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  #121  
Old 12-09-2009, 9:36 AM
bakokid bakokid is offline
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keep a sled/clip in it, it holds no bullets thus making the homemade pistol legal, take it out when u get to ur destination.....as for reg for a homemade pistol im not real clear on.....and say "i do not consent to search."
more power to u for the home made stuff.
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  #122  
Old 12-09-2009, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bakokid View Post
keep a sled/clip in it, it holds no bullets thus making the homemade pistol legal, take it out when u get to ur destination.....as for reg for a homemade pistol im not real clear on.....and say "i do not consent to search."
more power to u for the home made stuff.
"Do not consent to search" doesn't work if he can see the gun case, or if you answer "Yes" to the question "Do you have any guns".
If you have a gun and he knows it, he is within his rights to perform an e-check to verify that it is unloaded and being transported legally.
He does not have the right (though will probably do it anyways) to run the serial number unless he has RS/PC that you have or intend to commit a crime.

That said, it's still a pretty loose definition of "commit a crime", IE, the gun is locked in your trunk, but the rear seats fold down without a key and the gun is not in it's own locked container. While he may let you slide with a warning that the trunk is not adequate with the folding rear seat if you are cool and cooperative, he does have you on "committed a crime" and it would give him the legal authority to run the serial numbers.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #123  
Old 12-10-2009, 8:41 AM
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good point but i see searching the vehicle and doing an "e-check" as two different things.
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  #124  
Old 12-16-2009, 3:24 PM
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If you deny a LEO permission to search your car can that be then used as probable cause to search it? I mean they could say that any person with nothing to hide would have no reason to deny the search. Only people involved in illegal activities would deny the search. My dad was pulled over a while back for a burned out tail light and he denied the search. They then proceeded to remove him from the car and search it for 2 hours finding nothing. He filed a report but nothing came from it.
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  #125  
Old 12-16-2009, 3:35 PM
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My dad was pulled over a while back for a burned out tail light and he denied the search. They then proceeded to remove him from the car and search it for 2 hours finding nothing. He filed a report but nothing came from it.
This is a common sad state of affairs in reality. While LE often gets certain criminals this way, they also burn normal legal people all the time with nonsense like that of trumped up PC to search. Then comes the "you had nothing to worry about then, you weren't doing anything illegal", or the classic "you shouldn't be around here", but your civil liberties bruised up a bit, and an ever slowly increasing police powers over it.

It will always be the classic challenge, LE doing a frustrating job, citizens wanting to "crack" down at any cost, and the same citizens being handled badly by new tactics and bends of the law to get the job done.
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  #126  
Old 12-17-2009, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
If you deny a LEO permission to search your car can that be then used as probable cause to search it? I mean they could say that any person with nothing to hide would have no reason to deny the search. Only people involved in illegal activities would deny the search. My dad was pulled over a while back for a burned out tail light and he denied the search. They then proceeded to remove him from the car and search it for 2 hours finding nothing. He filed a report but nothing came from it.
That is against your 4th amendment rights, and your father should talk to a Lawyer.
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  #127  
Old 12-17-2009, 9:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
If you deny a LEO permission to search your car can that be then used as probable cause to search it? I mean they could say that any person with nothing to hide would have no reason to deny the search. Only people involved in illegal activities would deny the search. My dad was pulled over a while back for a burned out tail light and he denied the search. They then proceeded to remove him from the car and search it for 2 hours finding nothing. He filed a report but nothing came from it.
oh those poor officers their job must be so hard and stressful! (sarcasm)
thats what they sign up for and get paid well for. at the very least they should get a few years in prison for what they did. i cant watch the show Law and Order cause they constantly bash our rights cause it makes their job harder....and recently said people like glenn beck make people murder immigrants when they should be worried about a broken health care system....
dont believe someones bs when they try to sell out ur rights whether it be to fight terrorism, help LE, or save us from global warming. those are the potential cost of freedom and as such are our individual choice and not up for govt protection. protect yourself, feed yourself, buy yourown healthcare, and leave everyone else alone
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  #128  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mendo223 View Post
pbr basically summed up my suspicions. cops can do whatever they want. i dont understand why they can just "protect and serve" instead of harassing and invading peoples privacys, causing troubles and ruining peoples lives, just to fill their quotas. i never want to become a cop, they must have no souls.
They are human, and as humans will act according to the incentive system in which they function. It is as simple as they collect a paycheck in return for writing citations and arresting citizens. There is no solution to be found by appealing to ideals or principles, ie. "the police should protect and serve." Maybe they should, but reality is they won't because that is not the incentive. There may be a few principled LEOs, but they are the minority. Even many who think they are principled (as with all of us) really act according to incentives. The vast majority of people do not behave according to principles, rather their behavior is conditioned according to incentives. Therefore, on average, that is how groups of people will behave.

