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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:21 AM
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Default What is considered a weapon in your vehicle?

I have been reading all these threads about what to do if you get pulled over and are asked if there are weapons or firearms in the car. It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer. Option two say nothing, again I just think you are asking for trouble.

Here is my question, is a disassembled firearm considered a weapon? Like an AR with a upper in a locked container an the lower in a different locked container? Or a pistol with the slide removed, frame and slide in two seperate locked cases? What's the difference between firearm parts and firearm?

I am not trying to be a jerk or smart *****, and I am not trying to find a loophole, I am really just wondering if I have parts in the car whether I would be telling a lie to say respond "NO" to the question " do you have any weapons in the car". IMO, if you can say no without lying to LE, you avoid a lot of potential for any problems??

Sure they can still search your car and find the parts with PC, but if that's going to happen after answering "no" to the weapons question, you were in for a frustrating day from the moment you got pulled over.

I don't lie to LE but I also don't ever want to make my life more complicated either.

Sure, I have rights, but even with these rights, I just don't want the headache should I ever get pulled over with a LEO who is going to push the limit with me.

Last edited by titan; 12-26-2009 at 1:04 AM..
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2009, 2:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titan View Post
It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer.
If the cop has P.C., he'll be searching your car regardless of how you answer.

If the cop does not have P.C., he won't search your car unless you voluntarily waive your 4th amendment rights.

What kind of bad outcomes are you imagining?
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Old 12-26-2009, 2:25 AM
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This has been answered quite a few times in the last few hours.

However, storing lawfully and then NOT CONSENTING TO WARRANTLESS SEARCHES IS THE BEST POLICY!

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Old 12-26-2009, 2:47 AM
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The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.

Last edited by titan; 12-26-2009 at 2:52 AM..
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:45 AM
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The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.
BIG MISTAKE
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:17 PM
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So where does that leave us on the questions of what's considered a weapon? Does anybody know the answer to this?
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:27 PM
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The part with the serial number is always a gun. The rest of the stuff, when disassembled, is parts.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:32 PM
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The part with the serial number is always a gun. The rest of the stuff, when disassembled, is parts.
Right.

Disassembled does not matter. People v Hale (1974)
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A firearm disassembled into two or more parts, can nevertheless constitute an operable weapon within the meaning of the Dangerous Weapons Control Law. (People v. Ekberg,94 Cal. App. 2d 613, 616-617 [211 P.2d 316]; see also, State v. Ware (Fla.App.) 253 So.2d 145.)
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:36 PM
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Remaining silent and not consenting to a search, for me, is being honest and legal.

I'm going to exercise my rights regardless of what I am asked. An LEO can and will try to get you talking and lead yourself to slaughter. As in allowing them to search when you don't have to, and letting them find your OLL with a bullet button and call it an AW.

Transport your legal firearms in a legal manner and out of sight, and don't consent to an illegal search.

Hell, a baseball bat is a weapon in this state. A crescent wrench, lug wrench, you name it. Stripped lower is a firearm, etc.

Make them work to bust you. Make them do it so it will stand the light of day in court and within department policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by titan View Post
The bad outcome I am fearing is running into a LEO who does not know about BBs other the other exceptions. I guess the real question is, are parts considered a weapon? If I have an upper in a car it's a part, if I have a lower in the car it's a part. If I have both in the car but not assembled do I have a weapon or gun parts? I guess I am confused from this recent trend of "mag kits". Assembed they are a mag, as a kit, they are mag parts. Again, not trying to be difficult. Take it one step futher. If you have all the parts to build a gun, is it a weapon? If you had a stripped lower in the car, is that a stripped lower or a weapon?

All my stuff is legal, but that does not mean I could not run into a problem by saying " I have nothing illegal" or "I do not consent to a search" or "Yes I do have a weapon in the car". I hope I never run into a situation like this. However, thinking positive, I still have some faith that honesty and being legal would = no issue.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:40 PM
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thanks, I guess that answers the question.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:44 PM
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Dissembling is pointless since it is still a firearm. Might as well just have the rifle either in a locked container like a trunk with the ammo for school zones or if that is a non issue just just put it somewhere out of sight if you don't want to draw in attention.
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Old 12-26-2009, 1:12 PM
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A ballpoint pen, a screwdriver, a rope,a 3cell maglight,pepper spray
; I have lots of weapons in my car
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Old 12-26-2009, 3:24 PM
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Good point. I guess there is no way around the potential risks involved with transporting firearms.
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Old 12-27-2009, 1:43 AM
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as pointed out from the last few posts, anything within reach of the driver can be considered and deadly weapon. paperweight, pen, rolled up newspaper, you name it. LOL

