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  #1  
Old 03-08-2018, 8:26 PM
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Default Suggesting for ear protection for HD

Iím looking to increase my effectiveness in a home defense situation. I primarily use a 9mm for HD. I worry about damage to my ears if I should ever have to fire in the confines of my home and obviously I have zero issue giving up my hearing to protect my life and the lives of the ones I love. However I worry about temporarily losing some effectiveness due to the noise should I need follow up shots or general awareness. Should I keep a set of muffs next to my HD gun? I hesitate to use any subsonic ammo, and I count on my JHP. Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 03-08-2018, 8:33 PM
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Howard leight earmuffs block gun shots but amplify normal sounds. Usually 40$ or so on sale. But honestly I wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve fired .300 win mags without hearing protection without noticeable issues. Don’t shoot 9mm daily without hearing protection and you should be fine. Firing a 9mm once indoors isn’t going to deafen you.
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Old 03-08-2018, 8:39 PM
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The Howard-Leight Impact Sports would work plus the sound amplification feature would allow you to hear virtually any noise your unwanted intruder(s) made.
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Old 03-08-2018, 8:41 PM
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electronic muffs are great, even for the range. I have a set of the cheap howard leights, and recently splurged on a set of peltor comtac III, primarily because they're a lot more comfortable for long term wear (I tend to get hot spots right above my ears from my eye protection being smashed into my temples by the ear protection).
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Old 03-08-2018, 8:46 PM
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I keep electronic ear pro right near a pistol. If there is time (it only takes 1-2 seconds) then all the better.

Hearing loss is cumulative. It depends on how much loss/damage you already have.
My ent is a shooter and also says he has seen patients who have lost all hearing in one ear from a single rifle shot. Oh the other hand some people hunt, or serve in the military, or go through self defense without major problems.

A single shot could give you tinnitus for the rest of your life........not fun. I have had it for 20 years and it got worse a few years ago. Hearing loss doesn't always show up right away.

Some people say that 45 acp does less damage due to lower pressure vs. 9mm. 9, 40, and 45 are all damn loud but similar and also not nearly as bad as rifles.

Hopefully, I can avoid every needing to fire in the kind of circumstance and I'll keep the ear pro handy just in case there is time for it. Beyond that, I suppose more hearing damage is better than potentially being paralyzed or killed by an attacker.
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2018, 8:49 PM
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There's no way I'm thinking about earmuffs if I'm in an HD situation.
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Old 03-08-2018, 8:56 PM
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I know itís not what you are asking about but my experience just under the stress of hunting I donít even hear the shot. Thatís not to say that damage is not done but under stress many if not most people experience auditory exclusion.

Like others have said when faced with the idea of lose of life or limb, I will deal with hearing loss if need be.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:04 PM
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if you don't have time, or forget to throw on hearing protection, I've heard that keeping your mouth slightly open while shooting helps equalize the pressure in your sinuses and possibly minimize hearing loss (or something like that)
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:05 PM
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Thanks for everyoneís input. I will definitly give up my hearing rather then deal with death or more serious injury but Iíd rather avoid all injury if the situation should allow. Iíll also look into the Howard leight Iíve heard theyíre a good brand.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:12 PM
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Not an invalid concern. I once made the mistake of adjusting the position on a earmuff cup and someone shot 9mm not too far away and my ear was ringing.

I don't think in such a scenario it will be bad enough to be disorienting and you likely won't have enough time for it.