The only hope is to change the incentives from getting paid to arrest (an incentive structure which is more profitable when there is more crime, to getting paid to minimize arrests and crime. Privatization of security services and voluntary government (or DROs) is the only hope. Unfortunately, only a tiny minority have ever even heard of the libertarian free market concepts that could provide solutions, and the government schools statist indocrination camps do everything in their power to ensure that a child's mind never hears of any ideas that may hint at the possibility that we could solve our own problems with private institutions.

I suppose that an interim improvement may also be possible, without so far reaching a transformation as to voluntary government, by incrementally changing the legal structure so as to increase the degree to which the state must prove not just violation of the law, but criminal intent to violate the law, in such cases as frequently plague gun owners who are threatened with draconian punishments for innocuous errors in following the law.

Either improvement however seems unlikely, as it appears we are sliding inexorably toward totalitarianism, regardless of the protestations of both sides of the one party system. The left, in addition to being entirely incapable of comprehending markets, can't grasp that their every proposal to help simply increases the state's power. The right can't grasp that you simply can't retain "freedom" while at the same time expanding a global empire (increasing state power). Both sides are hopelessly easy to dupe into believing that "threats" are lurking around every corner. It is not incorrect that there are threats. But the fact is that almost the entirety of the "threats" are self-created. This will remain the case as it is in the state's interest to see it continue. We have no intention of defeating our "enemies," because the state largely created them. While they may be a threat to the safety of the people, they are for that very reason the health of the state. Again, people function only according to incentives.

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  #129  
Old 12-25-2009, 8:17 AM
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If you are stopped by police, you aren't required to converse with him. You need to hand over your license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance.

Wouldn't an appropriate answer to any "knock and talk" questions which is nothing more than an attempt to interview a subject "here is my license, registration and proof of insurance, officer. I don't believe we have anything to discuss" be sufficient?

I often drive around the country in an expensive RV. Sometimes the cops knock and talk. If you're foolish enough to willingly be engaged, it is your fault. I remember once I loaded up from my building I own there and ready to pull out of San Francisco but it was too late to drive so my wife and I decided to go to sleep there in a legal parking spot nearby with my then 5 week child in the vehicle. The cops came by for a knock and talk and asked me to invite them inside at about 2am in the morning. I laughed mightily and told them police or not, waking me up at 2am and asking to be invited inside wasn't polite, police or not and that I never invite police into my domicile or residence, which this motorcoach was at the time — and declined.

What could they do? Nothing. They left. I told them not to wake me up after 10pm ever again if they saw me parked around there, it wasn't appropriate and sent them packing. Never got visited by SFPD again, pulled out in the morning for my home in northern Nevada.

My father was a CHP officer for over 25 years so I'm familiar with cops. I don't hate or disrespect them, because of my familiarity with them i don't get intimidated by them but I'm also firm with them, too. I value all my rights and try to calmly and politely assert them when necessary and it has worked out for me for decades. I also do not hesitate to tell them I'm family when one tries to engage me, I assume that sometimes it could mean the difference between a hostile and neutral or hopefully positive encounter.

The only time I discuss guns with police in California is when I'm not carrying one!
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  #130  
Old 01-06-2010, 1:38 PM
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"You may not search my vehicle."

An option which is a more expansive denial while still being short and sweet is, "I do not consent to any searches or seizures."
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  #131  
Old 01-07-2010, 2:36 AM
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My experience with police has been simple.

Answer the questions. Be honest, Be direct and keep it short and sweet.
"yes sir", "no sir", "i believe I was going 55mph sir", etc...

In the example of the guy saying "i have nothing illegal in my car". Well - that's fine, but that's not what you were asked. You were asked if there's weapons in the vehicle. That's a simple yes or no question. His answer would have raised suspicion with me as well - because his answer didn't really answer the question.
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  #132  
Old 01-07-2010, 6:23 AM
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Yeah, thats why i roll desperado style, but with a soft electric guitar case instead of a hard case. It fools EVERYONE. i actually am a guitarist when people ask. (i pretend). if i knew how 2 post pics i would.
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  #133  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WarCriminal View Post
Yeah, thats why i roll desperado style, but with a soft electric guitar case instead of a hard case. It fools EVERYONE. i actually am a guitarist when people ask. (i pretend). if i knew how 2 post pics i would.
Or just slap a Fender or Gibson logo on the SKB/Pelican and you're set.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #134  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinixstar View Post
My experience with police has been simple.