also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".
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Old 12-27-2009, 2:27 AM
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also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".
Why not?
"do you have any weapons in your car?"
"no"
"have a nice day"
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Old 12-27-2009, 7:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titan View Post
I have been reading all these threads about what to do if you get pulled over and are asked if there are weapons or firearms in the car. It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer. Option two say nothing, again I just think you are asking for trouble.
From a legal standpoint, the safest way to handle police questioning is to not answer their questions at all. You could remain completely silent, but saying something like this will likely make the encounter go better: 'Hey officer, I know you're just doing your job, and I respect that. By law I'm not required to answer any of your questions, and I'm not going to, and I hope that you respect that as well'.

I've heard many people recommend making the 'I have nothing illegal in the car' statement. I disagree, as there may actually be something illegal in your car that you are unaware of. Should you end up being arrested and charged with something, your false statement will now be used against you. Silence is golden.

These two videos explain why answering questions is virtually always a bad idea:

Don't Talk to Cops (Part 1)

Don't Talk to Cops (Part 2)

And of course, never-ever consent to a search.
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2009, 7:08 AM
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Default What is considered a weapon in your vehicle?

Me.
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  #18  
Old 12-27-2009, 9:17 AM
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Originally Posted by loudninja View Post
as pointed out from the last few posts, anything within reach of the driver can be considered and deadly weapon. paperweight, pen, rolled up newspaper, you name it. LOL

also, never answer a LE question with a simple "yes" or "no".
Wouldn't it be great to hit him with a newspaper? And you've gotta scold him too when you do it. "No!! Bad!! Now you go think about what you've done!" *WHACK!*
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Old 12-27-2009, 9:23 AM
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Yeah, just don't talk to them. I have had some success saying "well officer I respect that you are doing your job, but I'm kind of a civil rights activist and as such Im not going to answer any questions today." I like to throw the "civil rights activist" thing in there cause it tends to conjure up images of the ACLU and lawyers, marches and situations where the people took power from the government. My hope is it makes em think that you may have the backing of a large, well funded group with lots of bad azz lawyers (which we do) so they tread carefully. I don't mention which civil rights, if you start spouting 2A stuff at that moment they will most likely take a much harder look at you.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

And watch the don't talk to the police vids. Pure gold.

Last edited by Lone_Gunman; 12-27-2009 at 9:36 AM..
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
Why not?
"do you have any weapons in your car?"
"no"
"have a nice day"

But what if you do have weapons in the car? if you say no, you're lying to a cop, if you say yes, as I understand it, they now have a right to check to make sure they are unloaded and/or being transported properly.

"I don't want to make any statements and I am not giving my permission for you to search my vehicle".

Is this better, worse, does it matter?
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dave1947 View Post
A ballpoint pen, a screwdriver, a rope,a 3cell maglight,pepper spray
; I have lots of weapons in my car


I'm a general building contractor. At any given time, I have things in my truck bed, and cab that are some of the best weapons around. Axes, framing hammers, hatchets, pry bars, a .25 caliber Hilti ramset powder actuated drive pin tool.

I'm nervous as hell with all of that stuff, but what can I do? I can't lock all of that crap down every time I move it. Some of it stays in the truck at all times.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:04 AM
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I'm a general building contractor. At any given time, I have things in my truck bed, and cab that are some of the best weapons around. Axes, framing hammers, hatchets, pry bars, a .25 caliber Hilti ramset powder actuated drive pin tool.

I'm nervous as hell with all of that stuff, but what can I do? I can't lock all of that crap down every time I move it. Some of it stays in the truck at all times.
have you seen mythbusters?... the one with bowlingball and hatchet in the back seat? lmao
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Old 12-27-2009, 9:31 PM
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Thanks to my daughter:

A Brittany Spears CD

It's a crime against music..
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titan View Post
I have been reading all these threads about what to do if you get pulled over and are asked if there are weapons or firearms in the car. It seems to me that telling LE that "you have nothing illegal in the car" is just asking for a hard time. It may be well within my rights, but I just can't see a good outcome from this answer. Option two say nothing, again I just think you are asking for trouble.

