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  #1  
Old 03-07-2018, 7:43 PM
TacopsDep417 TacopsDep417 is offline
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Does anyone here carry a 1911 for duty. Which one do you carry and why did you choose the 1911?
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2018, 5:03 AM
jc0311 jc0311 is offline
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Didnt you post a thread like this, last year? I was going to take the 1911 course last month, however had to cancel because scheduling conflicts. I just want to take the course for $#!ts and giggles. I would only carry it on special occasions (ceremonies and such). I would not carry one on duty, to me the limited ammo and the fact they are very high maintenance guns is a no-go for on duty use.

I feel pretty confident carrying my glock 17 gen 5 or my P226 TACOPS on duty. Now if I was to carry a 45, I would consider the P227, Glock 21 or the HK 45. Out of those three the Glock 21 has the ammo capacity with 13+1. Everyone doesn't necessarily like Glocks, but to me they get the job done, easy to shoot and maintain.

I wish the department would look at the Sig P320, I just got the TACOPS version and that thing is sweet. Anyhow back to the 1911, I have a TRP Operator and a S&W E-Series. The TRP would be my choice if I had to take one on duty or a Sig 1911 TACOPS. For the price point you can't beat either one. Yes, you can go buy a wazoo Wilson Combat or Nighthawk, but they're up there in price. Anyhow good luck on your quest.
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Old 03-08-2018, 6:57 AM
erik18 erik18 is offline
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IMHO the 1911 is obsolete for regular patrol operations due to its limited capacity and weight.

There are so many choices out there now for high capacity duty guns that are just as accurate and have the same, if not better shootability than a 1911. If you MUST have a 1911 pistol for duty, I would get a high quality double stack 9mm 2011 and shoot the **** out of it prior to making the official switch.

Again, this is just my opinion, but anyone who switches to a 1911 nowadays with all the other choices available, do it for the "cool" factor.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erik18 View Post
IMHO the 1911 is obsolete for regular patrol operations due to its limited capacity and weight.

There are so many choices out there now for high capacity duty guns that are just as accurate and have the same, if not better shootability than a 1911. If you MUST have a 1911 pistol for duty, I would get a high quality double stack 9mm 2011 and shoot the **** out of it prior to making the official switch.

Again, this is just my opinion, but anyone who switches to a 1911 nowadays with all the other choices available, do it for the "cool" factor.
How many rounds fired by SFPD the other day?? 65?? How many hits?? I switched from my Sig P226 to my 1911. The 1911 fits my hand better, and I shoot it better. As far as capacity, it holds two more rounds than my revolver. Capacity doesn't mean much if you cat hit your target.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:53 PM
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When my son was in jr. high 4 yrs ago, he went to a school for trouble makers in San Jose. The campus officer carried a 1911 + 2 Wilson mags. I’m guessing Les Baer.
I wanted to talk to him, but he is going to think I’m a gun nut, which I am.
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2018, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SDDAVE56 View Post
How many rounds fired by SFPD the other day?? 65?? How many hits??
The Academy Firearms training standard nowadays is to scrunch your eyes closed really tight, extend your arms out in an isosceles stance with your head looking down at the ground and tucked in between your arms covering your ears. Extra qualification points are given if the officer yells ďCOVERING FIREĒ while shooting.

Any officer carrying a 1911 is a gun nut, and absolutely has more than one pistol.

There are the rare officers who's only pistol is their agency owned duty issued pistol. No officer who carries a 1911 would fall into that category.
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Old 03-08-2018, 4:27 PM
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I only lost 10 rounds when I switched from my 226 to the 1911. Plus I had my PPK/S with one extra mag. As far as the brand,,Springfield Armory,,Mil Spec. It doesn't have to be expensive, but it does have to be reliable.

Last edited by SDDAVE56; 03-08-2018 at 4:29 PM..
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2018, 7:48 PM
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Danny Reagan on Blue Bloods carries one
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2018, 8:32 PM
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8 round magazines are common, and there are good extended 10 round magazines. The magazine capacity is not much of an issue if you carry quad mag in a pouch. That will give you enough rounds. The matter is if it fits you and if you feel comfortable with it. I retired before they authorized a 1911, so I don't know how it feels to carry it on duty.

I used to carry a Nighthawk GRP Recon pistol with Crimson Trace laser grip concealed. It was heavy so I switched to Glock 17, and I have been carrying a Glock ever since. I feel comfortable.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc0311 View Post
Didnt you post a thread like this, last year? I was going to take the 1911 course last month, however had to cancel because scheduling conflicts. I just want to take the course for $#!ts and giggles. I would only carry it on special occasions (ceremonies and such). I would not carry one on duty, to me the limited ammo and the fact they are very high maintenance guns is a no-go for on duty use.

I feel pretty confident carrying my glock 17 gen 5 or my P226 TACOPS on duty. Now if I was to carry a 45, I would consider the P227, Glock 21 or the HK 45. Out of those three the Glock 21 has the ammo capacity with 13+1. Everyone doesn't necessarily like Glocks, but to me they get the job done, easy to shoot and maintain.

