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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 09-12-2009, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaMasterTech View Post
I agree. This bill will effectively make ammunition that many people use impossible to aquire. How many gangbangers use rounds like .458 SOCOM as their prefered round for killing other fellow POS gangbangers? Local stores aren't going to stock anything other than typical ammo they currently stock, 9mm, 45ACP etc.

In fact, aren't the majority of gangbangers using .22lr anyway because it's so cheap and the guns can be so small? I thought I read that somewhere, could be wrong.
Thankfully, .458 SOCOM brass will take most of the .458 bullets that gun shops are likely to have (Thank you, lever guns!). But yeah, we'll probably never see any of the shops here in socal selling completed ammo in .458 SOCOM. I pity the gangbanger who breaks into MY house armed with a .22lr snubby. Or well, I would if I could get frangible .458 SOCOM bullets after AB 962 goes into effect... meh.
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  #82  
Old 09-12-2009, 9:15 PM
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Good to see that half the people in this thread haven't even read it and are just jumping to conclusions.
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  #83  
Old 09-12-2009, 9:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrykay View Post
The biggest gripe about this bill is the fear of high ammo cost. Most likely there will be some small increase in cost but it is not the end of the world.
Frankly the prices for ammo from all local stores where i am are insane even a slight increase will make it so i will never be able to afford to shoot my firearms at a range again.

only way to get sane priced ammo is to drive far out of Sacramento and Hope one of the sprawlmart's has the caliber you want in stock witch they never do anymore.

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  #84  
Old 09-13-2009, 8:42 AM
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I have no problems admitting my ammo is much more expensive than you can find it elsewhere. It isn't that I hate you guys and just want to rob you, I just can't get it as cheap as some people can get it and their overhead is lower.

If this thing passes, can you imagine the tremendous demand on handgun ammo between now and implementation? I already have guys coming in and buying all of my super expensive .40 S&W ammo out.

California could easily suck dry a large portion of the already small handgun ammo supply that still hasn't recovered from the Obama Panic.

Those of you thinking this won't be a big deal just don't get it. It will be a big deal. Unless you just plan on violating the law.

You might be lucky to find a gun store that has a single box of handgun ammo in. You are already lucky to find it. Yes the ammo is showing back up at the gun shows, but it won't be for long if this passes.

Call the governor Monday morning. Call him daily. E-mail him. Fax him. Get busy or be prepared for a really crappy deal.
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  #85  
Old 09-13-2009, 9:33 AM
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ok so whos with me in going up to SAc and have a visit with arny... maybe a large group on the "hill" may send a message that this should be vetod
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  #86  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:04 AM
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Im in san jose and will go, It needs to be organasized
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  #87  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:11 AM
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ok so whos with me in going up to SAc and have a visit with arny... maybe a large group on the "hill" may send a message that this should be vetod
On the face of it, a good idea.... but. On August 28th I attended the Tea party event at the Capitol. There were clearly 8-10 thousand people there (majority of estimates). The Sacramento Bee reported the crowd at around 1500-4000. In the crowd there were only a few RTKB protestors carrying squirt guns. The people inside the capitol did not hear one word of what that crowd was saying, they still passed this and other anti citizen legislation. They just don't care. It is highly unlikely that any semi-organized protest at the capitol would not find the governor in the building. It is also highly likely that the group would be totally ignored in the press, and possibly harassed by the CHP/State police, and certainly by the throngs of far left leaning State Workers who are there day in and day out. We my friend are the minority anywhere within a 5 mile radius of any urban center, much less the capitol. People of the government, for the government and by the government.
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  #88  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:32 AM
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The whole "cost a little more" is just the tip of the iceberg. Wal Mart already doesn't sell ammo in Contra Costa county, Alameda County, and the city of Sacramento. (Maybe more but these are the 3 area I know) They did this because the restrictions placed on sales in these areas. Do you this Wal mart is going to change its store layout and get the required licenses to sell ammo? I'd submit that nationwide stores like Big 5 and Wal Mart will stop selling ammo due to this. Its not only cost but availability.
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  #89  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:35 AM
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So, just to get this thread back into the direction that it originally started in, is the proposed language going to effectively restrict the sales of projectiles and magazines over the internet? Or is it merely going to create a higher duty of care as it concerns out of state retailers doing their due diligence as it relates to confirming that they are not selling to a "prohibited" person?

