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  #1  
Old 03-14-2019, 8:37 AM
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Default Highly Sexualized K-12 "Healthy Youth" Curriculum For K-3 Grades

No intention to detract from the seemingly-popular "wife sodomy" thread here, but I was recently reminded of how, for leftists, doing good ain't got no end.

A parent in a social media group posted some images of materials used in the K-3 "California Healthy Youth Act" curriculum. If you have children or grandchildren in CA public schools, these are samples of materials kids in grades K-3 could be reading. The leftists have completely sexualized this curriculum, and parents need to know that this is being pushed in their local schools, and that CA Ed code §51939 lets them exempt their kids from this nonsense.













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Old 03-14-2019, 8:38 AM
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This is also from the curriculum, a different book:











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Old 03-14-2019, 8:42 AM
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What in the EFFF???? Holy cow. Um.. let kids be kids?!! Maybe I'm ignorant, but we didn't learn this until 5th grade. Which is around when puberty kicks in for most kids. Maybe I'm old school but this is too much.

So I dont exactly understand how this goes--is this State required? or City/County? We're in NorCal, I'm hoping we dont have the same or equivalent curriculum.
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:46 AM
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[...]
So I dont exactly understand how this goes--is this State required? or City/County? We're in NorCal, I'm hoping we dont have the same or equivalent curriculum.
It is required by CA. "California Healthy Youth Act." Signed into law by our former Governor Brown in 2015.
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:53 AM
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Aaaand... This is why I homeschool.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:22 AM
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What does this have to do with religion?
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:42 AM
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Too much information for this age group...
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:49 AM
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What does this have to do with religion?
Typically the largest demographic of folks who take issue with this curriculum tend to be the committed Christians, IME. The opposition is often organizing in local churches, not local synagogues or local mosques, though there are probably Jewish and Muslim parents who also find it objectionable.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:17 PM
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This looks hilarious. My son would whip it out and do a dance with his pants around his ankles if they read this in his class.
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Old 03-14-2019, 3:53 PM
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Kids should learn this stuff in the streets and backyards like we did.
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Old 03-14-2019, 4:24 PM
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That's sickening. Wow. As this gets out, more homeschooling will take place for young kids.

Thanks for sharing. I never knew the "what" of these teachings.
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Old 03-14-2019, 4:51 PM
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Since a percentage of kids will eventually get hooked on heroine let's just add "safe shooting" to the curriculum. Never too early to learn how to mix drinks...how about a K-3 cartoon bar tender's guide? Anf let's face it, the majority of CA kids will eventually smoke pot do how about teaching them early with a fun cartoon book that discusses the various methods?

ETA: Showed these pics to my libtard wife and asked at what age she'd expect our little girl to come home with these books. Her reply "10th grade" Even she couldn't believe it.

Last edited by WalterJones; 03-14-2019 at 5:45 PM..
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Old 03-14-2019, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 357manny View Post
What in the EFFF???? Holy cow. Um.. let kids be kids?!! Maybe I'm ignorant, but we didn't learn this until 5th grade. Which is around when puberty kicks in for most kids. Maybe I'm old school but this is too much.

So I dont exactly understand how this goes--is this State required? or City/County? We're in NorCal, I'm hoping we dont have the same or equivalent curriculum.
It's being pushed down earlier because puberty is hitting earlier. Waiting until 5th grade means half the class is already in puberty. They do it in 4th grade in our county, Lake....and several girls in the class had already run to the nurse bleeding BEFORE the puberty class ever happened.
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Old 03-15-2019, 3:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wichlaz View Post
It's being pushed down earlier because puberty is hitting earlier. Waiting until 5th grade means half the class is already in puberty. They do it in 4th grade in our county, Lake....and several girls in the class had already run to the nurse bleeding BEFORE the puberty class ever happened.
this guy gets it.....children in america are developing faster than ever before. what was a normal age for puberty to hit back in our day is not so normal anymore. but its sooooo much easier to be outraged about the liberals then examine why children are showing signs of sexual maturation at younger ages. that would require actual work and probably make a few industries look bad.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24190685

