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  #1  
Old 07-05-2009, 3:14 PM
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Default Turners gets robbed!

Just came across this, not sure if it already has been posted but check it out anyway. I'm not sure if the employees were armed but probably not.



If that doesn't work go here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcSp4SJAsOE

Last edited by pksbshp; 07-05-2009 at 3:31 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2009, 3:15 PM
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Call 911!
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2009, 3:23 PM
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Default old news

This happened on 05-10-2007.

Turners' policy is employees can not be armed.

The same crew that robbed the Riverside Turners, also robbed the San Bernardino Turners a month after the Riverside robbery.
However, the outcome of the San Bernardino robbery was different from the Riverside robbery.
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Old 07-05-2009, 3:29 PM
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its a dupe, but man, why do they even carry in there then????????? Just to put on a show to actual customers I guess.
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2009, 3:32 PM
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wow. it had to be a long time ago if there were actually guns in stock!
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2009, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ams30gts View Post
wow. it had to be a long time ago if there were actually guns in stock!
HA!
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2009, 3:49 PM
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Goes to show that carrying is useless (even though they weren't apparently in this case) if the robber draws first and/or has more powerful weapons.

If someone has a .45 in your face, you're not gonna reach for your gun.
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Old 07-05-2009, 4:06 PM
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concealed carry ftw. That place should have a SHTF button for the police. Targetmasters in milpitas is like 15 secs away from a police station
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Goes to show that carrying is useless (even though they weren't apparently in this case) if the robber draws first and/or has more powerful weapons.

If someone has a .45 in your face, you're not gonna reach for your gun.
I think it depends on the situation and the "stakes."

For example, if someone has a 45 in my face and tells me to get into the trunk of a car, that would cross my line. YMMV.

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  #10  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:14 PM
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What happened at the Bernadino Turners?
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Noobert View Post
What happened at the Bernadino Turners?
IIRC, 5-0 caught them in the act. There was a pursuit and a shootout. A couple of the bad guys ended up dead.

edit: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...cal&id=5363436
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:20 PM
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Hello. This is year 2009, have we met?
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:35 PM
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Death penalty of they are caught. (wishes)
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  #14  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:48 PM
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I know it takes forever to do a DROS at Turner's, but that's a pretty extreme alternative...
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post

If someone has a .45 in your face, you're not gonna reach for your gun.
You're right. I'm gonna take their 45 away.
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  #16  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Goes to show that carrying is useless (even though they weren't apparently in this case) if the robber draws first and/or has more powerful weapons.

If someone has a .45 in your face, you're not gonna reach for your gun.
Wow, that garbage reads like it came right off the Brady Campaign website. wth.
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2009, 4:58 PM
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Welcome to two years ago.
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  #18  
Old 07-05-2009, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Goes to show that carrying is useless (even though they weren't apparently in this case) if the robber draws first and/or has more powerful weapons.

If someone has a .45 in your face, you're not gonna reach for your gun.
Speak for yourself.
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2009, 5:55 PM
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Wow, that garbage reads like it came right off the Brady Campaign website. wth.
What chance would you have when a guy has his finger on the trigger and your gun is still in the holster?

Maybe if you had a death wish that would make more sense.
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2009, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
What chance would you have when a guy has his finger on the trigger and your gun is still in the holster?

