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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 01-03-2018, 9:14 AM
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Hope the OP finds something in his wheelhouse. One word of advise is take your time and don't settle. I waited about 3 months before finally finding a Savage Ashbury for about $600 off the normal price :<). I can GURANTEE it shoots better than the Remington or Tika cheapos and I didn't have to A. build a franken super rifle or B. Break my wallet to do it. Some of us just want a decent shooting gun for a decent price out of the box. I really liked the bergara though I wouldn't go LRP because I' am cheap and there's Rugers and Savages that are close to being similar enough to outshoot me.
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  #42  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
The LRP Elite is.... okay.

Cool, you has one? My original question was "what's better/different on the Elite vs the regular LRP other than the buttstock?"

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Originally Posted by negolien View Post
Hope the OP finds something in his wheelhouse. One word of advise is take your time and don't settle. I waited about 3 months before finally finding a Savage Ashbury for about $600 off the normal price :<). I can GURANTEE it shoots better than the Remington or Tika cheapos and I didn't have to A. build a franken super rifle or B. Break my wallet to do it. Some of us just want a decent shooting gun for a decent price out of the box. I really liked the bergara though I wouldn't go LRP because I' am cheap and there's Rugers and Savages that are close to being similar enough to outshoot me.
Thanks. I haven't settled on a Bergara, I haven't fondled one yet. TBH the Savage in a chassis seems like it would work for my purposes* but I want to explore all options. I'm not real keen on the APO though, because of the buttstock and no easy answer on a replacement.

*Purpose for gun is long range plinking at rocks, dirt clods, etc. MAYBE the occasional prairie dog-like critter. PRS-like stuff sometime in the future.
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  #43  
Old 01-03-2018, 1:14 PM
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The LRP Elite gets a the Mega Orias chassis and the Magpul stock of course. Also it has a Timney trigger, but I believe the barrel and action are the same as the Premier.

I was zeroing mine over the holiday on my family's 300 yard range. Unfortunately my bore sighting was *way* off so while it was making tight little three round groups, it was no where near POA. But very consistent shooter. I put the Dead Air key mount brake on it so if I ever get a can it'll be an easy addition.
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  #44  
Old 01-03-2018, 2:37 PM
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Thanks. You're going to have a hard time stretching out there in Oaktown.
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  #45  
Old 01-03-2018, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Thanks. You're going to have a hard time stretching out there in Oaktown.
That's why we have the 300 yard range at the family place out in the valley. But honestly when i get everything dialed in, even that will be inadequate so I'll have to start making the trek to Sacramento.
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  #46  
Old 01-03-2018, 7:23 PM
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Or get your family to buy more land.

How many acres would you guess it takes to make a 300 yard range?
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  #47  
Old 01-03-2018, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Or get your family to buy more land.

How many acres would you guess it takes to make a 300 yard range?
Depends how wide it is?
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  #48  
Old 01-03-2018, 9:12 PM
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Sigstroker... I fondled with a Bergara B14 and the action was nice and very much like my rem700 with a bit of grit; which Iíve polished on my 700 and now itís smooth. But then I fondled a tikka Tac a1 and Iím really hooked for now... so many options out there making it hard to pick.


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  #49  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:31 PM
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I've played with a Tikka before. When it's already cocked it's super smooth, but that's now how you shoot. Cocking it was probably not quite as smooth as a Vanguard, although the teflon coating on the Tikka makes it slide real nice once it's open. I'd like to play with the Bergara LRP, which is a different action than the B14.

