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  #81  
Old 11-10-2017, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cbn620 View Post
I think Judaism and Christianity are worshiping the same God and this is outlined in the Gospel (Jesus being the new covenant) and also in the book of Hebrews (his succession in the line of the order of the high priesthood of Melchizedek.) From my reading of the Bible I think Christ made the Gentiles the new Jews in a sense; lines and lines of prophets were ignored and Israel went astray so many times in the Bible and Christ is the final covenant and the salvation and redemption of the whole world making all who believe in him God's chosen people.

There's an argument to be made that Islam is too corrupted from Judeo-Christianity to be worshiping the same god, but the early Church considered Islam to basically be just another Christian heresy, so if that theology is correct then they are worshiping the same god, they are just in very serious and grievous error.
I understand why, on an academic level, someone might believe that two religions worship the same god. It's understandable when all the abrahamaic religions have common history and holy texts. But when you study each group individually, to me, it becomes quite clear that they are not recognizing the same god.

Take Rastafari, for example. This religion recognizes Jesus as Christ. However, they believe he returned in the form of a military leader in the 1920's. The Christ that they worship is not the same Christ a Catholic or Methodist worship.

The god of Judaism did not yet come to Earth and atone for the sins of mankind, while the God of Christianity did. This is what I mean when I state that these religions don't follow the same God.

Also, some people seem to think that an argument that two religions worship two different gods iz the same as an assertion that there exists more than one god. That is not the case.
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  #82  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kygen View Post
Allah is God in Arabic. Christian Arabs use the term Allah; are you saying they don't believe in the Abrahamic God?
Yes, moslems believe in the moon god, thus the crescent moon as their symbol
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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #83  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
So many people killed in the name of religion because of their different belief systems about the same God.
It is so sad.
You know what is even more sad? So many more killed in the name of atheism.

But to your point of same god, there is only one God.
Hindus, have hundreds of god
moslems have the moon god

Where do you find that they all worship the same God?
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  #84  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
The issue for me, which I raised but nobody addressed, is that if religion "a" says they are the true religion and the one true way to heaven, and no others can get to heaven, and religion "b" says THEY are the one true religion and the only true way to heaven, how is someone who wants to revere and worship God supposed to figure that out?

It's myopic in the extreme to say, as had been said here. "THIS is the one true religion, no others are Christians, and therefore cannot get to heaven."

Because many religions say that. What sets yours apart other than you choose to believe one over all others, and don't forget, when you say it's the one true religion, many religions say the same thing.
Religion is an issue, God doesn't want a relationship with religion, he has opened the door for us to know him intimately, become a disciple and disciple others. How many of us are actually doing this? How many are stuck on the bottle of milk that they were handed when God found them?
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  #85  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by colossians323 View Post
You know what is even more sad? So many more killed in the name of atheism.

But to your point of same god, there is only one God.
Hindus, have hundreds of god
Muslims have the moon god

Where do you find that they all worship the same God?
Good points!
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  #86  
Old 11-10-2017, 12:27 PM
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Good points!
So many more killed in the name of atheism.

Really? Please give us that historical example. Even communism, the deadliest ideology, did not have atheism as a driving force.

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  #87  
Old 11-10-2017, 2:01 PM
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So many more killed in the name of atheism.

Really? Please give us that historical example. Even communism, the deadliest ideology, did not have atheism as a driving force.
Mao, Pol pot, Kim jong il, Stalin etc etc.
Actually one of communisms driving force is atheism. They want people to worship the atheistic government and not a God. why? God brings hope, atheists bring destruction, as proven in history, time and time again.

You don't have to agree, the facts speak for their self. It is funny to see atheists try to determine which is the right way to practice atheism. is that what you are going to teach us next? Communists don't practice atheism the right way?
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  #88  
Old 11-10-2017, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by colossians323 View Post
Mao, Pol pot, Kim jong il, Stalin etc etc.
Actually one of communisms driving force is atheism. They want people to worship the atheistic government and not a God. why? God brings hope, atheists bring destruction, as proven in history, time and time again.

You don't have to agree, the facts speak for their self. It is funny to see atheists try to determine which is the right way to practice atheism. is that what you are going to teach us next? Communists don't practice atheism the right way?
I am not teaching anything, just expressing my opinion, which is that Communist regimes don't need people to worship, only obey or die. Never heard one case of a communist murderer yelling "God is not great!". Yes, communist regimes are atheistic, but that is not what drives them, in the same way that religion drives other murderous ideologies. Communists are driven by power and subjugation.