However, I will say 45 and other low(er) pressure rounds seem to be quieter.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:19 PM
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Check these out too - nothing to turn on and no batteries to replace.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VU4OT7A..._0BIOAbXCKKK70
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2018, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach View Post
Iím looking to increase my effectiveness in a home defense situation. I primarily use a 9mm for HD. I worry about damage to my ears if I should ever have to fire in the confines of my home and obviously I have zero issue giving up my hearing to protect my life and the lives of the ones I love. However I worry about temporarily losing some effectiveness due to the noise should I need follow up shots or general awareness. Should I keep a set of muffs next to my HD gun? I hesitate to use any subsonic ammo, and I count on my JHP. Thanks for any suggestions.
Wouldn't subsonic ammo be just as loud without a suppressor? I thought it refers to the muzzle velocity being less than the speed of sound, not because they're quieter.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:50 PM
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Life and death situation? I don't want anything on my ears - you probably won't know how loud the gunshot is until after the situation is over.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach View Post
Iím looking to increase my effectiveness in a home defense situation. I primarily use a 9mm for HD. I worry about damage to my ears if I should ever have to fire in the confines of my home and obviously I have zero issue giving up my hearing to protect my life and the lives of the ones I love. However I worry about temporarily losing some effectiveness due to the noise should I need follow up shots or general awareness. Should I keep a set of muffs next to my HD gun? I hesitate to use any subsonic ammo, and I count on my JHP. Thanks for any suggestions.
The adrenaline rush masks the temporary hearing loss in the heat of the moment.
The time you will truly NEED a firearm in your home will usually be too short of a time to put on hearing protection, nor would you even WANT hearing protection as it would reduce your ability to hear whatever threat you may be trying to vet before you engage it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Wouldn't subsonic ammo be just as loud without a suppressor? I thought it refers to the muzzle velocity being less than the speed of sound, not because they're quieter.
Iím not super experienced with subsonics but for my 22s there is a world of difference between super and subsonic ammo and much more so with a suppressor. For 9mm Iíve shot subs thru a can and itís pretty quiet and without the suppressor they were still quieter then standard velocity 9mm.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Wouldn't subsonic ammo be just as loud without a suppressor?
I thought it refers to the muzzle velocity being less than the speed of sound, not because they're quieter.
No.
The SPL is directly related to the muzzle escape pressure, not the bullet's velocity.
Subsonic loads have VERY LOW muzzle escape pressures compared to full velocity loads.

The supersonic crack of the bullet is also part of what you hear, but there is also the supersonic crack of the gasses.
The general rule is that the gasses are going about 5x as fast as the bullet when it leaves the barrel.
So if you have a bullet that is subsonic, you don't get a crack from the BULLET, but you still get a small crack from the gasses.

If your bullet is going 2x-3x the speed of sound, the gasses are going MUCH faster when they leave and you get a much larger crack from the gasses exiting the barrel.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2018, 10:02 PM
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Get a suppressor
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Wouldn't subsonic ammo be just as loud without a suppressor? I thought it refers to the muzzle velocity being less than the speed of sound, not because they're quieter.
They may be slightly quieter, but I doubt anyone would notice the difference without actually taking decibel readings.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:09 PM
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They may be slightly quieter, but I doubt anyone would notice the difference without actually taking decibel readings.
Subsonic loads can be a LOT quieter.
Try 9gr of H110 under a 250gr SMK and then try 17gr of H110 under a 150gr FMJ, both in a 16" 300 blackout.
You can shoot the 1050fps 250's without hearing protection, but not the 150's at 2400fps.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Subsonic loads can be a LOT quieter.
Try 9gr of H110 under a 250gr SMK and then try 17gr of H110 under a 150gr FMJ, both in a 16" 300 blackout.
You can shoot the 1050fps 250's without hearing protection, but not the 150's at 2400fps.
But a 9mm subsonic isn’t as potent as a regular or +p 9mm home defense round right?

I’ve never fired 9mm subsonic ever in my life. Is it less reliable because of the reduced power?

Would it make more sense to switch caliber entirely to 45 acp as it’s normally subsonic?
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael777 View Post
But a 9mm subsonic isnít as potent as a regular or +p 9mm home defense round right?

Iíve never fired 9mm subsonic ever in my life. Is it less reliable because of the reduced power?

Would it make more sense to switch caliber entirely to 45 acp as itís normally subsonic?
Now you are opening the KE vs TKO debate.
Different can of worms...
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael777 View Post
But a 9mm subsonic isnít as potent as a regular or +p 9mm home defense round right?

