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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #201  
Old 11-10-2017, 7:43 AM
BeanFromSanDiego BeanFromSanDiego is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Replacing the BB with a regular button would be in violation of DOJ Regulation 5477, theoretically by itself a misdemeanor. It might also be charged as possession of an unregistered AW (if DOJ claims that a violation of 5477 voids your registration).

The safe thing to do is leave your BB on until it's done getting hashed out in court. There are 2 lawsuits in progress right now that seek to answer that question.


Hey do you happen to know the name of those law suits so that I could follow more closely?


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  #202  
Old 11-10-2017, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BeanFromSanDiego View Post
Hey do you happen to know the name of those law suits so that I could follow more closely?


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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1375494

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1327859

DOJ's Response on Villanueva (cut and paste from PDF)

Quote:
4. Removal of Magazine Release Device (Eighth Cause of Action)
Plaintiffs also challenge a regulation prohibiting any post-registration alteration to the bullet
button. '4 (Compl. M 168-175.) This regulation helps to maintain the integrity of the current
registration process, by preventing registrants from converting registered weapons into weapons
that are not eligible for registration. The release mechanism for a weapon’s ammunition feeding
deviceiicw the bullet buttoniis an essential feature for registration purposes. Only weapons
with a particular kind of release mechanism may be registered at this time. An alteration to this
feature creates a registered weapon that is ineligible for registration.
Removal of the bullet-button also converts the weapon into an assault weapon that,
according to its features, should have been registered by January 1, 2001.15 (Pen. Code, § 30900,
subd. (a)(2).) This would expand the number of weapons in a category of assault weapons
previously closed to registration. The regulation will thus help prevent the new registration
process from being used to circumvent longstanding restrictions on the sale and possession of
weapons that have previously been classified as assault weapons.
Plaintiffs claim that the regulation is not related to registration because it regulates conduct
that occurs after registration. Plaintiffs also object that the regulation conflicts with the assault
weapons law because “nothing in the [assault weapons law] precludes individuals from
modifying a properly registered ‘assault weapon’ so long as the modification does not trigger
another prohibition unrelated to the [assault weapons law].” (Compl. 1] 174.) But the regulation
does not prohibit all post-registration modifications; rather, it prohibits modification of the
specific feature of the weapon that qualifies it for this particular registration process. Such a
modification is akin to the manufacture of a prohibited weapon, and nothing in the assault
weapons law allows the registration process to be used for manufacturing prohibited weapons.
These regulations safeguard the registration process and thus fall within DOJ’S APAexempt
rulemaking authority, and are reasonably necessary to effectuate the registration
requirement as well. The Court should defer to DOJ’S judgment on what is necessary to prevent
abuse of the registration process. (Maxwell-Jolly, supra, 199 Ca1.App.4th at pp. 315.)

(‘4 Section 5477, subdivision (a) provides, “The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding device on an assault
weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(l), shall not be changed after the assault
weapon is registered. A weapon’s eligibility for registration pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision
(b)( 1) depends, in part, on its release mechanism. Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault
weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered.”
‘5 Removal of the bullet button would transform the weapon into a true quick—release weapon, with “the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine,” as previously defined under the assault weapons law. If the weapon still has one of
the additional qualifying features, it would fall into the category of assault weapons originally subject to restrictions
on sale and possession as of January 1, 2000, which were required to have been registered by January 1, 2001. (See
former Penal Code §§ 12276.1 (2000) [introduction of feature—based definitions of assault weapon, effective January
1, 2000], 12285, subd‘ (a) (2000) [requiring registration ofassault weapons as defined under former section 12276.1
within one year],)
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Last edited by Dump1567; 11-11-2017 at 7:18 AM..
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  #203  
Old 11-10-2017, 8:46 AM
BeanFromSanDiego BeanFromSanDiego is offline
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Thank you!


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  #204  
Old 11-13-2017, 2:06 PM
montrose818 montrose818 is offline
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...

Last edited by montrose818; 11-13-2017 at 2:16 PM..
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  #205  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:56 PM
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Total bull **** reasoning, right out of their cover "letter" they published with the 2nd round of regs. It's so absurd as to be literally comical. Circular reasoning is an understatement, more like merry-go round reasoning.

