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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 04-21-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This now brings up to 17 the number of detailed CCW good shoots -- + 4 others w/minimal details -- that I keep in my PDA for when doubters say, "Oh, a CCW will never help you."
Can you repost those other 16 links?
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2009, 12:26 PM
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I didn't read all the pages, but did anyone comment on how interesting it is that a "recovering alcoholic" can get a CCW in that state? not pickin' on AA's, known many over the years and perhaps this guy has been sober for a long time. Just thinking how that would be played here in CA with the good moral character requirement is all.
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:13 PM
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"Lives saved" is a true statement... How many fo you would watch news that was NEWS? Godo news sometimes and not just ad stuff... From what we are reading this persons death was a good thing and saved other peopls lives who are trying to get back on track or stay on track. Good job CCW holder!!! Thanks for protecting everyone for us!!
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I didn't read all the pages, but did anyone comment on how interesting it is that a "recovering alcoholic" can get a CCW in that state? not pickin' on AA's, known many over the years and perhaps this guy has been sober for a long time. Just thinking how that would be played here in CA with the good moral character requirement is all.
IIRC, if someone had to be ordered by the state to rehab or mandatory 12 step meetings, that would be one thing, and a matter of record, but if someone voluntarily did such, I don't see how it would get in the way.
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  #45  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:27 PM
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IIRC, if someone had to be ordered by the state to rehab or mandatory 12 step meetings, that would be one thing, and a matter of record, but if someone voluntarily did such, I don't see how it would get in the way.
+1

Have there been CCW wins like this in OC, or somewhere inside of the state that we never hear about?
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  #46  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I didn't read all the pages, but did anyone comment on how interesting it is that a "recovering alcoholic" can get a CCW in that state? not pickin' on AA's, known many over the years and perhaps this guy has been sober for a long time. Just thinking how that would be played here in CA with the good moral character requirement is all.
the article says he was a "visitor". i've never been to an AA meeting so i dont know if it actually happens, but i took that to mean that maybe the person was just attending to support a friend who was recovering? or was a sponsor or something. again, im not super familiar with how AA works but that is my guess.
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
I didn't read all the pages, but did anyone comment on how interesting it is that a "recovering alcoholic" can get a CCW in that state? not pickin' on AA's, known many over the years and perhaps this guy has been sober for a long time. Just thinking how that would be played here in CA with the good moral character requirement is all.
there is no membership list, no way to know who is sober who is not.
I have not had a drink in almost 5000 days, does that make me an alcoholic?

On a side note, the NJ robber is having a "spiritual awakening" with his Creator...
;-)
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  #48  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhyyke View Post
the article says he was a "visitor". i've never been to an AA meeting so i dont know if it actually happens, but i took that to mean that maybe the person was just attending to support a friend who was recovering? or was a sponsor or something. again, im not super familiar with how AA works but that is my guess.
These meeting are anonymous (IE. the only names used are first names) and it is common for people to attend meetings in different locations and at different times. In larger communities there are meetings at many locations and at many times through out the week. For example with in a 10 mile radius of where I live there are probably 3 or 4 AA meetings every day.

He could have been someone who did not regularly attend this particular meeting (location and time) or he could have been from out of town on business or vacation and decided that he should attend a meeting to help stay on track. Also even if he is a (recovering) alcoholic he could have been sober (in recovery) for many years or even decades and still be attending these meetings to help keep himself that way.
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  #49  
Old 04-21-2009, 1:55 PM
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I have not had a drink in almost 5000 days, does that make me an alcoholic?
Of course not. But it also doesn't make you a non-alcoholic
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  #50  
Old 04-21-2009, 2:12 PM
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waiter, I'll have a seven up, I'm not drinking today.
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  #51  
Old 04-21-2009, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhyyke View Post
the article says he was a "visitor". i've never been to an AA meeting so i dont know if it actually happens, but i took that to mean that maybe the person was just attending to support a friend who was recovering?
That's part of the beauty of AA; there are no rules. If it was an "open" meeting, all are welcome, if "closed" then it is requested that all in attendance identify themselves as alcoholics. As said, he could have also been a member visiting from out of town.
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Old 04-21-2009, 5:44 PM
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That's part of the beauty of AA; there are no rules. If it was an "open" meeting, all are welcome, if "closed" then it is requested that all in attendance identify themselves as alcoholics. As said, he could have also been a member visiting from out of town.
ah, then in that case he probably was not there on a court order. if he was, then the police would not have just let him go.

glad to hear that ccw is working out there!
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  #53  
Old 04-21-2009, 5:48 PM
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Watts said an autopsy Sunday showed Helms was struck three times -- in the neck, abdomen, chest.
Thats good shootin'.... No organ donation for him.
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  #54  
Old 04-21-2009, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by erik View Post
Can you repost those other 16 links?
Sorry, but I don't have links for all of them. Note how in NONE of these cases the CCW'er knew ahead of time they'd be facing a deadly confrontation and thus could NOT have articulated CA's required "Good Cause" for getting a CCW permit.