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  #89  
Old 11-10-2017, 4:09 PM
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I am not teaching anything, just expressing my opinion, which is that Communist regimes don't need people to worship, only obey or die. Never heard one case of a communist murderer yelling "God is not great!". Yes, communist regimes are atheistic, but that is not what drives them, in the same way that religion drives other murderous ideologies. Communists are driven by power and subjugation.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...litics_and_law
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  #90  
Old 11-10-2017, 4:24 PM
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Thank you, but I already knew there are and have been many atheists in public and private life. Not in dispute. Some of those have committed heinous acts, just as many religious zealots have. The difference, IMO, is that the zealots are DRIVEN to violence by their piety, but for atheists the absence of religion is just that, something missing. Like not having a third arm, doesn't really cause much discomfort.

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  #91  
Old 11-10-2017, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by colossians323 View Post
You know what is even more sad? So many more killed in the name of atheism.

But to your point of same god, there is only one God.
Hindus, have hundreds of god
moslems have the moon god

Where do you find that they all worship the same God?
I found it in my head.
Call it Common Sense, Intuition, or logical deduction.

Like I said earlier:

"My opinion on that is there is only one God and He has different names in the different belief systems (Christian, Jews, Muslim, Hindu, etc.).
If we for a moment call God the "Creator", which He is, then it makes sense to me that those belief systems recognize that there is a Creator and use a different name for Him than the others.
In Essence they are praying/worshipping the same God.
The Hindus, for example, have different names for the different aspects of God. For Christians, those aspects are Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Yes, only one God (Creator).

From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet:
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..."
Meaning:
What matters is what something is, not what it is called.
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  #92  
Old 11-10-2017, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
I found it in my head.
Call it Common Sense, Intuition, or logical deduction.

Like I said earlier:

"My opinion on that is there is only one God and He has different names in the different belief systems (Christian, Jews, Muslim, Hindu, etc.).
If we for a moment call God the "Creator", which He is, then it makes sense to me that those belief systems recognize that there is a Creator and use a different name for Him than the others.
In Essence they are praying/worshipping the same God.
The Hindus, for example, have different names for the different aspects of God. For Christians, those aspects are Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Yes, only one God (Creator).

From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet:
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..."
Meaning:
What matters is what something is, not what it is called.
I agree that there is only on God, but Christians are unique in that they are the only group that acknowledge Jesus as God. Here is an interesting article on the topic (one of many) written by an evangelical christian also a former muslim.

http://rzim.org/global-blog/do-musli...-the-same-god/

Much of what he says would also be applicable to Jews since they also reject Jesus as God.

From the article: Christians worship a Triune God: a Father who loves unconditionally, an incarnate Son who is willing to die for us so that we may be forgiven, and an immanent Holy Spirit who lives in us. This is not what the Muslim God is; it is not who the Muslim God is; and it is not what the Muslim God does. Truly, the Trinity is antithetical to Tawhid, fundamentally incompatible and only similar superficially and semantically. Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.

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  #93  
Old 11-10-2017, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
The issue for me, which I raised but nobody addressed, is that if religion "a" says they are the true religion and the one true way to heaven, and no others can get to heaven, and religion "b" says THEY are the one true religion and the only true way to heaven, how is someone who wants to revere and worship God supposed to figure that out?

It's myopic in the extreme to say, as had been said here. "THIS is the one true religion, no others are Christians, and therefore cannot get to heaven."

Because many religions say that. What sets yours apart other than you choose to believe one over all others, and don't forget, when you say it's the one true religion, many religions say the same thing.
The answer to your question lies in your ability to seek God and find the answer yourself. There is the God of the Bible, and He reveals Himself, His character and His plan of salvation in the Bible. The best source of finding the answer to your question is in the Bible, instead of a religion, church or man.

The other gods (note the lower case g) that have been written about throughout this thread, do not have the same characteristics as the God of the Bible. Matthew 7:21-23 states; “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”

The above verse is a very clear warning issued by Jesus, and it should cause concern in everyone, that they know the true and living God. Jesus has placed the responsibility upon us, to know Him. Those who create gods to satisfy their wants, desires and needs will most likely hear the Matthew 7:21-23 verses again on their day of judgment. The above verse also indicates that sincerely praying and believing in a god that is different than the one revealed in the Bible, is a fatal mistake.
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  #94  
Old 11-10-2017, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
The issue for me, which I raised but nobody addressed, is that if religion "a" says they are the true religion and the one true way to heaven, and no others can get to heaven, and religion "b" says THEY are the one true religion and the only true way to heaven, how is someone who wants to revere and worship God supposed to figure that out?

