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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#121
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The bill as written explicitly prevents any arrest or detainment for "any" law or regulation pertaining to the possession, carry, or transportation of a firearm. Please see post #56 in this thread for a breakdown of the wording. Quoted below: Quote:
Last edited by DirtyLaundry; 12-06-2017 at 3:38 PM.. |
#122
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Text from the Bill itself “(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#123
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Here’s how the committee report described it: Quote:
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#124
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#126
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This seems like an easy 10th am. challenge in court
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#127
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God I hope so, but I doubt it.
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#128
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I fear that in order to get through the Senate, they'll have to go with a residency requirement, but fingers crossed! Lots of work left to do. Good idea to press the leadership and our own reps / senators to pass it (even if it seems fruitless to pressure Harris and Feinstein). Frankly, any reciprocity - even with a residency requirement - is better than nothing and continues to advance the ball and put pressure on CA sheriffs to move closer to shall-issue. |
#129
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#130
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Senate dems are (hopefully) going to be forced to shoot down fix-NICS to have any chance of stopping reciprocity. I don't think that is a winning political move for a lot of dems, and I hope they'll bend to that reality, and accept reciprocity to get fix-NICS. Dems raise a lot of money from gun-control orgs, but gun rights orgs deliver votes (which is why the NRA is so demonized, IMHO). The history of gun control and the democrats, it seems to me, is that they tend to be harmed (nationally) by pushing for more controls. And pushing hard enough to stop a bill promising to strengthen the background check improvements of fix-NICS in trade for reciprocity would open them up to very effective arguments (provided repubs and others can for once in their lives make those effective arguments). |
#131
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#132
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#133
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__________________
Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run Last edited by 71MUSTY; 12-06-2017 at 6:47 PM.. |
#134
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RGN titled the map "Right-to-Carry" because, with Shall Issue, as long as you satisfy the objective criteria for being issued a CCW, a CCW "shall" be issued to you: you have a "right" to it under state law. It is not a privilege. FWIW, at this time, IIRC, even ConCarry states can readily pass laws to go back to Shall Issue or even May Issue. I don't think any changed their constitutions to make Concealed Carry a state right. And, of course, we all know at this point in time, SCOTUS has not declared either OC or CC a right under the 2nd A of the federal Constitution. So I don't think there are ANY states that have "the actual right" as you phrased it. (Maybe VT, but then again, that would only be under their state constitution, not also protected by the federal one (yet!).)
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 12-06-2017 at 8:27 PM.. |
#135
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I should mention for folks starting to think about applying for non-resident CCWs that FL's is for 7 years, so that's plenty of time for this to fail this year, get passed next legislative session and to be challenged in the federal courts and yet still have time on it so that when you renew, it will be after the tsunami of applications sure to come in from the May Issue states (~27% of the national population).
That's what I did.... I'd also suggest you go through the 220+ examples of CCWers saving lives I've linked in my sig line. (I stopped prematurely on the first page of the thread to restart it on the 2nd page.) Other than being a pizza delivery driver, who gets attacked is quite unpredictable. Sure, EDCing a G19 with spare mags and a BUG would be great. But the main lesson, IMO, is to frickin' EDC something! The more the better, but a J-frame or .380 in the pocket trumps a 9/.40/.44/.45/whatever in your safe at home every time.
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 12-06-2017 at 6:56 PM.. |
#136
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I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few democrats that vote for it. There are a few in Red States that would get ousted if they dont vote for this. Montana's democrat senator comes to mind.
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#138
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As it is currently written, YES
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#140
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I don't think it does allow a person to carry in CA if they only have an out of state license. This part, "... is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides..." is what concerns me on that front.