Examples of CCWs saving lives (in chronological order):

1) IN CCW'er Samuel Hatcher stopped a bank robber who was grappling w/a deputy (Jan 1983).

2) FL CCW'er Vincent McCarthy rescues an officer being beaten up by shooting BG in the leg (April 1992).

3) CCW'er Principal Joel Myrick, Pearl High School, Mississippi, stops a school shooter (1 Oct 1997). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

4) off-duty LEOs (pretty much equivalent to a CCW'ers) Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross, stop the Appalachian School of Law shooter (9 Jan 2002). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalac...f_Law_shooting

5) In Tyler, TX, CCW'er Mark Allen Wilson engages BG who used semiauto AK-47 to kill his ex-wife and attempted to kill many others, incl LEOs, at the Tyler Courthouse (24 Feb 2005). Mr. Wilson died, but he saved those who were near the ex-wife by intervening. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_c...empt_to_subdue
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149250,00.html

6) Albuquerque, NM, 72 y.o. CCW'er Drew Moore shot and killed Felix Vigil who stabbed his ex-wife Joyce Cordova as she worked at the deli in Wal-Mart (25 Aug 2005).


7) In East Baton Rouge, LA, CCW'er Perry Stevens saves LEO Brian Harrison's life by killing George Temple (Feb 2006). http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp...Type=Printable
http://www.theshootist.net/2009/01/o...-perry_12.html

8) In UT, off-duty LEO (again, no radio, no body armor, no partner, so pretty much like a CCW'er) Kenneth Hammond engaged Trolley Square mall shooter until SWAT arrived (13 Feb 2007). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting

9) In Bessemer, AL, CCW'er Chris Chappell stops double murderer and bank robber from escaping (14 May 2007). http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2...k-robbery.html

10) In Plantation, FL, CCW'er John Lovell bested two armed robbers at a Subway sandwich shop (27 June 2007). http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...obbery_070702/

11) In CO, CCW'er (and ex-LEO) Jeanne Assam, a volunteer security officer at New Life Church uses her CCW to stop BG w/AR-15 from entering main building after he killed two and injured three in parking lot (Dec 2007).
http://jeanneassamfanclub.blogspot.com/

12) In Orlando, FL, 5 BGs try robbing 65 y.o. CCWer at gunpoint as he collects cash for parking at a church. Instead of cash, he pulls his gun out from his coat and fires; BGs flee (27 Dec 2007).

13) In Indianapolis, IN, a masked gunman holds up grocery store when 51 y.o. Charlie Merrell pulls out his CCW and holds BG for police (31 Dec 2007). http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59503

14) In Houston, TX, a gunman tries to rob a CCW'er in a grocery parking lot around 10pm. CCW'er draws, fires, and kills BG (6 Feb 2008).

15) In Des Moies, IO, around 10:30 pm, 38 y.o. pizza delivery man James William Spiers III, was lured w/a order to deliver a pizza to a location where 19 y.o. Kenneth Jimmerson put a gun to his head. Spiers grabbed the BG's gun while simultaneously drawing and firing his own, hitting the BG multiple times. Jimmerson was arrested after he phoned for medical aid (29 March 2008). http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/17948249.html

16) In Glasgow, Montana, CCW'er Scott Billingsly shoots BG who killed EMT Melissa Greenhagen in Frances Mahon Deaconess Hospital's parking lot. BG also injured Scott and Scott's wife, a RN who tried to give aid to the fallen EMT (17 Jan 2009). http://www.kulr8.com/news/state/45434932.html

17) In Columbia's Five Points, SC, just before 11:00pm on a Sat night, BG Kayson Helms, of Edison, NJ, entered an AA meeting in an ACOA Club, pulled a .25 caliber HGN and said "Gimme what you got." A few pull out wallets, but a CCW'er pulls out his [.32 acp Keltec] and shoot BG in abdomen, chest and neck. BG flees ~ 100 ft, collapses, and dies (18 April 2009). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=175162