I've read up more on what the PRS guys shoot. It's insane, they spend used car money on some of their rigs. It's hard to understand, PRS targets are 2 moa. And as someone posted in another thread, cutting group sizes in half only increases your hit probability by a little bit. Yet it costs serious bucks to cut group sizes in half.
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  #50  
Old 01-04-2018, 6:39 AM
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sigstroker you kind of answered your own questions about why guys spend that kinda money on their equipment...because it works...rain,shine,sleet,snow,cold,hot,wet,dry,mud ,dust,dirt,wind it keeps running the down fall are triggers...when they get a lotta crap in them they dont want to work...douche them with lighter fluid and most times your up and running.

now im not knocking any other brand or trying to convince you to buy something you dont want(and i sincerely mean that)but i can tell you that a factory outta the box rifle is not going to run with a custom i dont care what anyone says or tells you its just a fact.

i shot savage for 7yrs...the PTA i had with a 26" bartlein was one of the most accurate rifles i owned...chambered in 260rem it would drill .293-.295 10 shot groups day in and day out but it was a single shot so once i started to move into tactical and PRS type shooting it had to go.

i was familiar with savage and had 300wm that i could hit 6" AR500 targets at 1000yds 6 outta 10 times so i shot that at a few matches...it was a little to much gun and ppl didnt like me much so i rechambered to a 260 and basically had nothing but feed and ejection issues...part because it was a long action but more because its just the nature of the savage action...is a savage accurate? yes very much so...will it run in a PRS/tactical type match? maybe...maybe not...my experience...no...and several guys i know would tell you the same thing.

i moved into a surgeon 591 in a mcmillan A5...started as a 260 after 1 barrel i moved to a 6mm creed which i shot for the last couple of years...this rifle has been run in stuff that most ppl would not even think about going out shooting in...i had one failure...my jewell trigger went down and never recovered.

ive now moved into the the rifle i posted in your thread here but ONLY because its going to improve my scores because it will run a bit faster due to the design of the action.

i know im rambling on but im making a point...i also break/sight in rifles for some hunters i know that dont have time(really are just well off)so ive handled a lot of high end rifles and while some are IMHO not so great and others are silky smooth....would they run with a custom? NO!

now my point is are the outta the box rifles nice? accurate? yes they are! can they be used as comp guns? sure!
but in the end they WILL NOT run with a custom other wise every pro shooter would be shooting them at matches instead of the expensive rifles they shoot now.

one of the(if not the)biggest things shooting comps is confidence in your equipment...a couple of failure to feeds or extracts or FTFs will mind F--k
you right out of winning a match...when sh-t start going south its hard to recover for most ppl.

so IMHO if your going to spend $1800-$2000 on a factory rifle why not just spend another $500-$800 and build a rifle that all you will have to do is have a barrel spun on when its time?

if its just to be different by all means go for it but if you plan to shoot tactical type comps at least go to a match or two and see what others are running and talk to the guys.

oh and one more thing...cutting groups size is easier achieved with trigger time and practice off obstacles more so than spending money...a 1 minute gun can win matches with a good shooter if it runs well.

Last edited by longrange1; 01-04-2018 at 6:47 AM..
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  #51  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:10 AM
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Well, I can guaran-damm-tee you I will never spend 7 grand for a bolt rifle. And it will be a long, long time before I wear out a barrel. My lifetime of rifle shooting, including the number of rounds put through an M16, don't total enough rounds to wear out a barrel.

But if I DID spend 7 grand for one, I would also poo-poo the idea that a $1500 rifle could do a similar job. BTW the Bergara LRP's use the same action they use to build their customs.

Customs come with Timneys? So do both LRP's.

Customs come in weird calibers? That's the last thing I want. I want a known quantity, like a 6.5 CM that has tons of published data on what works well so I can copy it. I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

Your experience with trying to run a short round in a long Savage action doesn't sway me at all. I wouldn't even try such a venture.

If a bolt gun can't run a 15 round stage without malfunction, I'll go back to my tried and true autoloaders that burn through 10 30 round magazines in 2 minutes without a hiccup.
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  #52  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:37 AM
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This thread is pointless
OP wants to buy Bergara LRP and he simply discards any other suggestion made here.
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  #53  
Old 01-04-2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Well, I can guaran-damm-tee you I will never spend 7 grand for a bolt rifle. And it will be a long, long time before I wear out a barrel. My lifetime of rifle shooting, including the number of rounds put through an M16, don't total enough rounds to wear out a barrel.