Maybe if you had a death wish that would make more sense.
You haven't seen a gun takeaway, have you?
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  #21  
Old 07-05-2009, 6:40 PM
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You haven't seen a gun takeaway, have you?
LOL...
Wow... thats just... I've got nothin.
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2009, 6:42 PM
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I'll demonstrate it for you if you ever stick your gun in my face.
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  #23  
Old 07-05-2009, 6:55 PM
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  #24  
Old 07-05-2009, 6:57 PM
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I'll demonstrate it for you if you ever stick your gun in my face.
Woah woah woah. Settle down there. I'm no six foot four cage fighter who also knows gun fu. For all I know, all those John Wu films were your documentaries
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  #25  
Old 07-05-2009, 7:00 PM
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You don't have to be a martial artist to do that. It's a 3-step technique you can learn in five minutes.
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  #26  
Old 07-05-2009, 7:08 PM
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You don't have to be a martial artist to do that. It's a 3-step technique you can learn in five minutes.
damn dude your bad ***..
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2009, 7:14 PM
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Redondo Beach Turners was robbed also within the last year.
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  #28  
Old 07-05-2009, 7:35 PM
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If employees were allowed to actually defend themselves this would have most likely turned out different. There are numerous employees inside a Turner's on any give day. The same can be said of allowing a shall issue CCW law in California. Criminals are less likely to rob an armed victim because the risk is greater. There is no guarantee that because you cooperate that you get to live.
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  #29  
Old 07-05-2009, 7:47 PM
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If employees were allowed to actually defend themselves this would have most likely turned out different. There are numerous employees inside a Turner's on any give day. The same can be said of allowing a shall issue CCW law in California. Criminals are less likely to rob an armed victim because the risk is greater. There is no guarantee that because you cooperate that you get to live.
Yes it would of turned out different with dead people. If you were there picking up your gun and this went down, do you want to be caught in the middle between gang bangers and gun counter guys shooting it out? The outcome was great. Dirtbags eventually ended up ventalated thanks to SBPD and no employee or customer was hurt or killed.
Fast foreward about a year later, Centerfire Firearms was robbed at gun point. ALL employee carried concealed but were still overwhelmed. It didnt do much good at that moment.
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Old 07-05-2009, 7:59 PM
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he did the right thing
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  #31  
Old 07-05-2009, 8:20 PM
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Concealed or not, Armed or not, That was a strong arm robbery. Theres not much you can do unless you see it coming and get the jump.....On a different note, having a CCW and being armed in the street is different than a business setting. In the street you can be more alert...

My cousin had a business years ago in a some what shady area....It was a tire shop...He carried a zip gun in his pocket/hand and had a Shotgun underneath the desk...........
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Old 07-05-2009, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cortayack View Post
Concealed or not, Armed or not, That was a strong arm robbery. Theres not much you can do unless you see it coming and get the jump.....On a different note, having a CCW and being armed in the street is different than a business setting. In the street you can be more alert...

My cousin had a business years ago in a some what shady area....It was a tire shop...He carried a zip gun in his pocket/hand and had a Shotgun underneath the desk...........
I think you mean that was an armed robbery. strong arm is when they have no weapon and just take things on force or fear alone
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Old 07-05-2009, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
You're right. I'm gonna take their 45 away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
I'll demonstrate it for you if you ever stick your gun in my face.
Chill out there rambo, your cyber-weewee isn't being questioned....


BTW, as for the take-away, yes there are moves for it.
One of my shooting friends is a Danzan-Ryu Sensei and even he says it is a very last resort move.
I think I'll take his word on it...
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2009, 8:40 PM
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Chill out there rambo, your cyber-weewee isn't being questioned....
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2009, 8:42 PM
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So drawing your own gun is preferable?

Tell me, have you ever had a gun in your face?
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2009, 8:48 PM
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Hmm, so it seems like we have two extreme schools of thought here.

One claims that being armed is useless because the bad guys necessarily have the initiative and would draw on the good guys first. Frankly, I've rarely heard anything as stupid outside of the antigunners' ranting.

First of all, this assumes superior skills by the bad guys and complete lack of situational awareness by the good guys. It also assumes that the bad guys have enough numbers to control every single good guy out there. Both assumptions often prove to be false. If the bad guys had enough time and money to invest in training, chances are they wouldn't be the bad guys to begin with. The good guys often do invest in both.

I can think of a few examples off the top of my head. One is that guy from Arizona, who was unloading groceries in his driveway with his family when he was confronted by three armed robbers. He initially complied with their demands, until they decided to kidnap his child, as well. That's when he drew on them. Result? Him and his family unharmed, the robbers escaped, with one or two of them wounded.

The other example is the video of a convenience store robbery. I've seen quite a few of those videos, and one particularly comes to mind. A guy pulled a .38 special snubby on the clerk. The clerk ducked and pulled a shotgun on the robber and shot before the robber reacted with anything more than shock.

