 09-07-2009, 11:04 PM
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one more
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2009, 5:59 AM
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would it fit on mine?
i'm thinking i'd have to move the aimpoint forward some more.

i might just get a primary arms optic and the larue mount. seems like it would fit based of this pic, and i might be able to squeeze the aimpoint up slightly towards it.



Last edited by zangetsu; 09-08-2009 at 6:08 AM..
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  #46  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:10 AM
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SuperSet,
For the original 3x mag with the ARMS FTS mount. Do you recommend getting a riser to align with an Eotech 516/517 or to replace the mount?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
FWIW, the original EOTech 3X magnifier had an elevation problem too.
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  #47  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:56 AM
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No, the original EOtech 3x with Samson FTS was made to align with raised height EOtechs like the 516, 517, 557, etc. It had an alignment problem with absolute cowitness models such as the 512, 552, XPS, etc. The riser had to go on those absolute cowitness models to make it align properly.
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  #48  
Old 09-08-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
No, the original EOtech 3x with Samson FTS was made to align with raised height EOtechs like the 516, 517, 557, etc. It had an alignment problem with absolute cowitness models such as the 512, 552, XPS, etc. The riser had to go on those absolute cowitness models to make it align properly.
Not to get too far off topic, but what does it mean to have an absolute co witness model? I seem to be able to just barley use my troy BUIS to co-witness the eotech but it does seem to work on the 516.

I think the 516 needs to be lower, or perhaps a riser for the Samson mount would allow me to secure the Vertical alignment pice further in the track and prevent the play that is causing the problem (Magnifiers objective tilts upwards and downwards due to play in the rail track.)

I really don't want to use a riser though... I probably would have been much better off getting the 4x eotech, since even if a riser fixes the problem it looks like I will need to remove my BUIS to get the EOTech on the upper and allow the magnifier to sit farther back so that the stock can be extended more. If there is no BUIS I may as well remove the A2 Front Sight Post so it is not in view when using the magnifier / eotech.....
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  #49  
Old 09-08-2009, 12:21 PM
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Before all the sticklers jump on you for using the Search Functionality of Calguns, I'll try to answer it quickly for you =)

Absolute means when you have your BUIS up and looking through your Eotech, the sites and dot appear in the CENTER of your Eotech.

When you mention you could "just barely use.." your BUIS to co-witness, I'm assuming you barely see your BUIS and your front iron through the Eotech. That is because it is appearing in the lower half (or lower 1/3) if your Eotech glass. Hence, the terms 1/3 co-witness...etc

Yes, the 516 needs to be lower for an absolute, but what you have is a lower 1/3 co-witness which is what I prefer (I have a 517, which has the 7mm rise like your 516).

The 512 model for example gives you the absolute because it is lower than ours.


Personally, I prefer the lower 1/3 because it gives me more "room" above the target.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Not to get too far off topic, but what does it mean to have an absolute co witness model? I seem to be able to just barley use my troy BUIS to co-witness the eotech but it does seem to work on the 516.

I think the 516 needs to be lower, or perhaps a riser for the Samson mount would allow me to secure the Vertical alignment pice further in the track and prevent the play that is causing the problem (Magnifiers objective tilts upwards and downwards due to play in the rail track.)

I really don't want to use a riser though... I probably would have been much better off getting the 4x eotech, since even if a riser fixes the problem it looks like I will need to remove my BUIS to get the EOTech on the upper and allow the magnifier to sit farther back so that the stock can be extended more. If there is no BUIS I may as well remove the A2 Front Sight Post so it is not in view when using the magnifier / eotech.....
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  #50  
Old 09-08-2009, 12:23 PM
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Thanks Superset. So the riser went on the Eotech, not the mag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
No, the original EOtech 3x with Samson FTS was made to align with raised height EOtechs like the 516, 517, 557, etc. It had an alignment problem with absolute cowitness models such as the 512, 552, XPS, etc. The riser had to go on those absolute cowitness models to make it align properly.
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  #51  
Old 09-08-2009, 12:35 PM
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OP, what did DM say? Have you called them to get the straight scoop?
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  #52  
Old 09-08-2009, 1:16 PM
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Cool, I talked to Randy at DM and they are going to ship me a Larue Mount to try. He said eotechs are tricky because they need angle due to being holographic and the sight floats. I guess aimpoints do not have this problem due to being non holographic. He said the Larue FTS Mounts have been discontinued because they were sued by Samson over the FTS design. So that is why DM and eotech have to use the Samson Mount, which does not have the ring to angle the magnifier.

