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  #161  
Old 03-19-2010, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ArticleTheFourth View Post
Essentially, is the backpacking defined as 'going to / coming from' or is it defined as 'fishing or hunting'? I would say the former until you get close to your destination. How close would depend upon the length of the backpacking, but that's just my opinion.
I have wondered about this as well. Once I'm miles up into the wilderness, IMO I am on my "expedition", not traveling to/from it. But this is just opinion, and opinions vary. My current MO is to simply UOC (with loaded mags on weak side) at all times just to keep things simple for myself.
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  #162  
Old 03-20-2010, 12:23 AM
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MudCamper, I agree with you; thanks for all the information.

I see we are in the same neck of the woods. I'm on the west side heading out towards Bodega.
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  #163  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:29 AM
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I see we are in the same neck of the woods. I'm on the west side heading out towards Bodega.
Small world. I grew up on Furlong Rd. Live south of town now.
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  #164  
Old 03-22-2010, 2:44 PM
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OK so I call the Angeles National forest station and ask about the rules regarding open carry of a psitol while hiking in the Angeles national forest. The officer said that by law I could carry, but that it would scare people into calling 911 then they would have to come out and basicly put me on the ground at gun point and investigate what I'm up to. I was told to simply hide it or keep it out of sight so that people wont get scared. I then asked if this is a CCW violation, in which I was told yes...but that they would understand and its no big deal.....why does this sound like a load of BS? So I'm being told that I can legaly do something ,but if I do I'll be treated as a criminal and to illegaly carry my pistol so i don't upset anybody. Am I missing something?
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  #165  
Old 03-23-2010, 8:11 AM
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OK so I call the Angeles National forest station and ask about the rules regarding open carry of a psitol while hiking in the Angeles national forest. The officer said that by law I could carry, but that it would scare people into calling 911 then they would have to come out and basicly put me on the ground at gun point and investigate what I'm up to. I was told to simply hide it or keep it out of sight so that people wont get scared. I then asked if this is a CCW violation, in which I was told yes...but that they would understand and its no big deal.....why does this sound like a load of BS? So I'm being told that I can legaly do something ,but if I do I'll be treated as a criminal and to illegaly carry my pistol so i don't upset anybody. Am I missing something?
So the Forest Service employees are not only telling you that they would illegally detain you but that you should break the law.

Don't listen to them. Do what is legal. Better yet, ask them again and record the conversation.
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  #166  
Old 03-30-2010, 7:41 PM
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So, after reading this thread, if I go to the Pinnacles National Monument Park (national Park), I can take a firearm with me to my designated campsite, but I cannot take it with me on a hike (California law). I can have it in my car or in my tent, but I cannot carry it concealed in a backpack.
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  #167  
Old 03-30-2010, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mls343 View Post
So, after reading this thread, if I go to the Pinnacles National Monument Park (national Park), I can take a firearm with me to my designated campsite, but I cannot take it with me on a hike (California law). I can have it in my car or in my tent, but I cannot carry it concealed in a backpack.
The campground on the east side is a private facility. You may want to check with them before taking your guns there, though I don't expect they would mind if you brought some slugs to take out a few wild pigs.
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  #168  
Old 03-31-2010, 7:55 AM
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Wouldn't mind doing it for them! Regarding the regular campsite, we are good to go with my understanding?
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  #169  
Old 03-31-2010, 8:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mls343 View Post
So, after reading this thread, if I go to the Pinnacles National Monument Park (national Park), I can take a firearm with me to my designated campsite, but I cannot take it with me on a hike (California law). I can have it in my car or in my tent, but I cannot carry it concealed in a backpack.
You can carry loaded in your campsite. However, if it is private as others have stated, then they could conceivably have a no-firearms rule, in which case they could ask you to leave or "refuse service" and have trespass law on their side as a means of enforcement.