https://health.usnews.com/wellness/f...uberty-earlier

https://www.sciencealert.com/girls-a...g-term-effects
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Old 03-15-2019, 5:50 AM
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It has nothing to do with maturing early. The left hates America and wants to destroy it. Destroying the nuclear family is the key to is disruption. Take away parents ability to protect child innocence or the ability to instruct their children in the values of the family are the best ways to make people dependent on the state rather than the sovereignty of the nuclear family. Also, it teaches that pre-marital sex is fine. Further breaking down the pre-eminence of the nuclear family which is the building block of civilization. If you want to destroy a civilization, this is how you do it. The left has been at it for 50+ years.
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Old 03-15-2019, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wichlaz View Post
It's being pushed down earlier because puberty is hitting earlier. Waiting until 5th grade means half the class is already in puberty. They do it in 4th grade in our county, Lake....and several girls in the class had already run to the nurse bleeding BEFORE the puberty class ever happened.
Why should the public education system be responsible for teaching this to children?
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:15 PM
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Why should the public education system be responsible for teaching this to children?
Hey, a little mission creep here (free breakfast and/or lunch for many students), or there (childcare for girls that get pregnant while enrolled in K-12), what is the difference? In other words, schools are already functioning as surrogate parents in many respects, why not have 'em take over a few more responsibilities? Saving all us hoi polloi from ourselves, right?

But seriously, when you look at who was behind AB329, is it surprising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equality California
California Healthy Youth Act
AB 329, authored by Assemblymember Shirley Weber, would update and strengthen existing law to ensure that students receive sex education that is accurate, comprehensive, medically accurate, age-appropriate and inclusive. LGBT students are too often made to feel invisible, or worse, stigmatized in health classes. LGBT-inclusive education has been shown to have a positive effect on school climate overall and make LGBT youth feel safer in school. AB 329 will thus lead to greater understanding and acceptance of LGBT youth and families. Additionally, the bill will update curriculum on prevention of sexually transmitted infections, HIV, and pregnancy. EQCA is co-sponsoring AB 329 with American Civil Liberties Union of California, California Latinas for Reproductive Justice, Forward Together, and Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California.

Status: Passed the Legislature. Signed by Governor Brown on October 1, 2015.

Author: Assembleymember Shirley Weber (D-San Diego)
They are plainly stating that this is "LGBT inclusive," which is not education, it is pushing leftist values under the guise of education.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:16 PM
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WOW!!!so much has changed! craziness!
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:03 PM
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I don't even think homeschooling helps as much as people think. With internet and smart phones and their friends kids seem to lose their innocence at younger ages than I remember when I was a child. Also even regular TV promotes and shows homosexuality as normal and mainstream much more nowadays.

Even in the old days there was always a kid at school or elsewhere that would have a porn magazine they got somewhere and show everyone else.

I'm know my mom didn't enjoy when I asked her at a very young age what f**k and jack off** meant. I had read it on a restroom stall. She had someone from church try to explain some of that to me I remember on one occasion.
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Old 03-17-2019, 8:45 AM
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I don't even think homeschooling helps as much as people think. With internet and smart phones and their friends kids seem to lose their innocence at younger ages than I remember when I was a child. Also even regular TV promotes and shows homosexuality as normal and mainstream much more nowadays.

Even in the old days there was always a kid at school or elsewhere that would have a porn magazine they got somewhere and show everyone else.

I'm know my mom didn't enjoy when I asked her at a very young age what f**k and jack off** meant. I had read it on a restroom stall. She had someone from church try to explain some of that to me I remember on one occasion.
Kids shouldn't have "smartphones" and neither should mommy or daddy.
Flip phones work just fine.
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Old 03-17-2019, 8:47 AM
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Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
No intention to detract from the seemingly-popular "wife sodomy" thread here, but I was recently reminded of how, for leftists, doing good ain't got no end.

