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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 66 7.78%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 570 67.22%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 19 2.24%
I paid too much for my Membership! 39 4.60%
They will go out of business this year! 21 2.48%
Don't want anything to do with them! 133 15.68%
Voters: 848. You may not vote on this poll

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  #9041  
Old 02-05-2018, 5:52 PM
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Just noticed the good Dr gave me a second new years bonus on the 26th.
More fun gun shoots incoming.
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  #9042  
Old 02-05-2018, 8:55 PM
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Anyone take TWO-DAY TACTICAL SCENARIOUS COMBINED WEAPONS???


I have never shot airsoft. I am going to do this class at Front Sight.....
http://www.frontsight.com/Courses.as...on=View&ID=247

For class we need gloves and a mask. I just googled airsoft masks and there are a zillion on them. Recommendations on what to buy???
I live in North Hollywood. Any stores close?


I have done most of the classes with actual firearms at Front Sight and looking for something different to do.
I have already done......
Defensive Handgun
Practical Rifle
Defensive Shotgun
Rope & Rappel
Precision Rifle
Tactical Handgun
Advanced Tactical Handgun
Advanced Long Gun Tactics

Last edited by mikeinla; 02-05-2018 at 8:58 PM..
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  #9043  
Old 02-06-2018, 9:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Just noticed the good Dr gave me a second new years bonus on the 26th.
More fun gun shoots incoming.
Me too.
500 on 12/24 Xmas Gift
500 on 1/8 New Years gift
500 on 1/27 2nd New Years gift

Looks like my background checks are covered for a little bit along with a t-shirt or two. Still trying to find a private training date that works for both FS and my family so no trips booked yet.
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  #9044  
Old 02-06-2018, 9:57 AM
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Buddy of mine just finished taking the new Advanced Tactical class and wrote up a nice AAR over on the FS forum.
Copy / pasting here for those who aren't registered over there or don't frequent often.


Took the course Feb 2-3, 2018 (Fri-Sat). Below is the schedule that we used. Note that the course is new and they are still in the process of fine-tuning, so there may be future changes. Comments in follow-up post.

Day 1
8:00a - Classroom welcome, liability release
8:20a - Range check-in, welcome lecture
8:45a - Dry practice @ 7yd.
9:00a - Advanced skills shooting, unscored (close contact, palm strike, 3yd out to 50, responses, etc.)
9:35a - *Break*
9:45a - Non-standard response to the rear
10:15a - Unconventional shooting platforms (supine)
10:45a - *Break*
11:00a - One-handed malfunction clearing
11:45a - Shooting while moving
12:30p - *Lunch*
1:30p - Modules:
Sim bay - recovery scenarios
Range - moving off the "X"
Range - clearing malfunctions on the move
5:00p - *Dinner*
5:45p - Doors - night lecture
6:15p - Modules:
Sim bay - Night multiple rooms
Range - Night shooting while moving/alternate platforms
8:00p - *Done*

