[Kid Stanislaus]

Originally Posted by sorensen440

Technically yes but don't rely on every leo to understand this

Why am I getting the very uneasy feeling that a LOT of LEO's don't "understand" the very laws they are charged with enforcing? Is it because of poor training or because they just don't make the effort?

[Kid Stanislaus]

Originally Posted by GuyW

Your answer is ambiguous - it doesn't have to be unloaded while "hunting or fishing", just during transportation.

That was my understanding and if it is not the case then I'm TOTALLY confused!!

[JDay]

Originally Posted by MudCamper

It depends on where you are. You see, 12027 only exempts you from 12025, which is a prohibition on concealing. You still can not violate 12031, which prohibits loading. But if you are in a non-prohibited area of unincorporated territory, then 12031 does not prohibit loading. We're talking about 2 different laws here, and the 12027 exemption only applies to one of them.

If where you are hunting is non-prohibited area of unincorporated territory per 12031, then yes, you can both conceal and load.

12031 has an exemption for hunting.

[MudCamper]

Originally Posted by JDay

12031 has an exemption for hunting.

The only one I can find is this:

(5) Persons who are using target ranges for the purpose of
practice shooting with a firearm or who are members of shooting clubs
while hunting on the premises of those clubs.

Which is worded poorly and only helps you on "club premises". This is redundant as private property is exempted already.

12031 doesn't apply in non-prohibited areas of unincorporated territory, which is typically where one hunts...

[JDay]

Originally Posted by MudCamper

The only one I can find is this:



Which is worded poorly and only helps you on "club premises". This is redundant as private property is exempted already.

12031 doesn't apply in non-prohibited areas of unincorporated territory, which is typically where one hunts...

You missed this part.

(i) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from carrying
a loaded firearm in an area within an incorporated city while
engaged in hunting, provided that the hunting at that place and time
is not prohibited by the city council.

Although that only applies in an incorporated city.

[brass]

In SD, during the D-16, it's common to see folks open carry while hunting deer. Here's what the DFG reminds folks when they make contact:
1. If you're within 15 feet of a public road, unload & remove mag. Just as you would be expected to remove mag / bolt of your rifle under similar conditions.

2. If you're within 100 yds of a building or structure housing humans or domestic animals, ditto the above.


3. If it's cold out and you're wearing heavy clothing (parka, rain gear, etc.) it's best not to push your luck by trying to protect your handgun. Carry open or find a way to make it obvious that you are not carrying concealed. It's too easy for LE to misconstrue your intentions when you decide to let them know what you have under your coat.

4. An ounce of prevention is worth a gazillion dollars in lawsuits and lost peace of mind for you and your loved ones.

[GuyW]

Its good to hear what the F&G says to some people, because there's nothing on their website to explain any of this from their perspective. Of course, I think that's a tactical omission, because they prefer that the ambiguous F&G laws remain so...

Originally Posted by brass

3. Carry open or find a way to make it obvious that you are not carrying concealed. It's too easy for LE to misconstrue your intentions when you decide to let them know what you have under your coat.

Its legal to carry concealed while hunting.

Originally Posted by brass

2. If you're within 100 yds of a building or structure housing humans or domestic animals, ditto the above.

Why do they make up "stuff"...

How about they just observe the law??
.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by camsoup

Sorry to bring this up from the dead.... just seeking some clarification to this 12027 exemption.



12027 states:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

Your reading that to say that the firearms must be unloaded both while engaged in hunting or fishing AND while transporting said firearms either going to or returning from Hunting or fishing.

The way I see it, is that is specifically says that the firearm must be unloaded while transporting them. Therefore to qualify for the exemption the gun has to be unloaded while transporting to or from a hunting or fishing expedition.

It does not state that they have to be unloaded while hunting or fishing. So I am asking for clarification, is it legal to conceal a loaded firearm while in the field hunting or fishing (assuming we are in an un-prohibited area of un-incorporated territory)?? Of course the firearm would be unloaded,
but still able to be concealed on our way to or from the said hunting or fishing expedition.

I don't think you are confused at all.

There are two prohibitions.

1) Concealed Carry.


12027(g) gives exemption 1 to CONCEALED carry only. In order to meet this exception you must be ACTUALLY hunting.

This means, if you are actually hunting, it does not matter if its loaded or not ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONCEALED CARRY PROHIBITION. You can still be charged with "loaded firearm" if you are in incorporated territory or a "prohibited place".