I'll get some more pics and feedback once it arrives.

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-08-2009 at 1:18 PM..
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  #53  
Old 09-08-2009, 1:21 PM
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Nice service on their part. Let us know how the mount works out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Cool, I talked to Randy at DM and they are going to ship me a Larue Mount to try. He said eotechs are tricky because they need angle due to being holographic and the sight floats. I guess aimpoints do not have this problem due to being non holographic. He said the Larue FTS Mounts have been discontinued because they were sued by Samson over the FTS design. So that is why DM and eotech have to use the Samson Mount, which does not have the ring to angle the magnifier.

I'll get some more pics and feedback once it arrives.
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  #54  
Old 09-12-2009, 12:45 PM
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Any updates, bud?
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  #55  
Old 09-12-2009, 1:26 PM
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he told me the larue arrived yesterday and he had to pick it up. he hasn't been around online yet so i'm waiting too
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  #56  
Old 09-12-2009, 3:34 PM
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Just installed it and I have to say this is a GREAT setup. Stay tuned for pics (I will take them once I can get proper lighting and not have people looking at me funny in the front / back yard for having an AR :P) I snapped a quick few that I can post up later tonight.

Improvements.
1) No play in mount so the Magnifier will not rock around like the Samson did when it was in the fully extended Vertical position!
2) Virtualy no play in the base of the mount either!
3) Faster adjustment of angle for the Eotech which is where the Samson could not get centered after a couple hours of playing with the pads.
4) I am able to move the Eotech off the Omega rail and back onto the upper AND keep the BUIS
5) Better eye relief positioning.

I really have to recommend this setup so far but it will be a week or to before I go out and shoot with it, and the Optics are crystal clear (At least to my eyes!) Theres a decent amount of eye relief too. As long as the mag does not move when shooting (and I dunno why it would). This is definitely a keeper! Obviously DM has EXCELENT customer support!

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-12-2009 at 3:37 PM..
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  #57  
Old 09-12-2009, 4:05 PM
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Sounds great. I'm glad to hear they sorted you out. I'm still unclear of they offer both mounts as their website only shows the Samson. Please clarify if you can.
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  #58  
Old 09-12-2009, 6:54 PM
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Its not available on their website but I told them they should start selling them this way. The regular mount is only $35 so if you end up with the tactical mount you don't waste a ton of extra cash and can still order a Larue mount for now I guess. I'll bet if you called them they might sell it without the mount though?
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  #59  
Old 09-12-2009, 10:34 PM
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pics? lol. if they would sell it without the samson that is best as long as they charge alot less
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  #60  
Old 09-12-2009, 10:36 PM
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PS. Did they send you this LaRue EOTech mount?
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...ail.bok?no=270

I'm curious because that model only aligns with absolute cowitness models like the 512, 552, etc. You have the raised height model (516), which means it the magnifier should be lower than the sight.
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  #61  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
PS. Did they send you this LaRue EOTech mount?
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...ail.bok?no=270

I'm curious because that model only aligns with absolute cowitness models like the 512, 552, etc. You have the raised height model (516), which means it the magnifier should be lower than the sight.
Thats what I was expecting too! But it works! Eotechs are more about the angle than being the perfect height I guess. It didn't have a box because it was a showroom unit or something but I'm happy it looks new to me and works very well. I have not shot it yet but I'm not predicting any issues like the last one had.
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  #62  
Old 09-13-2009, 1:24 PM
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PICS lol
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  #63  
Old 09-14-2009, 1:33 AM
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Well in the crap lighting this is the only one that came out.

