Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions > CGN's Best Threads (Limited Posting)
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

CGN's Best Threads (Limited Posting) This forum is for storing and or easy accessing useful or important threads.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1  
Old 11-07-2009, 6:16 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,760
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default WARNING: "MagMagnet" magnetic cap for Bullet Button sold at gunshows: DO NOT USE/BUY!

Today at Cow Palace Gunshow I saw a product that made me more than cringe.

It's the "MAG MAGNET" from Mag Magnet, Inc. Their website is at http://www.ar-magmagnet.com but thankfully their website is dead.

The device is a small magnetic cap that fits over the Bullet Button device and allows manual operation of the Bullet Button. It effectively is a new mag catch button operable from one's finger.

I have acquired one from someone who kindly donated it to CGF for discussion/analysis.

THIS PRODUCT, - IF USED/INSTALLED ON AN AR with BULLET-BUTTON MAGLOCK (i.e., an AR build with "features")
WILL TRIGGER ASSAULT WEAPONS STATUS. YOU WILL BE COMMITTING AT LEAST ONE - IF NOT MORE - FELONIES
(MANUFACTURING/POSSESSION OF AN UNREGISTED ASSAULT WEAPON.

  • The person in the booth selling these was counseled by multiple parties to not sell this.
  • Most of the traffic at this guy's booth were noobs who are just starting to get into OLLs, or people watching me yell at him
  • The person staffing the booth carefully demos his device on a 'featureless' build (no PG, no FH, either U15 stock or MM grip)
    with needless Bullet Button & 10rd mag, thus not triggering AW status.
  • His assertions that it's legal are notably absent a "put your money where your mouth is" stance - using it on a BB-maglock'd build with features.
  • He asserts it's a tool. Whether or not magnetic, the device can stay on a BB device and it then serves as a large mag button
  • The pkg includes a warning sheet (exact quote except for some abbreviations or possible typos):

    "For use in California, do not leave Mag Magnet on rifle at any time. Mag Magnet is intended to be used
    as a magazine tool to comply with Title 11 Calif. Code of Regulations Sec. 5469(a) and California Penal
    Code 12276.1. Leaving Mag Magnet on firearm mag designate it as an illegal assault weapon in violation of
    California law. The CA Dept. of Justice has not taken action on the Mag Magnet.

    Do not use Mag Magnet in California on magazines with capacities larger than 10 rounds. It is advised that
    Mag Magnet user become familiar with Calif. DOJ requirements and updated interpretations of existing laws
    and regulations.

    Mag Magnet Inc. shall not be held responsible in any way for the inappropriate use of the product by the
    user. User asssumes all liability and risks associated with ownership and use of this product. Mag Magnet
    Inc. shall not be held responsible in any way for the inappropriate use of this product by the user. User
    assumes all liability and risks associated with ownership and use of this product."


  • The packages are sealed and buyers have told me they do not get to see the warning sheet before purchase.
    During my enquiries I was told the bag was sealed, could not open. It was only verbally described as legal
  • The vendor says he has had an attorney check it out, a former LA DA. (I'm betting he said "it's legal if
    you don't sell it attached to a gun confgured as XXX"....)
  • THIS PRODUCT IS NOT A TOOL. WHEN MOUNTED ON A BULLET BUTTON IT MAKES THE BULLET BUTTON A
    NORMAL FINGER-OPERATED MAG CATCH AND THUS TURNS "FEATURED" AR BUILDS INTO ILLEGAL AWs.

  • THERE IS NO TIME SPECIFICATION IN THE LAW FOR HOW SHORT OR LONG THIS PRODUCT COULD BE ON A
    BulletButton MAG LOCK BEFORE TRIGGERING AW STATUS. THE *INSTANT* THE DEVICE IS ON THE BULLET BUTTON
    IT'S A LARGER MAG CATCH BUTTON JUST LIKE THAT OF A STOCK FREE-STATE AR15.
    There simply is no time limit
    allowed in CA law for an illegally-configured AW.
  • THE SITUATION ON THIS DEVICE IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHY "TOOLS" SHOULD NOT BE ATTACHED VIA STRING
    TO A MAGLOCK'D GUN - THEY LIKELY WILL BE REGARDED AS PART OF THE GUN AND NOT A TOOL.

  • Thiis device would be problematic even if nonmagmentic and held on by friction, gravity, gunk/lube accumulation, etc.

This product is simply NOT needed and only will cause problems:

- it's generally unusable in California

- it's not needed outside CA, where a regular AR mag catch can be dropped in or removed in ~30 seconds.

- the people it's being marketed to are noobs being led down a troublesome path.



PLEASE USE YOUR CALGUNS KNOWLEDGE TO VOCIFEROUSLY DISSUADE OTHERS FROM BUYING/ACQUIRING THESE DEVICES FOR USE ON A GUN.
IF YOU SEE NOOBS AT A GUNSHOW BUYING ARs WITH THEM, PLEASE CAUTION THEM. (Be nice - they thought they had a legit product from a legit vendor.)

While legal in & of itself, these devices put the owner in real danger for multiple felony AW charges - no matter what a former supposed LA DA has said.


The best an owner of such a rifle w/such a device could hope for, if and when charged, is an AB2728 surrender of rifle or misdemeanor or a rare dismissal for nonclarity (highly unlikely).

[NB: The only real use for this product I can see would be for a person like myself with off-list Category 3 (only!) Registered AWs.
Such reg'd AWs could be equipped with Bullet Buttons (providing they're over 30" OAL) and then used with this Mag Magnet device to
be operable AWs at range, yet when transporting them home a 10rd magazine is installed before, locked in by the Bullet Button, and
with no Mag Magnet cap on the BB maglock. At this point the reg'd Cat 3 AW is no longer an AW and can be transported as a non-AW,
and without worry of "specific destination" laws. It also might be used for rimfire vs centerfire exchanges when a rimfire upper is in place.]


IF THE OWNERS/SELLERS OF THE MAG MAGNET WANT TO COME HERE AND DISCUSS THEIR PRODUCT'S LEGALITY AND SALES STRATEGY, FINE.

IF THEY WANT TO SUE ME FOR DEFAMING THEIR PRODUCT OR ORGANIZATION, FINE. (Take a friggin' number.)


Please let me know if you find vendors/gunshops selling these devices, rifles being imported into California with these installed, or FFLs selling fixed-mag/BB'd rifles equipped with these.


At least the Latino dude selling various AR, etc. parts stopped selling Glock forward grips and buttstocks when warned; he just didn't know.

__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

Last edited by bwiese; 11-08-2009 at 8:00 AM..
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:30 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.