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  #1  
Old 01-02-2010, 4:35 PM
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Talking AR Pistol Build - Black on FDE (+ pics)

More or less, 1 month to build from the day I decided to pull the trigger to having it built up and ready to fire. So, that gives you an idea of timeline, and it could have maybe been done a week faster if it were not for the holidays and the fact I only custom build and so had to wait for parts to come.

Have 2 all black AR rifles, have been wanting to do some color in a build, Magpul FDE was my choice. I think it turned out great. As you can see, the CAA "tan" and the Magpul "FDE" are close, but not perfect. CAA tan is a bit lighter - but good enough for me. I got some ideas I borrowed from others here - what can you do as only so many configs you can come up with - and some of my own.

Here is a tip I never read, but came up with. On the CAA stock saddle, I wanted to keep the visual of the RRA pistol buffer tube as it is beautiful as it is milled out. But, the CAA would slide around it went attached (via color matched zip ties I found at Home Depot). So, I ended up using double sided foam insulation tape and put that inside the CAA and that, when zip tied, sticks to the RAA tube, takes up the space and keeps it firm in place. See the photo below.

PARTS LIST:

- Upper: VLTOR MUR 1A (FORWARD ASSIST), White OAK Armament 7.5 Stainless Steel Barrel 1/7, Troy Extreme 9" Battle Rail, VLTOR low-pro gasblock and pin, PK Pistol gas tube, NOVESKE KX3 Flaming Pig, NOVESKE Charging Handle
- RRA LAR-15 pistol lower
- RRA LPK
- RRA pistol buffer tube kit
- RRA 2 stage trigger
- LMT BCG full auto version
- BB + freelock button
- Primary Arms T-1 red dot clone + QR base
- Magpul pmag + ranger plate + skateboard tape - FDE
- detent mod set screw
- CAA Stock Saddle - tan
- Lasermax LMS-UNI Red Laser
- Never Quit Magwell Grip
- CAA UPG16 tan/blk grip
- Magpul MBUS set - FDE color
- SLAP sling plate
- YHM takedown pins
- Magpul BAD
- Phase 5 tactical winter trigger guard
- Magpul rail ladders - FDE
- KAC Hand Stop
- badger tactical latch
- crayon SAFE and FIRE color markings
- Battle Arms AMBIDEXTROUS SAFETY SELECTOR (not shown)

Just got the final piece today, so I have not yet fired it, so not yet zeroed it in. Hope to do next week as things settle down for me. I will repost back up to comment on the things like the Magpul BUIS system, the Primary Arms clone red dot, the Lasermax laser (which I can operate with 1 finger), the KAC hand stop (placement yet to work out), the Never Quit Magwell Grip (as it is new to me, but seemed like it might come in handy for such a short weapon at times so WTF??) and the CAA saddle.






To be honest, I am as excited by this build as any of my 3 builds so far. More in fact as I think, though not accurate over a long distance, it will be fun to shoot and certainly easier - at 25" and just 7 pounds - to wield around.

UPDATE: added Sig SBX brace (version 2) in FDE and swapped out the CAA cheek weld & pistol tube QD cover - which is for sale here now.



Yet another switch... the the Shockwave brace

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  #2  
Old 01-02-2010, 4:38 PM
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Wow looks like you grabbed a bunch of parts from the leftover bin and made yourself an AR Pistol Nice looking piece too

-Gio
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Old 01-02-2010, 4:42 PM
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not diggin the pistol grip though; but nice build though.
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Old 01-02-2010, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gio View Post
Wow looks like you grabbed a bunch of parts from the leftover bin and made yourself an AR Pistol Nice looking piece too

-Gio
thanks... I think

nope, each part was selected for a reason
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Old 01-02-2010, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sytfu_RR View Post
not diggin the pistol grip though; but nice build though.
was not ideal.. I 'wanted' all tan, but (1) not as easy to come by and (2) I got a great deal on the combo setup and since this gun was a color combo, I was cool with it.
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Old 01-02-2010, 4:50 PM
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Nice build!
Great tip on the CAA!
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Old 01-02-2010, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by glock_this View Post
thanks... I think

nope, each part was selected for a reason
I have several firends that often find a bunch of parts in their closet or wherever they store their AR parts and will simply build another AR for the heck of it. I was not bashing you for it, just me being funny.