There was some debate early on in the thread about whether in fact this was it's design, but I did not see that a general consensus had been reached.
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  #90  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggSean View Post
So, just to get this thread back into the direction that it originally started in,
  1. is the proposed language going to effectively restrict the sales of projectiles and magazines over the internet?
  2. Or is it merely going to create a higher duty of care as it concerns out of state retailers doing their due diligence as it relates to confirming that they are not selling to a "prohibited" person?
I read it as the second.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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  #91  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:45 AM
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Thank you. This is how I interpreted the language as well. We shall see how it plays out in the real world.
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  #92  
Old 09-13-2009, 2:07 PM
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I read it that you can't buy projectiles without a face to face meeting and a thumbprint. Don't see at all how this is going to work over the internet. I'm absolutely sure that the intent was to kill internet transactions stone dead, and I think that you are kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.

And if there are loopholes, just look at the current situation. Out of state suppliers couldn't give a darn about learning our stupid laws. Like CTD, they'll just say "No sales to California."
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  #93  
Old 09-13-2009, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Glock22Fan View Post
I read it that you can't buy projectiles without a face to face meeting and a thumbprint. Don't see at all how this is going to work over the internet. I'm absolutely sure that the intent was to kill internet transactions stone dead, and I think that you are kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.

And if there are loopholes, just look at the current situation. Out of state suppliers couldn't give a darn about learning our stupid laws. Like CTD, they'll just say "No sales to California."
I don't think so - the FTF part is 12061(a)(3), and that [12060(b)] uses the (more or less reasonable) 'ammunition' definition of 12323. 12317 and 12318 don't apply to the FTF.

But this "Out of state suppliers couldn't give a darn about learning our stupid laws. Like CTD, they'll just say "No sales to California." is highly likely.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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  #94  
Old 09-13-2009, 4:59 PM
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maybe we should do a million 2nd amendment march on capital hill.............. heck even a thousand would prove something.

I mean we should have the same rights to do a march just like we all saw on TV a few years back.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.
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  #95  
Old 09-14-2009, 7:08 PM
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if it passes there will be more californias visiting arizona and nevada and spending cash there instead of spending it here, so it's pretty bad for the local economy as well
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  #96  
Old 09-14-2009, 7:18 PM
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I wonder if I can still order ammo from CMP?
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  #97  
Old 09-14-2009, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
I wonder if I can still order ammo from CMP?
Garand and .30 carbine ammo, yes (unless they classify .30 carbine as a handgun load because of the .30 carbine revolvers out there). As for .22LR, probably not unless you have a C&R+COE.
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  #98  
Old 09-14-2009, 8:00 PM
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I thought CMP had the federal trump card, AFIK, many of the garands they ship are not C&R
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  #99  
Old 09-14-2009, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
I thought CMP had the federal trump card, AFIK, many of the garands they ship are not C&R
They have a federal trump card from the standpoint of being able to ship rifles directly to non-FFLs which would typically be against federal law (as an aside I'm pretty sure all USGI Garands are C&R), but I don't think that's going to help them with a state law against shipping handgun ammo. Still, I doubt that the DOJ will try and interpret "handgun ammo" so broadly as to include .30 carbine or .30-06. If they do then CGF will be on them even more than usual.
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  #100  
Old 09-14-2009, 8:42 PM
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i have a response that would not be appropriate but the way our country was founded is the way we should go.
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  #101  
Old 09-14-2009, 9:32 PM
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would AB962 restrict internet and mail-order sales for rifle ammunition and components, or does it apply only to "handgun" ammunition and components?
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  #102  
Old 09-14-2009, 9:33 PM
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Well in that case you would need to get in touch with your friendly out of state mag repair kit dealer.

