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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mendo223 View Post
trust me i do NOT want to register, however i own several AR pistols under SSE excemption, i think this will draw a red flag if i don't register them.

My other ARs i guess can be converted to featureless...

Honestly this whole **** is a mindf*ck......i don't want to register but i also don't want to get raided.
People are still submitting VolReg forms for home-built AR pistols today, and will for the next 10 working days using their own serial numbers, and then for another 6 months using the FMBUS numbers.
There is nothing unique to your AR SSE that would throw a flag any more than any other SSE DROS that was submitted.
Just install a 2017-compliant magazine lock and you're fine.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #162  
Old 06-17-2018, 11:01 AM
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Another thought on registration, either Volreg or AW; it provides a Government issued proof that you are the legal owner.
I registered a Colt AR 15 back in early 90's as an AW. I had purchased it at a gun show for cash with no receipt. Last year I built an AR Carbine as featureless+fixed magazine and found it to be better for my purposes than my Colt RAW. In selling my Colt AW to a Nevada FFL, the fact that I had paper showing that I had a Calif Legal AW made the sale possible. Some type of paper showing that you are the legal owner is required. Possibly just a receipt showing your name and address would have worked, but a lot of us don't have receipts. I guess I could have tried to sell it to a private party, with all the risks that that entails but chose not to take that risk.
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  #163  
Old 06-17-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by W62vette View Post
In selling my Colt AW to a Nevada FFL, the fact that I had paper showing that I had a Calif Legal AW made the sale possible. Some type of paper showing that you are the legal owner is required.
That's a new one.
That's not even required to sell a gun in California.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #164  
Old 06-17-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by W62vette View Post
Another thought on registration, either Volreg or AW; it provides a Government issued proof that you are the legal owner.
I registered a Colt AR 15 back in early 90's as an AW. I had purchased it at a gun show for cash with no receipt. Last year I built an AR Carbine as featureless+fixed magazine and found it to be better for my purposes than my Colt RAW. In selling my Colt AW to a Nevada FFL, the fact that I had paper showing that I had a Calif Legal AW made the sale possible. Some type of paper showing that you are the legal owner is required. Possibly just a receipt showing your name and address would have worked, but a lot of us don't have receipts. I guess I could have tried to sell it to a private party, with all the risks that that entails but chose not to take that risk.
OMFG, what would you sell a full featured AR-15? do you really need several hundreds dollars?
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  #165  
Old 06-17-2018, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by W62vette View Post
Another thought on registration, either Volreg or AW; it provides a Government issued proof that you are the legal owner.
I registered a Colt AR 15 back in early 90's as an AW. I had purchased it at a gun show for cash with no receipt. Last year I built an AR Carbine as featureless+fixed magazine and found it to be better for my purposes than my Colt RAW. In selling my Colt AW to a Nevada FFL, the fact that I had paper showing that I had a Calif Legal AW made the sale possible. Some type of paper showing that you are the legal owner is required. Possibly just a receipt showing your name and address would have worked, but a lot of us don't have receipts. I guess I could have tried to sell it to a private party, with all the risks that that entails but chose not to take that risk.
So far as I know you wouldn't be able to sell the Colt AW in CA. You're the "end of the line" for legal ownership in CA. The "risks" referenced would be substantial - forever linked to the gun and dependent upon its owners never doing anything wrong.

I suspect CA gunowners who are selling their ARs and alike out of state as an alternative to registering or re-configuring aren't exactly getting top dollar from the NV, AZ and OR gun stores. The market isn't particularly hot anyway and the perception (reality) of a motivated CA seller doesn't help.

I don't know the legalities and haven't tried, but I'd be inclined to take a friend to his LGS in OR and hand to him whatever I wanted to sell, have him cut the deal directly. Over the years I've never seen a LGS ask a local for documentation.
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  #166  
Old 06-17-2018, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
I don't know the legalities and haven't tried, but I'd be inclined to take a friend to his LGS in OR and hand to him whatever I wanted to sell, have him cut the deal directly. Over the years I've never seen a LGS ask a local for documentation.
Federal law requires that interstate transfers:
1 - Involve an FFL (01, 02, 03, or 07)
2 - Follow the laws of the states involved

In this case, the transfer would go through an Oregon FFL. California has no law that requires that transfers to other states go through a California FFL, so your example would be legal, assuming that Oregon has not yet passed their version of California's assault weapon laws.
Even in California, someone from out of state may legally walk into an FFL with the buyer, however, it is treated as an FFL transfer, not a PPT, so the $35 limit does not apply.