-Gio
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Old 01-02-2010, 5:00 PM
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Nice build!
Great tip on the CAA!
yeah thanks.. it helped for stability and to take up space and make pressure on the buffer tube

another thing I noticed is for the KAC hand stop.. if you try to run Magpul rail ladders flush up to it like I did, you can't fit the QR swivel sling mount into the hole.
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2010, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gio View Post
I have several firends that often find a bunch of parts in their closet or wherever they store their AR parts and will simply build another AR for the heck of it. I was not bashing you for it, just me being funny.

-Gio
no worries.. not offended. I knew I wanted color, I could see the perception of some on how it might look, as most of us like the traditional black on black, but it is exactly what I wanted to build this time around
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2010, 6:25 PM
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Disregard... had to read the fine print.
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Old 01-02-2010, 6:38 PM
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Awesome looking pistol. Very futuristic Star Warsish. I like.
I don't anything about AR pistols. Are they legal here in CA?
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Old 01-02-2010, 7:26 PM
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Sweet build. I like the color combo good job!
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2010, 8:25 AM
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Very cool, but I'd lose the CAA Stock Saddle in a hurry. There is a reason you're not supposed to be able to attach anything to a pistol tube buffer, and the fact that it is called a "Stock Saddle" doesn't help at all. That is waaaaaaaaaaay to close to being considered an SBR, unless you want to be a test case.

Last edited by John Browning; 01-03-2010 at 8:38 AM..
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Old 01-03-2010, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by scobun View Post
Very cool, but I'd lose the CAA Stock Saddle in a hurry. There is a reason you're not supposed to be able to attach anything to a pistol tube buffer, and the fact that it is called a "Stock Saddle" doesn't help at all. That is waaaaaaaaaaay to close to being considered an SBR, unless you want to be a test case.
read it all before - but never read "you're not supposed to be able to attach anything to a pistol tube buffer" - if so, anyone attaching paracord, sling mount or foam is screwed... nope, not buying your loose paraphrased definition.

get me a legit definition and law mention and I will give it some thought.

fact is, it is not a "stock". The fact it has the word "stock" in it does not make it a stock. it has the word "saddle" in it, and it is not a saddle.

You can't, by the design of that product and adding it to your buffer tube, use it as a "stock" and place it on up against your "shoulder" - what a stock is. if you place it on your shoulder, your placing the buffer tube on your shoulder, not this device. this CAA stock saddle being on does not change that at all and is not up against your shoulder.
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Old 01-03-2010, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by glock_this View Post
read it all before - but never read "you're not supposed to be able to attach anything to a pistol tube buffer" - if so, anyone attaching paracord, sling mount or foam is screwed... nope, not buying your loose paraphrased definition.

get me a legit definition and law mention and I will give it some thought.

fact is, it is not a "stock". The fact it has the word "stock" in it does not make it a stock. it has the word "saddle" in it, and it is not a saddle.

You can't, by the design of that product and adding it to your buffer tube, use it as a "stock" and place it on up against your "shoulder" - what a stock is. if you place it on your shoulder, your placing the buffer tube on your shoulder, not this device. this CAA stock saddle being on does not change that at all and is not up against your shoulder.
Just as they do with muzzle breaks and flash hiders, they can make it up as they go since there isn't a black and white definition of when something becomes an SBR. You are really close to that line, and it will take a court case to work out which side you're on. You are 100% correct that there isn't anything in black and white that says it is against the law, but there isn't much there that says it is legal, either. If you've got the dough (and the cajones) to work this out with the ATF as a test case, I applaud your bravado.

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  #16  
Old 01-03-2010, 1:35 PM
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Case law in the making right here...
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Old 01-03-2010, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by scobun View Post
Just as they do with muzzle breaks and flash hiders, they can make it up as they go since there isn't a black and white definition of when something becomes an SBR. You are really close to that line, and you're 100% correct that there isn't anything in black and white that says it is or isn't against the law. If you've got the dough to work this out with the ATF as a test case, I applaud your bravado.
don't get me wrong, it's not bravado.. and of course I do not want issues.. but I do not see it as a blurred line like you. it's not a butt stock. period. not sold as one, not advertised as one, does not function as one. I use it to store batteries for my laser.

really, there are so many things anyone could point at that "could" be an issue because they have never had official word or comment from "the authorities". Heck, early on the bullet button was a questionable device. now it is so ubiquitous, but still vague as IIRC there was never any official word it was legal and cool to own.. maybe 1 quote from 1 person on the inside, but nothing official if IIRC. "the authorities" have mostly been mute on many questionable areas, but we keep plodding forward.