Day 2
8:00a - 4-2-1 drill
8:15a - Ragged hole drill: standard, 1-handed (right and left handed)
9:00a - Modules:
Sim bay - Reacting to armed scenarios (red gun)
Range - Dunletti drill (aka: drag a bag)
Range - Using a vehicle as cover
12:30p - *Lunch*
1:30p - *Modules*
Sim bay - Search and bug (red gun)
Range - Serpentine shooting while moving
Range - Vehicle egress drills
4:45p - Wrap-up
5:00p - *Dismiss*
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  #9045  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:04 AM
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Course notes/comments:
  • Knee-pads, elbow-pads are a must, gloves highly recommended (at least bring them, you don't have to wear them -- better to have and not use than need and not have). You spend a lot of time running from cover to cover, up, down, kneeling, etc. I wore pants and long sleeve shirt, both with integrated knee-pads. If you bring strap-ons, make sure they are comfortable, you will be wearing them most of day 1 and all of day 2 for virtually all range activities. Recommend at least wearing a glove on support hand, you will be in the gravel a lot and there's lots of sharp brass. Strongly recommend long pants, long sleeve shirt, ankle covering boots.
  • Make sure you find out exactly where day 1 check-in is. Apparently it was in the white tent for advanced tactical (not the classroom), but no one bothered to tell me -- I arrived 10-15 minutes late to the range, wan't a big deal though.
  • Day-2 sim bay exercise are all 'sterilized', meaning you leave all weapons (guns, knives, keys, pens, etc.) in your vehicle. These are 'live-person' scenarios where there will be other people in the building that you are searching/avoiding/interacting with. Red guns (only) are used.
  • You will be shooting a lot of steel, and they are painted colors. Staff will call out color to shoot during the exercise, make sure you know what color is what (take note my color-blind brethren).
  • This class is rough and tumble, lots of movement, running from cover to cover to different platforms, moving forwards, backwards, sideways, serpentine, etc. If you have knee/hip issues, take it easy and don't push it -- stretching and exercise beforehand is recommended. Several people tweaked their hips, sprained ankles, torqued knees, cuts, scrapes, bruises.
  • Our class size was 41. We were broken up evenly into 3 squads (14 per squad) and used 2 adjacent ranges + the central sim bays. Each squad had between 3 and 4 assigned staff. You didn't have to stay with your squad over the 2 days, but most everyone did.
  • There is NO skills test (advanced or otherwise) administered in the new class, it is only in 4-day HCMP.
  • There is a lot of yelling, stress-inducing situations, rocks, sticks, small rubbery hands (lol) during a lot of the exercises, but not a lot of one-on-one critique. You will be largely responsible to assess your performance, ascertain what works and what doesn't, and improve accordingly. Most exercises are run once, so you have to learn on the fly and apply accordingly.
  • Safety is emphasized, as always, and you need to look after yourself and keep an eye on others. At no time did I feel unsafe, but there is a lot of weapons manipulation, etc. going on. Make sure that your muzzle consciousness is an ingrained habit.
  • I recommend NOT having someone tell you how to 'win' some of the scenarios or give you details on techniques, instead learn for yourself. This is especially true of the day-2 sim bay scenarios. Don't spoil the fun.
  • That said, regarding day-2 sim bay scenarios - these are NOT designed to be no-win situations, and there is no single right answer. The best way to get the most out of it is to pretend that you are really in the scenario being presented and act accordingly.
  • I've taken all handgun classes (excepting integrated and new Tactical Awareness), and the new 2 Day Advanced Tactical Handgun is by far the most fun and what I would consider to be the best preparation for the street.
  • Label your magazines with your name. You will be dropping or ejecting magazines (either deliberately or with the help of range staff) all over the place. Either mark your magazines with your full name beforehand or use the FS white duct tape when you get there.
  • Bring plenty of magazines. I brought 5 (1 in the gun, 4 in 2 belt-mounted mag pouches). Most of the exercises are not done in 1/2 relays, but rather in a couple or few grocery-store style lines, so you have time to reload mags between exercises. I was comfortable with the pace/reloading with 4 or 5 magazines (17 round mags, loaded to 15).
  • Remember, the standard response to multiple adversaries is a single shot to the thoracic, not an entire magazine. Remember that you never have enough time and ammo, and popping off 4 or 5 rounds per steel target in multiples situations means that you will be getting a lot of emergency reload practice on the range, and may be setting yourself up for bad habits that may not bode well if in a real-life situation.
  • Round count: FS course recommendation is 400, which is exactly the number I shot. A lot of the scenarios are on steel and I noticed a lot of people are in the habit of ballistically unloading 4-5 magazines per exercise. Most exercises, when 'properly' executed (i.e. guarantee the shot, standard 1 or 2-shot response), will use not more than 15 rounds.
  • Hot range, hot range rules.
  • Taught on phase 2 ranges (we were on 14-15, there was at least 1 other class on 16-17).
  • A lot of fun, plenty of reasons to regularly repeat this class.
  • Range staff was excellent and made the whole experience memorable - big thanks to Alex Moore's crew.
  • Stay in condition yellow.