12027(g) gives exemption 2 to CONCEALED carry as well only while TRANSPORTING the weapon to or from hunting. This applies even incorporated areas and "prohibited places" but in order to qualify, the firearm must be unloaded, even if you are in an unincorporated area which is not prohibited.


2) Loaded Firearm in incorporated areas or prohibited places.

This is straight forward. No loaded firearms in incorporated areas or in prohibited places. Prohibited places includes all public roadways.

It gets a bit confusing. Let me throw some scenarios at you:


In the city, walking down the street with a fishing pole on your way to the aqueduct with a concealed, unloaded firearm. -Legal

In the country, stalking game, loaded firearm, walking across a road. -Illegal- Possessing a loaded weapon in a prohibited area. The fact that you are hunting in unincorporated territory is irrelevant.

In the country, going on a hike on a trail, you don't have a hunting or fishing license- Loaded firearm concealed. -illegal. Concealed carry of a firearm prohibited- No 12027 exemption.

In the country, going on a hike on a trail, you don't even have a hunting or fishing license- Loaded firearm worn openly in a belt holster. -Legal. Loaded carry in unincorporated territory is legal.

Here is the kicker:

In the country, you have a fishing license and you are on your way to fish- Loaded firearm worn concealed. -Illegal. Illegally concealing a firearm. Even though your loaded weapon is legal to possess in unincorporated territory, the fact that you are not yet fishing and are only on your WAY to go fishing requires that you carry that firearm unloaded in order to meet the 12027(g) exemption. You would be charged with carrying a concealed firearm.

Originally Posted by m_freeman

I have been told numerous times by State Park LE this doesn't apply to them NO guns in the Park at all ever under any circumstance,unless locked in box unloaded and only in car as you drive through. Yep all those nice public lands hunting spots are closed if you have to cross State Park land ---so much for access by the public to their own land for legal hunting.

He is correct. Carrying on state parks, school zones, post offices, court rooms, et cetera are made illegal in various other State and Federal law. Keep in mind that "State Park" does not equal "Public Land". State Parks are very rare. They are things like "Yellowstone National Park". BLM and other types of land do not apply.

Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus

Huh? I thought if he was not in a PROHIBITED AREA he could carry LCW as long as he was hunting or on his way to hunt.

Negative.... if he is not yet hunting and is only on his way to go hunting, the firearm must be unloaded to qualify for the exemption to CONCEALED carry. It's kind of interesting but he would be exempt from a charge of 12031 (loaded) even though the fact that it was loaded caused him to be in violation of 12025 (concealed). He would be booked on 12025.

[7222 Hawker]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

Thanks to parker, a "loaded" weapon is when ammo is placed "into a position from which it can fire".

This means a loaded magazine in the magazine well, or a round in the chamber. Anything else is unloaded.


You would be perfectly legal provided you were not within 1000 ft of a school.

YEA - Just be REAL NICE if you happen to get stopped. You shouldn't have any problems then and they probably won't even know.

[MudCamper]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

He is correct. Carrying on state parks, school zones, post offices, court rooms, et cetera are made illegal in various other State and Federal law. Keep in mind that "State Park" does not equal "Public Land". State Parks are very rare. They are things like "Yellowstone National Park". BLM and other types of land do not apply.

Yellowstone is a National Park, not a State Park. They are not the same thing. State Parks are run by the state of California. National Parks are run by the federal government. Both prohibit firearms however. National Parks are the ones where CCW holders were about to be allowed, until that ruling was blocked. And I don't know about where you live, but up here, there are State Parks all over the place.

Related: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...8&postcount=14

(edit: moved parks/forest info to next post)

[MudCamper]

This post has been moved.

I've created a new thread titled Firearms in Forests and Parks in the Outdoors, Camping, and Survival sub-forums.

[otteray]

Originally Posted by GuyW

If the handgun's in a container, its concealed...
.

At the Scott's Valley Club, the rule is all handguns must be in locked containers when brought onto the range property.
I was just trying to make that clear to megavolt121.
In any case, he may have just been using the club for his example.

[johnny_22]

I just got back from a fishing trip in Lassen National Forest. I was all set to carry as I sat at the side of the creek. But, then I thought that since I like to drive up and down the road to other spots, I would need to unload and reload quite often.

Seemed like more trouble than I wanted to deal with. Maybe, I can find one spot where the fish are biting and I can stay put and safe.

[swhatb]

Glad you clarified this.... so many people don't understand this!

