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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:16 AM
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Arrow Why leaving California is not an option for 2A rights supporters.

Like many here, the ever expanding firearms laws in CA, coupled with the high state income tax, high state sales tax, insane property values, and other state meddling has me ready to pack up and leave. While financial reasons may eventually force my relocation out of the state, I will stay here as long as possible on 2A grounds, and will continue to support my brothers here even if I am forced to relocate. Here is why:

CA is already a very anti-gun “liberal” state (I say “liberal” in quotes as the meaning of this word has completely changed. At one time a “liberal” was someone who felt government should have minimal influence in our lives. Think of the word “Libertarian”. But I digress…). As population density continues to increase fewer people will be involved with firearms, big city crime will increase, and more people will view guns as being something only cops and criminals use.

As gun owners flee California, aniti’s will have an easier time restricting 2A rights and making CA a model for gun control. “Fine” you say, because you’ve decided never to set foot in California again. Unfortunately California is the most populous state in the nation – which means it controls more seats in the US congress than any other state. It means California has more Electoral College votes than any state in the nation. And this says nothing about the cultural influence California has on the nation (think Hollywood, trips to Disneyland, SF, Yosemite, etc.) The old saying that trends start in California and move East has never been truer than now.

If the anti-gun climate is allowed to thrive in California it will eventually spread to the rest of the country. We can not allow this to happen. This is not about defending a hobby or the fact that you really want a particular firearm. This is about setting limits on what government can and can not control in our personal lives. If the government (local, state, or federal) is allowed to prevent you from defending yourself or control what personal property you can or can not posses, then there is no limit to what aspects of your life a government can control.

Make no misstate – this is a battle over basic freedom and fundamental liberties and California is the front line. We must diligently fight this battle on the soap box and the ballet box, because the last alternative (the ammo box) is too unthinkable.


Introduce someone new to the shooting hobby and make them aware of 2A issues. Talk to your non-gun friends about fundamental rights and the importance of limiting government. Support a political candidate with “Libertarian” views. Call or write your legislature and make sure they know you oppose their nanny government legislation. Make a donation to the Cal guns foundation.

Despite issues like AB962, we are poised to win this war. Heller, incorporation, and a fundamental legal chain of dominoes are set to fall upon the foes of liberty. This is the time for action, not despair.
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:26 AM
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For me leaving CA is not an option.

However, it is true that if all 2A supporters exodus CA, the gungrabbers will become emboldened. The fall of CA is a precursor to the fall of the nation.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:34 AM
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"The fall of CA is a precursor to the fall of the nation."

Amen, brother. I have e-mailed multiple people on GB who say they won't do CA sales. The line is always the same: "Move to a free state."

As stated above quite eloquently, moving is an option for only so long, and then you have to stand your ground and fight. Isn't it ironic that gunnies would recommend tucking tail and heading for the hills?
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:35 AM
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Let it fall.Time to reset.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:55 AM
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My family came to San Francisco in the 1870's, I'll be dammed if I let a bunch of buffoons run me out, I come from a long line of fighters. I dream of the day the big one hits and all fearful fools that have turned this state into a (honey pot) run for their little lives.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:56 AM
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It was mainly the financial and tax stuff that drove me out. It was actually fun playing cat and mouse with the DOJ over gun stuff.

CARB and the AQMDs had a lot more to do with my leaving than gun stuff.
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:08 PM
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It was mainly the financial and tax stuff that drove me out. It was actually fun playing cat and mouse with the DOJ over gun stuff.

CARB and the AQMDs had a lot more to do with my leaving than gun stuff.
CARB is a pain in the you know where, there is a web site called killcarb.org, long over due. and then California gun control, or the lack of it. We need everyone we can get and it sound like you were a good man to have in a fight, and now I find out your AWOL.
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Old 08-29-2009, 1:10 PM
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Let it fall.Time to reset.
As optimistic as I have been about the future of the current cases, and future cases as well, I have also been inclined to think this way in the past. Sometimes it's necessary to "reboot". In this case, a cold one would be necessary. This time, however, I believe strongly that Boxer being on her way out might pick things up, and set the course for positive reinforcements.

Erik.
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Old 08-29-2009, 1:19 PM
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Let it fall.Time to reset.
As optimistic as I have been about the future of the current cases, and future cases as well, I have also been inclined to think this way in the past. Sometimes it's necessary to "reboot". In this case, a cold one would be necessary. This time, however, I believe strongly that Boxer being on her way out might pick things up, and set the course for positive reinforcements.