Iíve never fired 9mm subsonic ever in my life. Is it less reliable because of the reduced power?

Would it make more sense to switch caliber entirely to 45 acp as itís normally subsonic?
Thatís why I would hesitate to use subs in a HD gun. I would worry about possible cyclical issues which are rare not to mention the majority of subs are FMJ with very few self defense options out there.
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Old 03-09-2018, 3:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael777 View Post
But a 9mm subsonic isnít as potent as a regular or +p 9mm home defense round right?

Iíve never fired 9mm subsonic ever in my life. Is it less reliable because of the reduced power?

Would it make more sense to switch caliber entirely to 45 acp as itís normally subsonic?
Most of the heavier (147grn) 9mm defensive rounds are subsonic. Speed of sound is 1125 FPS (sea level). Hornady 147 grn XTP JHPs are 975 fps (not sure length of reference barrel). Federal 147grn HSTs 1000FPS.
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Old 03-09-2018, 4:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach View Post
Thatís why I would hesitate to use subs in a HD gun. I would worry about possible cyclical issues which are rare not to mention the majority of subs are FMJ with very few self defense options out there.
Most target 9mm is just barely supersonic. As I said in the previous post, most heavy defensive ammo is subsonic.

Subsonic/Non will NOT cause cycling issues in and of itself. If you want subsonic go with heavier projectiles. They have an easier time cycling the action even though they use less powder (of the same powder). There's a whole science to pressure curves, lock-timing, etc.

If you ever look at a reloading chart, you'll notice that max loads with heavier projectiles are always with lower charges than lighter projectiles. Typically the best performing 9mm defensive ammunition are higher weight.

I like shooting heavier bullets because they use less powder. The gun fires more 'pushy' instead of snappy, generally with less muzzle flash/smoke and seem to perform better in shorter barrels since they get a better burn in shorter distances (consistent velocities shot to shot).
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Old 03-09-2018, 6:39 AM
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You should always test whatever ammo you are going to use in your HD gun to make sure it cycles reliably. You can’t just throw some hollow points in a magazine by your bedside gun and expect them to cycle the same as your Walmart ball ammo. The shape of the hollow point can cause failure to feed just as easily as the low power of a subsonic round can cause failure to cycle.

I was recently testing some subsonic hollowpoints in a Glock 19. All cycled with 100% reliability. However, one of them (fiocchi) produced a massive fireball. Fun at the range, but not so fun when shooting in low light when you are half asleep. So that’s another reason to test ammo.

And a third reason to test: can you get the rounds on target. The added recoil of some self defense ammo may be fine for some, but not for others. I would rather get 5 or 6 subsonic rounds on target vs only getting 1 or 2 +p rounds on target...
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 559BearDown View Post
There's no way I'm thinking about earmuffs if I'm in an HD situation.

This.

If you have time to think about hearing protection your life probably isn't in imminent danger.


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Old 03-09-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
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Get a suppressor
^^2nd^^
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  #28  
Old 03-09-2018, 11:05 AM
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Your ability to wear ear protection should not be a concern during a home defense event. The only way to prevent hearing loss in this type of situation is a major trade off from being alert to the event. I would never trade the extra time by wearing ear muffs for a home defense event as others have indicated already.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The adrenaline rush masks the temporary hearing loss in the heat of the moment.
The time you will truly NEED a firearm in your home will usually be too short of a time to put on hearing protection, nor would you even WANT hearing protection as it would reduce your ability to hear whatever threat you may be trying to vet before you engage it.
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:16 PM
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I'm loving my Peltor range gaurds. Very low profile and beats HLs in comfort.
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:57 PM
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The last thing that you need is to panic and grap your gun first then try to put on your hearing protection with gun in hand.

You think you won't, but how often are you so amped up that you're in that zone? You'd be surprised how many "rookie" mistakes people make under panic.