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

Negative ghostrider.

12027(g) allows a licensed fisherman/hunter to carry concealed while going to and from hunting. It is still illegal to carry a loaded weapon in INCORPORATED TERRITORY. If one is in unincorporated territory, the gun can be carried loaded openly OR unloaded and concealed provided he is not in a prohibited place (like a roadway).

You must separate the loaded from the concealed. According to the law one has nothing to do with the other. Carrying a loaded firearm in a prohibited place is illegal whether concealed or not. Carrying a concealed firearm is illegal in this state unless you meet one of the exceptions (like hunter/fisher, or ccw).

Case in point:

A person who is hiking in an unincorporated, non-prohibited place can carry a handgun in a holster, loaded. If he puts on a jacket that conceals the firearm, that is illegal because he is concealing the weapon and does not meet any of the exceptions. If he is on his way to hunt jack rabbits with that firearm and decides to put on a jacket he can carry the firearm concealed if he unloads it because then he meets the exception in 12027(g).

[swhatb]

Good examples...

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

I don't think you are confused at all.

There are two prohibitions.

1) Concealed Carry.


12027(g) gives exemption 1 to CONCEALED carry only. In order to meet this exception you must be ACTUALLY hunting.

This means, if you are actually hunting, it does not matter if its loaded or not ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONCEALED CARRY PROHIBITION. You can still be charged with "loaded firearm" if you are in incorporated territory or a "prohibited place".

12027(g) gives exemption 2 to CONCEALED carry as well only while TRANSPORTING the weapon to or from hunting. This applies even incorporated areas and "prohibited places" but in order to qualify, the firearm must be unloaded, even if you are in an unincorporated area which is not prohibited.


2) Loaded Firearm in incorporated areas or prohibited places.

This is straight forward. No loaded firearms in incorporated areas or in prohibited places. Prohibited places includes all public roadways.

It gets a bit confusing. Let me throw some scenarios at you:


In the city, walking down the street with a fishing pole on your way to the aqueduct with a concealed, unloaded firearm. -Legal

In the country, stalking game, loaded firearm, walking across a road. -Illegal- Possessing a loaded weapon in a prohibited area. The fact that you are hunting in unincorporated territory is irrelevant.

In the country, going on a hike on a trail, you don't have a hunting or fishing license- Loaded firearm concealed. -illegal. Concealed carry of a firearm prohibited- No 12027 exemption.

In the country, going on a hike on a trail, you don't even have a hunting or fishing license- Loaded firearm worn openly in a belt holster. -Legal. Loaded carry in unincorporated territory is legal.

Here is the kicker:

In the country, you have a fishing license and you are on your way to fish- Loaded firearm worn concealed. -Illegal. Illegally concealing a firearm. Even though your loaded weapon is legal to possess in unincorporated territory, the fact that you are not yet fishing and are only on your WAY to go fishing requires that you carry that firearm unloaded in order to meet the 12027(g) exemption. You would be charged with carrying a concealed firearm.




He is correct. Carrying on state parks, school zones, post offices, court rooms, et cetera are made illegal in various other State and Federal law. Keep in mind that "State Park" does not equal "Public Land". State Parks are very rare. They are things like "Yellowstone National Park". BLM and other types of land do not apply.



Negative.... if he is not yet hunting and is only on his way to go hunting, the firearm must be unloaded to qualify for the exemption to CONCEALED carry. It's kind of interesting but he would be exempt from a charge of 12031 (loaded) even though the fact that it was loaded caused him to be in violation of 12025 (concealed). He would be booked on 12025.

[swhatb]

Great!

Originally Posted by MudCamper

List of parks, forests, etc. and firearms restrictions:

- National Parks, Federal, National Park Service, US Department of the Interior (firearms prohibited per 36 CFR 2.4 (a))
- National Forests, Federal, US Forest Service, US Department of Agriculture (firearms OK, but CA state law applies)
- BLM Land, Federal, Bureau of Land Management, US Department of the Interior (firearms OK, but CA state law applies)
- State Parks, State, California Department of Parks and Recreation (firearms prohibited per CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (a))
- Regional Parks, some are county owned (example), some are city owned (firearms usually prohibited per local ordinance)

For completeness, I'll include these:

- Wilderness Areas, Federal, usually part of a National Forests or National Parks
- National Monuments, Federal, various agencies including NPS and USFS
- National Wildlife Refuges, Federal, US Fish and Wildlife Service, US Department of the Interior
- DFG Wildlife Areas and Reserves, State, California Department of Fish & Game
- US Army Corp of Engineers Recreation Areas (San Francisco District)
- PG&E owned Recreation Areas

[MudCamper]

Originally Posted by swhatb

Great!