"Removal of the bullet button would transform the weapon into a true quick—release weapon"

Ah yes, a "a true quick release weapon". Did Feinstein write that? What in God's green earth is a a quick release weapon? Is that what goes with the thing that goes up?

No where in the language of the law does any of this BS exist, and they will have to defend it at some point and it's going to backfire, as long as we don't get an activist political judge. Which we will, for sure.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #206  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:13 PM
SDmtnbkr SDmtnbkr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Total bull **** reasoning, right out of their cover "letter" they published with the 2nd round of regs. It's so absurd as to be literally comical. Circular reasoning is an understatement, more like merry-go round reasoning.

"Removal of the bullet button would transform the weapon into a true quick—release weapon"

Ah yes, a "a true quick release weapon". Did Feinstein write that? What in God's green earth is a a quick release weapon? Is that what goes with the thing that goes up?

No where in the language of the law does any of this BS exist, and they will have to defend it at some point and it's going to backfire, as long as we don't get an activist political judge. Which we will, for sure.
....which is exactly why I am going to register half my AR's, because if it does get overturned, I won't have to deal with all the other stupid contraptions.
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  #207  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
as long as we don't get an activist political judge. Which we will, for sure.
Well based on the reviews I read on-line of the Judge, it really comes down to his overworked legal research Atty and their opinion of guns.
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  #208  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Total bull **** reasoning, right out of their cover "letter" they published with the 2nd round of regs. It's so absurd as to be literally comical. Circular reasoning is an understatement, more like merry-go round reasoning.

"Removal of the bullet button would transform the weapon into a true quick—release weapon"

Ah yes, a "a true quick release weapon". Did Feinstein write that? What in God's green earth is a a quick release weapon? Is that what goes with the thing that goes up?

No where in the language of the law does any of this BS exist, and they will have to defend it at some point and it's going to backfire, as long as we don't get an activist political judge. Which we will, for sure.
this is California after all. What else would you expect?
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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  #209  
Old 11-13-2017, 9:20 PM
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Before it was all

Quote:
"State lawmakers passed legislation outlawing rifles equipped with “bullet buttons” that allow for fast reloading."
Now it's

Quote:
"Removal of the bullet button would transform the weapon into a true quick—release weapon"
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  #210  
Old 11-13-2017, 9:24 PM
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Quick release chainsaw bayonet?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #211  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:39 PM
AEtrane AEtrane is offline
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So a "true quick release" magazine as opposed to a "not very quick, but still too quick for my tastes release" magazine?

The one that's exactly like the other and just as evil and deadly, but also not at all like the other and unique to the point of defining what the weapon is?

The feature that makes your registered assault weapon "super double assaulty" and somehow unregistered?

The legislation made a bullet button LEGALLY THE SAME as a standard mag release. No amount of circular, blundering regulatory babble can change that law.
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  #212  
Old 11-14-2017, 6:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEtrane View Post

The legislation made a bullet button LEGALLY THE SAME as a standard mag release. No amount of circular, blundering regulatory babble can change that law.
Until a state or federal judge says otherwise, the DOJ did exactly that.
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  #213  
Old 11-14-2017, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEtrane View Post
So a "true quick release" magazine as opposed to a "not very quick, but still too quick for my tastes release" magazine?

The one that's exactly like the other and just as evil and deadly, but also not at all like the other and unique to the point of defining what the weapon is?

The feature that makes your registered assault weapon "super double assaulty" and somehow unregistered?

The legislation made a bullet button LEGALLY THE SAME as a standard mag release. No amount of circular, blundering regulatory babble can change that law.
Was at a local gun shop and met a cop picking up a pistol there. 16 year vet and a gun guy, he said there was no way LEO could know or tell or even have any training to explain the BB madness. Said he would be taking off the BB as soon as he gets his reg.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #214  
Old 11-14-2017, 9:11 PM
SDmtnbkr SDmtnbkr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Was at a local gun shop and met a cop picking up a pistol there. 16 year vet and a gun guy, he said there was no way LEO could know or tell or even have any training to explain the BB madness. Said he would be taking off the BB as soon as he gets his reg.
There has never been any disputing this. I don't think anyone thinks a cop would see your rifle and say..... "blah blah blah". The only time it will be an issue is when you use your rifle in an actual self defense situation and they take it from you for evidence. Or for any other situation where they would need to confiscate it.

....and god help you if you have a "true quick release weapon"!
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