It's myopic in the extreme to say, as had been said here. "THIS is the one true religion, no others are Christians, and therefore cannot get to heaven."

Because many religions say that. What sets yours apart other than you choose to believe one over all others, and don't forget, when you say it's the one true religion, many religions say the same thing.
Well, every religion, and every individual person has a story and a reason for believing what they believe over all the rest.

As for Catholics, and as for myself, I can only speak as a catechumen, humble, small in faith but growing. Everyone should fact check everything I say before but the teaching relayed to me and believed by me to the best of my ability to interpret and express it is that the sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, Confession and Communion are all required because of what is said in scripture, and how it was interpreted by the apostles, and how it was interpreted over time (I would be willing to explain in more detail in subsequent posts but this is the short of it). There are five precepts of the Church that act as a sort of "road map to Heaven" and I and they believe these precepts, which include scriptural and traditional basis, are justifiable as doctrine by way of Christ, who is God, who is truth, choosing his 12 apostles, and of telling chiefly among them St. Peter that what he bound on earth would also be bound in Heaven. This I, and they would believe to essentially be the founding of THE Church, Christ's only Church on earth. They call this apostolic succession and see the Roman Catholic Church as heirs to the apostles, including in authority. St. Peter would go on to found the churches in Antioch and in Rome, where he died, as, nominally, our first pope.

They do have a pretty rigid list of things you must do to be saved. However even what the Church teaches about salvation is probably more correctly stated in the sense of guaranteed salvation. A person who dies in a state of grace is guaranteed Christ's salvation. But not everyone who falls short of this will be damned to hell. People who die with unconfessed venial sins or who have lapsed in their practice of the faith to some degree can be saved, but must be purified first, which can happen after death (Purgatory). Past this, still others may be saved, even mortal sinners, in that the Church teaches that while God has bound us to his sacraments, God himself cannot be bound by his sacraments. He would not be omnipotent if he were. So they teach that what they have to offer is your guaranteed ticket to ride, and that other pursuits are bets of varying odds which can't be assessed because we do not know God's mind, and his ways are not always ours. We only know what he told to us through his apostles, both in sacred scripture and what was verbally and traditionally passed down through them and through the Church.

Every religion, or at least a lot of them it would seem, make very serious claims that they are the only ones who have it right, and sure, ultimately it's up to a person to decide for themselves. But I think the authority the Catholic Church claims comes from a much more compelling argument than any other religion presents, which is why I chose to convert. I grew up Pentecostal, then I rejected God for a very long time, partially because what was taught to me did not make sense, and scandalized me, and also because of my own ignorance, pride, and hardness of heart. While it might not be a compelling argument to others, the fact that I found an actual love for God in this theology and set of beliefs is the most convincing part of it. I wish it could be of more than mere personal value. But I was completely devoid of all faith, and then the daily praying of the rosary changed everything.

Coming from the background of atheism I've had a lot of time to think about being wrong, because for all of that time I believed what I believe now to be wrong. I can only say now having experienced what I believe to be true religion, that if I am wrong then... Well, I think Dostoevsky said it best: "if someone were to prove to me that Christ was outside the truth, and it was really the case that the truth lay outside Christ, then I should choose to stay with Christ rather than with the truth." The reason being that I know the value of belief by the fruits borne by said belief. So, the fact that if this were all fiction, it would be so great a fiction as to compel even me, is a kind of proof to me personally that it is no fiction at all. I hope that makes sense and is not a scandal to other people.

Again, I get that my personal experience means diddly in the outside marketplace of ideas, and what can or can't be called absolute truth. But, I know from being on both sides of the arguments of religious belief, that at the end of the day what one chooses to believe simply is. I can at least say that everyone claiming to know the one and only truth does not mean there is NO one and only truth, and that reason and faith united can lead us to the truth. I believe in truth and I believe I have the truth, or the closest thing to it. In all of these discussions, sincere personal conviction is really at the core of anything anyone can offer.
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Old 11-10-2017, 8:57 PM
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I am not teaching anything, just expressing my opinion, which is that Communist regimes don't need people to worship, only obey or die. Never heard one case of a communist murderer yelling "God is not great!".
That is because they don't believe in a god. they are godless and this is why the atheistic regimes are nasty and most ruthless, that is not to say that moslems are not doing their best to catch up to atheists, but they have a way to go;
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Yes, communist regimes are atheistic, but that is not what drives them, in the same way that religion drives other murderous ideologies. Communists are driven by power and subjugation.
When your morals are subjective to how you feel, atheism is most certainly what drives them.