Answer the questions. Be honest, Be direct and keep it short and sweet.
"yes sir", "no sir", "i believe I was going 55mph sir", etc...

In the example of the guy saying "i have nothing illegal in my car". Well - that's fine, but that's not what you were asked. You were asked if there's weapons in the vehicle. That's a simple yes or no question. His answer would have raised suspicion with me as well - because his answer didn't really answer the question.
Okay... and when the cop's "question" isn't a question at all?

I was walking home from the post office one evening, a cop rolled into the parking lot I was walking through and simply said "You look familiar".
He repeated this several times when I didn't answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #135  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:02 PM
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PC is easy enough for LEO's to get as they'll just keep you on site until the puppies with badges who eventually become canine cokeheads show up. They'll have no problem sniffing out ammo and/or the g.s.r. on the weapon itself.
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  #136  
Old 01-15-2010, 9:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendo223 View Post
pbr basically summed up my suspicions. cops can do whatever they want. i dont understand why they can just "protect and serve" instead of harassing and invading peoples privacys, causing troubles and ruining peoples lives, just to fill their quotas. i never want to become a cop, they must have no souls.
This one got to me.... To Protect and to serve? Who?
It has already been proven in the SC that an police officers job is to: "Protect the interests of the city they serve and to inforce the laws." A quote from the SC decision. They have NO legal obligation to protect you as a citizen. Remember this!
So much for our forefathers busting their a*ses and dying for the cause.
Kinda makes me sick....True, police are a necessary evil, But to protect and to serve...My A*s...
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  #137  
Old 02-18-2010, 1:30 AM
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great info..
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  #138  
Old 02-18-2010, 8:57 PM
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agreed.
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  #139  
Old 02-28-2010, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
This one got to me.... To Protect and to serve? Who?
[...]
Kinda makes me sick....True, police are a necessary evil, But to protect and to serve...My A*s...

To protect and serve the corporatist-statist plutocracy against the "little people". To provide the ultimate backstop - legitimized murder - for every law and regulation, whereby a cascading failure to obey ends up with the citizen on the receiving end of a mag dump.

For instance... Peon is given some bull**** ticket. "I say you turned on a red, your word against mine, that'll be $450." Peon doesn't pay the bull**** ticket. Ticket turns into a bench warrant. Peon is pulled over but doesn't wish to get arrested for bull****, "You know what, copper, go fsck yourself." Cop radios for the coroner and goes on a two week vacation.
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  #140  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:48 AM
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just bought a 10 rounder for travel...thanks for the thread; good stuff
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  #141  
Old 03-04-2010, 11:22 PM
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what happens if you do say "No" if a policemen ask if they can search your car. wouldn't that cause more trouble?
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  #142  
Old 03-05-2010, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth310 View Post
what happens if you do say "No" if a policemen ask if they can search your car. wouldn't that cause more trouble?
It depends on what lead up to the "no".
If you admitted to having guns, then he has the right to verify that they are being transported unloaded. He may or may not actually check... a couple of Calgunners have reported that they've been asked, said "Sure, it's locked up in the back", and the cop said nothing more about it.
This would also apply if the guns, or strong evidence of guns (shot up targets, ammo boxes, and a case) are in plain view.
Also, an NRA sticker has been ruled as NOT reasonable suspicion, and at least in my experience, cops appear to be aware of it, as I've been flying an NRA sticker for over 4 years and have never been pulled over.

But assuming that none of the above applies... you haven't admitted (or been asked) about having guns in the car, the courts have ruled that declining to consent to a search under your 5A rights does not justify RS/PC for a search.
However, do keep in mind that when you refuse to consent, his radar will go into high-gain looking for RS/PC, and you are unlikely to get a warning if the stop was for a traffic violation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #143  
Old 03-06-2010, 10:51 AM
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I understand and support a person's assertion of their rights.

People who own, transport and shoot OLL firearms do so legally, in my opinion.

So, if asked 'Do you have any firearms in your vehicle?', what's the down side to responding 'yes' if you're transporting them properly?

The point is, if we exclude possible risk and inconvenience from our interactions with police, we also fail to educate our police on the legal validity of OLLs.

