Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-07-2018, 3:54 PM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default sooo....ugly or what ? featureless grip

OK , I've tried all the rest ...until now....kind of leaves 2 fingers hanging out in the air... will have to try it to see if I keep it or not.

so....is it ugly or what....
Attachment 680050

Last edited by green grunt; 07-10-2018 at 6:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2018, 4:49 PM
WyattandDoc WyattandDoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 769
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

It's actually the best looking one I've seen.
__________________
Knives don't stab people, cars don't drive drunk, eating utensils don't make you fat and pencils don't mis-spell words.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:24 PM
golfish's Avatar
golfish golfish is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alta Loma
Posts: 4,689
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I'd like to see it on the complete rifle.
__________________
It takes a lot of balls to play golf the way I do

____________________________________

Happiness is a warm gun
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:25 PM
Tommy Gun Tommy Gun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 168
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I could be terribly wrong but I thought that wasn't considered featureless.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:28 PM
Erion929's Avatar
Erion929 Erion929 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: So. Orange County, CA.
Posts: 3,649
iTrader: 61 / 100%
Default

You can shoot that with your thumb web below the top of the trigger line.....that canít be featureless.

-
__________________
Join Active Junky for online rebates....$10 to both you and I.
https://www.activejunky.com/invite/238017
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:39 PM
dwinters14's Avatar
dwinters14 dwinters14 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 591
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Hideous, there are better alternatives.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:56 PM
nubbinator nubbinator is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 97
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gun View Post
I could be terribly wrong but I thought that wasn't considered featureless.
Nope, it isn't. I believe it's New York legal, but California illegal. It's illegal because you can wrap the web of you finger and thumb around it below the action.

The BoAR grip is the closest to the one in the OP that's supposedly CA legal.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:58 PM
SkyHawk's Avatar
SkyHawk SkyHawk is offline
Front Toward Enemy 🔫
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nakatomi Plaza - 30th floor
Posts: 11,419
iTrader: 130 / 100%
Default

Can you get a pistol style grasp with this? Does it protrude conspicously beneath the action? Doesn't look like it to me, if not then this is CA legal.

Quote:
(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon”
means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger
hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the
exposed portion of the trigger while firing.
I would argue that you cannot get a pistol style grasp. I probably would not use that trigger guard though.

And yes, this is one of the fugliest, least functional compliance grips I have ever seen.
__________________
.



"Texans always move them!"
General Robert E. Lee, May 6, 1864 - Battle of the Wilderness

Last edited by SkyHawk; 02-07-2018 at 6:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-07-2018, 6:29 PM
timdps timdps is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,113
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Can you get a pistol style grasp with this? Does it protrude conspicously beneath the action? Doesn't look like it to me, if not then this is CA legal.

I would argue that you cannot get a pistol style grasp. I probably would not use that trigger guard though.
Interesting. Its really going to depend on how "pistol style grip" is defined. If the definition includes "fingers" wrapping around the grip, it could be CA legal.

That trigger guard could complicate things, but it is NOT part of the grip...

T
__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require, that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military supplies." - George Washington, 1790
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-07-2018, 7:14 PM
MudCamper's Avatar
MudCamper MudCamper is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sebastopol
Posts: 4,264
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

These designs are the best IMO. And there is no legal ambiguity. They are NOT pistol grips. Yet you can wrap your thumb around them rifle buttstock style. (But notice the web of your thumb is forced above the exposed portion of the trigger.)



Post.

Full thread.
__________________
FPC, CGF, SAF, Madison, NRA, CRPA - CCW DENIED by SCSO

Last edited by MudCamper; 02-07-2018 at 7:22 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-07-2018, 7:17 PM
BajaJames83's Avatar
BajaJames83 BajaJames83 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North West SD county
Posts: 4,867
iTrader: 319 / 100%
Default

never been a beauty contest....
if ever needed it wont be either, thats my reason for NO BB. Rather have the function that the "LOOK"
__________________
NRA Life Member
USMC 2001-2012

Never make yourself too available or useful...... Semper Fidelis

John Dickerson: What keeps you awake at night?
James Mattis: Nothing, I keep other people awake at night.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-07-2018, 7:17 PM
MudCamper's Avatar
MudCamper MudCamper is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sebastopol
Posts: 4,264
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nubbinator View Post
The BoAR grip is the closest to the one in the OP that's supposedly CA legal.
I tried the BoAR. (I've tried pretty much ALL of them.) And I did not like it. I could not get my finger on the trigger without causing painful strain.

And the one the OP posted is definitely a pistol grip under California law. You can grasp it with the web of your thumb below the exposed portion of the trigger.
__________________
FPC, CGF, SAF, Madison, NRA, CRPA - CCW DENIED by SCSO

Last edited by MudCamper; 02-07-2018 at 7:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-07-2018, 7:40 PM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,358
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

After considering the direction of things in CA, if rather have a fugly rifle with a normal mag release, that I may have to eventually register, that a BBRAW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-07-2018, 9:47 PM
smittty smittty is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,905
iTrader: 14 / 94%
Default

No good. That grip doesn't meet the requirement.