Is there anything in this law about manufacturing new 10rd mags from kits?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1 View Post
local dealers will only stock glock mags, 9mm, 223 and 45acp ammo but what about people who have more rare calibers like 38 super 10mm 357sig 5.7 etc

special ordering ammo and mags = extra $$ and long wait times
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  #103  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:48 AM
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This thread needs to be kicked up to the top again. I read most of the thread but it's also mostly off topic.

Is there any conclusion to the original question?
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  #104  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbopanda View Post
Doesn't that definition only apply to this subdivision, and not the part regarding internet sales?

(b) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a
firearm under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section
8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own,
possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
That definition is existing law, not part of 962. And it applies only inside its numbered section - there are no changes in 962 regarding magazines or reloading things.
From these posts, it appears that handgun ammo is the only restriction. No restriction on reloading components or anything else. Correct?
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  #105  
Old 10-09-2009, 4:43 PM
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'(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks. '

WHAT A CROCK OF KRAAP--making up arbitrary definitions of what 'ammunition' is .....these aholes need to use a frikkin dictionary and actually UNDERSTAND what ammunition is.... this bill should be tossed out on this blatant inability to properly write a discription and defining of what is what..and including words and items into a 'definition' of what is 'ammunition'

I take these are the same writers who are constantly calling 'taxes' 'fees' so that they dont have to put it to a public vote and just continue to make life hell for us in this broken and failing state.....

So i guess if you put a spitwad in your .22 and use a blank or maybe a 22 nail gun charge to fire it, you are breaking the law....

Guess BP is now going to be banned.....er..regulated....more
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  #106  
Old 10-09-2009, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledReaper View Post
'(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks. '

WHAT A CROCK OF KRAAP--making up arbitrary definitions of what 'ammunition' is .....these aholes need to use a frikkin dictionary and actually UNDERSTAND what ammunition is.... this bill should be tossed out on this blatant inability to properly write a discription and defining of what is what..and including words and items into a 'definition' of what is 'ammunition'

I take these are the same writers who are constantly calling 'taxes' 'fees' so that they dont have to put it to a public vote and just continue to make life hell for us in this broken and failing state.....

So i guess if you put a spitwad in your .22 and use a blank or maybe a 22 nail gun charge to fire it, you are breaking the law....

Guess BP is now going to be banned.....er..regulated....more
People keep finding that. Except for the "blanks" part, that language is not part of AB 962 - that's existing law.

When changing part of PC, the bill has to write out the whole section the way it would read if signed by the gov.

Don't disagree about the Crock analysis, though.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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  #107  
Old 10-09-2009, 6:43 PM
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So, just to be absolutely clear, reloading components will not be unaffected by AB962? I only ask for clarification since bwiese has posted that projectiles for reloading would be restricted:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...56&postcount=3

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Randall,

Unsure if that's the final bill up for vote/veto by Gov: the actual 'enrolled' bill, with Legislative Counsel's digest, is at

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/..._enrolled.html

1. Yep, the bill's orig. face-to-face limit of 50rds, etc. was amended out shortly before passage. Perhaps DeLeon & crew were trying to bait support (or lack of opposition) from non-NRA/CRPA gun groups.

2. It does include reloading componentry (at least bullets).

3. Publicly, NSSF's arm in CA, CAFR, is opposing this. NSSF has sent email blasts too. Unsure if CAFR is making noise about this trying to restore their reputation, etc.... but their puzzling behavior about trivial SB41 'mouse bait' indicates their ability to understand how we "play ball" in CA is limited.

4. Although this is currently really a mail-order ammo bill with some dress-up about prohibited persons/minors, the infrastructure is in place to easily drop in a few lines banning or severely limiting F2F private sales/transfers.
This needs clarification, please!
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  #108  
Old 10-09-2009, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
So, just to be absolutely clear, reloading components will not be unaffected by AB962? I only ask for clarification since bwiese has posted that projectiles for reloading would be restricted:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...56&postcount=3



This needs clarification, please!
I don't get why this is difficult. All you have to do is read the bill.