A parent in a social media group posted some images of materials used in the K-3 "California Healthy Youth Act" curriculum. If you have children or grandchildren in CA public schools, these are samples of materials kids in grades K-3 could be reading. The leftists have completely sexualized this curriculum, and parents need to know that this is being pushed in their local schools, and that CA Ed code §51939 lets them exempt their kids from this nonsense.













Wrong age group but 5th grade would be fine for biology
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Old 03-17-2019, 6:40 PM
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Why should the public education system be responsible for teaching this to children?
Someone has to? Many parents never bother. And this is one of those things, that society suffers for if children aren't taught. It's just another body system.

Circulatory System
Respiratory System
Endocrine System
Nervous System
Reproductive System.

Nothing more. They have the right to know how their own bodies work.
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Old 03-17-2019, 6:53 PM
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Someone has to? Many parents never bother. And this is one of those things, that society suffers for if children aren't taught. [...]They have the right to know how their own bodies work.
I need to constantly remind myself not to impugn malice when other explanations will suffice, but again, this is part of an overall institutionalized leftist value push more than anything else, and the curriculum materials posted upthread are intended for grades K-3. It isn't middle schoolers who will read about how babies are made, it is kids in grades K-3.

The leftist value push is more aggressive for higher grades. This is the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 03-17-2019, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
the curriculum materials posted upthread are intended for grades K-3. It isn't middle schoolers who will read about how babies are made, it is kids in grades K-3.

The leftist value push is more aggressive for higher grades. This is the tip of the iceberg.
that's because children in third grade are showing signs of puberty now.
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Not at all. Trump is a loser and will lose amazingly on Tuesday. It's going to be so big, we are all going to be sick and tired of how much he loses on Tuesday.
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Old 03-17-2019, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wichlaz View Post
Someone has to? Many parents never bother. And this is one of those things, that society suffers for if children aren't taught. It's just another body system.

Circulatory System
Respiratory System
Endocrine System
Nervous System
Reproductive System.

Nothing more. They have the right to know how their own bodies work.
No. Nobody has to. It's supposed to be a free country and the government has no business in it.
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Old 03-17-2019, 7:55 PM
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that's because children in third grade are showing signs of puberty now.
That seems to be a bit of an overstatement. Recent studies show that the mean age of onset for thelarche was close to 10 years, and for menarche, almost 13 years of age. Typically, students in 3rd grade are between 8 and 9 years of age. While there is a valid interest in a certain amount of sexual education, IME this goes well beyond that. Anyone who works in public schools or the medical profession can probably tell some horror stories-- girls pregnant at 13, kids thinking that Saran Wrap might be a good substitute for a condom-- but CHYA is a vehicle for pushing leftism, pure and simple. And while I'm sure we receive so many benefits as Californians from our full-time legislature, I don't think schools need more mission creep and/or top-down management from our so-called representatives. Communities get the schools they want.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:25 AM
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The book per se doesn't bother me... It's simply not the states job to teach such things to children.

If anyone disagrees then ask yourself this question... How is it that humanity got by just fine for thousands of years without the government "teaching" children such things?

This is nothing more than overt manipulation to strip parents rights from them and vest all power over children's lives with the state. ANYONE that is concerned about the power of government should be worried.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:28 AM
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The book per se doesn't bother me... It's simply not the states job to teach such things to children.

If anyone disagrees then ask yourself this question... How is it that humanity got by just fine for thousands of years without the government "teaching" children such things?

This is nothing more than overt manipulation to strip parents rights from them and vest all power over children's lives with the state. ANYONE that is concerned about the power of government should be worried.
^^ QFT ^^
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Old 03-18-2019, 5:24 PM
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How about we get our kids to read and wrote at an acceptable clip, then worry about sex Ed?
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Old 03-18-2019, 7:02 PM
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How about we get our kids to read and wrote at an acceptable clip, then worry about sex Ed?
Math and English at grade level is a rarity these days. The standards have been lowered, and lowered, and lowered... one of the main reasons that a high school diploma is just about worthless today is because the marketplace doesn't want to bother figuring out where on the spectrum a diploma-holder is at: functional innumerate and/or functional illiterate at one end, ready for elite university education at the other (literate and numerate). The path of least resistance is to ignore the diploma, ask for a BA/BS. But it would be refreshing to have students earning meaningful grades in K-12. Many are "given" highly inflated, meaningless grades.

