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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2018, 5:14 PM
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Thumbs up CCW GC standard for *City* of Los Angeles (pop 4M -- more than SD Co!)

While the average law-abiding citizen in the City of Los Angeles still doesn't have a chance for a CCW, for those who do have "Good Cause" due to fitting into 1 or more of the 5 "circumstances" listed, their odds are much better than with the LA county sheriff. We shouldn't use the blanket statement that they've got "no chance" without remembering that they might with LAPD. With a population of 4 million, I'm sure there's probably thousands of LA city residents who could get a CA CCW from LAPD if they knew about this and tried.

I've added the bolding and underlining within the paragraphs for emphasis.

Quote:
GOOD CAUSE:
The policy LAPD has adopted is that good cause exists if there is convincing
evidence of a clear and present danger to life or of great bodily injury to the applicant, his (or
her) spouse, or dependent child, which cannot be adequately dealt with by existing law
enforcement resources, and which danger cannot be reasonably avoided by alternative measures,
and which danger would be significantly mitigated by the applicant's carrying of a concealed
firearm.

<snip>

Pursuant to the Judgment of Declaratory Relief in Anthony Assenza, et al. v. City of Los Angeles, et al.,
the following further rules and guidelines are provided for the interpretation and implementation of the
Department's good cause policy:

Good Cause.
Good cause shall be deemed to exist, and a license will issue in the absence
of strong countervailing factors, upon a showing of any of the following circumstances:
a) The
applicant is able to establish that there is an immediate or continuing threat, express or implied,
to the applicant's safety, or the applicant's family's safety
, and that no other reasonable means
exist which would suffice to neutralize that threat; b) The applicant is employed in the field of
security
, has all requisite licenses, is employed by a security firm having all requisite licenses,
and provides satisfactory proof that his or her work is of such a nature that it requires the
carrying of a concealed weapon; c) The applicant has obtained, or is a person included within
the protections of a court order which establishes that the applicant is the on-going victim of a
threat or physical violence
or otherwise meets the criteria set forth in Penal Code Section
26175; d) The applicant establishes that circumstances exist requiring him or her to transport
in public significant amounts of valuable property
which it is impractical or impracticable to
entrust to the protection of armored car services or equivalent services for safe transportation of
valuables; e) The applicant establishes that he or she is subject to a particular and unusual
danger of physical attack
and that no reasonable means are available to abate that threat.

Favorable Factors.
Among facts upon which the Department will, in the exercise of its
discretion, look favorably in considering applications are whether: a) the applicant has a
demonstrated record of responsible handling of firearms; b) the applicant has a commitment to
safe and responsible handling of firearms as shown by having voluntarily taken firearms training;
c) the applicant has a record of good citizenship in general as evidenced, for instance, by service
to the community through such activities as creditable service in the armed forces, including the
National Guard and state militia or in the police reserves, or of active participation in charitable
or public service organizations or activities or in political affairs; d) the applicant is trustworthy
and responsible as evidenced, for instance, by employment history, positions held in civic,
political, religious or secular achievements or record of personal accomplishment in other areas
of endeavor; e) that the applicant suffers under a disability or physical handicap, including age or
obesity, which hinders the applicant's ability to retreat from an attacker.

Unfavorable Factors. Factors which will bear negatively on issuance (unless they appear
to be in the remote past) are: a) the applicant has a long-term history of mental or emotional
instability, alcoholism, drug use or addiction to controlled substances; b) the applicant has a
history of fault in serious accidents with firearms, automobiles or other dangerous
instrumentalities; c) the applicant has had a permit to own or carry a concealed weapon denied,
suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority; d) the applicant has had a driver's
license denied, suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority; e) the applicant
has a long-term record of irresponsible and dangerous behavior with automobiles as indicated by
numerous convictions of serious driving offenses; f) the applicant has a long-term history of
conduct from which it appears that he or she is not now of good moral character, trustworthy or
responsible. While none of the foregoing disqualify an applicant per se, a license will be denied
if it appears, in the discretion of the Department, that the applicant does not now have good
character or that issuance of a license to him/her is not consistent with public safety.
More at:
http://assets.lapdonline.org/assets/...May%202013.pdf
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Last edited by Paladin; 02-11-2018 at 2:06 PM..
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Old 02-10-2018, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAPD
Pursuant to the Judgment of Declaratory Relief in Anthony Assenza, et al. v. City of Los Angeles, et al., the following further rules and guidelines are provided for the interpretation and implementation of the Department's good cause policy
That little zinger there is easy to read past. This letter gives a lot more background on that case. TL;dr: LAPD is subject to court supervision as part of a settlement and actually must issue in those five categories. Someone who fits in one of those categories and wants to pursue this and who lives in LA city has a good chance of getting a CCW. Many people probably fall into those five categories, especially transporting valuable goods for business reasons.

Especially this part:

Quote:
Declarations under penalty of perjury suffice as evidence of facts showing good cause, provided that the Department is not required to accept the allegations in a declaration if it has credible counter-evidence or finds the declarant not credible
This policy isn't bad actually! It's not shall-issue but as far as not-shall-issue policies go, this isn't bad.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2018, 1:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
That little zinger there is easy to read past. This letter gives a lot more background on that case. TL;dr: LAPD is subject to court supervision as part of a settlement and actually must issue in those five categories. Someone who fits in one of those categories and wants to pursue this and who lives in LA city has a good chance of getting a CCW. Many people probably fall into those five categories, especially transporting valuable goods for business reasons.