You can take your firearm with you on a hike. You just can't have it loaded, but you can have loaded magazines handy. And of course you can't conceal it (unless you have it in a locked container or happen to qualify for the 12027 fishing exemption).
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  #170  
Old 03-31-2010, 9:35 AM
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Cool, thanks Mudcamper!
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  #171  
Old 04-02-2010, 3:55 PM
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Why is this so complicated? I will be backpacking up near Markleeville this summer on some land that borders PG&E land and wilderness.
I have a fishing license and hunting license and want to carry in the event I see some coyotes. Can I carry concealed/loaded or not?
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  #172  
Old 04-05-2010, 5:14 PM
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Great thread Mudcamper! Thank you very much for all the info.
Now every time i go hiking in the Angeles NF I carry concealed, I have my hunting license, copper 9mm ammo, and I'm hunting coyote.
Hex
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  #173  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:48 AM
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I'm really not trying to insult anyone - but how many of you California residents spent as much time writing a letter/email to your congresscritter as you spent on this thread?

A few dozen letters promising to help remove legislators from office when they vote against the welfare of the people will do more than preaching to the choir here.
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  #174  
Old 04-06-2010, 12:54 PM
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I'm really not trying to insult anyone - but how many of you California residents spent as much time writing a letter/email to your congresscritter as you spent on this thread?

A few dozen letters promising to help remove legislators from office when they vote against the welfare of the people will do more than preaching to the choir here.
Groats, you must not be from California. The sad reality is the opposite of what you state. Our legislators get elected by promising to pass more unconstitutional gun-control laws.

I have given up on my legislature. They are all idiots. No matter how many letters, emails, faxes, and phone calls we make, they continue to pass asinine laws. Now I give money to CGF to fight in the courts. That is the arena where we will win. And we will win. But spinning our tires trying to sway the legislature is not worth the wasted effort.

And the purpose of this thread is to help figure out how to obey the law. We may not like it, but it is the current reality that we must deal with. Not educating oneself is unwise IMO.
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  #175  
Old 04-06-2010, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Groats, you must not be from California. The sad reality is the opposite of what you state. Our legislators get elected by promising to pass more unconstitutional gun-control laws.

I have given up on my legislature. They are all idiots. No matter how many letters, emails, faxes, and phone calls we make, they continue to pass asinine laws. Now I give money to CGF to fight in the courts. That is the arena where we will win. And we will win. But spinning our tires trying to sway the legislature is not worth the wasted effort.

And the purpose of this thread is to help figure out how to obey the law. We may not like it, but it is the current reality that we must deal with. Not educating oneself is unwise IMO.
I have written to my 'Legis-critters' many times on gun and other related legislation, without success. I too have given up writing to them, but instead give funds and assistance CGF, CRPA and NRA to fight the battles in court.

And, thanks MudCamper for helping us understand our asinine state laws in regards to carrying in the forest, hunting, fishing or just backpacking.
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  #176  
Old 04-07-2010, 12:53 PM
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Here's a thought. Since ammunition is defined as a projectile (right?),
holster-carrying a handgun that is loaded with BLANKS should be legal? This way, at least you can try to scare away the animals while on the trail?
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  #177  
Old 04-08-2010, 7:47 AM
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So in essence you have to be a Gun Law Attorney to read, remember and understand all the BS laws for every inch of the state you may or may not be in with a gun.

If you ask me its just a way to trip a gun owner up so they lose their gun and their freedom.
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  #178  
Old 04-17-2010, 9:29 PM
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Too many gun rules in California
Only wish gangsters and criminal follow this rules
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  #179  
Old 04-25-2010, 4:44 PM
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We used to live in Sonoma County, and moved to Nevada because things were changing there, not for the better in our opinion. Anyway we still love to hike in remote areas of the Sierras, alone. Could we carry a handgun, open carry?
With all the dope growers, mountain lions, and crazys, we would feel much safer with some protection. Recall what happened in Point Reyes on the trails, 5 people murdered, rapes. Yosemite handyman murdered 4 women. ( I used to be a Park Ranger in Yosemite, and there is a lot of crime there) Santa Cruz mountains-Kemper.
Anyway, rather be safe than sorry.
Thanks for any feedback.
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  #180  
Old 05-10-2010, 8:53 PM
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What about state forests? I know that Boggs Demonstration State Forest in Cobb allows the discharge of firearms per BLM standards, but it is a state forest managed by the California Department of Forestry and Fire protection. I'd be curious to hear about that.
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  #181  
Old 05-10-2010, 8:54 PM
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We used to live in Sonoma County, and moved to Nevada because things were changing there, not for the better in our opinion. Anyway we still love to hike in remote areas of the Sierras, alone. Could we carry a handgun, open carry?
With all the dope growers, mountain lions, and crazys, we would feel much safer with some protection. Recall what happened in Point Reyes on the trails, 5 people murdered, rapes. Yosemite handyman murdered 4 women. ( I used to be a Park Ranger in Yosemite, and there is a lot of crime there) Santa Cruz mountains-Kemper.
Anyway, rather be safe than sorry.
Thanks for any feedback.
I agree man. Sonoma County is going down the tube.
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  #182  
Old 06-10-2010, 6:41 AM
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Question. CA law overrides national law. So does this mean that the unloaded requirements are that of CA law, or of NF law?