But without real competition-- i.e., vouchers-- communities will continue to get the schools they want, just to a lesser degree.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:26 AM
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K-3 is too early.
Read the content from the posted pics and I don't have objections to the wording.

The bottom drawing from "It's not the storks" looks risqué. Aye caramba.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
that's because children in third grade are showing signs of puberty now.


That seems to be a bit of an overstatement.
Hey at risk of provoking an Internet Argument on this fine forum... your ignorance on the early puberty topic has caused me to login to this (generally pretty great) site for the first time in a few years.

Here's my take: you've got a right to your opinions, values, and to free speech of course. We all do. We even have the right to be ignorant, out-of-touch, and simply ill-informed. I sure am, about lots of stuff. The older I get, the more that seems to happen.

Do you have a child in elementary school?

I have two. That doesn't make me an expert in puberty or ethics or education, but I am an expert in these two kids. They're starting puberty in the K-3 age, which you're asking about.

My daughter is nine (9) and going thru puberty. She wears a bra. Her breasts are painfully sensitive. She has skin problems, totally normal... for a teen. She's got hormone chaos, emotional outbursts, body hair coming in... she's putting on muscle, and is taller than some girls (and boys) multiple grades ahead. It's not just her: some of the boys in her 3rd grade class already have little mustaches and boners under the sweatpants. (Parents hear about this stuff, even if we don't want to.) This is in 3rd grade!

Last year, in second grade, a big group got busted for talking about sex -- full on PIV -- at lunch. That's not a phone call you expect from a 2nd grade teacher, but... isn't that exactly the type of convo you expect kids going through puberty to have? (To the point a previous post made about "learning about this stuff like we did, from other kids" yeah that's happening too. In addition to books. It's not either/or.)

Some of the girls on my daughter's YMCA basketball team have already gone through ALL of puberty. They're in 5-7th grade (my daughter is tall so she's on a team with girls 2-4 years older) but look like young highschoolers of my generation. As a dad, I'm like, "WTF Over" but it is what it is!

A few of the other boys on my son's little league team are as tall as small men already. And he's in FIRST grade. These are third and fourth graders. Some of them are not just starting puberty, they are probably halfway (?) done... experiencing at age ~10 stuff I didn't go through until 13-14. Sigh.

And in my defense as a parent, I've been super careful to avoid the types of plastics that leach synthetic hormones into my kids. And chemicals and products that can act like hormones. Fact is, there are artificial hormones (and antibiotics) in our milk and our meat now, that simply were not present 50 years ago. And less common, 20-30 years ago. Wish we had a better USDA, FDA and CDC etc, but we don't, and that's a topic for a different thread not in the religion sub-forum.

As much as I wish that early puberty weren't a fact, it is.

And it's also NOT unusual, abnormal, or weird. It's a fact of life, modern life, anyway. That's reality. For complex reasons, kids ARE beginning puberty earlier now we did a generation ago (or two, or three... plenty of older folks on this site, don't mean to be age-ist). Therefore, the questions kids have and need answers to, are coming earlier. If you don't understand that, you're not living in the real world.

So feel free to your concern. Even your moral outrage or nostalgia. I think it's OK to get SUPER CRAZY UPSET about what our kids are being taught. Get involved! I do. (Personally, I'm anti charter school.) We are so hugely lucky to live in this amazing, free country. And for all the complaining about California, we're lucky to be here too.

But you're just wrong when you state our fellow forum member is "overstating" anything about puberty starting earlier. He couldn't be more right. He's telling you the truth, you're just not listening, or don't want to hear it. I'd ask yourself why, frankly.