As an OLL firearm owner, should you be ready, even if you're not willing, to talk to a cop (with a CalGuns flowchart and passages of relevant CA law), at least until such time as OLLs are no longer remarkable.

As an OLL firearm owner, you can assert your rights to deflect police attention from the contents of your vehicle, of course. But the day may come when you find yourself, despite your preference otherwise, discussing the contents of your gun case with an LEO, and I think you had better be prepared to discuss this matter in a confident, practiced and legally sound manner.

OLL owners should have the reference material in mind (and in print!) to take- and pass- this 'final exam' when it is given.
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  #144  
Old 03-06-2010, 1:34 PM
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The point is, if we exclude possible risk and inconvenience from our interactions with police, we also fail to educate our police on the legal validity of OLLs.
A cop that's ready to take you in for your OLL is not going to be open to an education from you.
Put yourself in his place, but change the situation, maybe to something drug related.
Who are you going to believe... your training, or what your suspect tells you is legal.
Quote:
As an OLL firearm owner, should you be ready, even if you're not willing, to talk to a cop (with a CalGuns flowchart and passages of relevant CA law), at least until such time as OLLs are no longer remarkable.
The flowchart may be helpful, maybe not.
I was introduced to it and lurked on the forum for about 6 months before I joined CGN, and my first reaction when my friend showed me the link was "Ya, right... I can own an assault rifle with one small change to the mag release just because some yahoos on the internet claim that it's legal? I don't think so!"

Now today... combining the flowchart with the SacPD and OCSD training bulletins, you've got a better leg to stand on.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #145  
Old 03-06-2010, 1:47 PM
Francis Marion Francis Marion is offline
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Agreed, nobody wants to live in a police state, but the prospect of choosing to talk to a cop about your OLL is a situation which can happen, despite assertions of rights and any preventive measures taken. OLL owners may want to practice for that time to avoid a needless arrest, to educate the police, and end the matter uneventfully.

If you clam up, you increase the cop's index of suspicion and maybe therefore your probability of arrest. Cop sees an 'illegal' rifle, the owner won't explain away the illegality, so unsurprisingly the cop makes an arrest. Yes, you're asserting your rights the whole time, but choosing to clarify the cop's mistaken understanding might have prevented the whole incident. You can go about your business without the hassle and expense of arrest and defense. I'd rather buy cases of ammo than buy time inside and release from the justice system for the sake of proving a point. Think it out before hand what you're going to do and why, and prepare.
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  #146  
Old 03-06-2010, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by blackrazor View Post
Law enforcement officers, when on duty, have only one purpose, and that is arrest and cite citizens. They have no other function in our society.
that seems awful general. As someone who was 1 step away from being a CHP officer, the way you see officers is as a bad guy. they are there to help, i have several times gotten advice, etc from them, there job is to protect people first and help people second.
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  #147  
Old 03-29-2010, 12:14 AM
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This is a great thread. I started getting into the OLL AR's and guns in general a couple of years back, and most of my time having firearms and transporting them from place to place has been spent in Arizona. In AZ, I got used to having a loaded firearm next to me in a holster in my vehicle most of the time and open carrying wherever and such.

Now that I am living back in CA, I worry about driving anywhere with a firearm and espescially my Colt LE6940 (has a raddlock now). I guess I don't feel confident that I know the laws well enough, espescially
since laws pertaining to firearms even vary from county to county in CA.

So let me see if I have the basics down.... 1. I can drive with my rifle (even oll) in the back of my tahoe in rifle case 2. Handgun must be in a locked case in back 3. Firearms must be unloaded

I might be making a range trip soon. Excellent point about keeping gun cases out of view as well as all other firearms related stuff. Am I missing something?? Thanks guys
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  #148  
Old 03-31-2010, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef
When I'm pulled over in my honda minivan, wife and kids inside, and upon handing my license and registration to the cop, and he quickly asks if i have any guns in the vehicle (and I do, legally stowed), how do I answer? Do I say "I don't want to answer that question" because he doesn't have PC to ask or pursue a search?

I know it's not something asked at a traffic stop, but if it is....what's safe protocol regardless of what firearm I'm carrying?

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Originally Posted by outersquare View Post
yes, someone please address this


I do not have anything illegal in my vehicle
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  #149  
Old 03-31-2010, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by frankiejoe577 View Post
I do not have anything illegal in my vehicle
Not smart.
While it is not consenting to a search, you don't know what one of the kids may have picked up, or what a passenger may have left in your car... or if you bought it used, what the previous owner may have left behind.