Erik.
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Old 08-29-2009, 1:25 PM
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I dream of the day the big one hits and all fearful fools that have turned this state into a (honey pot) run for their little lives.
AMEN!
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Old 08-29-2009, 1:27 PM
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Default It needs to crash, and it will.

I was born here 66 years ago. I have watched the deterioration of this state (the infestation by liberals), as many others have. Our state politicians live in la la land. They will not face facts. They will continue to keep their heads in the sand. They will continue to spend us into oblivion.

These idiots in Sacramento will eventually destroy it once and for all. Hopefully common sense will rise from the ashes.
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Old 08-29-2009, 1:54 PM
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I don't think many 2A Californians are moving out of state. Sure it looks like it when you see gun forum people post that they are moving but there are many others that are leaving that would never fight for the 2A. Everyone I know that has moved out in the last 5 years has not moved due to the lack of gun rights. They moved because CA is falling apart. No way to do business, no way to educate thier kids, no way to keep money.
The ones that leave CA will remember how bad it was and will fight harder if any CA legislation enters thier state. At least I will.
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Old 08-29-2009, 1:59 PM
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Why on earth would I leave? I'm winning!
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Old 08-29-2009, 2:29 PM
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Everyone I know that has moved out in the last 5 years has not moved due to the lack of gun rights. They moved because CA is falling apart. No way to do business, no way to educate thier kids, no way to keep money.
Also note, that lots of anti-gun people have moved out of CA for these reasons.

It's sort of the reason why parts of NV (Clark County), CO (Denver) and WA (Seattle) are starting to look a lot like CA, in terms of the anti-gun stuff that's happening there.
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Old 08-29-2009, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by radioman View Post
My family came to San Francisco in the 1870's, I'll be dammed if I let a bunch of buffoons run me out, I come from a long line of fighters. I dream of the day the big one hits and all fearful fools that have turned this state into a (honey pot) run for their little lives.
I like the honey pot allusion, seeing as how our state flag has a bear on it...
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:04 PM
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Default Stand and fight.

We have to draw the line and say no somewhere.

Stalin refused to surrender Stalingrad, against overwhelming odds, the Russians turned the War around.

We are losing because most gun owners just won't fight.All of us are in California for a reason.

Sure we have problems, but we also have creative people who can fix problems.

I realize many are natural pessimists, that nothing can be done. If you believe nothing can be done, guess what, nothing will be done.

The fact is on gun issues we are going to win and other freedom issues will follow shortly.

California will turn around because it has to.

Nicki
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:25 PM
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I want out of CA for some many other reasons than the gun laws, although, those really do add fuel to the fire.
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:41 PM
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I like the honey pot allusion, seeing as how our state flag has a bear on it...
Our state bear was killed off.
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You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:43 PM
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Our state bear was killed off.
They're still out there... I know, I've crossed a few in the Sierra Nevada's.
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:48 PM
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They're still out there... I know, I've crossed a few in the Sierra Nevada's.
Trinity Alps too... It's far better up here than Wyoming or New Mexico or Texas, California bashers just cant come to grips wit dat.
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:50 PM
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They're still out there... I know, I've crossed a few in the Sierra Nevada's.
There are no California Grizzlies.
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You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:51 PM
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I want to leave California for a number of reasons only one of which has anything to do with gun rights. I don't mean to offend any hardcore California lovers on here but I really hate living here... and the main reason is beyond anyone's control... I feel like I'm dying every summer because of the heat and humidity alone.

I wish everyone luck in this battle but hopefully I won't still be living here by this time next year.
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Old 08-29-2009, 3:53 PM
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I want to leave California for a number of reasons only one of which has anything to do with gun rights. I don't mean to offend any hardcore California lovers on here but I really hate living here... and the main reason is beyond anyone's control... I feel like I'm dying every summer because of the heat and humidity alone.