Last edited by Jedi54; 02-06-2018 at 10:08 AM..
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  #9046  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:25 AM
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Thanks for the write up! Got it scheduled in a couple months. Canít wait to take it.
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  #9047  
Old 02-06-2018, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Me too.
500 on 12/24 Xmas Gift
500 on 1/8 New Years gift
500 on 1/27 2nd New Years gift

.
I got the 2 New Years gifts, but no xmas gift

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Last edited by Tripper; 02-06-2018 at 2:33 PM..
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  #9048  
Old 02-06-2018, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
Thx AA, anyone have any bad experience with the armscor, in glocks or beretta 92fs


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The Armscor ran fine on my Glocks.

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  #9049  
Old 02-06-2018, 3:51 PM
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The Armscor ran fine on my Glocks.

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Cool, I will probably get 1k of that then.


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  #9050  
Old 02-06-2018, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Course notes/comments:
. . .[/LIST]
Nice write-up. Thank you.
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  #9051  
Old 02-06-2018, 9:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
Thx AA, anyone have any bad experience with the armscor, in glocks or beretta 92fs


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I see others have responded but I'll throw in here anyway. I've been through probably 2k-3k rounds of Armscor 124gr. without any issues what-so-ever. All through various pistols (Glock 17, 19, 26, and Sig P229) and always flawless so far. Not one single failure.

I would recommend staying away from Sellier and Bellot. I know you didn't mention them but if you are price shopping, they are very cheap. I only say that because we (wife and I) went through 2k rounds of it and there were several FTF's. One instructor found several rounds that did not go bang and you could clearly see the pin strikes on the primers but they never discharged.
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  #9052  
Old 02-06-2018, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chestnut250 View Post
I see others have responded but I'll throw in here anyway. I've been through probably 2k-3k rounds of Armscor 124gr. without any issues what-so-ever. All through various pistols (Glock 17, 19, 26, and Sig P229) and always flawless so far. Not one single failure.

I would recommend staying away from Sellier and Bellot. I know you didn't mention them but if you are price shopping, they are very cheap. I only say that because we (wife and I) went through 2k rounds of it and there were several FTF's. One instructor found several rounds that did not go bang and you could clearly see the pin strikes on the primers but they never discharged.
Interesting about S&B. I just went through 600 rounds last week with zero issues. What type of pistol were you using?
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  #9053  
Old 02-06-2018, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by AR15fan View Post
Interesting about S&B. I just went through 600 rounds last week with zero issues. What type of pistol were you using?
Agreed I have no issue with S&B at all and use it in both 9mm and 45 ACP and it has been great ammo. I highly recommend it. It has been great ammo for me for many years.
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  #9054  
Old 02-07-2018, 6:58 AM
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Great write up, Jedi. Makes we want to ride this FS train again. I've let my enthusiasm die off and after my last 4DDHG last year, I fell off the charts, but next month I'm getting back on, then on to Tactical HG in May. Hope to get into the next Advanced Tactical HG after.

My last Advanced Tactical HG was two years ago and when they started doing that HGCM prep stuff, I decided I was wasting my time. Now I'm glad to see FS changed the curriculum to something more realistic. And most of all, thanks to you guys in this thread discussing the Advanced classes or I would have assumed things stayed the same!
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  #9055  
Old 02-07-2018, 7:15 AM
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A buddy and I are headed to the two day Shotgun Skillbuilder in a couple of weeks. We've taken the two day several times and thoroughly enjoyed it. Any words of wisdom for the skillbuilder?
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  #9056  
Old 02-07-2018, 8:54 AM
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A buddy and I are headed to the two day Shotgun Skillbuilder in a couple of weeks. We've taken the two day several times and thoroughly enjoyed it. Any words of wisdom for the skillbuilder?
Be prepared to shoot A LOT! Youíll shoot a four days worth of ammo plus some.
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  #9057  
Old 02-07-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Great write up, Jedi. Makes we want to ride this FS train again. I've let my enthusiasm die off and after my last 4DDHG last year, I fell off the charts, but next month I'm getting back on, then on to Tactical HG in May. Hope to get into the next Advanced Tactical HG after.