This dude wasn't under duress, but it fits my point...

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Old 03-09-2018, 1:25 PM
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Like many of the other good folks here, I use Howard Leight electronic... but in a SD/HD situation no way I'm taking the time to deal with that.
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Old 03-09-2018, 1:33 PM
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1. Need Randall’s wisdom above.
2. See #1 above.

I prefer subsonic ammo in my handguns for emergency home defence situations. I also buy the best factory loads as well. That means heavy for caliber ammo. In a 9, it is 147 grain JHP. Some Hornady critical duty ammo uses special powders to reduce flash. So you may want to look into that as well. Longer barrels Should help powder to burn more efficiently before leaving the barrel.

Last, but certainly not least, find the ammo that delivers the performance that YOU want in YOUR gun. My pistols deliver great performance with Remington Golden Sabers. They are wicked little things.

Good luck!
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Old 03-09-2018, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
The last thing that you need is to panic and grap your gun first then try to put on your hearing protection with gun in hand.

You think you won't, but how often are you so amped up that you're in that zone? You'd be surprised how many "rookie" mistakes people make under panic.

This dude wasn't under duress, but it fits my point...

Always cracks me up when I see that pic.
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Old 03-09-2018, 3:56 PM
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I shoot quite a bit at predators that show up at all hours. Supressor and .300 blk subsonic to keep the fam and neighbors undisturbed but I always put on electronic muffs as well - bionic ears are nice.

Like anything make it a regular part of you practice/training and it becomes reflexive. Takes maybe two seconds to put on muffs.

Layers of security buy time. If you don't have for muffs find a few new layers to buy more time.

Driveway alarms, motion activated lights, dogs, squeaky door hinges, squeaky floor (its an old trick) ... layers don't have to be deep or impenetrable but they do need to be there.
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Old 03-09-2018, 4:16 PM
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I'm just trying to imagine the LEO... Soooo You had time to put on ear protection while having your life threatened? Not to mention the Prosecuting Att. having a field day with that!
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Old 03-09-2018, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach View Post
Iím looking to increase my effectiveness in a home defense situation. I primarily use a 9mm for HD. I worry about damage to my ears if I should ever have to fire in the confines of my home and obviously I have zero issue giving up my hearing to protect my life and the lives of the ones I love. However I worry about temporarily losing some effectiveness due to the noise should I need follow up shots or general awareness. Should I keep a set of muffs next to my HD gun? I hesitate to use any subsonic ammo, and I count on my JHP. Thanks for any suggestions.
The very reason I do not use .357 Magnum for home or CCW defensive carry. 9mm and .45 auto are ear splitting as well. I have shot my .38 snubby w/o ear protection and it is better but not without discomfort. .357 Magnum is uncomfortable at the range for me unless I have twist-ups AND ear muffs.

Home protection will mean firing in confined areas so that is something to consider as to the acoustic effect. In an HD situation it will be arming myself first, dealing with the threat and worry about the ears later.

Dan
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Old 03-09-2018, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATEWA View Post
Check these out too - nothing to turn on and no batteries to replace.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VU4OT7A..._0BIOAbXCKKK70
Wow, those look promising. 31 db attenuation, that is quite good. I have electronic muffs with I think 25 db attenuation and are okay but my ears always sweat. These (Otis) look like they would be the best of both worlds.

Dan
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Old 03-09-2018, 5:35 PM
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some keep everything togther
Gun w/ paddle holster
extra mags in a paddle mag holder
Flashlight
Electronic hearing to boost- like hearing aids- anyone or anything breathing or making sounds in your home...


if you dont train, doing things after being woken up are difficult... so most skip the hearing pro...

Pistols in a home are not too bad
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  #40  
Old 03-09-2018, 7:01 PM
S.A. S.A. is offline
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You can cover one ear with your non-shooting hand bringing it over across your head to plug your ear and press non-shooting shoulder up to your other ear. Looks/sounds silly but I think it might give some protection.
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