I wish everyone luck in this battle but hopefully I won't still be living here by this time next year.
Heat & humidity in Ca. ? By all means move to Atlanta or Houston or Jacksonville & enjoy .
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Old 08-29-2009, 5:00 PM
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I have to agree with O.P. all the way. But I am still leaving in 6 years when I retire and not soon enough. I am tired of them restricting my motocross bikes because they cause smog, I am sick of them restricting my gold dredging because its harmfull to the made up ideas of the tree huggers, I am sick of them never stopping at anti-gun laws, high taxes, making me pay for those that dont want to work, ect... It WAS a great state at one time, but not any more.
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Old 08-29-2009, 5:04 PM
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I have to agree with O.P. all the way. But I am still leaving in 6 years when I retire and not soon enough. I am tired of them restricting my motocross bikes because they cause smog, I am sick of them restricting my gold dredging because its harmfull to the made up ideas of the tree huggers, I am sick of them never stopping at anti-gun laws, high taxes, making me pay for those that dont want to work, ect... It WAS a great state at one time, but not any more.
Some of best childhood memories was up above Downeyville, panning for gold with my Grandpa.
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Old 08-29-2009, 5:15 PM
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I can buy a house for half the price in Nevada. Car Registration is cheaper by 1/5th. The cost of living is lower. I am going to leave this state because it costs to much to live here. Being able to exorcise my gun rights with out fear of arrest or confiscation is a great bonus.
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Old 08-29-2009, 5:43 PM
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I was born and raised here. This state has gone so far down the toilet, it is likely past the tipping point. Kind of like when a house is falling apart, you can't just patch it up or rebuild it until the rotted foundation is repaired, or replaced. I love CA, but the grass truly is greener elsewhere. If it were as simple as people say it is to fix, I would stay. Its not the state it was 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

Truth is its not going to be easy, or maybe even possible to fix at this point. I'm not one to back down to a fight or a challenge, in fact I like them, makes me work harder, but I also know when to throw in the towel. First you have to get rid of the liberals and Dems that would rather throw money at something then fix the problem. Thats key. Then you would have to get bills to pass to undo the mess of socialism in this state. Then you would have to kick out the illegals, which at this point have over run southern CA so bad, no measure would likely ever pass and be implemented due to the make up of the voting population (Antonio Villarigosa comes to mind, worse possible candidate but chosen by the voting population due to ethnicity).

Then you have to get businesses to come back. With disability, taxes, laws and lawsuits its going to be an uphill battle there too.

My reasons are these in no specific order:
Cost of living
over crowding and continual development
taxes
CARB
Flood of illegals waging war on us in "reconquista" trying to retake the south west.
California's "welfare state" stance.
weather
Gun laws.
air quality

I will fight the fight while I'm here, but when the spousal unit is done with school in a few years, we are taking our money and jobs elsewhere.
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Old 08-29-2009, 5:43 PM
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Being able to exorcise my gun rights with out fear of arrest or confiscation is a great bonus.
If you move to Clark County, get involved with the pro-gun movement out there. Because, the fight there has already begun.

With the lawsuit to stop development on the Clark County Shooting Park, the harrassment of open carry, the handgun registration requirement, the loss of the CCW permit exempting you from a NICS check for a firearms transfers from a FFL dealer, the Clark County 3 day waiting period for handguns and the closure of areas for shooting due to "development". Clark County is starting to become a lot like SoCal East.
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Old 08-29-2009, 6:01 PM
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old saying that trends start in California and move East has never been truer than now.

If the anti-gun climate is allowed to thrive in California it will eventually spread to the rest of the country.
While I think this was, and is true, and not just for California but NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc... These places started some ridiculous trends, which have slowly spilled out to the rest of the country.

However it seems our population has grown more aware that these laws really don't do any good. Sure, there are more VOCAL people that are anti-gun, but more and more average joes who don't even like guns are against another AWB and tighter restrictions.

What we have to fight are those politicians who purposefully LIE, not even smear the truth, but LIE. They lie and say that most citizens want another AWB and tighter restrictions, they lie and say that the bans worked, etc...

With pretty much everyone accessing the internet, it's hard for these antis to skew the truth. And anyone who puts any thought into it can see the truth past their arguments. And I truly believe my fellow Americans will continue to come to our side. Maybe I'm just being optimistic.
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Old 08-29-2009, 6:10 PM
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I like the honey pot allusion, seeing as how our state flag has a bear on it...
($h*t hole) is that better?
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Old 08-29-2009, 6:36 PM
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I want more than anything to stay IN California. I absolutely love this state and would like to spend my life here. However, the state is going down quickly, and I truly hope in the next year there is a hard reset, or at least a steady reversal toward the better. As it sits, there is very little money to be made in CA doing what I do. It's been a slow decline for the last year and a half, but it'll get much worse before it gets better. I keep looking around thinking it'll be better in other states, but the fact is I'm not so sure it would be. There's very few states I would move to, but in one of those states, New Mexico, the type of business I do is almost just as slow. Difference is the cost of living is half what it is in CA. So if I'm making half the money I normally do, it's much easier to get by when expenses are so low. We shall see. So the gun issue is thin icing on some very thick cake, but that icing is just not existent in most other states.....even though those other states are having similar problems (at least the ones I'd consider living in) as CA.
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Old 08-29-2009, 6:37 PM
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California is a lost cause once the Ammo restriction bill pass. I'm leaving for Arizona I got family there so they will welcome me with open arms. Arizona has the numbers right now to thwart any restrictive gun laws, it has a Republican Governor not like the Rhino we in CA. have, but more important it has state reps. who uphold the Second Am. and cherish it. I will join any and all organizations and contribute to them to combat California like gun laws from taking hold in AZ. CA. is a cesspool of Democratic rule the once Golden state has lost its luster and people are leaving the state in droves!!!!
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Old 08-29-2009, 8:13 PM
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I don't buy the argument that Commiefornia will "lead the way" to nationwide gun confiscation. There are TOO MANY examples that prove the contrary. Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C., to name a few. Commiefornia may go down kicking and screaming, but we already HAVE 40 "Shall Issue" states, and even the 57(?) communist electoral votes cannot override the will of the majority of the country.

