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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#762
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1) The (3 judge) Panel Badly Misconstrued Hawaii’s Open-Carry Law. The open carry licenses are not limited to "Security Guards", despite the fact that nobody but security guards have been issued open carry licenses. 2) The Panel’s Decision Splits From The Decisions Of At Least Four Circuits. Other circuits have determined that the open carry is not the core of the 2A, so it doesn't jive with what everyone else has said. 3) The (3 judge) Panel Flouted The EnBanc Court’s Decision In Peruta. They claim that Peruta indicated the there is no right to bear outside the home, which is a mischaracterization of what Peruta actually said. 4) This Issue Is Profoundly Important. It is super-duper important for public safety to keep firearms off the streets, so, you have to reverse the 3 judge panels decision. That about covers it.
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#763
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#764
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First Amicus Brief filed. Its a history brief by San Diego County Gun Owners
https://www.scribd.com/document/3934...s-Amicus-Brief SD Gun owners is a small local group Yet they stepped up and filed a very important historical brief to refute the Everytown brief. Please consider donating a couple dollars to them. A Big Thanks to Attorney John Dillon and SD County Gun Owners President Michael Schwartz for lending aid. As a San Diego resident I really appreciate their help. Last edited by wolfwood; 11-17-2018 at 7:27 AM.. |
#765
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Wolfwood is there another link that does not require us to sign up to read the brief ?
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Tolerate allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again |
#766
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sorry that is my only way of putting up the briefs. Give it a few days and Chuck will have the briefs up on his website.
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#768
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Tolerate allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. I write almost everything in a jovial manner regardless of content . If that's not how you took it please try again |
#769
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SDCGO
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I think even the late Sheriff Bill Kolender (bottom left) would have been moved!
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Last edited by marcusrn; 11-17-2018 at 2:28 AM.. |
#770
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http://californiaopencarry.com/wp-co...?189db0&189db0 And here is Mr. Nichols' site with all the Young documents: http://californiaopencarry.com/young...-on-9-14-2018/ |
#771
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But the state wants to convince everyone to believe they'll do something they have yet to do. Just trust them. |
#773
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The one person I know of who applied for open carry after the AG "opinion" was denied, ostensibly because he failed to provide sufficient evidence "that he or she has a need for protection that substantially exceeds that held by ordinary law-abiding citizens". So, to summarize, no "ordinary citizen" in Hawaii has, as far as we know, EVER been granted a license to lawfully exercise their right to bear arms outside their home or business. That won't change until there is some kind of precisely-worded inescapable ruling from a court requiring the legislature and police departments to recognize the rights of ordinary citizens. Don't hold your breath. |
#774
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Thanks for that info.
Thinking a bit more, if open carry remains the right from the ruling does “good cause” stand or is it de facto overriden? Seems like if open carry is the right and the right is infringed, HI law has to be struck down. Does this case mention good cause? I don’t remember. |
#775
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However, the 3 judge panel's opinion would be controlling authority, and no one can plausibly read it as green-lighting may issue. If that were the case then the state wouldn't need to try for en banc. Just allow the case to go back to the District Court and "find" that Young didn't prove a "good cause" for a license. |
#776
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Thanks guys for the synopsis! So if it’s remanded back to the District Court they would have to use the applied standard (basically, hey, here’s how you should have ruled) and then it stays precedent in the 9th. If the en banc occurs and affirms (or remands with a different standard) the District Court then it would have to be appealed to SCOTUS?
UOC seems to strike at the core of self defense, as would keeping one out of the chamber, so I would reckon the UOC is not a substitute. But we’ll save that for another day. |
#777
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#778
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Amicus Briefs Got filed. Spent all day in Court so I haven't had a chance to read them.