I know, communists didn't practice atheism correctly.

FACT atheists own the most murderous regimes in all of history
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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.

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Old 11-10-2017, 11:31 PM
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Long lost apparently.
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Old 11-11-2017, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
I found it in my head.
Call it Common Sense, Intuition, or logical deduction.

Like I said earlier:

"My opinion on that is there is only one God and He has different names in the different belief systems (Christian, Jews, Muslim, Hindu, etc.).
If we for a moment call God the "Creator", which He is, then it makes sense to me that those belief systems recognize that there is a Creator and use a different name for Him than the others.
In Essence they are praying/worshipping the same God.
The Hindus, for example, have different names for the different aspects of God. For Christians, those aspects are Father, Son and Holy Spirit."


Yes, only one God (Creator).

From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet:
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..."
Meaning:
What matters is what something is, not what it is called.
Just because someone uses the name god or God for the deity they worship does not make it the same God. The religions you listed have a different view of what or who God is. It’s like saying I have two friends named Mike so they are the same person.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:41 AM
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So many more killed in the name of atheism.

Really? Please give us that historical example. Even communism, the deadliest ideology, did not have atheism as a driving force.

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The mere absence or “rejection” of God fuels (the “driving force” using your words) all evil, which includes “communism.”

There is such a huge populous of “non-believers,” “secularists,” “atheists,” or whatever you’d prefer to call them and they all share one common denominator; they are all ABSENT of the Lord. Which by the way, creates or is a “driving force” (again your preferred terminology) among many things (ideologies) such as evil “communism,” throughout the world.

There’s many other ideologies that are created, but this post is focusing solely on communism because it was brought up specifically.

Jesus said:

Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and ONLY A FEW FIND IT.
(-All CAPS emphasis mine).

Jesus basically says that there will be more people (who are absent of the Lord), that will find that “narrow” gate that leads to destruction. Unless they change their own heart’s, pro-communists (again which are fueled by atheism), will be entering through that large gate.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
I found it in my head.
Call it Common Sense, Intuition, or logical deduction.

Like I said earlier:

"My opinion on that is there is only one God and He has different names in the different belief systems (Christian, Jews, Muslim, Hindu, etc.).
If we for a moment call God the "Creator", which He is, then it makes sense to me that those belief systems recognize that there is a Creator and use a different name for Him than the others.
In Essence they are praying/worshipping the same God.
The Hindus, for example, have different names for the different aspects of God. For Christians, those aspects are Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Yes, only one God (Creator).

From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet:
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..."
Meaning:
What matters is what something is, not what it is called.
Shakespeare was a fallible play writerer and fairytale author. The Bible on the other hand is God’s Word of truth. (2 Timothy 3:16)

What you appear to believe in from what you just wrote is “Ecumenicalism.” Sure you say “one god,” but purely from a biblical perspective, you just haven’t figured out which is the right God to worship yet. Jesus is crystal clear on this issue. He is the only one true God.

John 14:6 (NIV)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12 (NIV-1984)
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

For Christians, All other “gods” from ALL other religions are just counterfeits.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14 (NIV)
13-For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14-And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
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Old 11-11-2017, 1:19 PM
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Bill,

Your hate is outdated. So is your theology.
Actually his theology is spot on. Study the Bible and study the RCC and you will see the difference. BTW, the truth is hate to those who hate the truth.
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  #101  
Old 11-11-2017, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
This topic got started in the Sola Scriptura thread so I felt it needed to have it's own thread.

It was stated that Catholics are not Christians.
I disagreed and stated that:
"Those that believe in Jesus and try to live their lives by Jesus' teachings are Christians. That about as simple as it gets."

It was also stated that Catholics would not be going to heaven.


Your thoughts/input?
As a Catholic that's hilarious of course Catholics are Christians the original Christians really LMAO

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  #102  
Old 11-11-2017, 4:50 PM
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Shakespeare was a fallible play writerer and fairytale author. The Bible on the other hand is God’s Word of truth. (2 Timothy 3:16)

What you appear to believe in from what you just wrote is “Ecumenicalism.” Sure you say “one god,” but purely from a biblical perspective, you just haven’t figured out which is the right God to worship yet. Jesus is crystal clear on this issue. He is the only one true God.

For Christians, All other “gods” from ALL other religions are just counterfeits.
I used Shakespeare's quote to illustrate my opinion that other religions recognize that their is a Higher Power behind the scenes (a Creator).
Call Him whatever you want to, He is still the one God (Creator).
So, if religion "A' calls Him Joe and religion "B" calls Him Sally, it is the same God they are praying to.