I wish the department would look at the Sig P320, I just got the TACOPS version and that thing is sweet. Anyhow back to the 1911, I have a TRP Operator and a S&W E-Series. The TRP would be my choice if I had to take one on duty or a Sig 1911 TACOPS. For the price point you can't beat either one. Yes, you can go buy a wazoo Wilson Combat or Nighthawk, but they're up there in price. Anyhow good luck on your quest.
I can tell you the Glock 21 is a giant pistol. If I had the choice I would rather carry a 1911, but that isn't a option. I have carried the 1911 before and I never felt outgunned.
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2018, 1:08 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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While the 1911 may attract those who want a ďcool guyĒ rep, there are some quantifiable reasons to not dismiss the 1911 outright. Iíll preface this by saying I really like my Glocks, Berettas, and HKs, so Iím not saying the 1911 is the only gun worth having. Iím not even saying itís the best gun. Itís my favorite gun, so it makes me want to shoot more and get better. Thatís a good thing.

In the past couple years, Iíve gone back and forth between 1911s and Glocks a lot. Prior to that I did a bunch of shooting with Berettas, and I have a couple of nice Berettas on order, so I do still love that platform.

Now that weíve gone there, lets talk numbers. I wonít speak for anyone else, and I know there are people who can shoot faster than me because Iíve seen it, but these numbers are my reality. With a 9mm Glock (19s and 17s Ė gen3-5), I max out at about a .21 split time. I might occasionally be able to pull a .20, but thatís rare, and Iím at the ragged edge of losing control at that point. With a .45 1911 like the Series 80 Colt CCG I picked up last weekend, Iím easily at .19 splits and can get as low as .17 pretty regularly with practical 10-15 yard torso accuracy. Thatís a 10-20% reduction in split times. When I go to a 9mm 1911 such as my Dan Wesson or even my Springfield RO Compact 9mm, weíre talking .18-.16 splits consistently. This is all with the same or slightly improved accuracy at close range. Sub 2.5 second concealed draw Bill-Drills (7yds) with all ďAĒ zone hits. I canít do that with a Glock.

Further, accuracy (for me) with a 1911 is significantly improved, particularly at distance, compared to Glocks, M&Ps, and pretty much everything except maybe Berettas on a good day. Below is a 25yd group I shot with my Dan Wesson 9mm. 10 rds in less than 10 seconds. I canít do that with a Glock.


Hereís a 50yd group I shot in a bit over 15 seconds. Itís 10 rds all within the -1 zone of an IDPA target. The 1911 platform allows for enough of an accuracy improvement that I feel significantly more confident with it than any other combat-style pistol.


A common criticism (and a valid one) of the 1911 is capacity. People say that the low capacity makes it obsolete. I will agree that there is a potential for high-capacity to be a deciding factor in a gunfight. It is rare statistically, but it is possible. It is also possible that increased accuracy, particularly at distance, may be a deciding factor in a gun fight. Rare, yesÖ but possible. One must make their choices and take their chances.

Now, the 1911 has its disadvantages. The biggest is capacity. If we can get STIs approved, that would cost me a lot of money, as Iíve seen STI Marauders run like mad and in my opinion itís the best of all worlds for those dedicated enough to stay on top of them. For 1911s, reliability may take work, but once dialed in, 1911s run like anything else. Hereís my CCG after 600 rounds, including 100rds of Federal HST duty loads. It now has over 1,000 rounds in two days of shooting with no cleaning and no malfunctions. I have several 1911s that run like tops and a few that have proven more reliable than my Glocks over extended (several thousand round) shooting cycles.


As for which 1911 I prefer, Iím a fan of Springfield and Dan Wesson. Both have proven to make excellent guns. The Dan Wesson is great out of the box. Iíve done nothing to it and it runs great and is super accurate. Springfields are accurate and very reliable but sometimes need sights changed for POA/POI and Iíve had a few small issues Ė not so much with functional reliability, but with parts fitting. Iíve found you get what you pay for, and my Springfield Professional .45 is the most reliable and accurate pistol I own. Colt makes a great gun but I hate the spongy triggers and safeties that are common to newer Colts, and I donít think you get as much in terms of features for the money. Of course, that CCG I picked up last weekend (itís a slightly older model) is awesome.

Lastly, as for the 1911 classÖ


DO IT.


First, youíll have to shoot expert. Thatís something deputies should strive for anyway. Then you get in the class and itís two days. 16hrs. Itís no joke, especially now. Weíve refined it and our goal is to make it the best class youíve ever had on the department. Youíll start in the classroom with safety (Iím BIG on practical field-level safety), policy, medical procedures, and all that other stuff that is typical to other classes. Youíll learn a ton about how 1911s work, about accessories, magazines, disassembly, maintenance, cleaning, inspection, function checks, and the importance of setting up a 1911 the right way for reliability, accuracy, and performance in a law enforcement environment.

