[sheepdog~7.62]

Hello,

I am very interested in becoming an LEO. I've been doing a lot of research lately regarding the hiring process and I've run into a possible snag. I have read on several local PD sites that one of the requirements for officers is to have "normal" hearing in both ears. Specifically, you can't have over 25db hearing loss in the 500, 1000, and 2000 frequency range in each ear.

My issue is this: I am completely deaf in my right ear, but I have normal hearing in my left ear. I've had this since I was an infant and I've never considered it a disability or handicap for me as I am able to do what "normal-hearing" people do. In fact, if you were to speak with me, you wouldn't even be able to tell this about me unless I told you. I am 29 years old, college-educated, have normal vision in both eyes, and am reasonably fit and healthy. I know I would be able to pass all the requirements to be an officer except for the hearing issue.

My question is this: Would my hearing loss ultimately disqualify me across the board as a candidate to be an LEO (despite satisfying all other requirements)?

Any information anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for your time!

[Spyder]

I would guess yes, it would. Start calling the recruiting officers of any department you may be interested in and ask them...but unfortunately, you're probably out of luck.

[Fire in the Hole]

This answer is coming from a deaf retired LEO.

I have 100% hearing loss in my right ear. I wear a hearing aid in my left ear, which gives me 50% recovery. My hearing was fine when I joined up. But 30 years of working hte road took its toll. I wore hearing aids in both ears my last 4 years on the job. Then I came down with a kind of a brian tumor called an acoustic neuroma in 2006. The operation was a success, but left me with the 100% hearing loss in my right ear. I lost all sense of stereo acoustics. I was unable to do the job with this handicap. I could not conduct interviews, or interrogations, or basically communicatce without reading lips. It was time for me to go.

Having said this, and I really hate to rain on your parade; but I'm pessimestic about your hiring aspects in LE. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[AvyDriver]

Do they say able to hear unassisted at these ranges or "correctable to"?

[Suvorov]

I have a good friend here in Texas who is Houston PD and wears a hearing aid. I'm not sure what percentage of hearing loss he has, but I'll check with him tomorrow and see what he has to say.

[Cokebottle]

While it may not result in an across the board disqualification, I doubt you would qualify for anything other than a desk job, or perhaps something in investigations in the field. Certainly nothing where situational awareness would be more important than it would be to a typical citizen.

I too am deaf in my right ear, and when looking into my options in the Military when I was in high school, I took the ASVAB, and then began to fend off the recruiters (98%ile across the board except for a 76 on perceptual speed). Finally got the call from the USAF. We chatted for a half hour or so and we were both ready to go. I mentioned "Before we spend any more time and I go in for the physical, will deafness in my right ear be a problem?"
His response was "probably, I'll call you back"

2 days later, he called back. Due to the high test scores, he was able to push through a variance to get me in. I asked "Will I fly?" The answer: "A desk".


Now, keep in mind that this was in 1981, so they were not particularly hungry for recruits... things are probably different today.

[Fire in the Hole]

The big thing to consider here is the difference between getting hired with a hearing loss, versus being tenured and subsequently loosing your hearing.

Back in what seems like prehistoric times, after already serving a stint in the Army, I applied to the Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard, to attend helicopter pilot school. Since I wore glasses, it was an absolute NO. The degree of prescription did not matter. No corrective lenses whatsoever. However a pilot could finish flight school, and start wearing glasses the next day.

[fullrearview]

Not to discourage you, but it will be tough. That being said, there are options. I just took a hearing test yesterday, and it was my 3rd test in my life and the last year. I noticed a pattern with them. as they go through the DB range, they have a certain rhythm. After you push the button, the next one would start about 3/4 a second later.

I say research them and then go take one and see how you do. It may not be as bad as you think.

Edit: In bold, I was not implying to try and deceive or cheat on the test, sorry if I made it seem so....What I mean by that is, learn as much about it as you can so you are prepared to take it. I have known people that fail the color blind test but are not color blind... they just had trouble finding the numbers in the circle, but by preparing themselves and studying the tests they were able to pass just fine.

Again, in no way am I saying cheat on the test, since I am sure they have a system in place to prevent it. Just learn all you can about it so you know what your up against. Maybe the last time you were tested, you they did it wrong.

[Big D]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but do any of you guys think that wearing an earphone in one ear for your service radio is going to cause a loss of hearing in one ear over the other during the course of a career?

[Fire in the Hole]

I doubt it, but the technology is too new to reveal any such statistics yet.