Q: You know what else is a reality-based fact, that wasn't true when we were younger, but is a day-to-day aspect of parenting in modern times?

A: That your elementary school kids ask their parents why priests are raping children? And why the church lets them get away with it?

Because this is literally in the news almost every day now. And they get the news in their classrooms too. Not just at home, where at least I can turn off the radio or TV if something alarming or gruesome is blaring. Do I wish that weren't happening, yes I do. I wish I could better offer my children a carefree youth, and more time to just be kids and play around and grow up (and go thru puberty) slower. But I can't.

Obviously, it's better the topics come up earlier, and more publically (i.e. with healthy adults and peers in non-taboo non-sexualized circumstances) in both the family and educational context... many years before it might be forced on them by some molester creep priest or the proverbial "uncle touchy."

And there are sadly a LOT of creeps and child molesters out there. I mean, this is not academic, it's empiric: this is reality, not imaginary. One need only look at the public sex offender maps (which we should literally thank the government for) to see how common, how real, how local the registered sex offenders are in California. And those are just the criminals, who got caught! How many more must be out there, who haven't been caught? In generations past we were literally ignorant of how pervasive child abuse was. We're not now, and that's not a "for better or worse" thing, it's strictly for the better. Knowing is good. Ignorance is dangerous.

And the cure for ignorance is education. This is simple.

And blaming education (or learning) for ANYTHING is backward, no offense. Not just pointless but demonstrably, logically, ethically, and morally wrong.

Anyone who argues otherwise is arguing, by extension, we should not know and/or not teach our children which mushrooms are poisonous, or that some snakes can kill you, or teach moms thalidomide makes flippers etc. Should we not teach kids guns are dangerous when used carelessly? Is K-3 "too young" to teach gun safety? Of course not. We all understand the reality, and teach what's needed, when it's needed. But

in the case of sex ed, or early puberty, you seem to be disagreeing with reality. Truth is not subjective, so in this case, your opinion is just wrong. I'm calling you out on that, because while you're entitled to your opinion, and free to associate with other wrong-thinkers... you're not entitled to freedom from facts. Feel free to argue (or loathe) my opinions. But facts are facts.

When I see those book pages you posted, I can totally see why they might alarm some people. Especially people without young children. I see a kids book, about reality. Two clicks on YouTube or Netflix, kids see infinitely worse, every day.

To wrap up... given this is the religion forum, I think we ought to have more earnest conversations with each other about how we can all help our children and our communities in an increasingly turbulent and sometimes downright scary world. (Terrorism, school shootings, natural disasters like recent fires etc.)

What role is the best role for religion, the church, the family, our public vs private schools, going forward? Because sadly it seems to be the case that what we've been doing over the last hundred years or so, didn't work, in the case of our churches and their lack of moral leadership... with regards child abuse specifically.

Bringing this back to the sex ed topic, as a dad, I'll literally be damned before I let my kids proceed into the future -- to come of age -- ignorant of basic facts of life, nature, whatever you want to call the reality of how their bodies work. Let alone allow them to feel shame or sin or gross for being human. Or asking. Let alone letting a priest or other fact-denier/science-denier have a chance to lie to my kids, before I or their teachers have taught them the truth.

Anyway, I apologize in advance if this post feels like an assault on you. Or if any of my vocab choices feel like insults. It's not YOU I'm railing against here.

So what am I railing against? It's primarily the denial of the fact that kids are starting puberty earlier these days (which, to repeat: they really are); and secondarily, the implicit supposition that we can accomplish anything good by promoting ignorance of any kind, non-teaching, about biology and bodies... especially when our kids are already getting cluster-bombed with an almost overwhelming variety of sexualization in their toys, clothes, media, music etc. It seems to me, like the literal least we can do, to equip them with non-sexualized answers to their age-appropriate questions. At whatever age the questions surface. And for some kids, that's shockingly early, because puberty is starting shockingly early, for some kids. It just is.