The bill proposes to add 12060 :
Quote:
12060. As used in this article, the following terms apply:
(a) "Department" means the Department of Justice.
(b) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in
subdivision (a) of Section 12323, but excluding ammunition designed
and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section
921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition
does not include blanks.
12060 (proposed) says ammunition is defined in (existing) 12323 (a) :
Quote:
12323. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall
apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in
pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed
upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.
Further down is the FTF language:
Quote:
SEC. 7. Section 12318 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer
of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A
violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Bona fide evidence of identity" means a document issued by a
federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or
agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle
operator's license, state identification card, identification card
issued to a member of the Armed Forces, or other form of
identification that bears the name, date of birth, description, and
picture of the person.
(2) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in
subdivision (a) of Section 12323,
but excluding ammunition designed
and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section
921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition
does not include blanks.
That's it. That's what the bill would regulate - handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Full stop.


Now, the bill ALSO adds 12317:
Quote:
SEC. 6. Section 12317 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
12317. (a) Any person, corporation, or firm who supplies,
delivers, sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to
any person who he or she knows or using reasonable care should know
is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under his or her
custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to
paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316, is guilty
of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year, or a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(b) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be
construed as restricting the application of any other law. However,
an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and
another provision of law shall not be punished under more than one
provision.
(c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.
(and I overstated the 'existing law' in my post above - apologies, and see below) THAT section makes it a crime to sell all the things in (c) to ineligible persons. But it does NOT 'regulate' the sale of such things; those are NOT subject to the FTF rules, the fingerprint, etc.

And that (c) definition is a repeat of existing 12316(b)(2), which regulates sales to what looks to me to be another statement of ineligible persons.:
Quote:
(b) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm
under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103
of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have
under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded
ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence.
(ETA: the distinction: existing 12316 makes it a crime for the ineligible person; proposed 12317 makes it a crime to sell to those ineligible persons)

This whole piece of garbage is another example of incredible lack of clarity in legislation, not to mention it has no hope of doing anything its supporters claim for it.

So stop worrying about what it might do, and continue to bug Arnold to veto the darn thing.
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Last edited by Librarian; 10-09-2009 at 7:57 PM..
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  #109  
Old 10-09-2009, 7:19 PM
YubaRiver YubaRiver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrykay View Post
I do not see that as a problem. I believe that any full line dealer will see the light and stock 95% of hand gun calibers. The FFL's however may go a little less in the rifle ammo. The biggest gripe about this bill is the fear of high ammo cost. Most likely there will be some small increase in cost but it is not the end of the world.
I hold higher hopes that the Governor will veto the Cow Place Bill.
No one within an hours drive of where I lived stocks any reloading supplies
anymore and only one place will do the transfer for a firearm. I suppose
I could drive 3 hours to Sacramento to purchase stuff, but when their are
shortages like now, even that won't work. Try buying large rifle primers.
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  #110  
Old 10-09-2009, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impactco View Post
This needs clarification, please!
Bullets and reloading supplies are not affected. AB 962 uses the EXISTING definition of "Handgun Ammunition" from 12323:

""Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in
pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed
upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles."

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12323.html

What is probably freaking people out is finding stuff like this in AB 962:

" For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks."

AHHHHHHH!!! It says bullets, and cartridges, and magazines, and all kinds of stuff that isn't "ammo"! AHHHHHHHH!!!

Paraphrasing from Pulp Fiction: "Jules, chill those gunners out!"

Relaxxxxx......

What some folks have ignored was this little phrase up in the front of the nasty/scary text: "For purposes of this subdivision"

Those two subdivisions say you can't do things like provide ammo and ammo-like stuff to people who are prohibited from owning firearms. We wouldn't do that anyway, and don't do it now, because we're law-abiding gun owners. Right? Right. So no worries there.

Yeah it's bad, but it ain't quite as bad as some of the rumors make it out to be. You'll legally be able to buy bullets over the Internet IF there is anyone willing to sell and ship them to you. That's the big IF. The FUD will hit the gun supply folks too.