[N_S]

I once got the chance to meet the former chief of the Mountain View PD, John Smith. He lost his hearing during the course of his job because back when he started they didn't value hearing protection as much as they do now. In particular he claims the most likely cause is the time he spent on the range over the years with no hearing protection at all.
Today he can still make out some things but even having a simple conversation with him is difficult. Hearing aid or no hearing aid.
He said if you go into law enforcement with impaired hearing it just won't work out unless they keep you chained to a desk.

[sheepdog~7.62]

Wow, thanks for all of your input, gentlemen! I really appreciate you guys taking the time out to respond. I've got to admit though I'm kind of bummed out in reading the responses. I was really hoping to get into LE and it didn't even dawn on me that my hearing loss could/would be an issue.


I've got a couple more questions:

1) If my long term goal in LE is to land some kind of detective/investigative role, how much of an issue would hearing loss be at that point?

2) Is it an absolute requirement to have experience as a street cop before landing a detective/investigator role, or is there a way to bypass it?

3) What alternate LE jobs are available for someone like me?

Thanks again guys!

[Fire in the Hole]

Originally Posted by sheepdog~7.62

Wow, thanks for all of your input, gentlemen! I really appreciate you guys taking the time out to respond. I've got to admit though I'm kind of bummed out in reading the responses. I was really hoping to get into LE and it didn't even dawn on me that my hearing loss could/would be an issue.


I've got a couple more questions:

1) If my long term goal in LE is to land some kind of detective/investigative role, how much of an issue would hearing loss be at that point?

2) Is it an absolute requirement to have experience as a street cop before landing a detective/investigator role, or is there a way to bypass it?

3) What alternate LE jobs are available for someone like me?

Thanks again guys!

Here's the thing. Question #1: Depends largely on the side of the department. I have a friend on the local PD, who has been working the streets for 22 years waiting for a detective slot to open up.

To advance to detective, one has to prove their worth as a street cop first, then compete with other street cops vieing for the detective spot. Typically about an average of 10 years. But to even make it into the running, you have to start out in the academy, then work the streets in a PD, or the jails as a deputy first. A hearing loss probably DQ's you from even getting hired in the first place.

Question #2: The only cases I've ever heard of is a person who's worked investigations before at an allied agency, then laterally transfers to another agency for this spot. We are talking the traditional PD or SO kind of LE here.

Which leads us to Question #3: Yes there are alternative kinds of investigative jobs out there that are pretty much investigation only type jobs. I do not know what their physical qualifications are. You would have to check them individually.

Such as CA DOJ, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, US Postal Inspections, DMV Investigator, Welfare Fraud Investigator, Workers Compensation Fraud Investigator, Private Eye, Investigator for a DA's office or Private law firm.

There are many others, these are just few off the top of my head.


Now, on the other hand, if you were totally blind, there is a detective opening here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytxm16XI9q4

[BigDogatPlay]

FWIW, one guy of my acquaintance has been heavily impaired in one ear his entire life. It took him many, many tries and many, many refusals until he landed a job with a city agency in NorCal. He's still working there and has a good career going.

If you are a solid candidate, and you are willing to look long enough and hard enough, there can be opportunities out there.

[Big D]

I think you should be more concerned about that weird thing going on with your eyes

[sheepdog~7.62]

Originally Posted by Big D

I think you should be more concerned about that weird thing going on with your eyes

LOL!

[LtMike70]

Hello Sheepdog

The advice given is good. If you really want to be LEO then you have to just keep trying until you find someone that is willing to waive your condition and look at the bigger picture of having a good candidate. Most larger departments have hearing minimum standards and they have plenty of applications submitted so they dont always waive conditions. Other departments may not have as many applications submitted so they may be willing to let one thing go. So, as has been mentioned, apply everywhere. My department is not hiring except for one peace officer position and that requires a Masters Degree in Social Work. here is the link to my departments current civilian and peace officer postions.

http://probation.co.la.ca.us/anmviewer.asp?a=14&z=4

look at the listing for Deputy Probation Officer II. It does not specifically list a minimum hearing standard, but I know we have to take a medical exam. next year if the budget improves we may be looking at filling close to 500 different peace officer positions throughout the department. So your situation may not exclude you. It really boils down to what you have to offer the respective department. Some may recommend to you that you put yourself through a Basic POST Academy so that your training is already done and the deparment may be willing to ignore the hearing because you are ready to start on the job. Or like my departments DPO II position, we have a hard time finding people that have Masters Degrees in Social Work that want to be peace officers. So, ultimately, what i am trying to say is, will it be difficult to get a job in LE, Yes. Is it absolutely impossible, I dont think so. Heck, we hired a guy that had only one lung. He was able to show that he could meet a minimun standard and he was hired. He has served as a great officer for our department the last 9 years. So keep your head up and dont give up, just keep trying and if it is meant to be it will happen. good luck

[sheepdog~7.62]

Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay

FWIW, one guy of my acquaintance has been heavily impaired in one ear his entire life. It took him many, many tries and many, many refusals until he landed a job with a city agency in NorCal. He's still working there and has a good career going.