“Ecumenicalism.”....interesting word. I had to look it up.

ecumenicalism - (Christianity) the doctrine of the ecumenical movement that promotes cooperation and better understanding among different religious denominations: aimed at universal Christian unity.

But no, I am not professing that. It seems to focus on getting a mutual understanding among Christians.
I am simply stating what I said above. Same one God (Creator).

To your comment about me still trying to figure out which is the right God to worship, I can only assume that you are not understanding what I have been writing. There is only one God. No need to figure anything out in that department.

Now, beyond the God issue, different religions and belief systems start "organizing" themselves and start adding rules, ceremonies, formalities, etc., that differentiate themselves from one another.
They are still worshipping God (The Creator), but in their own way.

Christians like to quote the passage in the Bible stating that you can't get to the Father without going through Jesus.
In my view, that is an arrogant statement that if you are not a Christian you are going to hell.
I respect their view but do not agree.
I think that passage has been lost in translation along the way.

That is how I see it anyway.
Just my humble opinion.
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  #103  
Old 11-11-2017, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
Christians like to quote the passage in the Bible stating that you can't get to the Father without going through Jesus.
In my view, that is an arrogant statement that if you are not a Christian you are going to hell.
I respect their view but do not agree.
I think that passage has been lost in translation along the way.
It appears that if you are Catholic you have answered your original post question/statement.

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  #104  
Old 11-11-2017, 5:23 PM
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Read Deuteronomy Chapter 6
Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
10 And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,
11 And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;
12 Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
17 Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.
18 And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the LORD: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,
19 To cast out all thine enemies from before thee, as the LORD hath spoken.
20 And when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What mean the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our God hath commanded you?
21 Then thou shalt say unto thy son, We were Pharaoh's bondmen in Egypt; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand:
22 And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes:
23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.
24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

In Christianity
See also: Christian views on the Old Covenant
The Shema is one of the Old Testament sentences quoted in the New Testament. The Gospel of Mark 12:29-31 mentions that Jesus of Nazareth considered the opening exhortation of the Shema to be the first of his two greatest commandments and linked with a second (based on Leviticus 19:18b): "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." In Luke 10:25-27 the Shema is also linked with Leviticus 19:18, only by the questioner, before Jesus' agreement. The verses Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18b both begin with ve'ahavta, "and you shall love." In Luke's Gospel it appears that this connection between the two verses was already part of cultural discussion or practice.

Theologians Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch noted that "the heart is mentioned first (in Deuteronomy 6:5), as the seat of the emotions generally and of love in particular; then follows the soul (nephesh) as the centre of personality in man, to depict the love as pervading the entire self-consciousness; and to this is added, "with all the strength," i.e. of body and soul".

The Shema has also been incorporated in Christian liturgy, and is discussed in terms of the Trinity. The Anglican Book of Common Prayer in use in Canada since 1962, has included the Shema in its Summary of the Law. Since 2012, when the Anglican Use version of the BCP was adapted for use in Canada, it has been recited by Roman Catholics as well.

The Orthodox Church of the Culdees utilize the Shema in the Daily Services.

In Islam
The words used in the Shema prayer are similar to the words of Sura 112 (Al-Tawhid or Monotheism) in Quran. The words "أَحَدٌ" in Arabic is identical to the word "אֶחָד" in Hebrew.

Arabic: قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ‎‎ - Qul Huwa 'Llāhu ʾAḥad ("Say, He is Allah the One"
)

Hebrew: :שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יהוה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יהוה אֶחָד‎ - Sh'ma Yisra'el YHVH Eloheinu YHVH Eḥad
It is the Central Tenant of the Jewish Religion.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.
And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
And these words that I command you today shall be in your heart.
And you shall teach them diligently to your children, and you shall speak of them
when you sit at home, and when you walk along the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.
And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.


ISLAM, JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, CATHOLICISM
ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME SINGULAR GOD/CREATOR

Last edited by DolphinFan; 11-11-2017 at 6:35 PM..
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  #105  
Old 11-11-2017, 10:10 PM
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It appears that if you are Catholic you have answered your original post question/statement.

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But that's not what Catholics teach. Catholics teach exactly what the Bible teaches about salvation. Catholics teach salvation is through Christ.

CCC 389: "...that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ."

CCC 457: "The Word became flesh for us in order to save us by reconciling us with God, who 'loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins': 'the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world', and 'he was revealed to take away sins,'"

CCC 594: "Jesus performed acts, such as pardoning sins, that manifested him to be the Savior God himself (cf. Jn 5:16-18)."