18) In Burton, MI, masked BG w/SGN enters poker business by shooting open a locked door at 1 am. BG orders the 40 - 60 patrons on the floor. Retired Flint CoP (again, a virtual CCW'er) Brad Barksdale confronts BG and kills him w/one shot to the chest (1 July 2009). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=200005

19) In Detroit, MI, at 5:30 am on a Fri, a 43 y.o. woman is pumping gas when 2 BGs approach her and grab her purse. She drew her CCW and fired several rnds, striking one BG multiple times. He later died at Harper Grace Hospital. Police spokesman John Roach: "They didn't realize she has a CCW, so she had a weapon of her own" (25 Sept 2009). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=234513

20) In Jefferson City, MO, an armed assailant was shot by one of the people he was attempting to herd into the building housing law offices on East Capitol Ave (13 Oct 2009). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=233862

21) In Columbus, OH, BG Wayne Winston barged into a motel room, brandished a HGN, ordered the 6 occupants onto the floor, and demanded money. A 70 y.o. great-grandmother w/a CCW pulled her .357 mag. from her purse and shot him once in the chest, causing him to run from the room and die in the parking lot (21 Oct 2009). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=234559

22) In Coeur D'Alene, ID, just before 6:30am, a 17 y.o. BG walked up to rob Michelle Cornelsen, owner of Sunshine Espresso, in her stand. BG set his gun down and covered it w/his hand to hide it when a customer pulled up. That's when Michelle drew her CCW and ordered BG to leave. No shots were fired. A deputy nearby caught BG a few minutes later (30 Dec 2009). News story & video at: http://www.kxly.com/news/22089081/detail.html

23) In Memphis, TN, just after 3:00pm on a Friday, a man with a knife ran through the parking lot of a Family Dollar store threatening customers. The BG chased a delivery driver and others. He was stopped when he tried to lunge his knife at a driver leaving the parking lot. That driver had a "gun permit" and pulled his gun and shot the BG, killing him (5 March 2010). Text & video news report: http://www.wmctv.com/global/story.asp?s=12094028
http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-man-wi...,2103052.story

24) In Turley, OK, just after 10pm on a Thursday, homeowner Michael Lish entered his home through the back door. He heard a noise in the master bedroom and went to investigate. He was confronted by Mr. Billy Jean Tiffey, III, who was wielding Mr. Lish's sword. Mr. Lish told him to stop and drew his CCW. The BG did not stop so Mr. Lish shot him. The BG reached for his pocket so Mr. Lish shot him twice in the chest killing him. A .38 revolver was in the BG's pocket. He also had Mr. Lish's 9mm pistol as well as a stun gun and knife. The BG had a record of drug offenses and DUI (1 April 2010). http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12246529

25) In Omaha, NB, at about 9:00pm in a Walgreens, a GG w/o a CCW but carrying concealed takes out a masked BG, 18 y.o. Marquail Thomas, armed w/a sawed-off Rem. 870 shotgun by shooting him 4 times w/his .40 cal S&W semiauto pistol as the BG threatens a woman. GG then tackles a second BG, 17 y.o. Angelo Douglas, and holds him for police (26 April 2010). News story w/video at: http://www.ketv.com/news/23275007/detail.html and 5 min video interview of GG's attorney w/details of the shoot at: http://www.ketv.com/video/23288954/index.html

26 & 27) In FL, two CCWers foil two separate bank robberies, the first in Palm Bay (2 May 2010), and the second in Titusville (3 May 2010). News video describing both at: http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...bber/1d09v6dqo

28) In West Hollywood, CA, off-duty Los Angeles Sheriff's Deputy Clay Grant, Jr., (what I call a "virtual CCWer") while shopping in a Target store hears a commotion, draws his handgun, and confronts 34 y.o. Layla Trawick holding butcher's knife in one hand and a carving knife in the other. She had stabbed 4 shoppers. He orders her to get on the floor, she runs away inside the store, he pursues her, confronts her again, and she complies (3 May 2010). http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100504/...rget_stabbings

29) In Colleton County, SC, a CCW'er, his wife, and her mother were traveling at night in two cars. They pulled over when one car started having problems and called a towing service. Three BGs pull up, and one (David Jayquon Jakes, age 19), gets out w/a mask on and points a gun at one of the women and orders her around. The CCW'er -- who was unseen as he had been behind one of the vehicles working on it -- orders the BGs to leave. Jakes turns w/gun to CCWer, so CCW'er shoots him several times. Other BGs drag wounded one back to car and fire as they drive away. They drop critically wounded Jakes off at a hospital (3 June 2010). News story and video at: http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12598387