Before buying something you're best to ask here on the forum.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-08-2018, 7:55 AM
Skip_Dog's Avatar
Skip_Dog Skip_Dog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,022
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I do not like it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-08-2018, 8:02 AM
holt7153's Avatar
holt7153 holt7153 is offline
G u n t h u s i a s t
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: 818
Posts: 1,570
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
These designs are the best IMO. And there is no legal ambiguity. They are NOT pistol grips. Yet you can wrap your thumb around them rifle buttstock style. (But notice the web of your thumb is forced above the exposed portion of the trigger.)
Standing by for your review. I have the Sparrow and Liberal but haven't tried the Resurgent Arms offering.
__________________


I liked beer. I still like beer.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-08-2018, 8:09 AM
afteractionreport's Avatar
afteractionreport afteractionreport is offline
CGSSA Leader
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,585
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
These designs are the best IMO. And there is no legal ambiguity. They are NOT pistol grips. Yet you can wrap your thumb around them rifle buttstock style. (But notice the web of your thumb is forced above the exposed portion of the trigger.)



Post.

Full thread.
You ever in socal? Wish i could try out the arteel before forking out 40 bucks and then not liking it..
__________________
PEPE did nothing wrong
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-08-2018, 8:20 AM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

so says the back of the package .....picked up at a local Gun shop , stated that this is a GTG set up for Ca. (???)
Attachment 680185

Last edited by green grunt; 07-10-2018 at 6:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-08-2018, 8:31 AM
Ubermcoupe's Avatar
Ubermcoupe Ubermcoupe is offline
🇺🇸 Jack-Booted Gov Thug
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: This information has been redacted in accordance with Title 18 U.S. Code ß 798
Posts: 14,821
iTrader: 64 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Can you get a pistol style grasp with this? Does it protrude conspicously beneath the action? Doesn't look like it to me, if not then this is CA legal.
Quote:
(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon”
means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger
hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the
exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

I would argue that you cannot get a pistol style grasp. I probably would not use that trigger guard though.

And yes, this is one of the fugliest, least functional compliance grips I have ever seen.
Im with Skyhawk on this one. It's not a pistol style grasp.

Anecdotally, I have never seen a pistol even remotely close to being designed using a "spur" type handle.

I would also not endorse the trigger guard, although I think a good argument could be made for that set up because many older rifles, shotguns, and muskets in monte-carlo fashion have those hook style embellishments allowing for purchase with other fingers.

Y (legal) MMV
__________________
Hauoli Makahiki Hou


-------
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-08-2018, 8:38 AM
mlevans66's Avatar
mlevans66 mlevans66 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Now in a free state
Posts: 9,256
iTrader: 47 / 100%
Default

That's not nearly the worst Ive seen.
__________________
The liberal see's the glass as half full and tries to take more.
The conservative see's glass as half empty and tries to keep it that way.
I'm with the people on the side just pouring water in the glass trying to get a drink!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-08-2018, 8:51 AM
holt7153's Avatar
holt7153 holt7153 is offline
G u n t h u s i a s t
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: 818
Posts: 1,570
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afteractionreport View Post
You ever in socal? Wish i could try out the arteel before forking out 40 bucks and then not liking it..
I shoot this and the Sparrow at APTS a couple of times a month.
__________________


I liked beer. I still like beer.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-08-2018, 10:03 AM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

and now ? , I believe the 1st photo with the spur attachment is a GO for featureless , the trigger guard is NOT part of the grip and can be used in other applications as shown....it is after all just a trigger guard.....I do not see what part of the PC that is in question .... please someone correct me if I'm wrong
thanks for the feedback
Attachment 680223
Semper Fi.

Last edited by green grunt; 07-10-2018 at 6:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-08-2018, 10:16 AM
IVC's Avatar
IVC IVC is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Temecula
Posts: 14,044
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
You can shoot that with your thumb web below the top of the trigger line.....that canít be featureless.
Take any featureless rifle and hold it awkwardly by putting the bottom of the trigger guard between your thumb and index finger, and you'll be able to operate the trigger. They are still featureless, though.

In short, if the standard shooting grip is not a "pistol style grasp" and if the webbing is above the top of the trigger while shooting normally, it's unlikely it would ever be considered a pistol grip.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-08-2018, 10:23 AM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Take any featureless rifle and hold it awkwardly by putting the bottom of the trigger guard between your thumb and index finger, and you'll be able to operate the trigger. They are still featureless, though.

In short, if the standard shooting grip is not a "pistol style grasp" and if the webbing is above the top of the trigger while shooting normally, it's unlikely it would ever be considered a pistol grip.

Thank You..... I've tried the trigger guard with other featureless grips to include the Monster Man / Hammer Head and even the FRS15 , it does seem to give a better more stable grip and could not find anything in "the codes" that even talk about a trigger guard... but my search skills are ...well... like me.... old..