But if I DID spend 7 grand for one, I would also poo-poo the idea that a $1500 rifle could do a similar job. BTW the Bergara LRP's use the same action they use to build their customs.

Customs come with Timneys? So do both LRP's.

Customs come in weird calibers? That's the last thing I want. I want a known quantity, like a 6.5 CM that has tons of published data on what works well so I can copy it. I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

Your experience with trying to run a short round in a long Savage action doesn't sway me at all. I wouldn't even try such a venture.

If a bolt gun can't run a 15 round stage without malfunction, I'll go back to my tried and true autoloaders that burn through 10 30 round magazines in 2 minutes without a hiccup.
LOL you are to much sig and have a lot to learn...good luck.
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  #54  
Old 01-04-2018, 3:01 PM
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LOL you are to much sig and have a lot to learn...good luck.
I guess I should just throw away my Remington 700

Today's 5 shot groups; bottom one with a sighter was first shot before adjustment. My rings were a little loose from last week so I leveled things out and tightened her up for today.



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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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  #55  
Old 01-04-2018, 3:19 PM
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Iíd toss it...after all it is a Remington lol.


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  #56  
Old 01-04-2018, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOdessa View Post
This thread is pointless
OP wants to buy Bergara LRP and he simply discards any other suggestion made here.
Well the OP did only ask about the Bergara.


The Spaniards do make really good barrels.

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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Are any of you gunsmiths and/or long range experts familiar with the Bergara LRP? The difference in the real world street prices between the LRP and LRP elite is about $500. Besides the obvious difference of the Elite having the Magpul stock, is it worth the 500 bucks over the non-Elite?

http://bergarausa.com/bergara_premie..._lrp_rifle.php

http://www.bergarausa.com/bergara_pr...lite_rifle.php
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  #57  
Old 01-04-2018, 5:16 PM
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Just saying. You guys realize the bergera is basically a product improved 700 action right? Same foot print, same triggers and mounting on receiver. A coned bolt head and sako ejector are a definite improvement- over a stock gun. Bergera makes good barrels too. Not to mention the barrel with a savage style barrel nut so you can change your own if you want. What ever the op does or doesn't want to listen to as far as others experience and knowledge with custom guns that run matches that's on him. if it's a case of his mind being made up about what he wants fine.

What he wants or thinks doesn't take away from fact the rifle has merit.
Freedom group products are not going to get better, and any 700 Smith can put the same parts on the bergera action.
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  #58  
Old 01-04-2018, 5:56 PM
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Well the OP did only ask about the Bergara.


The Spaniards do make really good barrels.
Read it again. I asked about the differences between two specific Bergaras. I haven't chosen anything yet. I'm still gathering information and this thread is part of that.

But there are a handful of dogmatic posters in here that don't care that I asked question A, they want to answer questions B, C, and D. Over and over again.
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  #59  
Old 01-04-2018, 6:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXRifleManXx View Post
Just saying. You guys realize the bergera is basically a product improved 700 action right? Same foot print, same triggers and mounting on receiver. A coned bolt head and sako ejector are a definite improvement- over a stock gun. Bergera makes good barrels too. Not to mention the barrel with a savage style barrel nut so you can change your own if you want. What ever the op does or doesn't want to listen to as far as others experience and knowledge with custom guns that run matches that's on him. if it's a case of his mind being made up about what he wants fine.