Here is the text of the new/proposed laws in AB 962:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bil..._enrolled.html
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Last edited by GrizzlyGuy; 10-09-2009 at 7:30 PM.. Reason: Jules, not Vincent
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  #111  
Old 10-09-2009, 9:44 PM
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Thanks very much.
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  #112  
Old 10-10-2009, 8:37 AM
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Jeezus!

If we have this much mis-undertsanding of our own State's Law, how can we
expect out of state vendors to undertsntand this crap?? They won't, just like
they didn't with the interstate gun/mag B.S.

We're going to see California banned by even more Vendors now.
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  #113  
Old 10-10-2009, 9:04 AM
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Yup, a lot of those vendors would take the play-it-safe route like Cabelas. Legal or not, it will be harder to get reloading supplies and even long gun ammo.

Arnie needs to come through for us and veto this blasted thing!
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  #114  
Old 10-10-2009, 7:49 PM
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Librarian and Grizzly Man:
I do not presume to know as much as either of you on the interpretation of 962. That said, section 12017 newly added to the PC states:

12317. (a) Any person, corporation, or firm who supplies,
delivers, sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to
any person who he or she knows or using reasonable care should know
is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under his or her
custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to
paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316, is guilty
of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not
exceeding one year, or a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars
($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

And then goes on to say: (c) For purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but
not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

How will any out of sate vendor figure out who in the shipping and delivery chain is not a person banned from handling ammunition? They can't know every person in UPS or FED EX, or even the US postal service. They simply can't excersize reasonable caution and thus are subject to prosecution.
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  #115  
Old 10-10-2009, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallshot13 View Post
How will any out of sate vendor figure out who in the shipping and delivery chain is not a person banned from handling ammunition? They can't know every person in UPS or FED EX, or even the US postal service. They simply can't excersize reasonable caution and thus are subject to prosecution.
The same way they know now, since it's illegal under Federal law ( 18 USC 922 (a)(6) and (c) ) to lie about one's prohibited status to a vendor and for anyone to sell ammunition to prohibited persons.

But would out of state vendors want to deal with CA law on top of Federal? It's a good guess that they would not.
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- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #116  
Old 10-10-2009, 9:08 PM
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Kudos to Librarian for de-FUDing analysis.
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  #117  
Old 10-11-2009, 3:10 AM
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I think that with direction from some of the fine folks here, the solution is simple. Online reloading component vendors would be able to simply add the prohibited person language to the disclaimers and legal mumbo-jumbo that already exists to protect them from liability for under-21 handgun ammo sales. Many sites already have a checkbox for "I certify that I am over 21 years of age and not prohibited from purchasing ammunition", so I don't see it affecting component sales significantly.

But he needs to veto it anyway. 21 hours left.
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  #118  
Old 10-11-2009, 9:29 AM
smallshot13 smallshot13 is offline
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Thank you Librarian:
Now, how will an out of state vendor know the name of every dock handler, sorter, truck driver, delivery person in the chain of delivery, and how will they have time to check out each and every one of them by asking them the question? I think your last statement is agreeing that there will be incentive to not sell to CA State residents any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence. Hopefully we will get a veto and this discussion will be moot. If not, hopefully this will not be the prevailing interpretation.
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  #119  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallshot13 View Post
Thank you Librarian:
Now, how will an out of state vendor know the name of every dock handler, sorter, truck driver, delivery person in the chain of delivery, and how will they have time to check out each and every one of them by asking them the question?
Evidently there is some mechanism satisfactory to keep them in business; a similar restriction is on shipping alcoholic beverages (with fewer disqualifiers than ammo, of course) and that seems to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallshot13 View Post
I think your last statement is agreeing that there will be incentive to not sell to CA State residents any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with deadly consequence.
Yes, I agree that's fairly likely. And supporters of this mess are well aware of it.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #120  
Old 10-12-2009, 12:50 PM
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The only way I know to prove your Not Prohibited is a Certificate of Exemption or Law Enforcement Officer's ID.

Am I right? I'm so confused my head hurts - I need some coffee with my Wild Turkey sweetener - Three fingers of sweetener & three fingers of coffee
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