CCC 2812: "Finally, in Jesus the name of the Holy God is revealed and given to us, in the flesh, as Savior, revealed by what he is, by his word, and by his sacrifice. This is the heart of his priestly prayer: 'Holy Father . . . for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.' Because he 'sanctifies' his own name, Jesus reveals to us the name of the Father. At the end of Christ's Passover, the Father gives him the name that is above all names: 'Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'"

The Church does teach that it is at least theoretically possible in the theological sense, that some might be saved without following its teachings and receiving its sacraments. But this is unknown to the Church; all that the Church knows is what Christ taught. And even in such a case the salvation is still through the Lord Jesus Christ who is the one who gets to make that decision.

CCC 1257: "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are 'reborn of water and the Spirit.' God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments."
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  #106  
Old 11-11-2017, 10:12 PM
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ISLAM, JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, CATHOLICISM
ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME SINGULAR GOD/CREATOR
Wrong, robbing writings from the torah does not make islam believe in the same God. Islams god is the moon god plain and simple. Please research islam deeper and you will see
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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #107  
Old 11-11-2017, 10:45 PM
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Wrong, robbing writings from the torah does not make islam believe in the same God. Islams god is the moon god plain and simple. Please research islam and you will see
I gave you examples from the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran ALL speaking of the same God/Lord from the same writings, same prayer.

And NO you are absolutely wrong about the moon god. Many countries use this in their flags. There is no specific "Symbol of Islam" like Christians have the Cross. In some countries, one star inside the crescent moon is used as a symbol, but this was created by the Ottoman Empire and later adopted by Islam as a whole.
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  #108  
Old 11-11-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
I gave you examples from the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran ALL speaking of the same God/Lord from the same writings, same prayer.

And NO you are absolutely wrong about the moon god. Many countries use this in their flags. There is no specific "Symbol of Islam" like Christians have the Cross. In some countries, one star inside the crescent moon is used as a symbol, but this was created by the Ottoman Empire and later adopted by Islam as a whole.
Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Jesus is the God of the New Testament. Neither Jews nor Muslims worship Him. Therefore, they do not all worship the same God.
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  #109  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:20 AM
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Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Jesus is the God of the New Testament. Neither Jews nor Muslims worship Him. Therefore, they do not all worship the same God.
Jesus is not God/Lord/Creator

Learn your Religion origin and history.

The Abrahamic religions, also referred to collectively as Abrahamism, are a group of Semitic-originated religious communities of faith that claim descent from the practices of the ancient Israelites and the worship of the God of Abraham. The term derives from a figure from the Bible known as Abraham. Abrahamic religion was able to spread globally through Christianity being adopted by the Roman Empire in the 4th century and the Islamic Empire from the 7th century onward. As a consequence, today the Abrahamic religions are one of the major divisions in comparative religion (along with Indian, Iranian, and East Asian religions) Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the largest Abrahamic religions in terms of numbers of adherents.

The major Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are Judaism in the 7th century BCE, Christianity in the 1st century CE, and Islam in the 7th century CE.
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  #110  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:27 AM
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Jesus is not God/Lord/Creator

Learn your Religion origin and history.

The Abrahamic religions, also referred to collectively as Abrahamism, are a group of Semitic-originated religious communities of faith that claim descent from the practices of the ancient Israelites and the worship of the God of Abraham. The term derives from a figure from the Bible known as Abraham. Abrahamic religion was able to spread globally through Christianity being adopted by the Roman Empire in the 4th century and the Islamic Empire from the 7th century onward. As a consequence, today the Abrahamic religions are one of the major divisions in comparative religion (along with Indian, Iranian, and East Asian religions) Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the largest Abrahamic religions in terms of numbers of adherents.

The major Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are Judaism in the 7th century BCE, Christianity in the 1st century CE, and Islam in the 7th century CE.
Yes. Once again, Jesus is the Lord God Almighty who makes all things and binds all things together. He is the God that spoke to Abraham. He is the God at the burning bush. He is the God in Genesis 1 and John 1. Read a Bible or at least study some Christianity before writing.
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  #111  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:56 AM
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Yes. Once again, Jesus is the Lord God Almighty who makes all things and binds all things together. He is the God that spoke to Abraham. He is the God at the burning bush. He is the God in Genesis 1 and John 1. Read a Bible or at least study some Christianity before writing.
Impossible. GOD/LORD/Creator wasn't birthed by Mary and Fathered by Joseph.

