Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Ladies Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 03-15-2010, 7:40 PM
diginit's Avatar
diginit diginit is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Santa Clara,Ca
Posts: 3,344
iTrader: 77 / 100%
Default

I hate it when guys think girls are weak and can't handle a large caliber. My X was a black belt and one tough lady. And still, a lady she was. Even though she could kick most men's arses. These guys need to get a clue.
Most women have learned to defend themselves. Their not stupid...
It never hurts to look after them anyways...Just don't belittle them because of their sex. Waaaay Oldschool.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 03-16-2010, 9:17 AM
CHS's Avatar
CHS CHS is offline
Moderator Emeritus
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Posts: 11,329
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
I hate it when guys think girls are weak and can't handle a large caliber. My X was a black belt and one tough lady. And still, a lady she was. Even though she could kick most men's arses. These guys need to get a clue.
Most women have learned to defend themselves. Their not stupid...
It never hurts to look after them anyways...Just don't belittle them because of their sex. Waaaay Oldschool.
I have met many women that hated shooting based SOLELY on the fact that some man in their life introduced them to shooting for the FIRST time by putting the biggest scariest gun in their hands. Turned them off to shooting for the rest of their lives.

EVERYONE, not just women, should start with a .22. When they are READY, they'll ask for something bigger.
__________________
Please read the Calguns Wiki
Quote:
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 03-16-2010, 1:54 PM
tacticalcity's Avatar
tacticalcity tacticalcity is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rancho Cordova, California
Posts: 8,797
iTrader: 90 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmchs View Post
I have met many women that hated shooting based SOLELY on the fact that some man in their life introduced them to shooting for the FIRST time by putting the biggest scariest gun in their hands. Turned them off to shooting for the rest of their lives.

EVERYONE, not just women, should start with a .22. When they are READY, they'll ask for something bigger.
Pretty sure you and I have had this conversation before. Seems neither of us is a convert.

While I agree in principle that sticking a massive boom stick into a 98lbs persons hand and standing back and watching the show is a bad idea, I'd say a 9mm hadgun (or .223 if learning to shoot a rifle) is a better starting point for adults male or female than a 22lr. Very little recoil and bang - and it actually has a practical use beyond shooting targets.

While the .22 is next to nothing recoil and noise wise, and not intimidating at all, it is also next to nothing when it comes to usefulness in self defense. I’ve seen in real life, just how useless the 22lr can be when it comes to self defense.

A former instructor of mine, a police officer, has a very cool dot and vertical line scar on his forehead. He was shot from about five plus feet away right in the center of his forehead with a 22lr. He then proceeded to charge the bad guy, subdue and cuff him, and toss him the back of the car. Ten minutes or so later when back up arrived they asked why he was bleeding. He did not even know he had been shot. The round did not penetrate bone. Once it hit skull it changed direction and went straight up into his hair line and out the back of his scalp and on its way. The flash and the bang sent him into shock, and thanks to the adrenaline he did not know he had been hit. He was not in real pain until the following day. So when it comes to the ineffectiveness of the 22lr, that guy is living proof.

Now imagine that scenerio in reverse. Some young woman learns to shoot because she has a stalker, then that stalker breaks into her apartment in the middle of the night. She graps her semi-auto pistol, aims and fires a perfect controlled pair into the chest of her attacker - only he keeps coming and takes the gun from her and things only get worse from there.

If those 22lr rounds hit bone at just the right amount of thickness, they are not going to penatrate. Even if they penetrate, there is not enough damage done to stop him in his tracks. A mortal wound might not even slow him down. He could killer, then die an hour or two or even a day or two later. While the 9mm is not a 100% guarenteed solution the odds are strongly in its favor, and the 22lr almost guarentees a failure to stop. Unless she hits him square in the eye, which is tough shot when under stress, he will have the physical ability to keep on coming.

Since 22lr is useless for self defense, as illustrated above, and since most women want to learn to shoot specifically for self defense (or at least that is what they keep telling me) I start them off with what I believe they will most likely want to carry.

I do take recoil and noise into account. Both are very manageable on a 9mm. And there are there are very few failures to stop with a 9mm comparatively speaking. It also helps that I actually own a 9mm handgun, and do not own anything smaller (not because I am a macho jerk but because I wouldn't trust anything smaller to do the trick) so I don’t need to rent anything for them if I start them at a 9mm.

I am a strong believer in shooting what you will actually carry/use in self defense, and only what you will actually carry/use in self defense. Anybody over say 10 should be shooting something more power than a 22lr.

As for the argument about getting trigger control and sight picture and all that jazz down with a 22lr and then moving onto a higher caliber, that is what dry practice is for. Every minute of dry practice (practicing with getting the basics down with an unloaded gun) is like 20 minutes of live fire as far as usefulness at mastering the basics. Live fire adds the element of recoil and noise, but dry fire is where the core work gets done. Without a boat load of dry fire, you’ll never get proficient. The added benefit is that dry fire is free, since you are not shooting ammo.

My main fear with your suggestion is that time and time again I've seen people never advance beyond a 22lr, and walk around thinking they are safe. My mom's boyfriend is perfect example. No matter what I tell him, he thinks is 22lr will be enough to do the trick if he is attacked because, and I quote "it's what the mafia used for executions". I try and tell him, thats when they would sneak up behind a guy, take perfect aim, and hit him where penetration was guarenteed. That is something a bad guy is not going to let you do. It is very different usage than self defense. Yet that myth has made the 22lr a favorite of would be macho men everywhere. Especially amongst my fellow Italian Americans.

All that said, I do understand your argument. It does have merit to it. I am just pointing that if their goal is to learn to shoot for self defense purposes, and not just to gain exposure to guns in general, then one could argue just as strongly that a 9mm is a better place to start.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 03-16-2010 at 2:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:16 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.