Best wishes

p.s. Related tangent: unless we want to have a truly contentious internet debate, don't even get me started on active-shooter school safety, in school, for K-3 kids. Because my kids (7 and 9) have already had to spend time at school being taught how to stay alive if there's a shooter in their school. And there's no parent opt-out on that. It's mandatory. And that's probably a good thing. Which is sadly a similar issue to this early puberty topic, in that man oh man... of course I wish 100% it weren't happening like this, to them, on our watch. But it is. And we gotta be realistic about that. Especially those of us who are enthusiastic about firearms, and want to raise the next generation of responsible Americans. And so I'll close here as a dad, asking those of us on the CalGuns forum who aren't parents, to step back a bit from the extremes of personal preference, and adult political or sectarian philosophy etc, and just have some basic empathy and charity of heart when kids are involved. Hopefully we can all agree actual kids are infinitely more important, than winning internet arguments.

Last edited by hkmp5; 03-21-2019 at 12:32 PM.. Reason: typo, leech != leach
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  #33  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:56 AM
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@hkmp5
Thanks for sharing your fully comprehensible response. Means a lot to me, as a father of a 5, soon to be 6 year old little girl. It's a lot to take in, but I fully appreciate your reply.
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Old 03-22-2019, 8:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hkmp5 View Post
Hey at risk of provoking an Internet Argument on this fine forum... your ignorance on the early puberty topic has caused me to login to this (generally pretty great) site for the first time in a few years.

Here's my take: you've got a right to your opinions, values, and to free speech of course. We all do. We even have the right to be ignorant, out-of-touch, and simply ill-informed. I sure am, about lots of stuff. The older I get, the more that seems to happen.

Do you have a child in elementary school?

I have two. That doesn't make me an expert in puberty or ethics or education, but I am an expert in these two kids. They're starting puberty in the K-3 age, which you're asking about.

My daughter is nine (9) and going thru puberty. She wears a bra. Her breasts are painfully sensitive. She has skin problems, totally normal... for a teen. She's got hormone chaos, emotional outbursts, body hair coming in... she's putting on muscle, and is taller than some girls (and boys) multiple grades ahead. It's not just her: some of the boys in her 3rd grade class already have little mustaches and boners under the sweatpants. (Parents hear about this stuff, even if we don't want to.) This is in 3rd grade!

Last year, in second grade, a big group got busted for talking about sex -- full on PIV -- at lunch. That's not a phone call you expect from a 2nd grade teacher, but... isn't that exactly the type of convo you expect kids going through puberty to have? (To the point a previous post made about "learning about this stuff like we did, from other kids" yeah that's happening too. In addition to books. It's not either/or.)

Some of the girls on my daughter's YMCA basketball team have already gone through ALL of puberty. They're in 5-7th grade (my daughter is tall so she's on a team with girls 2-4 years older) but look like young highschoolers of my generation. As a dad, I'm like, "WTF Over" but it is what it is!

A few of the other boys on my son's little league team are as tall as small men already. And he's in FIRST grade. These are third and fourth graders. Some of them are not just starting puberty, they are probably halfway (?) done... experiencing at age ~10 stuff I didn't go through until 13-14. Sigh.

And in my defense as a parent, I've been super careful to avoid the types of plastics that leach synthetic hormones into my kids. And chemicals and products that can act like hormones. Fact is, there are artificial hormones (and antibiotics) in our milk and our meat now, that simply were not present 50 years ago. And less common, 20-30 years ago. Wish we had a better USDA, FDA and CDC etc, but we don't, and that's a topic for a different thread not in the religion sub-forum.

As much as I wish that early puberty weren't a fact, it is.

And it's also NOT unusual, abnormal, or weird. It's a fact of life, modern life, anyway. That's reality. For complex reasons, kids ARE beginning puberty earlier now we did a generation ago (or two, or three... plenty of older folks on this site, don't mean to be age-ist). Therefore, the questions kids have and need answers to, are coming earlier. If you don't understand that, you're not living in the real world.