What he wants or thinks doesn't take away from fact the rifle has merit.
Freedom group products are not going to get better, and any 700 Smith can put the same parts on the bergera action.
You are underinformed. First of all, I'm asking about the LRP, which uses a different action than the B14. Regardless, Bergara did away with the barrel nut on the B14. Their custom action has a non-rotating gas shield and a wobble bolt head - like a Savage.
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  #60  
Old 01-04-2018, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You are underinformed. First of all, I'm asking about the LRP, which uses a different action than the B14. Regardless, Bergara did away with the barrel nut on the B14. Their custom action has a non-rotating gas shield and a wobble bolt head - like a Savage.
Oh well I stand corrected on the lrp and barrel nut. B14 is still impressive for a practical rifle entry imo. I don't have anytime behind the lrp, but the pictures look nice
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  #61  
Old 01-06-2018, 11:09 AM
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Another fly in the ointment: https://christensenarms.com/modern-precision-rifle/

Review: https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...ion-rifle-mpr/

MSRP is 2295. Unfortunately nobody seems to be selling this thing so it might be real tough to find for under two grand.
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  #62  
Old 01-06-2018, 11:31 AM
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That is pretty cool, but very light. Weight is not always a bad thing.
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  #63  
Old 01-06-2018, 4:09 PM
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The weight doesn't worry me much. I'm not in CA so a silencer works pretty well as a muzzle brake.
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  #64  
Old 01-06-2018, 7:37 PM
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Sig, check out Alamo Precision rifles. They have a "production" rifle they make. It's a built up rifle by them, but I believe they warranty their rifles too.
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  #65  
Old 01-10-2018, 5:07 PM
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I happened across the Masterpiece Arms site. While they are a respected manufacturer in the precision shooting world, I first heard of them because of the crappy little M11/9 clones they make. That's not to say they do a crappy job of cloning, the M11/9 is a crappy pistol to begin with. It's not so bad as a machine gun, but it's a turd as a pistol. It's hilarious that MPA manufactures both these product lines.

Anyway, I notice they have this Evolution service. They take your barreled action, stick on a new barrel, true it, shave it, wave a dead chicken over it, etc, etc and wahlah, you has a custom built rifle. In their top line competition chassis it costs.....

$1850!!

They have slightly less magnificent chassis that are as low as $1650! Since I happen to have a couple perfectly fine Savage model 12's lying around, complete with varmint-grade Accutriggers, I find myself actually considering going that route.

BTW the MPA chassis is the second most popular stock/chassis among PRS pros.

Last edited by sigstroker; 01-10-2018 at 5:11 PM..
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  #66  
Old 01-10-2018, 5:31 PM
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You live in a free state, posted about getting a rifle and you still haven't bought one?

Some of us would've bought 2 more by now, and a hand gun due to the lack of 10-day wait.
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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  #67  
Old 01-10-2018, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I happened across the Masterpiece Arms site. While they are a respected manufacturer in the precision shooting world, I first heard of them because of the crappy little M11/9 clones they make. That's not to say they do a crappy job of cloning, the M11/9 is a crappy pistol to begin with. It's not so bad as a machine gun, but it's a turd as a pistol. It's hilarious that MPA manufactures both these product lines.

Anyway, I notice they have this Evolution service. They take your barreled action, stick on a new barrel, true it, shave it, wave a dead chicken over it, etc, etc and wahlah, you has a custom built rifle. In their top line competition chassis it costs.....

$1850!!

They have slightly less magnificent chassis that are as low as $1650! Since I happen to have a couple perfectly fine Savage model 12's lying around, complete with varmint-grade Accutriggers, I find myself actually considering going that route.

BTW the MPA chassis is the second most popular stock/chassis among PRS pros.


That is something I consider a much better value. That's all I was trying to get across in my first post in this thread.
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  #68  
Old 01-10-2018, 10:51 PM
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A couple important points - for one, they are a manufacturer. I have more confidence in them still being around and in business 5 years from now than Ernie the Rifle Wrangler.

Secondly, no Remington required. They do Savages.

Thirdly, their chassis prices are on their website for all to see. I can see the value I'm getting. OTOH all my barrel needs is threading for a silencer so I could just buy one of their chassis and slap my action in myself.
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  #69  
Old 01-13-2018, 8:05 PM
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Wow, this thing looks like a relative bargain.

http://www.kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=123290

Under 2200 bucks. It's built on a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action, which is a thousand bucks just by itself. The chassis sells for $700 alone. This thing has way more than $2200 in it just in parts. Of course I can't possibly make the best use of all this high zoot stuff, but I have trouble resisting a huge bargain...