Semper Fi.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-08-2018, 2:07 PM
MudCamper's Avatar
MudCamper MudCamper is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sebastopol
Posts: 4,264
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post
Standing by for your review. I have the Sparrow and Liberal but haven't tried the Resurgent Arms offering.
Well the two you have are currently my top two favorites, so look no further. But to be fair, the Resurgent Arms version that I have is a pre-release prototype. The truth is, all three of these are very close and pretty much the best option available for featureless right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afteractionreport View Post
You ever in socal? Wish i could try out the arteel before forking out 40 bucks and then not liking it..
Sorry, almost never in SoCal. You could probably sell one in the forums here for only a small loss though.
__________________
FPC, CGF, SAF, Madison, NRA, CRPA - CCW DENIED by SCSO

Last edited by MudCamper; 02-08-2018 at 2:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-08-2018, 2:53 PM
Calico1404's Avatar
Calico1404 Calico1404 is offline
Watching you, watch me.
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,569
iTrader: 120 / 100%
Default

I have always understood the spur to be a no go in CA< due to the invisible line where the web of your hand goes. Stand by for some of the legal experts.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-08-2018, 3:25 PM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Legal advice is always a good thing.... but there is so much "gray area" the gun shop said it's a go.... a few here have said same same...and a few say it's a no go.... I'll use a more common featureless grip till I get more info....



Semper Fi.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-08-2018, 4:39 PM
Tommy Gun Tommy Gun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 168
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Ya man I hate to bring doubt but because our gun laws are basically written on the fly and the CA DOJ is too chicken s**t to actually give us the tools to navigate the web we always have to side with caution.

Hell the AFG discussion can go either way but because Bacarra ruled the AFG gtg for pistols there is a case for legality on featureless.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-08-2018, 5:03 PM
baih777 baih777 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 3,832
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by green grunt View Post
so says the back of the package .....picked up at a local Gun shop , stated that this is a GTG set up for Ca. (???)
Attachment 680185
You should save that packaging.
Then you can sue them if you get into trouble with that grip.
__________________
Been gone too long. It's been 15 to 20 years since i had to shelf my guns. Those early years sucked.
I really miss the good old Pomona Gun Shows.
I'm Back.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-08-2018, 6:51 PM
LAKA90034's Avatar
LAKA90034 LAKA90034 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 1,034
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Ugly for sure.
__________________
"I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace."

Thomas Paine

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:18 AM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

this was the reply from S&B products that make the AR15 Spur..............


Thank you for your inquiry. Back in 2013, we sent a spur to your DOJ asking for a determination.. After numerous phone calls to them and never an answer, we realized we weren't going to get one. The design of the spur was based on California law, and was done by a retired state trooper here in NY who is also a recognized gun expert. We have about 3 dozen stores in California selling the spur now. Also, go to You Tube and look up Deputy Matt's video on the spur.

Enjoy your weekend!

Dealer Sales
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-09-2018, 10:27 AM
sMp sMp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California unfortunately
Posts: 410
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I kinda don't hate it.
Where did you get the trigger guard? Who makes it
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:10 AM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

^


ALL OUT , Mdl15 , Patrick Henry trigger guard , www.alloutmfg.com
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:36 AM
sMp sMp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California unfortunately
Posts: 410
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Sweet thanks
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:46 AM
ShockBros's Avatar
ShockBros ShockBros is offline
Entry Level Thread Killer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sandy Eggo Republic of Kalifornistan
Posts: 179
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I am going to try chopping an extra grip and try this...
That's a pricey trigger guard!
__________________
"Revolution is not a spectator sport"

"Paranoia is only good thinking when everyone is out to get you"

Who is John Galt?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:56 AM
green grunt's Avatar
green grunt green grunt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lodi
Posts: 816
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

^ ... found it for less at the local shop $25.....
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-09-2018, 1:46 PM
Steve1968LS2's Avatar
Steve1968LS2 Steve1968LS2 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,318
iTrader: 73 / 99%
Default

The normal magazine release button is beautiful as is the idea of not licking the boots of freedom haters in Sac..
__________________
"Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail. Oversentimentality, oversoftness, washiness, and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people." Theodore Roosevelt

Member: Patron member NRA, lifetime member SAF, CRPA, Guardian Front Sight

Last edited by Steve1968LS2; 02-09-2018 at 3:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-09-2018, 2:10 PM
HectorEscaton HectorEscaton is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 158
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calico1404 View Post
I have always understood the spur to be a no go in CA< due to the invisible line where the web of your hand goes. Stand by for some of the legal experts.
If that were the only criteria, having no grip at all would qualify as an AW since you would be able to fire the weapon with the web of your thumb below the "magic line." The spur works because it's not a pistol grip. (Imagine what a pistol would look like with that grip.) Where your hand rests is therefore irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-09-2018, 5:18 PM
r739's Avatar
r739 r739 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Merced county**
Posts: 344
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Hmmmm, seems kinda interesting ....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:30 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.