In California's case, they require that the involved FFL be a California FFL if the buyer is a California resident. If you live in most states in Free America, you can go into any Walmart in any state and buy an AR15 OTC and return to your home state with it.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #167  
Old 06-17-2018, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
And the name-calling comes out when the arguments fall apart.

You do realize that the form 4473 is a type of registration, right? So either you have no legally-acquired MSRs, or you are, as you put it, a what?
The 4473 is not the same. It is mandatory to get the firearm in the first place. Registering your gun this time is voluntary. You will be first on the list for confiscation.

Fools register.
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  #168  
Old 06-17-2018, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
You do realize that the form 4473 is a type of registration, right? So either you have no legally-acquired MSRs, or you are, as you put it, a what?
4473 is not registration.
It remains in the FFL's files unless and until they cease doing business, at which point it is all boxed up and shipped to Washington.
BATFE may review 4473s during an audit, but they are not entered into any type of centralized database.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #169  
Old 06-17-2018, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
The 4473 is not the same. It is mandatory to get the firearm in the first place. Registering your gun this time is voluntary. You will be first on the list for confiscation.

Fools register.
So you have not purchased a long gun in California since 2014 or a handgun since 1991?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #170  
Old 06-17-2018, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Syntax Error View Post
OP, how do you determine the current CRIS number to determine a rough daily rate?
Yeah, I'd like to know where this BS number came from. The math simply doesn't add up. I think we have a troll people!!

Thordo
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  #171  
Old 06-18-2018, 3:16 PM
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Coke bottle, can you read. One is a mandatory registration. The other is voluntary and done by fools.

This is why Kali is screwed. No critical thinking or reading comprehension
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  #172  
Old 06-18-2018, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
Coke bottle, can you read. One is a mandatory registration. The other is voluntary and done by fools.

This is why Kali is screwed. No critical thinking or reading comprehension
Cokebottle was asking you if you had purchased a handgun since 1991 or a long gun since 2014. If you have you're had your guns registered with the state, thus setting yourself up for confiscation. Fools may register, but if you answer "yes" to either or both of his questions, you've registered.

Last edited by Dirk Tungsten; 06-18-2018 at 3:36 PM..
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  #173  
Old 06-18-2018, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
Coke bottle, can you read. One is a mandatory registration. The other is voluntary and done by fools.

This is why Kali is screwed. No critical thinking or reading comprehension
Mandatory is even worse. You have no choice! How can you live with that?

You prolly don't have any real guns. Put the orange things back on the barrels of your toys and pipe down with the name-calling.
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  #174  
Old 06-18-2018, 3:54 PM
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Anyone reading this thread thinking about sending their registration at the last few hours might want to think twice. It just took me 4 hours to get the information entered and uploaded for 3 ARs.

If you are filling out the forms, pause after clicking on the drop down menus as several trigger other input fields to appear, eventually... some take more than 5-6 minutes to appear.

Most importantly, double check everything you entered remains checked prior to submitting the final. I had to go back and edit a couple of times because some items decided to clear themselves out after uploading pictures.
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  #175  
Old 06-18-2018, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
Coke bottle, can you read. One is a mandatory registration. The other is voluntary and done by fools.

This is why Kali is screwed. No critical thinking or reading comprehension
if you are capable of critical thinking, answer these question.

why CA-DOJ is trying to make registration very difficult? and stay very quiet about it?

does confiscation really need that much information? 4 photos?

why did people line up in gun stores to buy AR/AK, and lowers before 2017?