The optic does look like it is sitting low, bout for whatever reason it seems to work fine when I look through it I don't see the EOtech's sides Hopefully though this will not affect the accuracy of the red dot? I'm not sure that it could?

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  #64  
Old 09-14-2009, 5:30 AM
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you prefer it to flip to the left instead of the right?
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  #65  
Old 09-14-2009, 7:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zangetsu View Post
you prefer it to flip to the left instead of the right?
yes
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  #66  
Old 09-14-2009, 8:56 AM
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Glad that worked out! That's good customer service!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Just installed it and I have to say this is a GREAT setup. Stay tuned for pics (I will take them once I can get proper lighting and not have people looking at me funny in the front / back yard for having an AR :P) I snapped a quick few that I can post up later tonight.

Improvements.
1) No play in mount so the Magnifier will not rock around like the Samson did when it was in the fully extended Vertical position!
2) Virtualy no play in the base of the mount either!
3) Faster adjustment of angle for the Eotech which is where the Samson could not get centered after a couple hours of playing with the pads.
4) I am able to move the Eotech off the Omega rail and back onto the upper AND keep the BUIS
5) Better eye relief positioning.

I really have to recommend this setup so far but it will be a week or to before I go out and shoot with it, and the Optics are crystal clear (At least to my eyes!) Theres a decent amount of eye relief too. As long as the mag does not move when shooting (and I dunno why it would). This is definitely a keeper! Obviously DM has EXCELENT customer support!
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  #67  
Old 09-14-2009, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Well in the crap lighting this is the only one that came out.

The optic does look like it is sitting low, bout for whatever reason it seems to work fine when I look through it I don't see the EOtech's sides Hopefully though this will not affect the accuracy of the red dot? I'm not sure that it could?
Glad to hear that it's working out for you. I can't see it affecting your red dot POI, as it's only a magnifier. Even though it looks low, it could be that the magnifier angle + 4X magnification eclipses any obstructions from the EOTech. If you went with the 3X, my guess is that you might see some of the EOTech hood. Anyways, good luck with it!
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  #68  
Old 09-14-2009, 9:04 AM
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This was always a concern of mine too (hence all the previous questions to you). I finally ended up getting a magnifier (1st gen 3x, with Samson FTS) from a calgunner here who used it with his 512. He said it aligned perfectly so my guess was I would have to raise it to line up with my 517.

When I popped it in, I was delighted to see it was perfect and no mount was needed.

So there is truth with angle vs height?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
Glad to hear that it's working out for you. I can't see it affecting your red dot POI, as it's only a magnifier. Even though it looks low, it could be that the magnifier angle + 4X magnification eclipses any obstructions from the EOTech. If you went with the 3X, my guess is that you might see some of the EOTech hood. Anyways, good luck with it!
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  #69  
Old 09-14-2009, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donny619 View Post
This was always a concern of mine too (hence all the previous questions to you). I finally ended up getting a magnifier (1st gen 3x, with Samson FTS) from a calgunner here who used it with his 512. He said it aligned perfectly so my guess was I would have to raise it to line up with my 517.

When I popped it in, I was delighted to see it was perfect and no mount was needed.

So there is truth with angle vs height?
Its interesting to me that you were able to get the Samson to mount with the raised EOTech? you did not have to extend it out all the way on the vertical adjustment?

Looking at the magnifier I don't know how I'm not seenig hood, all I know is it seems to work fine Solved all issues with the Samson mount and is definitely more solid. The Samson FTS would have been solid enough if I could have fixed the vertical adjustment more, but the Larue does not have all the play in the base like the Samson either. I wanted to like the Samson mount, and I'm sure it will work with certain combos fine, but the Larue is a nice piece of work for sure, if it works with your application its quite a bit more solid.