Here is my question, is a disassembled firearm considered a weapon? Like an AR with a upper in a locked container an the lower in a different locked container? Or a pistol with the slide removed, frame and slide in two seperate locked cases? What's the difference between firearm parts and firearm?

I am not trying to be a jerk or smart *****, and I am not trying to find a loophole, I am really just wondering if I have parts in the car whether I would be telling a lie to say respond "NO" to the question " do you have any weapons in the car". IMO, if you can say no without lying to LE, you avoid a lot of potential for any problems??

Sure they can still search your car and find the parts with PC, but if that's going to happen after answering "no" to the weapons question, you were in for a frustrating day from the moment you got pulled over.

I don't lie to LE but I also don't ever want to make my life more complicated either.

Sure, I have rights, but even with these rights, I just don't want the headache should I ever get pulled over with a LEO who is going to push the limit with me.
I am a cop. If I ask You if You ," Sir, do You have any weapons in Your vehicle?". If you say, " No officer" and I will find Uppers and lowers , slides and frames etc. I will ask You why You did not tell me about Your weapons. If I stop two people ,for a reason and find that one of them has a frame and a magazine for a Glock and the other has the upper unit, it will not very good . To say the least.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
I am a cop. If I ask You if You ," Sir, do You have any weapons in Your vehicle?". If you say, " No officer" and I will find Uppers and lowers , slides and frames etc. I will ask You why You did not tell me about Your weapons. If I stop two people ,for a reason and find that one of them has a frame and a magazine for a Glock and the other has the upper unit, it will not very good . To say the least.
If someone says "No Officer" why are you going to continue on your search? And if you find them, and they are legal, what exactly do you plan on doing about it?
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:28 PM
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But what if you do have weapons in the car? if you say no, you're lying to a cop, if you say yes, as I understand it, they now have a right to check to make sure they are unloaded and/or being transported properly.

"I don't want to make any statements and I am not giving my permission for you to search my vehicle".

Is this better, worse, does it matter?
Since when is lying to a cop illegal? They are allowed to lie to you, you can lie to them!
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:57 PM
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This whole situation is really not good, who needs extra stress in their life, I don't. I wouldn't worry about this except for the horror stories I read here where guys with rifles with a BB are being arrested and having their lawfully owned property taken from them because some LEO do not understand the laws governing these rifles. I am not bashing LEO, but if you turn the tables I'm sure you would feel the same.

I guess if you drive with a legal firearm stored in accordance to the law just hope you never get pulled over. If you do, then pray they don't ask if you have a weapon in the car as you don't know if it's a LEO who is also a CALGUNs member or one who is going to make day turn really bad for being honest and following the law.

I guess it's the price we must pay in CA having this hobby,

Edit, I mean exercising our 2nd amendment rights.

Sorry this thread carried on too long.

Last edited by titan; 12-28-2009 at 12:23 AM..
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:04 AM
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Since when is lying to a cop illegal? They are allowed to lie to you, you can lie to them!
It is more ideal to remain silent and use your 5th amendment rights. For example if a cop asks do you have any weapons respond by saying i have nothing illegal. The cop cannot use that response as probable cause to search your car. If they do not have a warrant or no probable cause (if an AR is in plain sight that is PC, plain sight rule) there is not much they can do besides trying to scare you into surrendering your rights.
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Old 12-28-2009, 1:30 AM
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They can't use "No" as PC to search you either. Where one statement ends the line of questioning, and the other leads to more questions. I still can't remember a time when I was asked about weapons in the car, and getting pulled over MANY times (for driving hondas.. Oh Noes!!) I have lots of experience with it. If they did ask me, the answer would always be no.
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Old 12-28-2009, 8:14 AM
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Since when is lying to a cop illegal? They are allowed to lie to you, you can lie to them!

I don't know if it's illegal or not. But I'm not going to tell lies when I'm not doing anything illegal in the first place and don't have to speak at all.