BB was a smart way to avoid AW status, but they outlawed it. what makes you believe grip wraps, mag locks will be safe?

there are featureless ar/ak with standard mag releases at almost all gun stores. why would those politicians slap their faces to go after those RBBAW which is a possession protected by the laws writen/passed by the same group of people?

are you smart enough to convert a featureless into a AW with basic tools and little money (not more then 100)? if yes, do you consider yourself a genius, a smart guy, an average person, below average or a retard?
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  #176  
Old 06-18-2018, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Thordo View Post
Yeah, I'd like to know where this BS number came from. The math simply doesn't add up. I think we have a troll people!!

Thordo
I covered it earlier in the thread, the CRIS numbers advance by about 100K a day, but there's no way there's that many registrations. The real number seems to be about 150 / day.
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  #177  
Old 06-18-2018, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stormtrooperx View Post
I covered it earlier in the thread, the CRIS numbers advance by about 100K a day, but there's no way there's that many registrations. The real number seems to be about 150 / day.
You don’t have to explain it to a merchant whose main products are featureless parts.

After converting, you probably gonna ask yourself why the heck there is an ar lower receiver.

I do like their saddles for ar/ak pistols, but their featureless stocks are the ugliest so far. Why people torment themselves for the sake of owning an ar lower which is widely available at gun store with no purchase limit.
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  #178  
Old 06-18-2018, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SmallShark View Post

BB was a smart way to avoid AW status, but they outlawed it. what makes you believe grip wraps, mag locks will be safe?
I think most of us recognize they won't be safe. For two reasons, both linked to candidate Newsom being elected governor. First, he has already spoken of eliminating the "AW loophole" which I presume means featureless or fixed mag or both; and he intends to sign a bill banning all semi-auto centerfire rifles in CA. So regardless of what one does now there will be more to come and none of us knows just what it will be.
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  #179  
Old 06-18-2018, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
I think most of us recognize they won't be safe. For two reasons, both linked to candidate Newsom being elected governor. First, he has already spoken of eliminating the "AW loophole" which I presume means featureless or fixed mag or both; and he intends to sign a bill banning all semi-auto centerfire rifles in CA. So regardless of what one does now there will be more to come and none of us knows just what it will be.
Well said.

I’m not saying registration will be safe forever, but RBBAW won’t be target until the gun stores are all cleared.
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  #180  
Old 06-19-2018, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
In one degree or another you could say every option apart from running a standard mag release unregistered is "doing what your CA master's want"
Right. No Good Choices:

Children in cages temporarily or child trafficking.

Sorry. Different bad choices.
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  #181  
Old 06-19-2018, 5:07 PM
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***** POSSIBLE STUPID QUESTION WARNING*******

1) Will sending the lower receiver to my son in AZ via FFL suffice if CA gets stupider on laws or do I have to send the entire weapon?

2) Its been 2 weeks since I registered my AR, still says "IN PROCESS", anything to worry?

Thanks!
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  #182  
Old 06-19-2018, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
The 4473 is not the same. It is mandatory to get the firearm in the first place. Registering your gun this time is voluntary. You will be first on the list for confiscation.

Fools register.
Naw, I think I will be
#9,875,512 on the list.
It will take a while to get to me because my last name starts with "S". Usually that is a bad thing because I always have to wait and wait but this time as I see people whose last name begins with "A" complain here on Calguns about their guns getting confiscated I will pack up the U-Haul with all 400 firearms I own (or is that 500?) and B-line to a freedom state where the man with the perfect hair that never tips up in the wind and who has wardrobe malfunctions where his P-e-N-i-S accidentally falls out of his pants when when he is alone with his best friends wives is not governor.
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  #183  
Old 06-19-2018, 5:52 PM
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What is it you guys are registering?
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  #184  
Old 06-19-2018, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tangojay View Post
1) Will sending the lower receiver to my son in AZ via FFL suffice if CA gets stupider on laws or do I have to send the entire weapon?
Currently, in California, the definition of "firearm" does not extend beyond the serialized frame (other than in reference to prohibited persons in possession).
Merely separating the upper and lower legally renders the "firearm" no longer semiautomatic, therefor exempt from California AW laws.