Simply politely refuse to answer the question.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #150  
Old 04-03-2010, 8:54 PM
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mgw12 mgw12 is offline
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A am so NEW to this it is crazy..I have been around firearms my whole life and was trained to have GREAT respect for them..BUT I have no clue of the abreviations that are used!??

What does "OLL" mean AND is there a special list to teach me these abreviations!? ...ask me something about mountain biking, rock crawlin, 4 wheelin, freshwater fishing or the bible! I might be able to help you out!!! heh-heh
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  #151  
Old 04-04-2010, 10:36 PM
Vladimir Vladimir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgw12 View Post
A am so NEW to this it is crazy..I have been around firearms my whole life and was trained to have GREAT respect for them..BUT I have no clue of the abreviations that are used!??

What does "OLL" mean AND is there a special list to teach me these abreviations!? ...ask me something about mountain biking, rock crawlin, 4 wheelin, freshwater fishing or the bible! I might be able to help you out!!! heh-heh
OLL stands for Off List Lower, lower receiver on an ar-15 thats considered the "Firearm" and goes through the backround check.
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  #152  
Old 05-13-2010, 9:19 AM
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advocatusdiaboli advocatusdiaboli is offline
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Quote:
Also, an NRA sticker has been ruled as NOT reasonable suspicion, and at least in my experience, cops appear to be aware of it, as I've been flying an NRA sticker for over 4 years and have never been pulled over.
Can you cite that case please? I am curious to know if it is controlling in California.
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Gone fishin' for now and soon gone from California.
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  #153  
Old 05-15-2010, 4:40 AM
rifle man rifle man is offline
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Unhappy nervous button

New to calguns. Have read the flowchart..but not sure i understand it. Bought my stag
2ht ar15 at a gunshow in coasta mesa about two years ago. It came equiped with a bullet button. I was told by the salesman that with the bb makes the rifle cal legal and
also that the rifle could now possess all the nasty,except highcap mags.Im still very nervous transporting it to the range. Has anyone out there heard any thing from cal DA
or DOJ on the legality of the bullet button?
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  #154  
Old 05-15-2010, 4:55 PM
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Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle man View Post
New to calguns. Have read the flowchart..but not sure i understand it. Bought my stag
2ht ar15 at a gunshow in coasta mesa about two years ago. It came equiped with a bullet button. I was told by the salesman that with the bb makes the rifle cal legal and
also that the rifle could now possess all the nasty,except highcap mags.Im still very nervous transporting it to the range. Has anyone out there heard any thing from cal DA
or DOJ on the legality of the bullet button?
DOJ is silent on the issue. The only official response from them is "It is up to the 55 individual California District Attorneys"

WRT to the various DAs, people have been arrested for legal AR's and AK's equipped with a maglock.
To date, there have been zero successful prosecutions, and most recent cases have resulted in the charges being dropped after a phone call from one of the Calguns attorneys.

Both Sacramento PD and Orange County Sheriff have issued training memos informing the field officers that the bullet button is indeed within the boundaries of the law.

I printed out color copies of these memos, along with the flowchart, and laminated them to keep with me.
I also made 20 copies of all of the above in B&W to hand to any officer (or civilian) who may have questions.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf OCBulletButton.pdf (2.79 MB, 302 views)
File Type: pdf Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf (216.4 KB, 221 views)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #155  
Old 05-16-2010, 12:04 AM
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thanks cokebottle. Very helpful information, made copies of the pdf. I will carry these in my rifle case from now on.
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  #156  
Old 05-28-2010, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robitrocks View Post
I can't belive no one's posted this yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
Just remember, "If your woman is mad at you, leave her at home."
Is this what that link was supposed to lead to?
"500 Internal Server Error
Sorry, something went wrong.

A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.

If you see them, show them this information: (approximately 400 random characters)"

I suppose that this post being 2 years old might have something to do with it, but that's a pretty funny error code.
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  #157  
Old 06-08-2010, 8:08 PM
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Last week I was driving home after a fishing trip and made a u turn at a 3 way intersection (no stop sign or signal lights). The officer behind me cut me off while I was making the u-turn. Two officers exit the vehicle and approach. The driver asks for license, reg and insurance. Before I can get them:

PO: Do you have any firearms in the car?
ME: I have nothing illegal in the vehicle.
PO: I asked if you have any firearms in the car.
ME: I do not have anything illegal in my vehicle.
PO: Step out of the car and put your hands behind your back.
ME: (Handcuffs applied)
PO: Do you think a legal gun wont kill someone?
PO: When I ask you if you have any firearms it's for my survival.
PO: Did you know you have committed a crime by not answering my question?
ME: What crime is that?
PO: Penal code 148, you should check it out.
ME: I will.
PO: Did you know its illegal to have a gun in your car?
ME: Really? How do people go to shooting ranges?
PO: So, are you getting back from the shooting range?
ME: No.
PO: Wait here.
ME: (stood for 10 minutes)
PO: So you said you were at the range today, right?
ME: No, I did not say that.
PO: (Takes my handcuffs off and gives me citation for illegal u-turn)
Cover PO: Did you ask to search his car?
PO: I figured he wouldn't let us.
PO: Will you let us take a look in your car?
ME: Not without a warrant.
Cover PO: (to me): Just wait, one of these days it'll be your turn
PO: I hope you don't leave your car parked here overnight.
ME: Have a good night officers.

It was definitely a very weird encounter. Did I handle this improperly?
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  #158  
Old 06-08-2010, 11:33 PM
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Matt C Matt C is offline
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Actually you did pretty well except here:

Quote:
PO: Did you know its illegal to have a gun in your car?
ME: Really? How do people go to shooting ranges?
PO: So, are you getting back from the shooting range?
He was baiting you and you took the bait rather than remain silent, then you gave him a reason to go fishing for probable cause. He could have easily searched and then said he thought you said you were at the range and were transporting weapons, even though that's not really what you said.

Every time you open your mouth you are risking the officer hearing or interpreting something you say as either a waiver of your rights, or as something incriminating. That is why it's best to remain silent if you are asked any questions, ESPECIALLY if you are already in handcuffs. Overall I think you did very well though, you did avoid a search, which could have caused you much more problems depending on what the officer thought about what was in your car.

By the way, PC 148 is resisting or obstructing, and exercising your right to remain silent cannot be prosecuted under that code. If you actually lied and said there were no weapons when there were weapons, then MAYBE he might have something.
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  #159  
Old 06-12-2010, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBait View Post
Last week I was driving home after a fishing trip and made a u turn at a 3 way intersection (no stop sign or signal lights). The officer behind me cut me off while I was making the u-turn. Two officers exit the vehicle and approach. The driver asks for license, reg and insurance. Before I can get them:

PO: Do you have any firearms in the car?
ME: I have nothing illegal in the vehicle.
PO: I asked if you have any firearms in the car.
ME: I do not have anything illegal in my vehicle.
PO: Step out of the car and put your hands behind your back.
ME: (Handcuffs applied)
PO: Do you think a legal gun wont kill someone?
PO: When I ask you if you have any firearms it's for my survival.
PO: Did you know you have committed a crime by not answering my question?
ME: What crime is that?
PO: Penal code 148, you should check it out.
ME: I will.
PO: Did you know its illegal to have a gun in your car?
ME: Really? How do people go to shooting ranges?
PO: So, are you getting back from the shooting range?
ME: No.
PO: Wait here.
ME: (stood for 10 minutes)
PO: So you said you were at the range today, right?
ME: No, I did not say that.
PO: (Takes my handcuffs off and gives me citation for illegal u-turn)
Cover PO: Did you ask to search his car?
PO: I figured he wouldn't let us.
PO: Will you let us take a look in your car?
ME: Not without a warrant.
Cover PO: (to me): Just wait, one of these days it'll be your turn
PO: I hope you don't leave your car parked here overnight.
ME: Have a good night officers.

It was definitely a very weird encounter. Did I handle this improperly?
although its been stated before, it should be noted that the assertion that the car is free from anything illegal is dangerous: with state laws being numerous and obscure, violating one is meant to be nigh impossible so as to facilitate easy search. also, if you are dealing with a particularly nasty LEO (which it certainly sounds like you were) then getting into an argument/pissing match is probably not the best idea for a number of reasons. I don't meant to be overly critical or say I would be able to restrain myself from ripping into the guy either, no here. all in all I would say bravo, way to keep your head in a tough spot
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  #160  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:17 PM
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diginit diginit is offline
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Quote:
Did you know it was illegal to have a gun in your car?
Why would ANY LEO say it is illegal to have a gun in your car when it isn't?. Even UOC is legal in a vehicle. Providing you are not within 1000ft of a K-12 school. LOC if in an area where shooting is not prohibited. Not to mention if in a locked case. This cop was either a complete jerk or totally ignorant of the law. Report this to his supervisor.
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