So feel free to your concern. Even your moral outrage or nostalgia. I think it's OK to get SUPER CRAZY UPSET about what our kids are being taught. Get involved! I do. (Personally, I'm anti charter school.) We are so hugely lucky to live in this amazing, free country. And for all the complaining about California, we're lucky to be here too.

But you're just wrong when you state our fellow forum member is "overstating" anything about puberty starting earlier. He couldn't be more right. He's telling you the truth, you're just not listening, or don't want to hear it. I'd ask yourself why, frankly.

Q: You know what else is a reality-based fact, that wasn't true when we were younger, but is a day-to-day aspect of parenting in modern times?

A: That your elementary school kids ask their parents why priests are raping children? And why the church lets them get away with it?

Because this is literally in the news almost every day now. And they get the news in their classrooms too. Not just at home, where at least I can turn off the radio or TV if something alarming or gruesome is blaring. Do I wish that weren't happening, yes I do. I wish I could better offer my children a carefree youth, and more time to just be kids and play around and grow up (and go thru puberty) slower. But I can't.

Obviously, it's better the topics come up earlier, and more publically (i.e. with healthy adults and peers in non-taboo non-sexualized circumstances) in both the family and educational context... many years before it might be forced on them by some molester creep priest or the proverbial "uncle touchy."

And there are sadly a LOT of creeps and child molesters out there. I mean, this is not academic, it's empiric: this is reality, not imaginary. One need only look at the public sex offender maps (which we should literally thank the government for) to see how common, how real, how local the registered sex offenders are in California. And those are just the criminals, who got caught! How many more must be out there, who haven't been caught? In generations past we were literally ignorant of how pervasive child abuse was. We're not now, and that's not a "for better or worse" thing, it's strictly for the better. Knowing is good. Ignorance is dangerous.

And the cure for ignorance is education. This is simple.

And blaming education (or learning) for ANYTHING is backward, no offense. Not just pointless but demonstrably, logically, ethically, and morally wrong.

Anyone who argues otherwise is arguing, by extension, we should not know and/or not teach our children which mushrooms are poisonous, or that some snakes can kill you, or teach moms thalidomide makes flippers etc. Should we not teach kids guns are dangerous when used carelessly? Is K-3 "too young" to teach gun safety? Of course not. We all understand the reality, and teach what's needed, when it's needed. But

in the case of sex ed, or early puberty, you seem to be disagreeing with reality. Truth is not subjective, so in this case, your opinion is just wrong. I'm calling you out on that, because while you're entitled to your opinion, and free to associate with other wrong-thinkers... you're not entitled to freedom from facts. Feel free to argue (or loathe) my opinions. But facts are facts.

When I see those book pages you posted, I can totally see why they might alarm some people. Especially people without young children. I see a kids book, about reality. Two clicks on YouTube or Netflix, kids see infinitely worse, every day.

To wrap up... given this is the religion forum, I think we ought to have more earnest conversations with each other about how we can all help our children and our communities in an increasingly turbulent and sometimes downright scary world. (Terrorism, school shootings, natural disasters like recent fires etc.)

What role is the best role for religion, the church, the family, our public vs private schools, going forward? Because sadly it seems to be the case that what we've been doing over the last hundred years or so, didn't work, in the case of our churches and their lack of moral leadership... with regards child abuse specifically.

Bringing this back to the sex ed topic, as a dad, I'll literally be damned before I let my kids proceed into the future -- to come of age -- ignorant of basic facts of life, nature, whatever you want to call the reality of how their bodies work. Let alone allow them to feel shame or sin or gross for being human. Or asking. Let alone letting a priest or other fact-denier/science-denier have a chance to lie to my kids, before I or their teachers have taught them the truth.

Anyway, I apologize in advance if this post feels like an assault on you. Or if any of my vocab choices feel like insults. It's not YOU I'm railing against here.