30) In Mesquite, TX, just after midnight, an unknown man shows up at a poker party at an apartment. He flashes a gun and attempts to rob the players. "Lt. Bill Hedgpeth said 35-year-old Tracey Moore struggled with the suspect and was shot and killed. Another man at the party, 34-year-old Jerome Johnson, then fatally shot the gunman, 28-year-old Darvis Dervon Young. Hedgepeth said Johnson does have a concealed handgun license. A grand jury will decide whether he will face any charges" (15 June 2010). New story and video at: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/061...rty-police-say

31) In Bartlett, TN, two 16 y.o. men tried robbing a 21 y.o. man, who works for a gun range. "The shootout occurred about 10 p.m. Wednesday at the Edgewater Apartments east of Sycamore View and south of Raleigh-LaGrange. . . . one of the suspects fired at the man during an attempted robbery. The victim, who was within 3 feet of one robber and about 10 from the other, fired five shots, four of them striking the would-be robbers." One BG was dead right there, and the other was taken to a local hospital (30 June 2010). http://www.commercialappeal.com/news.../?cid=Facebook

32) In Chandler, AZ, at a party two gangstas pick a fight w/a CCWer and then draw on him. He kills them both (5 Sept 2010). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=339717

33) In Clearwater, FL, 83 y.o. CCW'er Charles Place was attacked from behind in a restaurant parking lot in a robbery attempt. Charles, knocked to the ground, drew his .25 cal. semi and ordered the BG to leave him alone. Bryan Treloar, ran and was followed by a witness. Police caught up with him and charged him with attempted strong arm robbery (22 Sept 2010). http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,7201060.story

34) In Charlotte, NC, a Pizza Hut driver who is attacked and pistol whipped in the restaurant uses his CCW to stop and kill Gregory James Hardy and Dauntrae Wallace, both 21 and both convicted felons (27 Sept 2010). http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?p=5049750

35) In Nashville, TN, around 8:30 pm in the Arbors of Brentwood apartment complex, a Jet's Pizza driver was held up at gunpoint by 3 BGs. Driver uses his CCW to shoot and kill one of the BGs. Other 2 flee. Police believe shooting was in self-defense (26 Nov or 3 Dec 2010). (http://www.newschannel5.com/story/13...elivery-driver)

36) 2012 April 21, Macon, GA; Luisa Campbell: http://www.13wmaz.com/news/topstorie...s-Going-to-Die

37) 2012 July 13:

Last edited by Paladin; 07-22-2012 at 8:55 PM.. Reason: adding more examples of CCWs protecting lives
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  #55  
Old 04-21-2009, 8:08 PM
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good one less POS roaming the streets.
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Old 04-30-2009, 11:19 AM
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they definately gave them wat they got . some slugs to his chest..
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Old 04-30-2009, 11:41 AM
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Old 04-30-2009, 11:51 AM
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Old 04-30-2009, 2:54 PM
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Did anyone else feel like the article was trying to find a way to villify the shooter and ellicit sympathy for the victim? I mean they didn't exactly do it but I felt like the author was on the brink of it and couldn't quite figure out how without sounding stupid.
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Old 04-30-2009, 3:24 PM
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Nothing tests your dedication to sobriety like shooting someone in self defense. I bet he thought he could use a drink after that one...I hope he is still on the wagon...
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Old 04-30-2009, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by proudamerican831 View Post
Recovering alcoholic's don't have good moral Character? I have been in recovery for 23 years. Most of us are not registered as substance abusers.
We recognize we have a problem and a desire to change. The 2nd A in AA is for anonymous, meaning your name is not written anywhere. If the good moral character clause was used for all gun owners, who would own guns?
I had a friend some years ago, who has since passed on, who owned a string of businesses. They were all successful, and he worked hard every day. Then he had to go into the hospital for a surgery and lengthy recovery. He began exhibiting signs of alcohol withdrawal. It turned out he had 2 stiff drinks a night for almost 40 years, but no more than that. Yet it created a physical dependancy. He was in fact a fully functioning and successful alcoholic. It certainly didn't affect his good moral character, and he wasn't even aware of the problem until the hospital stay.
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Old 05-01-2009, 2:38 PM
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He used an illegal wallet gun, I think...
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Old 05-01-2009, 3:11 PM
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Keep comiing back it Works
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Old 04-03-2010, 6:13 PM
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I like hearing the open carry and CCW stories saving lives but I am afraid gun control advocates will not find them compelling--for every such story we muster, they'll cite and equal number of crazies killing family or former employers who fired them. While I encourage the stories and their spread as they can only help, I personally don't think they'll win for us. Common sense tells us an armed person or one thought to be armed is a deterrent. Period. I've worn down and converted a few liberal relatives in debates--one even bought a Mossberg 500 for his home and revolver he takes to his ski cabin.
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Old 04-03-2010, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
I like hearing the open carry and CCW stories saving lives but I am afraid gun control advocates will not find them compelling--for every such story we muster, they'll cite and equal number of crazies killing family or former employers who fired them.
Don't let gun control advocates get away w/confusing the categories: nutcases do their killings without CCWs.