I'm really glad I can't put my hands on it and fondle it, or I'd be done for, for sure.
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  #70  
Old 01-14-2018, 3:45 AM
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Default Bergara LRP?

so now after you basically bashing customs and remington your starting to realize that there are better deals out there than outta the box rifles for just a few more bucks?

funny...a lot of ppl tried to tell you this but your hard hardheadedness and hate for remington made you not want to hear it....at least your doing YOUR OWN research and figuring things out for yourself which is a good thing.

this looks like the same rifle same specs just with the better chassis...i dont know why its a $1000 bucks more...im assuming because Kentucky gun is a dealer and gets a break on pricing.

https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa...-action-rifle/

and just an FYI the BA lite chassis is a fantastic chassis but it is just what it says...LITE...2.9lbs...its got some flex to it...i have fondled one and didnt like it personally but thats not to say you wont.

the kelbly is a fantastic action but its not thousands its $999 direct from kelbly... https://www.kelbly.com/actions-steel...-tactical.html and me pointing this out is not an attempt to bash or discredit you so dont take it that way...my point is JUST LIKE IN MY OTHER POSTS you can build or have built a WAY better riffle than any outta the box factory rifle for VERY close to the same.

look back at post #40...that rifle was $2825 minus scope rings and bipod....

And this is why ppl pay for customs...
850yds...the black square is 1”....

Last edited by longrange1; 01-14-2018 at 3:51 AM..
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  #71  
Old 01-14-2018, 6:23 AM
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Wow
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  #72  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:17 AM
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TS Customs (a very good gunsmith) posted on another forum that he could put together a custom rifle with the following...

-6.5CM Benchmark Barrel with contour of your choice
-Lone Peak Arms Razor Action (has integrated lug and a pinned 20 MOA base)
-Threaded Muzzle with a self trimming brake (or just threads for a can)
-Trigger Tech Trigger
-KRG Bravo Chassis

All for $2550. That's a hell of a value.
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  #73  
Old 01-14-2018, 12:15 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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so now after you basically bashing customs and remington your starting to realize that there are better deals out there than outta the box rifles for just a few more bucks?

funny...a lot of ppl tried to tell you this but your hard hardheadedness and hate for remington made you not want to hear it....at least your doing YOUR OWN research and figuring things out for yourself which is a good thing.

this looks like the same rifle same specs just with the better chassis...i dont know why its a $1000 bucks more...im assuming because Kentucky gun is a dealer and gets a break on pricing.

https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa...-action-rifle/

and just an FYI the BA lite chassis is a fantastic chassis but it is just what it says...LITE...2.9lbs...its got some flex to it...i have fondled one and didnt like it personally but thats not to say you wont.

the kelbly is a fantastic action but its not thousands its $999 direct from kelbly... https://www.kelbly.com/actions-steel...-tactical.html and me pointing this out is not an attempt to bash or discredit you so dont take it that way...my point is JUST LIKE IN MY OTHER POSTS you can build or have built a WAY better riffle than any outta the box factory rifle for VERY close to the same.

look back at post #40...that rifle was $2825 minus scope rings and bipod....

And this is why ppl pay for customs...
850yds...the black square is 1”....
Wat? You contradict yourself in the same post. You say how great Remingtons are then you admit the one I posted about is a Kelbly. It may look a little like a Remington on the outside, but it is a LONG way from being a Remington.

You say I'm wrong about the price when I said it was a thousand bucks, and then you say it's $999.

And this pic points out to me a huge waste. All that's needed is a hit anywhere on it. You get bupkis extra for that small group.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:22 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
TS Customs (a very good gunsmith) posted on another forum that he could put together a custom rifle with the following...