So what am I railing against? It's primarily the denial of the fact that kids are starting puberty earlier these days (which, to repeat: they really are); and secondarily, the implicit supposition that we can accomplish anything good by promoting ignorance of any kind, non-teaching, about biology and bodies... especially when our kids are already getting cluster-bombed with an almost overwhelming variety of sexualization in their toys, clothes, media, music etc. It seems to me, like the literal least we can do, to equip them with non-sexualized answers to their age-appropriate questions. At whatever age the questions surface. And for some kids, that's shockingly early, because puberty is starting shockingly early, for some kids. It just is.

Best wishes

p.s. Related tangent: unless we want to have a truly contentious internet debate, don't even get me started on active-shooter school safety, in school, for K-3 kids. Because my kids (7 and 9) have already had to spend time at school being taught how to stay alive if there's a shooter in their school. And there's no parent opt-out on that. It's mandatory. And that's probably a good thing. Which is sadly a similar issue to this early puberty topic, in that man oh man... of course I wish 100% it weren't happening like this, to them, on our watch. But it is. And we gotta be realistic about that. Especially those of us who are enthusiastic about firearms, and want to raise the next generation of responsible Americans. And so I'll close here as a dad, asking those of us on the CalGuns forum who aren't parents, to step back a bit from the extremes of personal preference, and adult political or sectarian philosophy etc, and just have some basic empathy and charity of heart when kids are involved. Hopefully we can all agree actual kids are infinitely more important, than winning internet arguments.
Who is promoting ignorance here? Most of us are not advocating the elimination of sexual education. Most of us are saying that it is a parent's job to have that discussion. You can't be this willfully obtuse.
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  #35  
Old 03-23-2019, 6:12 AM
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@hkmp5
I'm wondering what percentage of K-3 kids are going through puberty. I'm guessing it's not high. And is it beneficial to expose all the other kids to things that they don't need to know yet, for the benefit of the few?

Nothing is stopping the parents of those early puberty kids from educating them at home rather than the State mandating exposure to the whole?
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Old 03-24-2019, 2:37 PM
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I see zero wrong with those books your posted. Like others have posted, its not uncommon for females to begin puberty at 8 (My wife says she did). 8 years old is typical for 2nd grade. This looks like solid, but basic means of education aimed at chilren. Even the cartoons do a good way to depicting to the child a good way to inspect and learn about their own bodies. I think it's important for the state to provide some education like this. So many have parents that either aren't present, or will refuse to teach children anything til its too late, they've already learned it all on youtube or more dark corner of the internet. This starts a conversation that can be finished at home.

As far as the "left is trying to destroy the world" agenda someone mentioned, you're really far from reality my friend. Try meeting someone who is left of center and having a general conversation with them. You'll find they share a lot of the same values as you do, but may seek different ways of attaining them. This whole "they are the soulless enemy" mentality is exactly what those in power want you to think. The media portrays only the extremes of both the left and right. Try to remember the majority of people are much more central in their beliefs/politics.
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Old 03-25-2019, 4:26 AM
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They are the souless enemy. It should be education not indoctrination. Parents need to decide when these things should happen and where. Not at the whim of faceless bureaucrats.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
They are the souless enemy. It should be education not indoctrination. Parents need to decide when these things should happen and where. Not at the whim of faceless bureaucrats.
Alrighty then..... well thought out response. You're literally doing exactly what those faceless bureaucrats want.

What part of the OP's books is indoctrination??? The problem with parents deciding, is that it has been shown that a lot of parents suck, and children suffer because of it. Children may never be taught, or taught too late. As a society we decided that SOME things are better if government steps in.

Why even send your kids to school at all if you disagree?
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:17 AM
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Looks like child porn.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:35 PM
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Freedom demands that we do all in our power to decrease the power and influence of government. This includes allowing government to educate our children. All entities seek out their own self interests. With government it is to get people addicted to government. I'd rather have crappy parents educating the children than government.
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