CCWs give the rest of us -- law-abiding and peace-loving Americans -- a fighting chance to live, to defend our and others' lives. Many of those stories I posted are examples of that.
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Old 04-03-2010, 6:27 PM
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Gah.....

I was wondering why this looked so familiar... and then I realized this thread was from LAST YEAR.

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Old 04-03-2010, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Foghlai View Post
Gah.....

I was wondering why this looked so familiar... and then I realized this thread was from LAST YEAR.

AD resurrected it because he linked to post #55 above through my sig line. That posting is where I continue to add pro-CCW (and now OC) examples.
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Old 04-03-2010, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Liberty1 View Post
Nice. Wish it was all over the news, "LIVES SAVED!" I can dream...
Yea right.... "Innocent man shot and killed by an assault weapon" is what you might hear in California. lol

The thief was from NJ, I see they're attempting to fix their problems by exporting the scum.....
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Old 04-03-2010, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ZRX61 View Post
Looks like he got what he asked for..
Looks like, once again, lib criminals need to learn to be more specific when they ask for things.
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Old 04-03-2010, 7:23 PM
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Perfect outcome. I'll drink a beer to the shooter tonight. Maggot down, we have a maggot down. -g
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Old 04-04-2010, 9:41 AM
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Did the shooter steal the bad guys ammo. Ammo prices are higher now a days
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Old 04-04-2010, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyRooks View Post
.

"Gimme what you got,"
All I have are .45ACPs but I guess that will have to do, here take 3!
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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So if you do ban me you will hear from my lawyer as to why you think you can violate peoples civil rights
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Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
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Old 04-04-2010, 2:38 PM
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MSNBC reported this in another story about how gun deaths have decreased with the rise in gun ownership and (hold on to your hats) reported it fairly equal sided.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389...s=us_news-life
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Old 08-05-2010, 9:36 AM
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Definition of stupid (or suicidal):
31) In Bartlett, TN, two 16 y.o. men tried robbing a 21 y.o. man, who works for a gun range. "The shootout occurred about 10 p.m. Wednesday at the Edgewater Apartments east of Sycamore View and south of Raleigh-LaGrange. . . . one of the suspects fired at the man during an attempted robbery. The victim, who was within 3 feet of one robber and about 10 from the other, fired five shots, four of them striking the would-be robbers." One BG was dead right there, and the other was taken to a local hospital (30 June 2010). News story at: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news.../?cid=Facebook
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Not only are they trying to rob a business known to have firearms, but a business that PRACTICES use of firearms. I suppose one might HOPE that the range worker didn't have a gun and hadn't used his own facilities for several years, but it does seem to be a stretch.

4 hits out of 5...not bad.

Ooops, rereading it makes me think that there's a chance that they didn't know where he worked. If they knew him, they made a very bad decision.

Last edited by Wherryj; 08-05-2010 at 9:42 AM..
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Old 08-05-2010, 9:55 AM
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What "step" in the program is this?

Good shooting!
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Old 08-05-2010, 9:59 AM
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"Gimme what you got," witnesses quoted the suspected robber as saying when he entered the AA building at 2015 College St. about 10:48 p.m. Saturday. They said he brandished a .25 caliber handgun.

I suppose that if he had lived he would have been charged with assault with an almost dangerous weapon?
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Old 08-05-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
The dead robbery suspect was identified as Kayson Helms, 18, of Edison, New Jersey, Richland County Coroner Gary Watts said Sunday.
Impossible. Criminals can't get guns in New Jersey.
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Old 08-05-2010, 10:15 AM
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WIN
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:03 AM
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Somebody should have told him, gimme's don't get.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foghlai View Post
Gah.....

I was wondering why this looked so familiar... and then I realized this thread was from LAST YEAR.

And now, last Spring?

Isn't there any way to archive threads that are of a certain age? I propose doing that, then if someone wants to re-open one, they seek permission from the Mod's or Admin. Why not?

Erik.
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