My last Advanced Tactical HG was two years ago and when they started doing that HGCM prep stuff, I decided I was wasting my time. Now I'm glad to see FS changed the curriculum to something more realistic. And most of all, thanks to you guys in this thread discussing the Advanced classes or I would have assumed things stayed the same!
Personally, I think it was a mistake to put the Tactical Handgun class in the path to Master Prep. This is an improvement.

In general, the curriculum was much more orthogonal in the past. This allowed folks to pursue the specific areas of interest. Now the curriculum is more intertwined so you have more prerequisites for the advanced classes and you have a hard time taking advanced classes. If you only want to pursue one weapons system. Many of the advanced classes require that you DG multiple weapons systems in order to take the class.

The new Tac Handgun classes are a step in the right direction.
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Last edited by AAShooter; 02-07-2018 at 1:28 PM..
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  #9058  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:37 PM
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Beanz, I happy to hear that you're getting back on the horse.
I'm taking the Adv Tactical on June 1st so maybe I'll see you there.
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  #9059  
Old 02-07-2018, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Beanz, I happy to hear that you're getting back on the horse.
I'm taking the Adv Tactical on June 1st so maybe I'll see you there.
Thanks, Jedi. The wife is hardly enthused. She still thinks the weak-side one-handed malfunction clearance exercises are silly. She says, "By the time you do all that, you'd be shot dead anyway!" I have to show her your post above, hoping that will get her enthused.

So, if we take Tactical HG in May and our last DG in 4DDHG was from April 2017, we should still be able to take ATHG in June, right? No guarantee that we'll DG again in March, we haven't practiced in a while.
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  #9060  
Old 02-07-2018, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Thanks, Jedi. The wife is hardly enthused. She still thinks the weak-side one-handed malfunction clearance exercises are silly. She says, "By the time you do all that, you'd be shot dead anyway!" I have to show her your post above, hoping that will get her enthused.

So, if we take Tactical HG in May and our last DG in 4DDHG was from April 2017, we should still be able to take ATHG in June, right? No guarantee that we'll DG again in March, we haven't practiced in a while.
Are there still "sunset provisions" on the prerequisites?
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  #9061  
Old 02-07-2018, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Me too.
500 on 12/24 Xmas Gift
500 on 1/8 New Years gift
500 on 1/27 2nd New Years gift

Looks like my background checks are covered for a little bit along with a t-shirt or two. Still trying to find a private training date that works for both FS and my family so no trips booked yet.

Cool, I hadn't realized that.
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  #9062  
Old 02-07-2018, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
Are there still "sunset provisions" on the prerequisites?
You know what? The course descriptions don't say the DG-within-the-past-2-years requirement anymore. Thanks for making me check that.

Yaayyy, that means I can take 4 day Precision Rifle! My last rifle DG was in 2013. I lost interest in FS Practical Rifle classes after they dropped the canyon shoot and substituted the Wilson Wall.

(BTW, if you love the old canyon shoot at FS, consider LMS Defense's Practical Rifle then Practical Scoped Rifle in Hollister. Two days of straight canyon shooting)
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  #9063  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
You know what? The course descriptions don't say the DG-within-the-past-2-years requirement anymore. Thanks for making me check that.

Yaayyy, that means I can take 4 day Precision Rifle! My last rifle DG was in 2013. I lost interest in FS Practical Rifle classes after they dropped the canyon shoot and substituted the Wilson Wall.

(BTW, if you love the old canyon shoot at FS, consider LMS Defense's Practical Rifle then Practical Scoped Rifle in Hollister. Two days of straight canyon shooting)
The Wilson wall is a fine exercise but not a replacement for a simulator/canyon shoot. They lessened the class with that trade-off.