Also, would a sidearm be considered your primary weapon for hunting? Or does that not matter in this situation? If you're carrying 3-4 firearms, do they all have to be unloaded when coming into a prohibited area? Or only the longarms that are being used for hunting?
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  #183  
Old 06-11-2010, 1:53 PM
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Mud Camper, thank you!
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  #184  
Old 06-23-2010, 11:43 PM
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Sent this to Lake Tahoe Basin Unit (National Forest)
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I'm curious about carrying a holstered firearm while in the Lake Tahoe Basin Area. I will NOT be hunting or target shooting but would like to carry a holstered sidearm for protection. Am I legally able to do this? I have heard MANY different opinions on this and each time I have called your office I have received a different answer. I would like to be following the law but am confused. What constitutes loaded?. Can you clarify which is applicable on National Forest land? What about on marked trails with NO vehicle traffic? May I carry (either loaded or unloaded) there? I would like to be able to carry my firearm but also want to be in full compliance with local, state, and federal laws. I appreciate your help on this issue. Thanks!

(me)
This was the response I got which I have printed out and carry with me while hiking up there

Quote:
When on National forest lands you may carry a loaded firearm, meaning a 'round is in the chamber'. As far as the lands under ownership by the States, Counties and the Cities of the Lake Tahoe basin , you will need to contact them directly for the rules and regulations.

Happy snow-covered trails!!!!!! Laurel
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  #185  
Old 07-01-2010, 3:20 PM
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So.... I've read this whole thread. I live in NV (so no such restrictions), but am going camping up in Sequoia NP next week. I see that I can UOC (a foreign concept, but whatever). However, what isn't clear to me is where I can carry the loaded magazine(s). In my pocket? Or do they have to be tucked in my belt? I don't have a belt carrier, but I could put them behind my belt. And do I need to (or should I) have an empty mag in the 1911?

I'm not particularly trying to make a statement, I just prefer to have a weapon on hand for the unexpected.

I could ask the rangers when I get there, I guess.

Thanks in advance.
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  #186  
Old 07-01-2010, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kmassner View Post
So.... I've read this whole thread. I live in NV (so no such restrictions), but am going camping up in Sequoia NP next week. I see that I can UOC (a foreign concept, but whatever). However, what isn't clear to me is where I can carry the loaded magazine(s). In my pocket? Or do they have to be tucked in my belt? I don't have a belt carrier, but I could put them behind my belt. And do I need to (or should I) have an empty mag in the 1911?

I'm not particularly trying to make a statement, I just prefer to have a weapon on hand for the unexpected.

I could ask the rangers when I get there, I guess.

Thanks in advance.
For UOC you can have the magazines anywhere that doesn't make the firearm "ready to fire", meaning not inserted into the magwell or attached to the firearm. So, you can have them in your pocket, under your belt, or you could pickup a cheap mag holder for your belt which is my recommendation.

I wouldn't keep an unloaded mag in the firearm unless you're trying to give the appearance of loaded, which may be an intent if you're carrying to ward of unwanted persons. Keeping the magwell empty allows for a quicker loading time, and keeps the magwell free of any possible jams or obstructions that could be caused by trying to drop the empty mag and load the full one in a time of high stress.
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  #187  
Old 07-02-2010, 7:44 AM
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Originally Posted by locosway View Post
For UOC you can have the magazines anywhere that doesn't make the firearm "ready to fire", meaning not inserted into the magwell or attached to the firearm. So, you can have them in your pocket, under your belt, or you could pickup a cheap mag holder for your belt which is my recommendation.