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Remember, you can post here because they died over there. www.BlackRiverTraining.com |
#142
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HR 38 essentially provides two classes of persons entitled to reciprocity rights in terms of CCW: (1) those with a permit issued by A state, or (2) those who are resident in a state that allows carry without a permit (i.e., Constitutional Carry states). The phrase you quote captures bucket number 2 - those in a Con Carry state that can CCW without a permit. |
#143
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#145
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Caveats: 1. If the house version of the bill is signed into law, I would fully expect CA and other states to sue to prohibit its enforcement in CA and wouldn't be surprised to see a CA court enjoin the law. 2. If the house version of the bill is signed into law, I would expect CA authorities to explore ignoring it, and prosecuting a few folks -- i.e., without seeking to overturn the law itself, they'd go after individuals and litigate for a decision that supports their view that the law is invalid as to CA residents who don't have a CA LTC. 3. If the house version of the bill is signed into law, the wrinkle of having been denied a CA LTC would also offer up an opportunity to litigate the issue, with some individual's potential conviction on the line. 4. If the house version of the bill is signed into law, I expect CA would get up to all sorts of mischief (think gun free school zones, on a much wider basis). 5. If the house version of the bill is signed into law, expect all sorts of other ideas to attempt to preempt its effects for CA residents. My personal view is: (1) if you don't have a non-res permit, maybe time to think about getting one before a potential crush of applications hit; and (2) also wouldn't worry too much about passage just yet - long way to go, but moving in the right direction. (BTW - some of your posts from months back encouraged me to get a FFL03 and CoE well before crunch time of Dec 2017 arrived ; similar posts by others encouraged me to get a non-resident permit outside California in case reciprocity actually passes, or (back then) Peruta came out somewhat differently.) |
#146
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Without digging through the companion thread and prior discussions on HR38's non-resident permit implications, I'd offer up a link to the House report on defeated amendments, first posted by FailedAngrMgmt in the companion thread. Click the link and scroll down to roll call vote #4: https://www.congress.gov/congression...use-report/433
Or see FailedAngrMgmt's post here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...postcount=1375 |
#148
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I don’t think they are going to get 60 votes and Californians that do not have a CCW get a big nothing burger. So why the excitement?
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Calguns Contributor NRA Benefactor Member CRPA Member San Diego County Gun Owners Patriot Member What have you done for 2A lately? |
#150
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Californians that have an out of state CCW may have a chance to carry, if things go well. |
#151
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For national reciprocity? Lol. Never going to happen.
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Depends if the democrats in the senate will allow it to come to a vote. I suspect they won't. |
#152
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2. If the senate version of the house bill is passed, then the bill goes to conference, a second opportunity for the house bill. 3. If the senate version of the house bill is passed, and it goes to conference and the senate version (requiring permit from state of residence) passes, then CCW rights are expanded nationwide, even if CA residents don't directly benefit in the near term. But CA residents in may-issue counties should still benefit indirectly -- a visitor from out of state can exercise 2A rights in such counties, but it is (near) impossible for a CA resident to do so? 4. If neither the senate nor house version passes in the senate, then they're be a clearer line drawn around those not willing to support the bill, and those voting against will be on record not wanting to support a law that would strengthen the existing background check system, a key argument of those disinclined to support 2A rights. Put another way, our elected representatives, house or senate, are going to have to make what may be a hard choice from their own perspective and go on the record again as to where they stand, which is the essence of a representative democratic republic, and face voters for their choice. That has been a positive for 2A rights over the past several decades, and a real headache for politicians who are not necessarily 2A friendly. The legislative history (and momentum) of CCW-related laws favors a pro-CCW attitude. Elected leaders pay attention to these trends. One doesn't typically land a knock-out punch - it's usually lots of jabs. This bill offers up a powerful jab. All IMHO. |
#153
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With the house bill as written there is a real chance here for out of state non-resident CCW that is valid in CA should it pass as is. |
#154
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If they need to pick up extra senate votes, there's still more bargaining chips to be played, like DACA, bump stocks, or amending the current version where concarry residents will still need a permit to be covered. They could also use as a last resort using the Senate's language and include "other than the state of residence", although the Dem senate targets for this ALL live in shall issue states, and many of those are either concarry or honor all other permits anyway. So how do they say it's going to cause a bloodbath when their state isn't affected in the slightest?
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#155
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I kind of view national reciprocity as being similar to a driver's license. Imagine if CA suddenly said hey we will no longer honor out-of-state driver's licenses. Libs have been yammering on for years about how they want guns to be regulated like cars/driver's license. Well... national reciprocity is a step in that direction. Good or bad. So I wonder if there is some regulatory simile between how a D.L. works and how national reciprocity for CCW would work. And what happens if a state refuses to honor it? So that's definitely an interesting scenario. |
#156
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__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
#158
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Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I guess I am such a pessimist these days.....
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Calguns Contributor NRA Benefactor Member CRPA Member San Diego County Gun Owners Patriot Member What have you done for 2A lately? |
#159
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However, this is a narrow exemption to local gun laws. The rest of the local gun laws remain in effect and are enforceable.
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#160
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National reciprocity bill
Ok. Maybe someone has already asked this but I haven't seen it.
If National reciprocity gets passed.... What happens when someone from another state comes into California and has a non roster gun, magazines with over 10 rounds and fragmentable rounds in their gun. All illegal in California. What happens??
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Remember if you have to pull, don't hesitate and shoot straight... But there is no reason to pull if there's no imminent danger..... |
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