some are so obvious, like putting a VFG on a pistol we know, for a fact, that is a no go.

heck, look at the KAC hand stop... that, by some, is a concern.. though it is not a VFG.

get it? this debate is endless and someone always tosses out the "if you wanna be a test case...." - I have no issues removing it if a definitive law or ruling or opinion backed by a bigger brain on the law pipes in. but in this instance with this device, a "maybe" "could" "possibly" - but with no clear law standard, it is hard to get super worried.
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Old 01-03-2010, 1:46 PM
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Case law in the making right here...
then you need to go back to the AR pistol thread and let the 20 other guys that did it before me know also heck, maybe I should start a poll on the topic like people did for the new Magpul AFG - even that is hotly debated

anyway.. enough of the hijack topic
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Old 01-03-2010, 1:53 PM
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Nice pistol Glock_This! Good to finally see it done.
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Old 01-03-2010, 2:01 PM
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Nice pistol Glock_This! Good to finally see it done.
hey thanks.. my plan was going to PM you when I posted - given all we went through on yours - but I totally forgot.

turned out pretty nice. plan to fire it wed night if all works out
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Old 01-03-2010, 2:10 PM
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As far as the CAA Stock saddle is concerned...WHen I listed my AR pistol for sale I had about 20 pms from different people telling me I should take it off because I was creating an SBR....I got the CAA Stock saddle idea from another Calgun member and I remember seeing on a thread where there was a letter written to the DOJ or BATF asking about the saddle being on an AR pistol and it was okay. Hope that helps.
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Old 01-03-2010, 2:13 PM
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As far as the CAA Stock saddle is concerned...WHen I listed my AR pistol for sale I had about 20 pms from different people telling me I should take it off because I was creating an SBR....I got the CAA Stock saddle idea from another Calgun memeber and I remember seeing on a thread where a letter was written to the DOJ or BATF asking about the saddle being on an AR pistol and it was okay. Hope that helps.
any chance you could PM me or post up the source of that? do you have it? was it here? I guess I can try to search it out - but as I said, not that worried. But just like back in the day (2005ish) it was advised we all carry a print out of the "flow chart" with us - who does that today - and/or a letter from the DOJ or your lower receiver maker saying it is an approved CA legal receiver (I also don't carry that for my original Vulcan anymore), it would still be nice to have this on file just because..
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Old 01-03-2010, 2:50 PM
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Looks great glock...
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Old 01-03-2010, 3:00 PM
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looks sweet man. I think the "stock saddle" makes it look awesome. One of the things that turned me off of an AR pistol was the buffer tube, i thought it made the gun completely fugly!! this actually makes it look nice.....maybe i WILL have to build an AR pistol after all.......my wife and my wallet now hate you
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Old 01-03-2010, 3:19 PM
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Nice work Glock. Ignore the haters and the keyboard lawyers, one of the first things I learned on Calguns was if someone can't actually give the PC or the exact wording of the law you are breaking then they are a full of ****. It isn't a stock and you won't be a test case. The ATF has far better things to do then knock down doors of law abiding citizens because the object on the end of their extention tube may or may not be a stock, but kind of is even though it has saddle in the name etc etc etc.

So how do you like the TRX? I have been digging them for a while, I tried to order one but Troy told me they sold out for the holidays. Very lightweight huh? How do you like the Neverquit grip, I was definetly going to throw that on my AR pistol as well.
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Old 01-03-2010, 3:28 PM
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Nice work Glock. Ignore the haters and the keyboard lawyers, one of the first things I learned on Calguns was if someone can't actually give the PC or the exact wording of the law you are breaking then they are a full of ****. It isn't a stock and you won't be a test case. The ATF has far better things to do then knock down doors of law abiding citizens because the object on the end of their extention tube may or may not be a stock, but kind of is even though it has saddle in the name etc etc etc.
thanks.. we agree 100%, you were just more concise

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So how do you like the TRX? I have been digging them for a while, I tried to order one but Troy told me they sold out for the holidays. Very lightweight huh? How do you like the Neverquit grip, I was definetly going to throw that on my AR pistol as well.
having not shot this yet, I still can comment.. they TRX Battle Extreme - as they also make the "Standard" - is awesome to me. I love the round profile and round port holes and this design allows it to fit over the Noveske Pig. Looks great, easy to install and you can get additional rail pieces if you need more and you can place them just where you want/need them. For the pistol, I did not want more and wanted it lighter so no need for 4 full length rails. Thus, it is awesome and very light.