I'll continue to add info to this. Perhaps at some point I should start a new thread for it.

[swhatb]

moderator!

can we get a summary of this and have it posted as a sticky!

it's important info. for folks not knowing/understanding the law.

thanks.

[husker538]

I am going camping in the Sequoia National forest next to huntington lake. I am going to be staying at the upper billy creek campgrounds. The sign says no discharge of firearms but does that also prohibit me from carrying a non concealed and loaded or concealed and unloaded firearm as well strictly within my own campsite and on the back trails?

[4D5auto]

You are not allowed to shoot in any camp ground, IIRC, you may carry in said camp ground. If I need correcting, please do so. Also, IIRC, you may carry concealed or Open, loaded,while in the National Forrest.

F&G code V PC have a different explanition of a loaded weapon.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by 4D5auto

Also, IIRC, you may carry concealed or Open, loaded,while in the National Forrest.

F&G code V PC have a different explanition of a loaded weapon.

WRONG... you must be engaged in hunting/fishing or meet some other 12027(g) exemption to carry concealed ANYWHERE and then the gun MUST be UNLOADED to qualify for the exemption. One cannot carry loaded concealed ANYWHERE without a valid CCW, a peace officer, or some other exemption from 12025.

Also it might be important to point out that many people say the Fish and Game Code supersedes the Penal code... it does not. They augment each other.

The penal code regards loaded weapons in incorporated areas. The Fish and Game code governs loaded weapons everywhere else.

[gbran]

Also it might be important to point out that many people say the Fish and Game Code supersedes the Penal code... it does not. They augment each other.

You are correct. I've spent a lot of time around F&G folks and they tell me that for handguns, they pretty much defer to the penal code.

Of course, in dealing with them, I've found many of them are not well versed on the penal code and have many conflicting opinions on the law.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by gbran

You are correct. I've spent a lot of time around F&G folks and they tell me that for handguns, they pretty much defer to the penal code.

Of course, in dealing with them, I've found many of them are not well versed on the penal code and have many conflicting opinions on the law.

I am from Bakersfield too and it is a common problem around here. I've actually been arrested by the CHP for 12025 and 12031 while legally carrying on Fomoso Road and 65. Its not like I was on Chester Ave.

[HondaMasterTech]

This is an attempt to quote a book that was given to me by the instructor of my handgun class. Written by, John Machtinger. Titled, "How to own a gun and stay out of jail". Jan. 2008. Page 62, Hunters/Fishermen; LICENSED hunters or fishermen can carry a concealed gun while engaging in hunting or fishing, or while going to or coming from that hunting or fishing expedition." "You dont need an exception to the loaded gun law when you lawfully hunt, because you are not in a prohibited area where it is illegal to shoot a gun, and therefore the loaded gun law doesn't apply. However, you cannot have a loaded gun in or on your vehicle while it's on any public road or highway, even when you're hunting." END. I wanted to post this to help. I am not a lawyer. Be sure of the actual laws before you get in trouble.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by HondaMasterTech

This is an attempt to quote a book that was given to me by the instructor of my handgun class. Written by, John Machtinger. Titled, "How to own a gun and stay out of jail". Jan. 2008. Page 62, Hunters/Fishermen; LICENSED hunters or fishermen can carry a concealed gun while engaging in hunting or fishing, or while going to or coming from that hunting or fishing expedition." "You dont need an exception to the loaded gun law when you lawfully hunt, because you are not in a prohibited area where it is illegal to shoot a gun, and therefore the loaded gun law doesn't apply. However, you cannot have a loaded gun in or on your vehicle while it's on any public road or highway, even when you're hunting." END. I wanted to post this to help. I am not a lawyer. Be sure of the actual laws before you get in trouble.

I don't care what your book says. The concealed AND loaded exemption only applies while actually hunting/fishing in non prohibited places. Any public roadway is a prohibited place. Also, if traveling to and from hunting, it MUST be unloaded.

[nick]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

I don't care what your book says. The concealed AND loaded exemption only applies while actually hunting/fishing in non prohibited places. Any public roadway is a prohibited place. Also, if traveling to and from hunting, it MUST be unloaded.