I wouldn't keep an unloaded mag in the firearm unless you're trying to give the appearance of loaded, which may be an intent if you're carrying to ward of unwanted persons. Keeping the magwell empty allows for a quicker loading time, and keeps the magwell free of any possible jams or obstructions that could be caused by trying to drop the empty mag and load the full one in a time of high stress.
Magazine is an essential part of the firearm and therefore same concealment rules apply - you cannot put magazine into your pocket while UOC, you need to keep it visible (People v. Hale 1974)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...73&postcount=9

As for keeping empty mag in the well - it reduces your loading time, but keeps some dirt out of gun too. So you decide if you want to plug that hole or not. I guess it would depend on where you carry.
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  #188  
Old 07-20-2010, 3:23 PM
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Does this apply equally for shotguns? I'm going on a four day hike through Sequoia National Park and I'm bringing my Mossberg Pump action with slugs just in case of bears. Can I LOC the shotgun? It will be affixed to my backpack without a chambered shell. Thanks for the input.
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  #189  
Old 07-20-2010, 4:15 PM
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If believe there are no firearms allowed in National Parks. Someone please correct me if I am wrong...
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  #190  
Old 07-20-2010, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lead-Thrower View Post
If believe there are no firearms allowed in National Parks. Someone please correct me if I am wrong...
Congress changed the law, and the NPS has to comply with it....I suggest reading this thread....
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  #191  
Old 07-27-2010, 9:01 AM
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Does this apply equally for shotguns? I'm going on a four day hike through Sequoia National Park and I'm bringing my Mossberg Pump action with slugs just in case of bears. Can I LOC the shotgun? It will be affixed to my backpack without a chambered shell. Thanks for the input.
Since the Parks ban shooting, this triggers the CA PC 12031 "prohibited area" language, which therefore bans loading (except in emergencies or in your campsite).

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If believe there are no firearms allowed in National Parks. Someone please correct me if I am wrong...
That is not correct. As GuyW said, the law changed. Read the first 2 posts in the thread and follow the links for more details.
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  #192  
Old 08-13-2010, 1:51 PM
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I have open carried my Glock on National Forest and BLM land before without any issues. Since I was near campsites and busy trails, I felt more comfortable UOC the entire time, instead of loading in non-prohibited areas.

I'm heading to Lassen Volcanic National Park in a few weeks and plan to UOC there. I have read through most of this thread including the CA penal code and it seems like pistol UOC, magazines openly carried, no carry in buildings(except crapper, unless otherwise posted), no carry where 'carry is prohibited' signs exist, no loading and no discharge.

My question: what is the risk of being hassled/arrested/weapon confiscated by carrying in a National Park? I never had any issues in the NF/BLM, any of the many times I have been...even had a cool DFG guy complimenting my rifle when we were shooting on BLM.

My pistol was legally purchased and is registered to me. I am not barred from owning of possessing. I am clean cut and respectful. No visible tattooing.

Last edited by 17+1; 08-13-2010 at 1:55 PM..
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  #193  
Old 08-13-2010, 3:09 PM
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Its probably been answered before in this thread and I apologize, but I have only read the first 2 pages.

Under what circumstances is it LEGAL to load/discharge a firearm within a national/state park? I want assume only under self defense instances (ex. bear/wolf/cougar/mountain lion, or another animal capable of killing you is attacking) but I want to make sure.
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  #194  
Old 08-13-2010, 9:11 PM
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Its probably been answered before in this thread and I apologize, but I have only read the first 2 pages.

Under what circumstances is it LEGAL to load/discharge a firearm within a national/state park? I want assume only under self defense instances (ex. bear/wolf/cougar/mountain lion, or another animal capable of killing you is attacking) but I want to make sure.
I don't know if it's legal to load then but if it's you or the bear.
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  #195  
Old 08-15-2010, 3:14 PM
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My question: what is the risk of being hassled/arrested/weapon confiscated by carrying in a National Park?
Well from what I can tell the NP LE seem to have been brought up to date on both the new federal change, and even California PC including 12031(e). So then I guess it depends on what your definition of "hassle" is, combined with what a particular LEO's understanding of how far he can go with an (e) check. It's really uncharted territory in most areas right now. However, IMO you won't have the weapon confiscated nor be arrested.