Read Genesis. GOD/LORD/Creator/ALLAH/YAWEH CREATED EVERYTHING. Before him there was NOTHING. HIS first HUMAN creation was Adam, Then Eve.
Jesus was born more than 3 thousand years later to Mary and Joseph.
The bible even details the lineage of Adam And Eve down through Noah, to Abraham.

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:5 - Genesis 2:25)
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Old 11-12-2017, 1:06 AM
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Impossible. GOD/LORD/Creator wasn't birthed by Mary and Fathered by Joseph.

Read Genesis. GOD/LORD/Creator/ALLAH/YAWEH CREATED EVERYTHING. Before him there was NOTHING. HIS first HUMAN creation was Adam, Then Eve.
Jesus was born more than 3 thousand years later to Mary and Joseph.
The bible even details the lineage of Adam And Eve down through Noah, to Abraham.

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:5 - Genesis 2:25)
Yes. Jesus is that God that created everything in Genesis including Adam and Eve. Also, He was not conceived through Joseph and Mary. He was conceived of The Holy Spirit and Mary. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, Jesus is God. The God Man. This is all very basic Christianity. This should help clear things up for you. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1105376
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  #113  
Old 11-12-2017, 5:53 AM
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At least we're consistent on this forum. World travelers we are. This thread started out in Rome and is now going through Gary, Indiana.

God bless all on yet another Sunday to worship our risen Lord!

Pastor Bill.
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  #114  
Old 11-12-2017, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Impossible. GOD/LORD/Creator wasn't birthed by Mary and Fathered by Joseph.

Read Genesis. GOD/LORD/Creator/ALLAH/YAWEH CREATED EVERYTHING. Before him there was NOTHING. HIS first HUMAN creation was Adam, Then Eve.
Jesus was born more than 3 thousand years later to Mary and Joseph.
The bible even details the lineage of Adam And Eve down through Noah, to Abraham.

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:5 - Genesis 2:25)
Look at the bold text in your quote. The Christian God is one God in three persons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
Yes. Jesus is that God that created everything in Genesis including Adam and Eve. Also, He was not conceived through Joseph and Mary. He was conceived of The Holy Spirit and Mary. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, Jesus is God. The God Man. This is all very basic Christianity. This should help clear things up for you. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1105376
This also:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
**John‬ *1:1-5‬ *NASB‬‬
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  #115  
Old 11-12-2017, 6:40 AM
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Originally Posted by FresnoRob View Post

This also:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
**John‬ *1:1-5‬ *NASB‬‬
Yes, one God represented as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

John 1:14King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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  #116  
Old 11-12-2017, 7:16 AM
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How do Catholics defend all of the Non-Biblical Mary worship and the use of so many different forms of Pagan Symbols that the RCC uses in their rituals?

Non-Biblical Mary/Goddess Worship is clearly Pagan how can the RCC be considered a "Christian" religion?


The Babylonian Mitre hat?


The Mystical Greek Pine Cone staff aka the Thyrsus of Bacchus... Why is there is no mention of a "Pine Cone" in the Bible?


Catholic/Babylonian serpent Crosier... Where in the Bible did Jesus carry a snake crosier?



Why has the RCC elevated Mary ABOVE Jesus? Is it because she is not the Mary from the Bible but "the Goddes" that has been worshiped since antiquity Inanna, Ishtar, Isis, Astarte, Mithras, Minerva etc.

Mary has even been directly referred to as "the Queen of Heaven" by the RCC itself they don't even hide their Goddes worshipping.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quee...en_(antiquity)


Mary Crowned and "Baby Jesus" with a Neptune Trident halo?


Worshipping dead and dismembered corpses how is that Biblical?
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America was founded by men who understood that the threat of domestic tyranny is as great as any threat from abroad. If we want to be worthy of their legacy, we must resist the rush toward ever-increasing state control of our society. Otherwise, our own government will become a greater threat to our freedoms than any foreign terrorist.

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Last edited by ENTHUSIAST; 11-12-2017 at 7:51 AM..
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  #117  
Old 11-12-2017, 8:45 AM
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Both churches, you claim, say they are the only way to salvation.

If you are a member of one, you hear that. If you are a member of the other, you hear that. Both cannot be right. The stakes are eternal damnation for millions.

Explain how that is not an arbitrary test from God's point of view, please.

Bible is the truth!!! That's all you need to know....If one church teaches something different than the Bible, then you know its wrong! Common sense.

Example: Jesus in the Bible says "He's the way, Salvation is only through him"... John 14:6. So if you are going to a Priest/or any other for your Salvation then your bypassing Jesus.