as for price.. forget buying direct, there is a cat selling on eBay at crazy prices on those Troy TRX rails - extreme and standard. he can't be beat. period. I know, I shopped.

the Neverquit... this idea always intrigued me and I do not see it as handy on a full rifle, and would not likely have bought one, but when I DROS'd my pistol they had one sitting there so we slapped it on and I was sold instantly as I do think that in a smaller pistol setup, I am more likely to grab the magwell as doing so just "feels right". My hands tend to sweat - which is why I use only rubber grips - so the tacky rubber of the Neverquit and its finger grooved and bowed out profile fit great for me. so it was xmas and I said WTF.. we will see but I would be surprised if it is an issue.
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Old 01-03-2010, 3:44 PM
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thanks.. we agree 100%, you were just more concise
Heh. Some people are way overcautious. If you can use foam or rubber cane tips on it then how can you not put this. This object isn't a stock, it isn't even designed to make anythign shoulder fired, it is an accessory for cheek weld.

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as for price.. forget buying direct, there is a cat selling on eBay at crazy prices on those Troy TRX rails - extreme and standard. he can't be beat. period. I know, I shopped.
I saw that on Ebay. I thought I'd use his 9'' Extreme handguards for my pistol but he doesn't have an 11'' FDE that I wanted for my rifle. I'd decided to ditch rails, too heavy and I don't use the rail space anyways.

Very nice work. Where are you planning to test her out?
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Old 01-03-2010, 3:50 PM
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Heh. Some people are way overcautious. If you can use foam or rubber cane tips on it then how can you not put this. This object isn't a stock, it isn't even designed to make anythign shoulder fired, it is an accessory for cheek weld.

I saw that on Ebay. I thought I'd use his 9'' Extreme handguards for my pistol but he doesn't have an 11'' FDE that I wanted for my rifle. I'd decided to ditch rails, too heavy and I don't use the rail space anyways.

Very nice work. Where are you planning to test her out?
his stock and what he has comes and goes. He had what I wanted, then did not for like 2+ weeks and then pow, there was the 9" extreme one day and I snatched up 1 of the 2 he had. He just had 9" extremes on the 30th that did not sell it looks like, so he might relist.

I will be shooting it at Iron Sights in O'side.. closest place to me. Need to sight it in - laser, red dot and MBUS's - and see how it fires.
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Old 01-04-2010, 6:35 AM
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That's a sexy handgun you built. Very well done.
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Old 01-04-2010, 6:44 AM
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Can you do me a favor?

Can you measure the ID of the TROY rail? I can see that the KX3 goes inside of it but how much wiggle room is there? Is it at least 1.5+?
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2010, 8:20 AM
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great head on photo of the ID

ID is about 1.53 and the pig is a pretty close fit, 1.38, but fits no prob
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2010, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock_this View Post
great head on photo of the ID

ID is about 1.53 and the pig is a pretty close fit, 1.38, but fits no prob
Thanks...won't work for me though, too bad.
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2010, 11:55 AM
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I really like your build. This one for some reason looks especially evil!
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  #34  
Old 01-15-2010, 12:27 PM
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I'll take that compliment... and it shoots as nice.. err, nicer than evil
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  #35  
Old 02-01-2010, 11:31 AM
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What did you end up paying for the handguards?
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  #36  
Old 02-01-2010, 11:48 AM
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Very nice job, glock_this! I wouldn't worry too much about the stock saddle being a problem, either, considering that ATFE has issued a letter which appears to state that putting a crutch tip on the end of an AR pistol buffer tube doesn't make it a buttstock.
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  #37  
Old 02-01-2010, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intense View Post
What did you end up paying for the handguards?
huh? you mean "rails" or Magpul ladders or what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpyoldretiredcop View Post
Very nice job, glock_this! I wouldn't worry too much about the stock saddle being a problem, either, considering that ATFE has issued a letter which appears to state that putting a crutch tip on the end of an AR pistol buffer tube doesn't make it a buttstock.
not worried, never was.. but thanks
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  #38  
Old 02-01-2010, 2:46 PM
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The extreme battle rails
thanks
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  #39  
Old 02-01-2010, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
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The extreme battle rails
thanks
guy on eBay was selling them in the $165 range.. killer price
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  #40  
Old 02-01-2010, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock_this View Post
guy on eBay was selling them in the $165 range.. killer price
Thanks that's still his price but the Troy store is also 165 just looking for the best deal!

Nice pistol BTW
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