Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > California handguns
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:28 AM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default Striker Fired Evaluations: M&P, P320, G17

I've owned each of these pistols for some time now, but have not done an evaluation of them together. Independently, I like them all and think I like the M&P the most, but I need to do a side by side.

For this purpose, I've made them as similar as possible (modifications to my liking and to suit my needs). I typically do not alter triggers beyond the factory parts. Maybe a little polishing, but that's it.

For now, a little teaser and description. I will begin heavy testing over the next few weeks. All will be tested in 9mm (although I do have full caliber conversions for each). All will be utilizing the "standard" FS variant of the models.

You can find more detail on these pistols in my various threads and postings.


1. S&W M&P 4.25" barrel (I will omit using the 5" PRO CORE slide for fairness)
- Pro sear installed
- H-trigger bar
- New slide stop
- Stippled back strap (small)
- Talon rubber grip wrap
- StormLake 40-9 conversion barrel
- Dawson Precision red fiber optic sights / Black rear
*** TLR-1 will be removed before testing


2. Sig Sauer P320 4.7" barrel
- Post voluntary upgrade (skeletonized striker, lightweight trigger, sear safety, etc...)
- OEM grip (small)
- OEM barrel
- Dawson Precision red fiber optic sights / Black rear


3. Glock 17 Gen3 4.49" barrel
- Gen 5 "DOT" connector
- $0.25 trigger job
- Extended slide stop (not sure if I like this or not)
- Scalloped mag release
- Triggerguard undercuts
- Finger groove removal
- Backstrap reduction
- Talon rubber grip wrap
- Zev TiN dimpled barrel
- Ameriglo Protector sights








Stay tuned.

Last edited by code_blue; 04-09-2018 at 11:07 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:48 AM
billped billped is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Norcal - East Bay
Posts: 1,979
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

The thread will inevitably be littered with the occasional Glock/Sig/S&W fanboy comments, but if we all ignore them this should be good.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:59 AM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billped View Post
The thread will inevitably be littered with the occasional Glock/Sig/S&W fanboy comments, but if we all ignore them this should be good.
Sadly, you're probably correct. Realistically, I am comparing for my personal use, but figured it might benefit someone else.

Based on the data that I have for each pistol's individual testing/experience, I like them all. They all function as intended and each have their little nuances that I dislike. For example, I liked the G17 more than I thought I would and I didn't like the P320 as much as I thought I would've. The M&P surprised the heck out of me and I've grown very fond of it.

I am sure that each will hold up to the testing. I'm not really sure what I'm looking for here. I just have not done a side-by-side with all three.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:01 AM
saudadeii's Avatar
saudadeii saudadeii is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,218
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I look forward to your updates. Will you put them in this thread or create separate linked ones?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:07 AM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saudadeii View Post
I look forward to your updates. Will you put them in this thread or create separate linked ones?
Here. The individual threads for these pistols are kind of scattered and mixed in other threads, so it's more simple here.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:08 AM
mjmagee67's Avatar
mjmagee67 mjmagee67 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Free America, Idaho.
Posts: 2,466
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

So your testing and comparing guns that you have modified? OK...
__________________
If you want change you have to put in your 2 cents, you can't just sit on the sidelines and whine.

Last edited by mjmagee67; 04-09-2018 at 3:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:00 PM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmagee67 View Post
So your test and compating guns that you have modified? OK...

Yes, wasn't that obvious?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:24 PM
etwinam's Avatar
etwinam etwinam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,283
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

I've done my own comparisons through out the years and I've realized my wants and needs have changed so often that each time it gives me new insight.

I started shooting on Glocks and then went to an XD followed by M&P. I fell in love with M&P as I prefer the thinner grip and control. Eventually I got tired of the lack of trigger reset even after an Apex upgrade. Ended up selling the XD. It was a good gun but I never much liked the higher bore and muzzle flip. Same thing with VP9 and PPQ. I picked up a P320 and loved the way it fit my hand however the trigger drove me crazy. It was lacking too much for me. Even after an Apex upgrade. Sold it and never looked back.

Eventually I circled back to an M&P with the 2.0 and I didn't like the grip at first but the trigger reset problem was fixed. Went Glock for a while but really hated the grip block feel in the web of my hand. Finally had a range day with the M&P 2.0 and now it is my favorite and only remaining full sized polymer handgun.

So I like your comparison however realize your wants and needs will change and as they do so will your tastes in weaponry. Looking forward to seeing your side by side of course. Would be nice to see a VP9 or P10c and PPQ mixed up in there.
__________________
God, Guns & Integrity. Prioritize your Priorities.

WTB
P10F**
Browning BLR**

Last edited by etwinam; 04-09-2018 at 12:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:48 PM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by etwinam View Post
I've done my own comparisons through out the years and I've realized my wants and needs have changed so often that each time it gives me new insight.