That's exactly what he said

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by nick

That's exactly what he said

No, its not. He fails to mention that when the firearm is being transported to or from it must be UNLOADED. His quote says that one can carry loaded while actually fishing/hunting OR while going to and from. That statement is not true because it fails to mention the requirement of being unloaded while transporting to and from.

Read it again:

Originally Posted by HondaMasterTech

This is an attempt to quote a book that was given to me by the instructor of my handgun class. Written by, John Machtinger. Titled, "How to own a gun and stay out of jail". Jan. 2008. Page 62, Hunters/Fishermen; LICENSED hunters or fishermen can carry a concealed gun while engaging in hunting or fishing, or while going to or coming from that hunting or fishing expedition." "You dont need an exception to the loaded gun law when you lawfully hunt, because you are not in a prohibited area where it is illegal to shoot a gun, and therefore the loaded gun law doesn't apply. However, you cannot have a loaded gun in or on your vehicle while it's on any public road or highway, even when you're hunting." END. I wanted to post this to help. I am not a lawyer. Be sure of the actual laws before you get in trouble.

That makes it sound like I can carry concealed AND loaded on my way to a fishing trip. I cannot.

12027:
Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

[MudCamper]

Originally Posted by husker538

I am going camping in the Sequoia National forest next to huntington lake. I am going to be staying at the upper billy creek campgrounds. The sign says no discharge of firearms but does that also prohibit me from carrying a non concealed and loaded or concealed and unloaded firearm as well strictly within my own campsite and on the back trails?

California law applies in in NF. See my previous post above.

If there is a sign prohibiting shooting, then 12031 prohibits loading. Unloaded open carry is your only option there. When in your own campsite, and not in anyone elses or any common area in a developed camp besides your own campsite, then you can loaded open carry. On the "back trails" if shooting is not prohibited then loaded open carry is also allowed. These all fit within the 12031 exemptions.

[nick]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

No, its not. He fails to mention that when the firearm is being transported to or from it must be UNLOADED. His quote says that one can carry loaded while actually fishing/hunting OR while going to and from. That statement is not true because it fails to mention the requirement of being unloaded while transporting to and from.

Read it again:


That makes it sound like I can carry concealed AND loaded on my way to a fishing trip. I cannot.

However, you cannot have a loaded gun in or on your vehicle while it's on any public road or highway, even when you're hunting

[4D5auto]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

WRONG... you must be engaged in hunting/fishing or meet some other 12027(g) exemption to carry concealed ANYWHERE and then the gun MUST be UNLOADED to qualify for the exemption. One cannot carry loaded concealed ANYWHERE without a valid CCW, a peace officer, or some other exemption from 12025.

Also it might be important to point out that many people say the Fish and Game Code supersedes the Penal code... it does not. They augment each other.

The penal code regards loaded weapons in incorporated areas. The Fish and Game code governs loaded weapons everywhere else.

Are you LE??


That is what I have done for over 30 years prior to my CCW and have NEVER had any issue. Even while talking to F&G or Forest Service personal, and they knew I was carrying.. because I told them. Apparently Northern CA is more friendly to this issue..

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by nick

However, you cannot have a loaded gun in or on your vehicle while it's on any public road or highway, even when you're hunting

That does not cover it.

Lets say you have a concealed and loaded weapon while you are fishing. As soon as you finish fishing and start walking back to your vehicle, your concealed/loaded weapon is now illegal regardless of where you are. As soon as you are no longer engaged in fishing, the firearm must be unloaded while transporting it.

Also, what if you hike on your way to hunt? If you are hiking on your way to go hunting, the firearm must be carried either open and loaded, or concealed and unloaded.

There are many many situations where the state could prove you weren't actually engaged in hunting or fishing and in such a case, the firearm would need to be unloaded if it were carried concealed.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by 4D5auto

Are you LE??

Nope, I am just naturally this arrogant...

Originally Posted by 4D5auto

That is what I have done for over 30 years prior to my CCW and have NEVER had any issue. Even while talking to F&G or Forest Service personal, and they knew I was carrying.. because I told them. Apparently Northern CA is more friendly to this issue..

I have family in LE and I have had a more than average experience fighting the legal system. As I mentioned before, I was arrested while carrying concealed while hunting all the while telling the cop "read PC 12027" and he refused. He booked me on a "loaded" weapon as well because I had a loaded magazine near the gun despite me citing Fish and Game Code 2006 and people v. Clark.