I'm not a religious man...
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  #118  
Old 11-12-2017, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan
ISLAM, JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, CATHOLICISM
ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME SINGULAR GOD/CREATOR
I say this with all due respect to you and this is not just my opinion here, but published facts from both Christian as well as Islamic sources. Your claim presented above is just not correct when it comes specifically to Islam and The Christian God. By your definition, your claim contradicts essential Christian doctrine. If you’d substitute the words “the same” and replace it with “a” in the above quote, then there’d be no argument. However as it stands above, it simply is incorrect from both a muslims’s and christian’s Perspective. I’ll even throw in that it’s incorrect from a person who practices Judaism.

One must first understand the Christian’s “definition” of who or what “God” is. Yes you are correct that all of the above believe in one singular “God,” however Islam openly REJECTS Jesus Christ as Deity, Lord and Savior. In Christianity however (and this is the biggie...) Jesus Christ IS GOD; Lord and Savior. Period. There’s a huge major “breaking difference” here between Islam and Christianity.

This is NOT opinion, this is published facts by Islam itself.....

Islam does NOT believe in the “same singular God” as Christianity does and as you stated above. Likewise, Christianity does NOT believe that “allah” is Lord. The allah of the Quran is undeniably a complete and utter opposite of The Lord, Jesus Christ.

To go one step further and purely to the Christian’s perspective, allah is the classic and “perverse” “counterfeit” of the Christian Lord, Jesus Christ. See what Paul wrote to the Galatians and Corinthians below...

More facts and NOT opinion.... Both Islam and Judaism teach a different gospel than Christianity. Also as with islam, Judaism REJECTS Christ as the Risen Lord. Simply read Paul’s letter to the Galatians:

Galatians 1:6-10 (NKJV)
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7-which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8-But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9-As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10-For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

More facts, not opinions.... In Christianity (which includes Catholicism,), Jesus Christ is God in human form. Jesus is The Lord. In Islam, Jesus is merely a human being who did NOT rise from the dead, wasn’t born of a Virgin, is NOT God In the flesh, nor doesn’t save sinners from eternal damnation.

Again, Islam’s version of Jesus is NOT the same as our Christian God. Using Paul’s own words, islam (or any other non Christian religion) “...perverts the gospel of Christ” and “preaches another gospel.” Islam preaches “a DIFFERENT Jesus” that is NOT taught from the Christian’s holy bible. Again, I’m just presenting you with published facts and NOT my own biased opinion here. My facts are easily verifiable no matter what one’s own beliefs may be.

Galatians 1:8 (NKJV)
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

2 Corinthians 11:4 (NKJV)
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

Clearly if you contradict essential Christian doctrine, then you've not only blurred but obliterated the line of demarcation between the Kingdom of Christ and the kingdom of the cults.
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  #119  
Old 11-12-2017, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
I gave you examples from the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran ALL speaking of the same God/Lord from the same writings, same prayer.

And NO you are absolutely wrong about the moon god. Many countries use this in their flags. There is no specific "Symbol of Islam" like Christians have the Cross. In some countries, one star inside the crescent moon is used as a symbol, but this was created by the Ottoman Empire and later adopted by Islam as a whole.
You obviously have an internet connection. You don't seem lazy, why not do a little research?

Let me help

irrefutable pagan moon god evidence link

Quote:
The Archaeology of the Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.


Both archaeology and history show that you need to study. It is okay to think you know about islam, but you really need to immerse yourself a little more in the subject if you would like to speak from authority.

Islam's only similarities with the Living God of the universe, are the texts that they copied from the torah and a few from the new testament, that they changed to fit their beliefs. They follow the legalistic teachings of the pharisees, whom Jesus continually condemned. The moon god is not the living god. Please read the link with plenty of foot notes and archaeological evidence, and let me know your thoughts
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  #120  
Old 11-12-2017, 9:23 AM
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Originally Posted by colossians323 View Post
You obviously have an internet connection. You don't seem lazy, why not do a little research?

Let me help

irrefutable pagan moon god evidence link



Both archaeology and history show that you need to study. It is okay to think you know about islam, but you really need to immerse yourself a little more in the subject if you would like to speak from authority.

Islam's only similarities with the Living God of the universe, are the texts that they copied from the torah and a few from the new testament, that they changed to fit their beliefs. They follow the legalistic teachings of the pharisees, whom Jesus continually condemned. The moon god is not the living god. Please read the link with plenty of foot notes and archaeological evidence, and let me know your thoughts
Islam and Judaism believe in the SAME GOD.
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