Does anyone know if lying to a cop is illegal?
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Old 12-28-2009, 8:22 AM
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It is my understanding that lying to a federal officer who is questioning you pursuant to a federal investigation is illegal. AFAIK lying to a regular city or state cop is not against the law. If any of our esteemed officers here would like to dig up the code that proves me wrong I would love to see it.
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Old 12-28-2009, 8:23 AM
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If someone says "No Officer" why are you going to continue on your search? And if you find them, and they are legal, what exactly do you plan on doing about it?
I'd really like an answer to this one also.
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Old 12-28-2009, 9:22 AM
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I don't know if it's illegal or not. But I'm not going to tell lies when I'm not doing anything illegal in the first place and don't have to speak at all.
+1000

Even if lying to a cop is legal, your lie would be used against you to impune your honesty and credibility if you ended up getting charged with something. There is no reason to ever lie and risk that, since 5A allows you to remain completely silent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
Does anyone know if lying to a cop is illegal?
It depends on the circumstance. Providing false information (even if not a lie) to a federal agent is a crime per 18 USC 1001.

Falsely identifying yourself to a LEO is illegal per 148.9 PC.

If your lie ends up delaying or hindering the cop, they could charge you with their swiss-army-knife crime
148 PC.

If you file a complaint against an officer and include false information, that used to be a crime per 148.6 PC. However, the 9th circuit ruled that the law was unconstitutional in Chaker v. Crogan (summary article on that is here).

There may be other specific instances when lying to a cop is illegal. I think I spotted another one the other day, but my recollection is failing me at the moment.
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  #34  
Old 12-28-2009, 9:28 AM
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I have a friend who was arrested for having nunchucks in his car. nunchucks!!! Luckily he was signing up for the Marines and his recruiting office took care of the deadly weapons charges. Damn pieces of wood held together with a chain.

Answering your question I think just having a lower in your vehicle would be considered a weapon since that is what you get licensed if I am correct.
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loudninja View Post
have you seen mythbusters?... the one with bowlingball and hatchet in the back seat? lmao
Yeah, that was a good one. I love that show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
+1000

Even if lying to a cop is legal, your lie would be used against you to impune your honesty and credibility if you ended up getting charged with something. There is no reason to ever lie and risk that, since 5A allows you to remain completely silent.



It depends on the circumstance. Providing false information (even if not a lie) to a federal agent is a crime per 18 USC 1001.

Falsely identifying yourself to a LEO is illegal per 148.9 PC.

If your lie ends up delaying or hindering the cop, they could charge you with their swiss-army-knife crime
148 PC.

If you file a complaint against an officer and include false information, that used to be a crime per 148.6 PC. However, the 9th circuit ruled that the law was unconstitutional in Chaker v. Crogan (summary article on that is here).

There may be other specific instances when lying to a cop is illegal. I think I spotted another one the other day, but my recollection is failing me at the moment.
Yep, silence is absolutely golden. I'm saying nothing, truth, lies, or otherwise incriminating. Keeping my mouth shut.
If I get stopped by the cops and I have my legal weapons legally secured, they couldn't get a dime between my teeth with a jackhammer.
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:42 PM
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I got pulled over by a copper few months ago and he asked me exactly that question, "do you have anything illegal"? I responded to him, "meaning"? He replied "I don't know". It just ended there.....

when I have my toys in the car I tend to drive extra carefully and just be smoother.....
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:21 PM
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I just watched the "Don't talk to Police" clip. Does this also apply to the checkpoints that are setup 40 miles from the border?

When I go hunting near Niland, there is a checkpoint. They always ask questions like:

1. Where are you coming from?
2. Is that your son? (when my boy hunts with me)
3. Other personal questions...

Lately, when they ask where I am coming from, I just reply "I am a US citizen" and then am silent.

Can I just tell them "I am not legally required to answer your questions." and leave it at that? I would rather say that because it tells them to f*ck off in an kind, indirect way.

(I hate these Nazi checkpoints within our own borders. If they really cared about stopping illegal aliens they wouldn't give them all the free goodies.)

Last edited by benelli shooter; 03-06-2010 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:30 PM
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You don't have to answer any questions, just shutup and wait for your ticket.
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:48 AM
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IIRC, those checkpoints near the border are different...cant remember the details..im sure someone will come along shortly and clarify...
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Old 03-07-2010, 2:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP301 View Post
IIRC, those checkpoints near the border are different...cant remember the details..im sure someone will come along shortly and clarify...
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The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
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