From my experience I would have to say that angle is more important than height for eotechs, because as you can see I was able to get the Samson mount to hold the eotech up higher and more level, but I was not able to get enough angle to get the reticle centered. And again the eye relief is much better as it allowed me to move the entire sight back about an inch. I think I am going to like the setup and the quality of it now, I still want an ACOG someday just because the FOV is so much greater, and it has still better eye relief, but I think this setup is nearly as good for my use and would be superior in CQ combat (although I doubt it will ever see it), for only a fraction of the price.

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-14-2009 at 9:24 AM..
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  #70  
Old 09-14-2009, 9:40 AM
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The mount with my mag doesn't have a height adjustment. Just popped right in and worked =)

Maybe the one you have is not made for a 4x? Who knows. I'm sure you could post that up for a good sale too ... hehe

Glad things are working out. I love my Eotech setup and I'm sure you're loving it now too! When it all comes down to it, we just want things to work. Makes our day!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Its interesting to me that you were able to get the Samson to mount with the raised EOTech? you did not have to extend it out all the way on the vertical adjustment?

Looking at the magnifier I don't know how I'm not seenig hood, all I know is it seems to work fine Solved all issues with the Samson mount and is definitely more solid. The Samson FTS would have been solid enough if I could have fixed the vertical adjustment more, but the Larue does not have all the play in the base like the Samson either. I wanted to like the Samson mount, and I'm sure it will work with certain combos fine, but the Larue is a nice piece of work for sure, if it works with your application its quite a bit more solid.

From my experience I would have to say that angle is more important than height for eotechs, because as you can see I was able to get the Samson mount to hold the eotech up higher and more level, but I was not able to get enough angle to get the reticle centered. And again the eye relief is much better as it allowed me to move the entire sight back about an inch. I think I am going to like the setup and the quality of it now, I still want an ACOG someday just because the FOV is so much greater, and it has still better eye relief, but I think this setup is nearly as good for my use and would be superior in CQ combat (although I doubt it will ever see it), for only a fraction of the price.
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  #71  
Old 09-14-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donny619 View Post
The mount with my mag doesn't have a height adjustment. Just popped right in and worked =)

Maybe the one you have is not made for a 4x? Who knows. I'm sure you could post that up for a good sale too ... hehe

Glad things are working out. I love my Eotech setup and I'm sure you're loving it now too! When it all comes down to it, we just want things to work. Makes our day!
Gotcha, this one that comes with the DM is the universal mount, the base is the same (I think) but the mounting portion is different. Heck I even think they are even interchangable. I can't wait to go test this out though!

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-16-2009 at 8:20 AM..
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  #72  
Old 04-16-2010, 3:27 AM
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Hello Justintoxicated,
Do you know exactly which Larue mount you are using with the DM magnifier? Did you have any difficulty fitting the 32mm magnifier in the 30mm mount? I bought one and mounted it, the height seems to work fine, but I bought a Larue LT649-30T to push the magnifier back an inch to help with eye relief. The Larue mount will arrive in two weeks due to backorder.
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  #73  
Old 04-18-2010, 7:52 PM
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You ordered the wrong mount so look at his post again. He's using the LaRue EOTech magnifier flip mount, not the AimPoint magnifier (LT649-30T).
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  #74  
Old 04-19-2010, 8:51 PM
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Default Larue Mount for DM Optics 3x Magnifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
You ordered the wrong mount so look at his post again. He's using the LaRue EOTech magnifier flip mount, not the AimPoint magnifier (LT649-30T).
I think your talking about the LT-670EO, but the Larue website says that that mount is not compatible with the 516 along with any other EOtech with a built in riser. I have a 7mm riser on my 511 which would but it a the same height as the 516, 533 and the 557.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...ail.bok?no=270
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  #75  
Old 04-19-2010, 8:54 PM
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That's correct but that's due to the vertical height alignment, not the ring size of the magnifier. The LT649 will only fit AimPoint magnifier clones with a 30mm ring. The DMs are too large and only fit the LaRue EO mount. Somehow he got his EO mount to vertically align.. My guess is that he had to angle it up slightly.
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  #76  
Old 04-28-2010, 6:50 PM
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Went with the Burris 3x tripler on Larue mount.
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