Finally, I recall an account by some PD firearms instructor explaining that one of the reasons police officers shoot on suspicious movements rather than when they're sure a gun is being pulled on them is that it takes too long to react and act on this, longer than it takes for a moderately trained person, who already processed and made the decision to pull and fire, to, well, pull and fire. It works similar with a knife at short distances, hence they consider a knife at short enough distances a mortal threat to an officer armed with a gun.

So, with all that, when you're armed, you have quite a few options. You can distract the perp and draw yourself. You can wait until the perp gets distracted and draw or duck and draw. Someone else can draw, or multiple someone elses. You can comply with all the demands and let the robbers go. You can comply with all the demands and distract the robbers, and then draw when they're distracted. There're multiple other options, and there's no way I can describe every single possible option, given the multitude of variables in this kinds of situations. One thing to remember though is that if the robbers are prepared to shoot and not just draw the gun on you, their reaction is going to be slower, as it'll take some time to decide to shoot you. The derivative of this is, don't draw the gun unless you're prepared to shoot what you're drawing at.

When you're not armed, your options are much more limited. You're pretty much at the mercy of the attacker, unless you find some way to either disarm/disable the attacker, or arm yourself. After many years of practicing various martial arts (mostly Shotokan karate), I'm still not comfortable going against a loaded and ready gun far enough away from me.

The other school of thought is as extreme, but I have a bit more sympathy for it. It is that you can take the gun away from the assailant 100% of the time with a simple technique that takes 5 min to practice. Coming form martial arts, I can tell you that no matter how simple it looks or feels when you try it (with a compliant sparring partner), it won't be effective unless you've practiced it for tens of thousands of times to the point that it becomes a reflex, and even then it can fail.

So while I sympathize with the desire to resist against aggression (and I have little sympathy towards meek acceptance of it, especially when it comes with all the arrogance of an "intellectual"), I'd either stack the deck in my favor with better options, or really practice that technique extensively, or better yet, do both.
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2009, 8:53 PM
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I have. Wasnt very fun either. It started out about ten feet away then walked closer and there wasnt jack **** I could do about it. It was almost ten years ago so I was very in experienced but looking back there wasnt jack **** I could do about it even with my current experience. it happened at the job I was at and getting stuck where there is no cover to run to, just open isles. Looking back, If i had a weapon I dont know if I would have risked it if I knew what was going to happen next. Getting dragged to the back and tied up, set on knees execution style isnt fun and I'm not going to keyboard commando it either saying I could of done an axe kick followed by a hudukan either. There were two of them plus the get away driver waiting outside. If I had a weapon and drew I would of been dead from the other one.
So yes mister cage fighter. I HAVE had a gun in my face.
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2009, 8:56 PM
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Coming form martial arts, I can tell you that no matter how simple it looks or feels when you try it (with a compliant sparring partner), it won't be effective unless you've practiced it for tens of thousands of times to the point that it becomes a reflex...
You are absolutely right.

Practice, practice, practice, and practice some more, but the technique is simple nevertheless.

You don't need a black belt.

If some people quit reading into my posts and talking poop, they would see that a takeaway is preferable to drawing your own gun if your opponent's gun is literally in your face.
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Old 07-05-2009, 9:03 PM
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So drawing your own gun is preferable?

Tell me, have you ever had a gun in your face?
Yes, and I saw the round rotate in the cylinder up and I saw it discharge, have you?
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Old 07-05-2009, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
You are absolutely right.

Practice, practice, practice, and practice some more, but the technique is simple nevertheless.

You don't need a black belt.

If some people quit reading into my posts and talking poop, they would see that a takeaway is preferable to drawing your own gun if your opponent's gun is literally in your face.
Umm, alright, good luck with that. Unless I expect to be immediately shot with that gun in my face, I'd rather wait for a better moment though, distract the guy, comply with his demands (works as a distraction, too), etc. I hope we won't read about you on the news

Luckily, I haven't had to deal with that, only knives. That's when the really fun part comes in - when the perp sues you
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