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Originally Posted by Nick1236 View Post
Under what circumstances is it LEGAL to load/discharge a firearm within a national/state park? I want assume only under self defense instances (ex. bear/wolf/cougar/mountain lion, or another animal capable of killing you is attacking) but I want to make sure.
Well in State Parks, it's never legal to possess an unlocked or operable firearm, so technically, you'd violate the Park code when you otherwise legally defended yourself.

As for National Parks, it's basically "prohibited area" per CA PC 12031, meaning, you can load in emergencies. As for when it is legal to discharge and use lethal force, well, it's the same as the rest of the state. It's complicated, but basically if you or any innocent is under imminent thread of great bodily injury or death.
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  #196  
Old 08-16-2010, 7:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Well from what I can tell the NP LE seem to have been brought up to date on both the new federal change, and even California PC including 12031(e). So then I guess it depends on what your definition of "hassle" is, combined with what a particular LEO's understanding of how far he can go with an (e) check. It's really uncharted territory in most areas right now. However, IMO you won't have the weapon confiscated nor be arrested.
Thanks for the info!

I suspect most people won't notice, like it was in the Shasta Trinity NF...if they do, I understand what LEOs are and are not legally allowed to do. I will most likely be covering the serial numbers with small pieces of tape as, during their inspection of the mag and chamber, they are allowed to 'observe' the serial numbers. I will also have the open carry pamphlet outlining the laws of carrying, although I will not have my license or HSC on me, as they are not required for open carry.
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Old 08-16-2010, 2:20 PM
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I had a question that I'm not quite sure if it was already answered.

I frequently camp in the Sierra National Forest in a small camping area.
There is a sign on the info board that says 'no firearms' (or firearms prohibited).
(can they prohibit firearms, or just prohibit shooting?)

If firearms cannot be prohibited, only shooting, I should be able to UOC everywhere in the area correct? (no schools, or other restricted areas for MILES)
Once I'm 150 yards away from all the campsites, LOC will be ok correct?


"*2 - Loaded Open Carry is legal in areas where shooting is not prohibited, and in one's campsite (12031 et al)
*2 - Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site, or on/across a road or body of water"

So since shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of roads, LOC is prohibited within 150 of roads?



Thanks!

Last edited by exklusve; 08-16-2010 at 2:23 PM..
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  #198  
Old 08-17-2010, 7:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exklusve View Post
I frequently camp in the Sierra National Forest in a small camping area.There is a sign on the info board that says 'no firearms' (or firearms prohibited). (can they prohibit firearms, or just prohibit shooting?)
They do not have the authority to ban firearms. Do you know what local ranger district this is? I would like to call them. There is still a code (36 CFR 261.57) that allows them to restrict possession in Wilderness Areas, but given Heller I doubt this would be legal. I've also never heard of any Forest actually ordering this. They do sometimes prohibit shooting, which they do have the authority per another code (36 CFR 261.58) to do. Is this in a Wilderness Area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exklusve View Post
If firearms cannot be prohibited, only shooting, I should be able to UOC everywhere in the area correct? (no schools, or other restricted areas for MILES)
Once I'm 150 yards away from all the campsites, LOC will be ok correct?
Correct. Plus you can also LOC in your own campsite, per the 12031 "temporary residence or campsite" exemption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exklusve View Post
So since shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of roads, LOC is prohibited within 150 of roads?
Not within 150 yards of roads. It's on or across roads, and within 150 yards of buildings, developed areas, etc. So you can LOC right off the road.
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  #199  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:16 AM
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I'll see if i can find a picture of the info board, to make sure if it says 'no shooting' or 'no guns'.

The local ranger is the Bass Lake Ranger District office in North Fork.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:48 AM
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Last question:

What constitutes open carry of magazines? My belt holster may be 'iffy'...

I have a dual mag belt holster for the magazines but there is a velcrow flip top that causes the magazine to be completely covered. Pull up on the cover and the baseplates and half an inch or so of mag body is visible, but not so when it is closed.

I was thinking it may be wise to safety pin the top open so there is no question...

Thanks for any info you can provide!
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