Help me understand state vs US constitution

[Capt. Speirs]

With Obama’s blatant contempt for the US Constitution, we will be fortunate if he doesn't get it abolished.

[TaxAnnihilator]

Orly? Just like that huh. Not a fan BHO, but this statement is of the kind of FUD I thought this site sought to dispel. I mean, how credible are we if when someone asks the difference between the state and federal constitutions and "won't matter for long because it's going away" is the answer?

Not to pick on you specifically, but there seems to be a lot of fear mongering here.

Or maybe your post could be supplemented to add context as to what rights your believe are being eroded on BHO's watch.

Originally Posted by Capt. Speirs

With Obama’s blatant contempt for the US Constitution, we will be fortunate if he doesn't get it abolished.

[locosway]

I've never taken a college level government course, but in HS I did take History. Home come this was never talked about? It seems that if these ideas of what really was, instead of what people think it was, were to be pushed, we would have less problems than we do.

Another reason I'm glad my kids are home schooled...

[Foulball]

The most interesting part of the BOR (to me at least) is the preamble, which clearly notes that the BOR was for the states themselves.

"The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added."

[TaxAnnihilator]

I got this in HS and College... sorry you did not. Put attending School Board Curriculum Setting Meetings on the To Do list when I become a parent.

Originally Posted by locosway

I've never taken a college level government course, but in HS I did take History. Home come this was never talked about? It seems that if these ideas of what really was, instead of what people think it was, were to be pushed, we would have less problems than we do.

Another reason I'm glad my kids are home schooled...

[TaxAnnihilator]

Oh, and you should look into showing your kids how California's constitution can be amended on the whim of only a small percentage of citizens. 8% of Voters in the past Gubernatorial election to get it on the ballot, then a majority of voters approving it! Then its there! There is a distinction for making major changes, thankfully.

The initiative and referendum process in California is ridiculously easy and detrimental to the fiscal health of the state, in my opinion.

[kf6tac]

Originally Posted by locosway

I've never taken a college level government course, but in HS I did take History. Home come this was never talked about? It seems that if these ideas of what really was, instead of what people think it was, were to be pushed, we would have less problems than we do.

Another reason I'm glad my kids are home schooled...

Aside from the fact that teaching civics isn't really a high point on the public school agenda these days, stuff like this really does have many layers of complexity and is never as simple as one might expect. To really get a good grasp of it one has to read a lot of the source material from that era, starting with at least the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers -- and for the most part that's going to go right over the heads of anyone without at least a high school level education these days. I read some of the Federalist Papers late in high school and got the general gist of it, but it wasn't until law school that I really grasped it (and even then, only after I took two courses with a professor who was an avid legal historian).

[locosway]

See, in school it was always the constitution and the BoR was set for the people. A clear list of their rights. Well, grown up and seeing that's not the case, it's disappointing to see that I was lied to in school. This view that people are limited in their rights is wrong, and is exactly how we got into the mess we're in today.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by locosway

A clear list of their rights. Well, grown up and seeing that's not the case, it's disappointing to see that I was lied to in school.

Not exactly. The Constitution and the BoR are not so much a list of our rights, as they are a list of restrictions on the government.

This view that people are limited in their rights is wrong, and is exactly how we got into the mess we're in today.

Bingo... and this is in part because people are taught (by government-run schools) that the BoR is in fact a list of our rights and are the only rights that we have.

"The Bill of Rights gives you this, anything else is a gift from the government"

Wrong. The Bill of Rights guarantees us this. Anything else is something that the government has not yet taken away.

And that is the whole crux of the separation of Church and State issue.
The BoR was not written to prevent us from worshipping as we please, it was written to prevent the government from establishing an official state religion such as the Church of England.

[locosway]

Originally Posted by Cokebottle

Not exactly. The Constitution and the BoR are not so much a list of our rights, as they are a list of restrictions on the government.

Bingo... and this is in part because people are taught (by government-run schools) that the BoR is in fact a list of our rights and are the only rights that we have.

"The Bill of Rights gives you this, anything else is a gift from the government"

Wrong. The Bill of Rights guarantees us this. Anything else is something that the government has not yet taken away.

And that is the whole crux of the separation of Church and State issue.
The BoR was not written to prevent us from worshipping as we please, it was written to prevent the government from establishing an official state religion such as the Church of England.

That's what I was saying...

In school I was taught that the BoR was my list of rights, and often you'd hear the argument "Show me where in the BoR's does it say you can do that".

There needs to be a fundamental change in how we're taught what our rights are, and how we got those rights. The ideas taught in schools (at least where I am) are wrong.