If you do want to send your rifles to your son in AZ, they would have to go through an FFL, however, if you have a safe in his home that he does not have access to, you may hand carry and store your guns there. Probably the best option if you intend to leave CA soon.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #185  
Old 06-19-2018, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
….If you live in most states in Free America, you can go into any Walmart in any state and buy an AR15 OTC and return to your home state with it.
Well maybe, except Walmart stopped selling AR15s last year.
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  #186  
Old 06-19-2018, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
What is it you guys are registering?

Well, I have one of those wheeled rubber band guns that holds like 60 rubber bands.

…..then there is that nerf gun I have that is a semi-automatic that has 20 round magazines....

….then there is that full auto airsoft MP5 replica....

…...and so on and so on...


Lots and lots to register. I better get on registering these.
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  #187  
Old 06-19-2018, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Well, I have one of those wheeled rubber band guns that holds like 60 rubber bands.

…..then there is that nerf gun I have that is a semi-automatic that has 20 round magazines....

….then there is that full auto airsoft MP5 replica....

…...and so on and so on...


Lots and lots to register. I better get on registering these.
60 rubber bands? You sicko baby killer.
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  #188  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:27 PM
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What is it you guys are registering?
My car is registered.
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  #189  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
My car is registered.
Registration = confiscation of your Prius
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  #190  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:35 AM
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it has been 26 years since the first registration.
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  #191  
Old 06-20-2018, 6:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SmallShark View Post
it has been 26 years since the first registration.
It will be less than 2 years before the next registration I bet. Featureless is next?

Then it's single shots turn.

All in the name of safety. While actual criminals are being released early, and future criminals are allowed entry in the name of "humanity".
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  #192  
Old 06-20-2018, 7:28 AM
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Registration = confiscation of your Prius
Not me! I converted one to featureless!

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  #193  
Old 06-20-2018, 8:44 AM
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Registration = confiscation of your Prius
This would probably actually do more to enhance public safety than all the firearm laws we have
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  #194  
Old 06-20-2018, 8:47 AM
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Just to go back to the original question. Are CRIS figures for every transaction in the state including dealer sales? If there are 100,000 transactions per month at 1.2 million per year could we then (in the future of course) average 2017 / 2018 gun sales and then subtract those from the 1.2 million?

Looking back at 2016 there were 1.3 million sold. When the 2017 and 2018 numbers come in I bet the average will be a little over half that. If say 850,000 was the average could we then assume the total registered was in the neighborhood of 350,000?
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  #195  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:52 AM
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It'll be interesting to see if CADOJ shares the actual number after the final applications have been completed.
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  #196  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
Gonna have to hire a lot more DOJ agents to seize guns from innocent people trying to do what the government told them they must...
The pos government employees will !
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  #197  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:00 PM
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i registered 6 guns with my wife so we got 12 CRIS numbers total.

so 2 numbers per gun for my household.


if there are 100K new numbers per day, even at the rate of 10 numbers per gun, it is still 10K guns per day


i highly doubt there will be another registration.
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  #198  
Old 06-21-2018, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
Just to go back to the original question. Are CRIS figures for every transaction in the state including dealer sales? If there are 100,000 transactions per month at 1.2 million per year could we then (in the future of course) average 2017 / 2018 gun sales and then subtract those from the 1.2 million?

Looking back at 2016 there were 1.3 million sold. When the 2017 and 2018 numbers come in I bet the average will be a little over half that. If say 850,000 was the average could we then assume the total registered was in the neighborhood of 350,000?
This is where I was headed with the original post though my understanding of how the numbering system worked was in error. I thought the CRIS number applied only to registrations, when apparently it is used on all transactions. Still it comes down to mathematics. If you know the total number of transactions you know that the registration number cannot exceed that number. So it's a matter of taking the total transaction number and subtracting potentially known or discoverable ones (weapon sales for example?) thereby eventually closing in on the actual registration number. At least that's my take on it.

My original thought was getting a handle on whether a system overload might occur at the end (how long I could put off having to deal with the mess).
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  #199  
Old 06-21-2018, 7:37 AM
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Don't deal with the mess. Don't register. Go fixed mag for the easiest and least intrusive solution. Lots of great options out there.
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  #200  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Don't deal with the mess. Don't register. Go fixed mag for the easiest and least intrusive solution. Lots of great options out there.
that is what the CADOJ wants you to do.
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