Especially this part:



This policy isn't bad actually! It's not shall-issue but as far as not-shall-issue policies go, this isn't bad.
Yep. The more I think about it and the 5 categories that "shall be" deemed to have GC, I think the city of LA is at least "light red", maybe even "yellow" on the CA CCW GC map (at bottom). Plus, we're talking about the City of LA which has 4M out of the 10M living in LA county. While we may not be able to "liberate" 100% LA county, if we can help 40% of the population that's going to have a positive impact on the most populous anti holdout county.

But the issuance rate is sooo low given a pop of 4M because hardly anyone knows about this loophole, and EVERYONE automatically says you've got no chance unless celeb, politician, rich, etc.

In a city of 4M, just the "circumstance" of being in (b) "security" and needing a CCW must have hundreds or thousands of people. Same with (d), transport valuable property -- think small store owners making deposits, property owners/managers collecting & depositing rents, as well as jewelry dealers, coin/gold dealers, etc.

Plus, there are TONS of LGBTetc people in LA who may qualify under (a), (c) and/or (e).

We've got to figure out how to get this info out to the groups that qualify.

ETA: Here's a link to the letter CCWFacts quoted: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/ccw...2009-09-05.pdf Read at least the first 3 pages, then read the next 5 if you still think you may qualify.

ETA2: Here's the CA CCW GC map for newbies, lurkers and visitors.

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Last edited by Paladin; 02-12-2018 at 8:04 AM..
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2018, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
That little zinger there is easy to read past. This letter gives a lot more background on that case. TL;dr: LAPD is subject to court supervision as part of a settlement and actually must issue in those five categories. Someone who fits in one of those categories and wants to pursue this and who lives in LA city has a good chance of getting a CCW. Many people probably fall into those five categories, especially transporting valuable goods for business reasons.

Especially this part:


This policy isn't bad actually! It's not shall-issue but as far as not-shall-issue policies go, this isn't bad.
Here's the key parts, IMO, from attorney Jason Davis' letter for Joes/Josephines who *need* a CCW and are wondering if they can get one from the LAPD:

Quote:
As a result of the litigation, the City of Los Angeles and the LAPD entered into highly complex
settlement negotiations with the Plaintiffs and came up with five shall issue categories: 1) threats
to self or family; 2) employed in security; 3) subject of protective order; 4) significant amounts
of valuable property; and 5) subject of particular and unusual danger of physical attack.

The applicant does not need to provide pictures of previous attacks or other physical proof of
such good cause, rather a declaration under penalty of perjury shall suffice.

The LAPD cannot deny by delay as many agencies do with firearms related permits. In fact, the
application must be either approved or denied within fifty (50) days, with some exceptions. If an
application is granted for one of the above enumerated reasons, then the permit must be issued
for the maximum length allowed by law – currently two years.

If an applicant is denied, they can have their application reviewed by the City of Los Angeles
Advisory Panel on Concealed Weapons. This panel is composed of persons appointed by either
civil rights attorney Don B. Kates, or in his absence, the Second Amendment Foundation.

Should the Advisory Panel recommend that the application be approved and the LAPD still
denies the application, then LAPD is subject to attorney’s fees if the applicant subsequently
prevails in a civil action on the same basis that the advisory panel recommended.

Most importantly, the Assenza Judgment that places these requirements upon the City of Los
Angeles and the LAPD is an ongoing Judgment, which means that the court retained jurisdiction
over the case to ensure that the Los Angeles defendants did not continue their repeated
violations.
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Last edited by Paladin; 02-12-2018 at 6:20 PM..
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2018, 5:46 PM
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Reading through all of this, and based on the info in the Link provided, I'm starting to think the city of LA might be light red, perhaps something better. That being said, we need people to APPLY to see if they actually issue, and then tell us about it!
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Old 02-12-2018, 6:29 PM
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The City of Los Angeles has a population of 4,000,000. That's greater than EVERY other CA city. That's greater than EVERY CA county except LA county! That's greater than 23 states!!!

If 1/4 of them are disqualified from buying a handgun (e.g., under 18 yo, or felons, etc), that leaves 3M possible CCWers. If only 1% of them are in 1 or more of the 5 "circumstances," that's 30,000 possible new CA CCWers!

Folks, this is HUGE! I am stunned there aren't all sorts of posts by CGNers who live in LA all excited by this opening, even if it is a narrow opening. I'd give this thread 5 stars, if I could vote on my own thread....

We need EVERYONE to get the word out about this so that those who do live in LA, can buy a handgun and can pass LAPD's GC standard applies and gets a CCW. Send this to family, friends, and shooting buddies. Cross post this on gun and other suitable forums and social media.

Having thousands or, even better, tens of thousands of CCWers in the heart of LA county will cause Sheriff McDonnell to have a stroke!

ETA: I found some more documents related to LAPD and CCWs.

A Michel & Associates legal memo: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...Davis-v-LA.pdf

A CA Appeals Court decision -- Michel & Associates lost: http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/nonpub/B241631.PDF
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Last edited by Paladin; 02-13-2018 at 9:33 PM..
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Old 02-18-2018, 8:16 AM
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Thanks, Paladin, this is very useful.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:01 PM
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I work in security. Two years ago I worked a site on strike with some Pinkerton officers. All were carrying concealed. Many lived a short distance from the site Sunset Kaiser Permenente. I do not know for sure but I got the impression they were NOT licensed Private Investigators.

YMMV

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