Thanks for the LMS suggestion. Never heard of them. Will have to check them out.
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  #9064  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:15 PM
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Thanks for the LMS suggestion. Never heard of them. Will have to check them out.
You're welcome. Be in shape to take this class and use good practical gear. The low light/night shoot is awesome. The mall ninjas soon learn what works, what is needed for their rifles and what is not
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  #9065  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:51 AM
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Anyone going to be out the 16th - 19th?
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  #9066  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:51 AM
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Anyone going to be out the 16th - 19th?
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  #9067  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:02 PM
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Anyone going to be out the 16th - 19th?
Iím taking Advanced Tactical Feb 21-22
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  #9068  
Old 02-09-2018, 1:29 PM
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Taking 2 day pistol skill builder 19 and 20th. Was going to take the tactical but figured I wanted to work on some issues rather than just advance and not address problem that I need to solve to get better.
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  #9069  
Old 02-09-2018, 4:59 PM
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Anyone going to be out the 16th - 19th?
Iíll be out there doing precision rifle
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  #9070  
Old 02-09-2018, 6:30 PM
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Iím taking Advanced Tactical Feb 21-22
I'll be at Master Prep Feb 21-22
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  #9071  
Old 02-09-2018, 7:36 PM
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Cool looks like a few of us will be out there.

Anyone know if concealment is used in Tactical HG? Have a few friends talking it on the 19th
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  #9072  
Old 02-09-2018, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
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Cool looks like a few of us will be out there.

Anyone know if concealment is used in Tactical HG? Have a few friends talking it on the 19th
You CAN use concealment starting the afternoon of the first day. And itís optional from then on.
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  #9073  
Old 02-09-2018, 7:55 PM
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Thanks!
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  #9074  
Old 02-09-2018, 7:56 PM
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Thanks!
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  #9075  
Old 02-10-2018, 4:25 PM
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im such a doofus... I wanted 4 day practical rifle and when I got the confirmation seen that class is 1 one month away from when I wanted. Oh well taking 4 day handgun now.
what the deal with the night class, can I be enrolled at the same time? is that too much 8-midnight for shooting?
whats in the store that credits can be used for?
are there places close by for dinner and a beer or two? I'm staying at a popular air b n b I think
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  #9076  
Old 02-10-2018, 4:25 PM
cxr cxr is offline
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im such a doofus... I wanted 4 day practical rifle and when I got the confirmation seen that class is 1 one month away from when I wanted. Oh well taking 4 day handgun now.
what the deal with the night class, can I be enrolled at the same time? is that too much 8-midnight for shooting?
whats in the store that credits can be used for?
are there places close by for dinner and a beer or two? I'm staying at a popular air b n b I think
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  #9077  
Old 02-10-2018, 4:35 PM
damon1272 damon1272 is offline
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Cant speak to night shoots as I have not done it. As for hanging out and getting a few beers? Sure if you can. The 4 day is some long days and you are beat by the end. Beat in a good way but not much left for hanging out afterwards. Food is about 20-30 min away in Pahrump.
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  #9078  
Old 02-10-2018, 6:02 PM
boe737 boe737 is offline
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I have a lifetime membership gift certificate to FS given to me by daughter who won it at a charity auction. Would be willing to trade for a couple Glock 26's, if anybody interested.
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  #9079  
Old 02-10-2018, 6:02 PM
boe737 boe737 is offline
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I have a lifetime membership gift certificate to FS given to me by daughter who won it at a charity auction. Would be willing to trade for a couple Glock 26's, if anybody interested.
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  #9080  
Old 02-10-2018, 6:12 PM
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AAShooter AAShooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe737 View Post
I have a lifetime membership gift certificate to FS given to me by daughter who won it at a charity auction. Would be willing to trade for a couple Glock 26's, if anybody interested.
Good luck with that. A couple of Glock 26 magazines is more in line. Sorry.
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