Then weíll hit the range and start building the fundamentals with an emphasis on accuracy and understanding your capabilities and the capabilities of the pistol to hit where you want at various distances and under stress. You will be competing against other students and ego will drive performance. By the end of day 1 youíll have probably identified some areas where youíre not satisfied with your performance and youíll be eager to make use of dry-fire time to practice the skills presented in the class.

On day 2 youíll arrive with a clean pistol which will be inspected. Weíll review the things to look for to keep the 1911 in top condition for field work and then weíll properly lube the guns, function check them, and hit the range.

This day is about performing. Youíll be tested from the first round fired and throughout the day. Weíll work reloads (if youíre carrying a low-capacity pistol you better be able to reload it well!), malfunction clearance procedures, and combat shooting, with a continual emphasis on a clear understanding of the capabilities of the shooter and the pistol.
There is the obvious ďdepartmentĒ test, but that is anti-climactic. By the time one makes it into the class and runs the drills, the department test is more of a competition to see who gets the best X-count than whether itís pass or fail.

The culmination of the class is that each student will run the Marksmanship Evaluation Course (MEC) developed by Mike Pannone, a former Force Recon Marine and member of the elite US Army SFOD-Delta, who developed the MEC as an adaptation of the US Air Marshall qualification course he implemented. To say it is hard is a bit of an understatement. Thankfully itís not a course requirement to pass the test because few actually do, but itís a great way to evaluate what works Ė from the gear Ė to the gun Ė to the shooter.

The 1911 isnít the best gun for law enforcement. I believe there isnít a ďbestĒ gun. My goal and hope is to make the best shooter and decision maker. The gun they use is very much secondary to their ability to perform, and from what I have experienced and seen in others, the 1911 seems to motivate the shooter to improve. Iíll take that any day.
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Old 03-09-2018, 1:51 AM
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I'm just going to be that weird guy and say, why not a CZ75?

I'm planning on carrying one just to try it out. As thin as a 1911, holds 16 rounds, trigger is not quite 1911 but still a good trigger.
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Old 03-09-2018, 8:35 AM
Galli1565 Galli1565 is offline
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Just practice more with your duty pistol so you aren’t sucked into the crutch of NEEDING a single action trigger to shoot better. They are heavy, plus with a light AND 4 extra magazines that starts to add more fatigue and weight to an already heavy belt.

I agree with a lot of what SoCalDep posted. You will have to spend more time maintaining your firearm and you better be money at reloads. I’d recommend taking a 1911 armorers course and shooting IDPA or other competitive style matches.
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Old 03-09-2018, 8:47 AM
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I have a springfield long beach operator. It was my brothers duty gun. I'd give anything in the world to give it back. I carry it to honor him. With a little training and a few extra mags I'm actually more accurate than I was with my glock. That said, it is quite a bit heavier. Maintenance is not an issue for me as I always take the time to properly clean and maintain all my firearms.
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Old 03-09-2018, 9:19 AM
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SoCalDep, great write up. I been missing the last two classes because of scheduling issues. I'm due to go back up to wayside to shoot expert again as my current expert qual is about to expire.
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Old 03-09-2018, 9:40 AM
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CB723 - Feeling you brother!
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Old 03-09-2018, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine104 View Post
Danny Reagan on Blue Bloods carries one
Looks like a Kahr to me...

BlueBS3E18KahrK92.jpg
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shellslinger View Post
I'm just going to be that weird guy and say, why not a CZ75?

I'm planning on carrying one just to try it out. As thin as a 1911, holds 16 rounds, trigger is not quite 1911 but still a good trigger.

A gentleman I used to know often traveled in suspect areas at odd hours. If I said be careful he'd reply "All is well, the man from Czechoslovakia is with me.."
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Old 03-09-2018, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ARDude View Post
Looks like a Kahr to me...

Attachment 688733
I've never seen a closeup picture before. Thanks.

Yeah, that looks like a Kahr.. I guess that's not department issue
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Old 03-09-2018, 3:49 PM
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1911s or even CZs are a good amount heavier than my 17, but I wouldn’t mind carrying a CZ at all.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:24 PM
CinnamonBear723 CinnamonBear723 is offline
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CB723 - Feeling you brother!
Thank you. This is not an attempt at a thread Jack. It's just simply an answer to the question.

And Danny Reagan is a sissy with a kahr not a 1911.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Thank you. This is not an attempt at a thread Jack. It's just simply an answer to the question.

And Danny Reagan is a sissy with a kahr not a 1911.
You tell him that!
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Old 03-11-2018, 6:44 PM
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My bailiffs husband was LAPD SWAT. He carried a 45 acp. 1911. His was a Colt.
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Old 03-12-2018, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shellslinger View Post
I'm just going to be that weird guy and say, why not a CZ75? .
...because we can afford to buy Colt, Beretta, Hk and Glock.
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