The little fights are getting all of the press, but you NEVER see any news about states turning Shall Issue, or LOC or LCC being legislated into action in the other states. The brain-dead libs will not put ANY pro-gun news out for people to see or read.

Besides, if things get that bad here, I'll be joining the armies formed in the other states to attack California and b*tch-slap these sub-creatures into submission.

I CANNOT WAIT to move OUT of this rancid bastion of liberalism with it's water rationing, crime, high taxes, property value drops, infestation of illegals, crappy roads and insane government. If someone would buy my house and business TOMORROW, I'd be out of California before Sept. 1st!

No, I'll be there to fight the good fight for the 2A in another state, but I see this state as a lost cause, a state that will only begrudgingly fall into line with the rest of the country when the 2A fight is WON in the rest of the country. For once, Commiefornia will FOLLOW the lead of the other states, or suffer the consequences.

A census taker showed up at my door with a laptop after I repeatedly told them to pound sand about every question beyond the number of people living in my home, and their age and gender. She told me, "You must answer these questions so that we can insure that you are properly represented in Sacramento." I told her, "I'm CONSERVATIVE. how many of those 57 electoral votes represented me in the last election? GTF off of my property you commie b***h! She gave me her best smug liberal smirk and left.

I'm supporting Jay LaSuer for Sheriff, but I'll probably be out of California before he is elected. This state has NOTHING to offer a free man.

Last edited by gravedigger; 08-29-2009 at 8:15 PM..
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2009, 8:20 PM
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I have a growing family to support and I can't afford to buy a place big enough that's also within a reasonable commute distance from my job.

So I'm making plans to have my employer relocate me where I can afford a big house on 8 acres of mountain foothills. Low taxes (and a taxpayer's bill of rights), much lower cost of living, less traffic, backdoor access to hunting: these are the reasons I'm leaving. Shall-issue CCW permits, no BB's, no roster, Class III weapons, etc. are just icing on the cake.
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Old 08-29-2009, 8:33 PM
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I just got back from Jack In The Box, or should I say Joaquin En La Caja. Not one person spoke English there, customers as well as workers.

As soon as I am able to leave. Adios California.
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Old 08-29-2009, 8:37 PM
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Leaving just when we're about to start winning big. Cowardice?

-Gene
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Old 08-29-2009, 8:43 PM
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Such as with AB962?...
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Old 08-29-2009, 9:00 PM
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I landed here in the early 80's and have had a great time making a few dollars and debauching (almost) to my heart's content. But I never really thought of remaining after I retire. My family has lived in NH & MA for many generations, my plan has always been to return & when I do it will be NH and not MA - I'm a little tired of having to look north to the good state(s). But, I'm not yet an old fart, so I suppose I'll be here for quite a while.
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Old 08-29-2009, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk1 View Post
Such as with AB962?...
W's:
OLL
End of new AWs being listed.
Actual AW, optionally an infraction.
Microstamping unimplementable.
Lead ban stopped where it is.

Likely soon W's:
Carry permits for all.
End of the Handgun roster.
(some other tricks we have up our sleeve.)

Likely L's:
Annoying restrictions on internet ammo purchases.
Records of ammo purchases at retail kept.

Future W's:
Ammo ban via internet may violate FAAA, Commerce Clause.

I like how things look from here.

-Gene
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Old 08-29-2009, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post

Future W's:
Ammo ban via internet may violate FAAA, Commerce Clause.

I like how things look from here.

-Gene
yep. Last time around AB1274, the mail order ammo ban, was vetoed by Arnie due to it being a barrier to interstate commerce, and AB962 contains that clause again, so it should be a point we can corner the governor into veto lest he wants to be labeled anti-market.
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