I started shooting on Glocks and then went to an XD followed by M&P. I fell in love with M&P as I prefer the thinner grip and control. Eventually I got tired of the lack of trigger reset even after an Apex upgrade. Ended up selling the XD. It was a good gun but I never much liked the higher bore and muzzle flip. Same thing with VP9 and PPQ. I picked up a P320 and loved the way it fit my hand however the trigger drove me crazy. It was lacking too much for me. Even after an Apex upgrade. Sold it and never looked back.

Eventually I circled back to an M&P with the 2.0 and I didn't like the grip at first but the trigger reset problem was fixed. Went Glock for a while but really hated the grip block feel in the web of my hand. Finally had a range day with the M&P 2.0 and now it is my favorite and only remaining full sized polymer handgun.

So I like your comparison however realize your wants and needs will change and as they do so will your tastes in weaponry. Looking forward to seeing your side by side of course. Would be nice to see a VP9 or P10c and PPQ mixed up in there.

I still have a traditional DA/SA preference with P-series Sigs being my ideal ( I would probably never get rid of these). The only other true DA/SA I have other than the P-Series is the HK P2000, but only because of lighter weight carry. The striker series of pistols was relatively new (within the last 2 years).

Perhaps that is what I am looking for: a reason to go to one striker platform that I shoot very often v. multiple to go back and forth. Realistically, they all do the same thing and they do it well. It's a matter of which will work best for my needs. I could say that I would gravitate towards the M&P since the Shield is one of my primary carries, but it's not exactly the same as the standard M&P models.


Triple serialed Germans as a bonus (Top clockwise):
P228
P226 (Very hard to get P226 "Classic Carry" Grips)
P229


Last edited by code_blue; 04-09-2018 at 12:51 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:51 PM
Gregchico's Avatar
Gregchico Gregchico is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nor Kal, Oroville
Posts: 2,131
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

What are you testing and evaluating for? Just how they feel in your hand after changes? If they survive a carpet drop?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-09-2018, 1:07 PM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregchico View Post
What are you testing and evaluating for? Just how they feel in your hand after changes? If they survive a carpet drop?

Carpet drop survival is mandatory, obviously. They all feel fine, so no. The Glock was the only one that I felt the need to make extensive modifications to for it to feel "natural" in my hands.

I will be testing for overall practicality and intuitive functionality of the pistols during the drills that I will be running. The weather is warmer so public land is open for pretending to be a high speed/low drag operator.

Fun fact: Both the M&P and G17 have the slam the mag/auto-slide forward bonus, but the Sig does not. Could be because the Sig is the "newest" of the three in build date/use/generation or it could be that Sig's design doesn't allow for it. I know that the M&P 2.0's design prevents this. I like the ability to do this, so that's already a negative on the P320. Perhaps it will develop after many more rounds.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-09-2018, 1:10 PM
The Shootist's Avatar
The Shootist The Shootist is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SGV/ Escaping to Nevada 5-21-18
Posts: 1,847
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

I for one appreciate your comparison...Thank you if for nothing else a little entertainment and see how your comparison is to my personal one as I own all three of the ones you mentioned above. Have fun at the range thats the best part.
__________________
NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE MEMBER
CRPA MEMBER
FIREARMS POLICY COALITION MEMBER
CGN CONTRIBUTOR
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-09-2018, 2:52 PM
ruddogg's Avatar
ruddogg ruddogg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 2,476
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

thx OP looking forward to the comparison.

I have the P320, I wasn't overly fond of the trigger, since the PPQ is my EDC...So I sent the P320 to Grayguns....it's night & day... they work wonders with the P320.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-09-2018, 3:03 PM
Lonestargrizzly's Avatar
Lonestargrizzly Lonestargrizzly is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,366
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

If you shoot one with a wml and two without, that doesnt seem fair.
Wml on all or none.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-09-2018, 3:24 PM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
If you shoot one with a wml and two without, that doesnt seem fair.
Wml on all or none.

Dang it, Grizz...

Quote:
1. S&W M&P 4.25" barrel (I will omit using the 5" PRO CORE slide for fairness)
- Pro sear installed
- H-trigger bar
- New slide stop
- Stippled back strap (small)
- Talon rubber grip wrap
- StormLake 40-9 conversion barrel
- Dawson Precision red fiber optic sights / Black rear
*** TLR-1 will be removed before testing
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-09-2018, 3:27 PM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruddogg View Post
thx OP looking forward to the comparison.

I have the P320, I wasn't overly fond of the trigger, since the PPQ is my EDC...So I sent the P320 to Grayguns....it's night & day... they work wonders with the P320.