4 more and waiting on one more. https://www.scribd.com/document/3936...F-Amicus-Brief https://www.scribd.com/document/3936...Cal-Guns-Brief https://www.scribd.com/document/3936...A-Amicus-Brief https://www.scribd.com/document/3936...oung-HRA-Brief If you only read one read the last one. It gives you a lot of insight into the Big Island. Shout out to Bum Bum and Paladin. HFC's counsel used the CCCW map you made. its in pages 29-35 of the addendum https://www.scribd.com/document/3936...oung-HFC-Brief Last edited by wolfwood; 11-20-2018 at 2:27 AM.. |
#779
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Are these briefs organized by you or can groups simply submit whatever they wish? Thanks for what you do. I love reading these briefs. |
#780
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the groups are allowed to submit whatever they want. |
#781
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Subscribe to my YouTube channel ---->http://www.youtube.com/user/2A4USA |
#782
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I think it is also important to note that as far as the Sheriff of Hawaii is concerned, all that the Young decision requires is that applications by non-security personnel to be considered, but that the "good cause" standard still applies. Young's post-decision application for a carry permit was denied. |
#783
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I just filed a sur-reply.. A surreply s a reply to their reply. I basically am asking permission to file the brief. Then I attached the brief I want to file.
https://www.scribd.com/document/3938...Filed-Surreply I relief heavily on the information obtained by the Hawaii Firearms coalition through a series of UIPA request which is Hawaii's equivalent of the Freedom of Information Act. Please like their page on facebook and consider joining. http://hifico.org/ https://www.facebook.com/hificoorg Last edited by wolfwood; 11-21-2018 at 3:04 PM.. |
#784
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Then explain why cert was denied to Norman. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#785
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How will the district court (with a straight face) rule that Young isn't entitled to a carry permit? |
#786
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Easy, a straight face means nothing.
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#787
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Just because no one ("ordinary law-abiding citizen") has ever gotten such a license in the past, and that no one will ever get one in the future, doesn't mean that it's not a logical possibility, it's just not a possibility in reality, and that reality is in conformance with the law (lawful "regulation") because there is the theoretical possibility that someone somewhere someday somehow could get one. Therefore, the right to bear arms has not been infringed. Q.E.D. |
#788
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#789
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"No one can lawfully bear arms" fulfills the requisite "may not be infringed" clause of the Second Amendment. That's what passes for logic these days. |
#792
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Look on the bright side. Trump might stack the 9th in our favor by then.
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WTB: 2.5” Colt Python 2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19 2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 66 4" Smith & Wesson Model 19 3.5" Smith & Wesson Model 29 Colt Series 70 1911 Sig Sauer West German P228 Glock Gen5 19/17/34 MOS |
#793
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Anyone have a link that would show which 9th judges seats will open up and when?
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#794
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Trump's nominee and appointment from Hawaii garnered the full support of both senators, Hirono and Schatz, two of the most "progressive" members of the U.S. Senate, so I don't think we can expect much support from him. Let's hope Trump's other nominees are more on our side. Even then, no guarantees when it comes to the second-class Second Amendment. |
#795
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Yep, lifetime appointment. Today I learned something new.
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Last edited by scbauer; 11-28-2018 at 8:56 AM.. |
#796
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#797
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There’s an ongoing thread about it. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1443232
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WTB: 2.5” Colt Python 2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 19 2.5" Smith & Wesson Model 66 4" Smith & Wesson Model 19 3.5" Smith & Wesson Model 29 Colt Series 70 1911 Sig Sauer West German P228 Glock Gen5 19/17/34 MOS |
#798
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Neal Katyal is being paid 185 thousand to defend young according to this fee schedule obtained through a UIPA request . Note he just came on for the en banc proceedings
https://www.scribd.com/document/3944...erts-Documents |
#799
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In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice. |
#800
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And the State of Hawaii's Office of Attorney General, funded by the taxpayers, is spending up to $185K on an outside firm for the en banc proceedings and possibly the USSC if it goes that far. Or more $$, if the firm provides notice of a likelihood of exceeding the cap and the OAG agrees. Seems legit. Shame Katyal didn't get a sweet multi-million dollar retainer similar to Eric Holder's deal with CA. |
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