-6.5CM Benchmark Barrel with contour of your choice
-Lone Peak Arms Razor Action (has integrated lug and a pinned 20 MOA base)
-Threaded Muzzle with a self trimming brake (or just threads for a can)
-Trigger Tech Trigger
-KRG Bravo Chassis

All for $2550. That's a hell of a value.
Why would I want to do that? I can buy the above MPA for less money, and I don't have to care who built it. Ten years from now I can still send it back to MPA if I need to, and they will have someone fix it. I don't care who that is either.

It also come with a .5 moa guarantee, which is far more than I need or can use.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:36 PM
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NorCalFocus NorCalFocus is offline
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Why would I want to do that? I can buy the above MPA for less money, and I don't have to care who built it. Ten years from now I can still send it back to MPA if I need to, and they will have someone fix it. I don't care who that is either.



It also come with a .5 moa guarantee, which is far more than I need or can use.


I was simply pointing out the value of getting a custom vs your original Bergara. You can buy what ever your heart desires.
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  #76  
Old 01-14-2018, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Wat? You contradict yourself in the same post. You say how great Remingtons are then you admit the one I posted about is a Kelbly. It may look a little like a Remington on the outside, but it is a LONG way from being a Remington.

You say I'm wrong about the price when I said it was a thousand bucks, and then you say it's $999.

And this pic points out to me a huge waste. All that's needed is a hit anywhere on it. You get bupkis extra for that small group.

You are remarkably rude to people who take their time to help you.
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  #77  
Old 01-14-2018, 1:38 PM
longrange1 longrange1 is online now
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Wat? You contradict yourself in the same post. You say how great Remingtons are then you admit the one I posted about is a Kelbly. It may look a little like a Remington on the outside, but it is a LONG way from being a Remington.
this makes no sense sig i NEVER pointed out how great remingtons are i just pointed out YOU bashing them(AND CUSTOMS)and then YOU looking at a REMINGTON FOOT PRINT CUSTOM action...trust me there is NOT a HUGE difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You say I'm wrong about the price when I said it was a thousand bucks, and then you say it's $999.
you got me here...i miss read and thought you said thousands...with a S...my bad i should learn to read a little better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
And this pic points out to me a huge waste. All that's needed is a hit anywhere on it. You get bupkis extra for that small group.
i guess you got me here too...but you wont have that big of targets in a PRS match...most targets are 1-1.5moa so i guess if your rifle will shoot 8.5" groups at 850yds your good to go...the real question is...can you hold one minute at 850yds?

like norcalfocus i was just trying to make a point about a better than an outta the box rifle at or near the same price as your original question about the Bergara but as usual you just ***** all over any type of advise anyone try's to give you so buy what you want.

you know sig as much as i see you post in the center fire section and as much as you SEEM to think you know id think you would have all this figured out...things that make you go HUMMM!!

and as far as needing to send your rifle back in 10yrs..WAT?? you have NO idea if MPA or Kentucky guns will be in business then...there is no guarantee they will be around next week let alone in ten years or 5yrs and anything youd have to send that rifle back for a local smith would take care of JUST LIKE THE FACTORY WOULD!! so that argument is pointless!!

PLEASE buy a Bergara or a savage then go shoot some matches and maybe after you get your ***** handed to you a time or two youll understand and then maybe...just maybe...you will at least listen to SOME of the advise your getting from guys that actually shoot matches...AND WIN!!

good luck sig im done with you.

Last edited by longrange1; 01-14-2018 at 1:48 PM..
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  #78  
Old 01-14-2018, 1:46 PM
longrange1 longrange1 is online now
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You are remarkably rude to people who take their time to help you.
i think dick is the word you were looking for.
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Old 01-14-2018, 3:00 PM
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Kwikvette Kwikvette is offline
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Man, reply #1 (post #2) suggested from the start he should consider a custom
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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Old 01-14-2018, 4:37 PM
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Default Bergara LRP?

Edited: Never mind, this thread is nuts.


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