I have found that to be the case too. I do not recall if it was any better prior to the voluntary upgrade.

I actually receive different feedback on the trigger depending on which slide I use. The original 9mm Compact slide was a Gen 1 with lots of slide lightening cuts and the feedback is light and crisp. The later production slides that I have give a dense, "thud" type feedback on the trigger pull. I do not notice this during live fire, but it is apparent during dry fire.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-09-2018, 5:38 PM
Lonestargrizzly's Avatar
Lonestargrizzly Lonestargrizzly is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,366
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
Dang it, Grizz...
If i learned anything in public school, it's that you don't have to read the words if there's pictures haha.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-09-2018, 9:05 PM
el_clingon el_clingon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,735
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Interesting review...at one time, I had all 3 firearms. I did love the M&P 9, it had a great ergos or for me at least, but I could not get used to the trigger, even when I added a APEX trigger, so I sold it. I had a Glock17, although it fit my hand in size, but hated the blocky grip, and I always shot low-left. funny thing is that I have a glock 19 and after custom work on the slide and grip I shoot it straight as an arrow. I have SIG P320C, and this is my 3rd one, and I just love it. I have a gen 2, and the trigger on it is great. it is smooth and has a great reset like my 229 legion. the funny thing again is that I can't shoot the full size very well, and it feel unbalanced when shooting. It is nice to hear others opinions of all three...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-09-2018, 9:31 PM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy 🔫
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ☠ Outside my Southern Comfort Zone ☠
Posts: 11,304
iTrader: 129 / 100%
Default

Throw in PPQ and VP9, M&P 2.0
__________________
.



"Texans always move them!"
General Robert E. Lee, May 6, 1864 - Battle of the Wilderness
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-09-2018, 9:36 PM
osis32's Avatar
osis32 osis32 is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,355
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

I don't have a dog in the fight. I've only does a first gen m&p out of that list and a third gen glock. I don't really like either however I disliked the m&p more. that trigger was unpleasant where the glock was just not very good to me. that hinged trigger on the m&p felt weird and was heavy and gritty.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-10-2018, 12:01 PM
riftol riftol is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 474
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
I've owned each of these pistols for some time now, but have not done an evaluation of them together. Independently, I like them all and think I like the M&P the most, but I need to do a side by side.
I have a G17 and a M&P chambered for the .45 ACP.

IMO, Glocks really would be perfect if they had the grip of the M&P.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-10-2018, 12:26 PM
deephouse's Avatar
deephouse deephouse is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: California
Posts: 3,454
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

I have somewhat of a similar lineup in my safe:

G19
Sig320
M&P 9C
FNS 9C

They are all fun to shoot, but out of the box i would say bone stock, that FNS 9C is a quality build.

Looking forward to your reviews!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-10-2018, 1:40 PM
JackRydden224's Avatar
JackRydden224 JackRydden224 is offline
Single stack pistol guy
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Irvine
Posts: 7,082
iTrader: 82 / 100%
Default

I have 4 M&Ps, a Shield, 1.0 5", 2.0 5" and Compact

After playing around with 1911s, 2011s and CZ I decided to go with the M&P platform as my primary. The mags are easy to get. The gun is plenty reliable. The after market is pretty good as well.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-10-2018, 2:11 PM
code_blue's Avatar
code_blue code_blue is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Moscow, Democratic People's Republik of Kaliforniazakstan
Posts: 2,780
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by el_clingon View Post
<snip>I have a gen 2, and the trigger on it is great. it is smooth and has a great reset like my 229 legion. the funny thing again is that I can't shoot the full size very well, and it feel unbalanced when shooting. It is nice to hear others opinions of all three...
I think that the P320's reset is a little anemic when compared to the Glock or M&P. I have found that to be the case as well with the FS. It could be that the 4.7" barrel makes it front heavy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Throw in PPQ and VP9, M&P 2.0
I've shot those and have found that I did not like them enough to own them. The 2.0 just didn't have enough of a drastic difference over the 1.0 to warrant a change. I actually found it to be less comfortable to shoot than the 1.0. Granted, I have also shot some of the original 1.0's with the hideous 200# triggers, but the latest PRO variant isn't bad at all. A little spongey, but not bad.



Quote:
Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
I don't have a dog in the fight. I've only does a first gen m&p out of that list and a third gen glock. I don't really like either however I disliked the m&p more. that trigger was unpleasant where the glock was just not very good to me. that hinged trigger on the m&p felt weird and was heavy and gritty.
I like the curvature of the M&P trigger. I detested the Glock trigger doohickie.



Quote:
Originally Posted by riftol View Post
<snip>IMO, Glocks really would be perfect if they had the grip of the M&P.
I agree and so does many others who use the Wolf or other type frames on the Glock platform.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:58 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.