I have found first hand... and paid $2500 to figure out exactly WHERE that fine line is drawn between legal, and not legal. Just because I was legal did not stop me from losing my gun for 5 months, and $2500. Once you've done that, it changes your outlook a bit.

It may sound like I am nit picking because 95% of us travel to and from hunting in a vehicle and that article points out the fact that its illegal in a vehicle. There are many however that do NOT use a vehicle when on their way hunting and fishing and for THOSE people who might read your post and ASSUME something, I play the nit picker. I do this because not everyone has the bankroll to fight the system and win.

Forgive me if I sounded a bit harsh. At no time did I mean to be disrespectful.

[4D5auto]

No problem. Sounds like maybe you didn't have competent counsel.. But that cost some real $$!

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by 4D5auto

No problem. Sounds like maybe you didn't have competent counsel.. But that cost some real $$!

All gun charges were dismissed. The gun was held while the case was adjudicated and then I had to wait 30 days for a DOJ background check to get my own weapon back.

It cost me $2500 because the Impound fee (they towed my car) was $900.00 as we were in the middle of nowhere.

The rest of the expense came from the little detail that I had an expired license at the time so they charged me with a misdemeanor unlicensed driver VC12500A violation that I did 30 hours community service for.

All of this costs money... in addition to the fine.

I was very happy with my defense attorney; originally I was going to do 1 year in jail, loss of firearm, lose driver's license. In the end I paid the state $200 and did 30 hours community service... I think I made out very well but I still consider it a loss because it cost so much.

[GuyW]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

Lets say you have a concealed and loaded weapon while you are fishing. As soon as you finish fishing and start walking back to your vehicle, your concealed/loaded weapon is now illegal regardless of where you are. As soon as you are no longer engaged in fishing, the firearm must be unloaded while transporting it.

For whatever, I disagree.

The statute talks about going to/from a fishing "expedition". When you are hiking in/out, you're still on the "expedition"....

....when you get to the vehicle, that kicks in the unloaded part...

YMMV
.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by GuyW

For whatever, I disagree.

The statute talks about going to/from a fishing "expedition". When you are hiking in/out, you're still on the "expedition"....
.

Disagree all you want. It wont change the law. If you are not ACTUALLY engaged in hunting/fishing and are transporting the firearm concealed, it must be unloaded.

Don't believe me? Chance it or talk to a firearms attorney; he will set you straight.

[GuyW]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

Don't believe me? Chance it or talk to a firearms attorney; he will set you straight.

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

I don't care what your book says.

Said book was written by a "firearms" attorney.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by GuyW

Said book was written by a "firearms" attorney.

This is what the law says:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

If what you are saying is true... that as soon as you leave your house, you are on a "hunting/fishing expedition", you just simply have not gotten there yet right??

Then why put the unloaded verbiage in there?? If it is mooted by the fact that ANY time you leave on the trip, you are on the expedition, then it is a wasted word.

It is more likely that the legislature does not consider you on a hunting/fishing expedition while only traveling to the hunting/fishing site. That is why they put the "transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition" verbiage in there. They obviously do not consider you on the "expedition" unless you are actually at the hunting/fishing site.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by GuyW

For whatever, I disagree.

The statute talks about going to/from a fishing "expedition". When you are hiking in/out, you're still on the "expedition"....

....when you get to the vehicle, that kicks in the unloaded part...

YMMV
.

Maybe this will change your mind:

Hello Christopher,

This is an important issue and I will do my best to give you a full
response that addresses your examples within the next couple days.

The quick answer for now is that there is no exception to Penal Code
Section 12031, the Loaded Gun Law, for licensed hunters or fishermen. On
page 62 of my book the Hunters/Fishermen exception states "Yes" for
Section 12025, the Concealed Gun Law, but "No" for the Loaded Gun Law.
Until you are in an area where you can lawfully hunt [or fish] and the Loaded Gun
Law does not apply, you cannot carry loaded.

For example, if you leave your house in Los Angeles for a bear hunting
trip in northern California, and travel on the 405 freeway with a loaded
gun (and you do not have a CCW or fall under another Loaded Gun Law
exception), you are in violation of Section 12031. To interpret the
exceptions to allow exceptions to both the Concealed Gun Law *and* the
Loaded Gun Law for licensed hunters and fishermen is an overly aggressive
interpretation and is incorrect.

Best regards,

John Machtinger
Publisher
Gun Law Press

[GuyW]

Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum

Maybe this will change your mind:

Well - no, because he's stated MY opinion there.