Hard/Fast rules for OLL travel

[Geo]

**** 'em. No warrent, no PC, no search. Or you can be a sheep.

[vintagedude88]

Originally Posted by Geo

**** 'em. No warrent, no PC, no search. Or you can be a sheep.

Enuff said

[bearing01]

Originally Posted by Glock21sfsd

I have a question for you guys.............I drive to El entro allotand there is a border patrol checkpoint going both ways now. I read that if a LEO asks you to search your vehicle to say no, but almost half the time at the border patrol check points they want to look in my trunk and I let them. Should I say no and not let them? My thoughts are that if I say no they will pull me over to secondary and give me a hard time. So what would you do?

I have this same question. Last weekend we went out to the desert and during the stop on the way we told them we were looking for a spot to go shooting. They actually told us where to go. Now, on the way back, they had a girl stopped in secondary and her trunk was open. There were at least two illegals sitting in her trunk with their head popped out. I am going to assume that if they want to search your car they will give you a hard time if you refuse.

[tombinghamthegreat]

Originally Posted by kenshinoro2007

If my handgun is unloaded and locked in a safe in my trunk... i may have loaded mags in my trunk outside of the safe and in the car's cabin legally right?

you can have the loaded mags right next to the gun, even touching in a locked container or open carried(UOC is another subject). Just as long as the gun is unloaded you will not violate PC12031 nor violate people vs clark

[916-DADDY]

"Sounds like , We are Guilty Untill Proovin Innocent"

I mite get some mud flaps for the rock crawler 4Runner B4 going to the Rubicon, And make sure all the turn signals and all work too.....

How sad in the USA.....

Maybe 2012 will be the ????????? times......

That is crap that alot of cops dont get schooled on whats legal and not!

[Cali-Shooter]

Originally Posted by Blackwater OPS

You are under no legal obligation to tell an officer about firearms that may be in your vehicle, but there is no reason to lie to him. Just say something like, "There is NOTHING illegal in this vehicle officer." If he asks again, say, "with all respect I already answered that." Don't give him anything else.

This is the best advice I have found here thus far. I've been stopped and searched once when I was coming back from a plinking trip by Riverside County Sheriff LEO's. Back then, I did not know how to handle being asked "Do you have any guns in the car?" Being naive as I was, I answered "Yes," believing simple honesty was the best policy. Moments after answering, I was told to step out of the car, was searched and handcuffed (I had the misfortune of wearing a black leather jacket, chains, and baggy pants), and sat in the back of a squad car while everything was searched. I had my Saiga 762, my Ithaca 37, Sigma 9mm, Universal M1 Carbine, and my Kel-Tec Su-16CA in the car, as well as a large amount of ammo. The whole damn ordeal was a royal pain in the ***. After everything was searched, the cops made nothing of wasting my time and I was off, paranoid about the "searching rights" of cops. If only I knew back then what I know now. I'll be ready and waiting for the next stop by LEO's this time.

Also, in my experience in that stop and search, it seemed that as long as the guns you have are not LOADED, it is just fine to have LOADED MAGAZINES and/or AMMUNITION in the same container as the UNLOADED gun (My Sigma was empty, but there were 4 loaded mags next to it in the same original box).

[Swatguy10_15]

Thats NOT great advice.. Yes, YOU ARE obligated to tell an officer you have weapons if he asks. Look up "officer safety doctrine" and all the associated case laws. If he asks you if you have any weapons, you give that kind of answer, he subsquently asks if he/she can search your vehicle and you reply no..He will find a reason to. At first hes limited to basically the interior of the vehicle "within arms reach"..If he is able to transition from suspicious to pc and then finds the weapons after youve said no..Now youre in kim chi..To what extent is arguable, but why go through the hassle?
Dont give them a reason to stop you for one.. Secondly, if youre asked a simple question,lying will not go over well..If youre weapons are legal and compliant then why lie/play word games? Stay legal and theres no issue even if you do have weapons.
No one seems to want to evaluate the reasoning behind the LEO's doing what they do. Youre in SO Cal, its a rough town. There is a HUGE gang problem and weapons are an everyday thing. Officers die because the wrong people have firearms.Civilians die, because of firearms in the wrong hands. Try placing yourself in theyre shoes... Traffic stops are THE most dangerous of all contacts with the public. Instead of just assuming theyre out to get you and that evil OLL, just talk to them like the humans that they are..The bullet buttons a pretty much accepted thing now..Stay safe, stay legal and all will be well.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Swatguy10_15

If he is able to transition from suspicious to pc and then finds the weapons after youve said no.

None of the advice on this thread has stated that we should lie to a cop and tell him "no" when we are in fact carrying weapons.

The advice is to avoid directly answering the question (which would be giving up our 4th and 5th rights) by clearly stating that we are carrying nothing illegal, and to refuse consent to search.

If he is asking for consent, he does not have RS or PC. If he has RS or PC, he will not ask for consent, and refusal of consent cannot be construed to RS or PC. The intimidation that many feel when faced by an officer makes them feel that refusal to consent would be used at RS.

If a person chooses to give up their 5th amendment rights and answer the question directly, then yes... it would be stupid and big trouble to lie.

[blackrazor]

Thats NOT great advice.. Yes, YOU ARE obligated to tell an officer you have weapons if he asks. Look up "officer safety doctrine" and all the associated case laws. If he asks you if you have any weapons, you give that kind of answer, he subsquently asks if he/she can search your vehicle and you reply no..He will find a reason to. At first hes limited to basically the interior of the vehicle "within arms reach"..If he is able to transition from suspicious to pc and then finds the weapons after youve said no..Now youre in kim chi..To what extent is arguable, but why go through the hassle?
Dont give them a reason to stop you for one.. Secondly, if youre asked a simple question,lying will not go over well..If youre weapons are legal and compliant then why lie/play word games? Stay legal and theres no issue even if you do have weapons.
No one seems to want to evaluate the reasoning behind the LEO's doing what they do. Youre in SO Cal, its a rough town. There is a HUGE gang problem and weapons are an everyday thing. Officers die because the wrong people have firearms.Civilians die, because of firearms in the wrong hands. Try placing yourself in theyre shoes... Traffic stops are THE most dangerous of all contacts with the public. Instead of just assuming theyre out to get you and that evil OLL, just talk to them like the humans that they are..The bullet buttons a pretty much accepted thing now..Stay safe, stay legal and all will be well.

Someone needs to go back to law school. Day 1, Lesson 1 re: criminal defense, you DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. PERIOD. It's not that hard folks. Do not give them directions to the grocery store. Do not discuss the weather. Do not talk to them about ANYTHING, ever. If they ask you questions, do not reply with anything other than "I do not consent to any search". There is simply no reason to speak, converse, discuss or reason with a police officer about anything outside of courtroom.

[lawnrevenge]

Originally Posted by blackrazor

Someone needs to go back to law school. Day 1, Lesson 1 re: criminal defense, you DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. PERIOD. It's not that hard folks. Do not give them directions to the grocery store. Do not discuss the weather. Do not talk to them about ANYTHING, ever. If they ask you questions, do not reply with anything other than "I do not consent to any search". There is simply no reason to speak, converse, discuss or reason with a police officer about anything outside of courtroom.

AMEN.