If you are a solid candidate, and you are willing to look long enough and hard enough, there can be opportunities out there.

That's awesome! What exactly does your acquaintance do (i.e. detective, investigator, street cop, etc.)?

[LtMike70]

I know you were asking about the other guy but my friend is now a Deputy Probation Officer II working Probation supervision in the field. He handles of caseload of about 50 adult probationers and it is his responsibility to ensure that all of those probationers comply with their conditions of Probation. He has to do home, work or possibly school visits as part of his investigation process. If someone is not complying with their conditions of probation then he places them under arrest and transports back to county jail. He does all the investigative work of a Probation officer with the field work included. He does have the opportunity to pretty much do anything within our deparment except work in our Specialized Enforcement Operations (SEO) units. they are the ones going ofter high risk offenders with active warrents and they are assigned to other law enforcement agencies. We do have a hearing minimum for that unit do to the extreme high risk nature of what they do. But otherwise we are a department of 4600 sworn peace officers that run all of the countys juvenile halls and detention camps as well as handle 70K adult probationers a year. lots to do in our department. Now our pay isnt has great as other departments like LAPD, or LASD but it is enough to live a comfortable life. once again, dont give up and keep your head up.

stay safe

[sheepdog~7.62]

Thank you for the encouraging words LtMike70!

I know I'd be a rock solid candidate and have much to offer to LE if given the chance. I still plan on applying to as many places I can find. I understand the entire process may take a long time and so in the meantime, I will see an ENT specialist about my condition (maybe there's something new that can be done), I will get myself both physically and mentally ready, and I will look into going through a Basic POST Academy.

I am up for this challenge and I plan on making myself desirable in all other aspects so that as you've stated, HOPEFULLY, someone will look at the bigger picture and look past my condition.

[retired]

Good luck sheepdog.

[LtMike70]

Hey Sheepdog

I dont know if you have ever heard of the House Ear Clinic, but they are world renown in the field. I know they are far from where you are located but you may want to look them up on the web. the House Earl Clinic is located in Los Angeles. My Mother in law is a nurse that works with them from time to time and she says that it is incredible the things that they can do. They constantly do the hearing for many foreign dignitaries. You never know, since they are leaders in the research of hearing loss they may be able to do something for you. Once again good luck. I just found there website, here it is:
http://www.houseearclinic.com/

Also, Napa Valley College does have police academy. They do accept non sponsored recruits as part of their program. it is a small academy but well funded. I understand alot of the smaller northern california departments send their recruits to that academy and it is a respected academy. I completed a week long Chemical Agents Instructor course their last year and I was impressed with what they had to offer. their website is:
http://www.nvccjtc.org/

Once again good luck

[BigDogatPlay]

Originally Posted by LtMike70

Also, Napa Valley College does have police academy. They do accept non sponsored recruits as part of their program. it is a small academy but well funded. I understand alot of the smaller northern california departments send their recruits to that academy and it is a respected academy. I completed a week long Chemical Agents Instructor course their last year and I was impressed with what they had to offer. their website is:
http://www.nvccjtc.org/

+1... the Napa College academy is top shelf. I know the dean of the college's Career Technical Education department, who was the academy director for many years, as well as several instructors and tac officers. I've also done several in service courses there over the years. They take a huge amount of pride in their program and it shows in the people that they graduate.

Entrance test for the upcoming January academy is November 14.

[Suvorov]

For what it is worth, I spoke with my friend here in Houston yesterday and mentioned your situation. He said that he was diagnoses with "Profound" hearing loss and was told by many that he would not be able to get a job in law enforcement. He kept applying and was in the process of being fitted for an advanced hearing aid when he got the call from Houston PD. He has been on the job for just about 10 years now and recently became a K9 officer. Since his dog is cross-trained as a SWAT dog, he was able to backdoor himself into SWAT. PM me if you would like his contact info.

The advice given here matches what my friend says. Keep trying, keep applying, and get your foot in the door somewhere (even if that mean moving to a less desirable location).

Good luck to you, there are few things the country needs more than good people in uniform.