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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 10-07-2017, 5:21 AM
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The NRA's first priority is (much like a politician) it's own continued existence. Troop welfare is paramount; mission accomplishment, secondary.
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  #42  
Old 10-07-2017, 5:28 AM
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My theory is, if after every incident like what happened in Vegas, the left are calling for lynching of the NRA, I would say they are doing a pretty good job. How many times have we heard liberals say, “If it wasn’t for the NRA, something could be done”
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  #43  
Old 10-07-2017, 5:38 AM
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Has any one ever wondered that on any given holiday several hundred people die in traffic wrecks yet the mainstream media doesn't devote all its attention to the deaths? The movie and media tards do not as well? How many people against the bump stock actually knew it it existed before this killing spree. Good thing it wasn't a van then would the media and criminal politicians want to ban the van?
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  #44  
Old 10-07-2017, 7:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead714 View Post
The NRA's first priority is (much like a politician) it's own continued existence. Troop welfare is paramount; mission accomplishment, secondary.
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Originally Posted by ShaneB View Post
My theory is, if after every incident like what happened in Vegas, the left are calling for lynching of the NRA, I would say they are doing a pretty good job. How many times have we heard liberals say, “If it wasn’t for the NRA, something could be done”
I personally think this move addresses both troop morale and mission accomplishment simultaneously, if one takes the time to actually read the statements and not run off on tangents from incorrect sound bites. First, it pushes the issue to the ATF, points out this specific item was ALREADY reviewed, twice, so all but the most vehement anti gun entities can't blame the NRA for its ability of be sold anywhere to anyone. The government approved it for sale to the general public. The same government entity that confiscated airsoft guns because they could be too easily converted to actual firearms.

Second, and most importantly, it takes the knees out of the argument that the NRA is 'stonewalling'. We can legitimately say the NRA is requesting existing laws be adhered to. Isnt that what the antis want? Adherence to laws? If the bump stocks are reviewed in context, they don't break away from the definition of "one round per trigger actuation" that pushes a firearm into or out of the NFA guidelines, so they rightfully should be, once again, shown as perfectly legal to be sold to the general public.

At that point, what do the antis do? They can't blame the NRA and have that be seen as a cogent argument. They HAVE to blame the government. When the .gov says 3 times "it's legal", they'll be railing against the ATF, not the NRA. At least not for this specific item. If the ATF reviews it and says its an NFA item, it will be subject to the same rules as a suppressor. Also, not illegal. With a tax stamp I can buy one right now from the hardware store a few miles from my house. Plus, they can do that anytime they want anyway. Meanwhile, the NRA gets to say "We called for this to be reviewed", And the antis lose a talking point. One of thier biggest, in fact.

California already banned the bump fire from what I understand, so it's a moot point there. Any state can ban it at any time, so that's not an issue. I have serious doubts there is enough pull to have it added to the NFA, so that's not an issue, either.

Yes, the NRA leadership has a hard job, and they have have to fight against our worst enemies while simultaneously fighting our supposed allies. I personally think they knocked this one right out of the park and they're circling the bases as we speak.
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  #45  
Old 10-07-2017, 9:38 AM
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And I just made a large donation to Gun Owners of America on behalf of myself and those gun owners who do get it.

The NRA is choosing a path of appeasement in the hopes of deflecting further legislation and garnering a deal on national reciprocity. But as always, this approach is a weak willed mistake which will backfire and result in just the opposite. Ryan announced yesterday, following this NRA statement, that HR 38 is tabled indefinitely. So there goes that. Pelosi stated that this NRA call for a review of bump stocks will hopefully open the door for consideration of additional restrictions on 'assault rifles'. It likely will. Snapping to the perceived implied concession made by the NRA that single events can and ought to drive policy and that there exist firearms and accessories in 'common use' that are possibly too dangerous for us 'writtle' citizens to own and that the ATF needs to take a second look and get back to us.

What the NRA should have done is state that no gun law could have stopped this, that even the Obama Regimes ATF signed off on these bump stocks, and that the ONLY thing we are calling for in the face of this latest tragedy is the immediate passage of National Reciprocity, the Supressor bill and working towards the elimination of the delusion of gun free zones. This along with decades of Federal and State gun control laws which stand in clear violation of the 2A and that have done nothing to stop criminals or madmen and have only served to punished lawful gun owners and support the tyrannical goals of the politicians who write and support them.

I'm angry. Justifiably angry at the NRA. I'm not calling for massive membership resignations but they need to be sent a strong message by existing members that this is a totally wrong and incompatible approach to all that the NRA ought to be and to stand for.
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  #46  
Old 10-07-2017, 9:52 AM
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If I am going to hell can someone please bring me icewater.
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  #47  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:11 AM
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I'm angry. Justifiably angry at the NRA. I'm not calling for massive membership resignations but they need to be sent a strong message by existing members that this is a totally wrong and incompatible approach to all that the NRA ought to be and to stand for.
Are you willing to publicly declare you were wrong if there is no new legislation to address bump stocks? What if we get national reciprocity?

I don't mind people not understanding the nuances of the battle, but I do ask that we use measurable metric to evaluate results.
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  #48  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:20 AM
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The NRA is choosing a path of appeasement in the hopes of deflecting further legislation and garnering a deal on national reciprocity.
The NRA didn't have to say anything - BATFE already has the statutory authority to create regulation that is consistent with the current law. Merely pointing it out has nothing to do with "appeasement."

Even if it turns out that we end up with "bump stocks become NFA items in exchange for national reciprocity" via legislation, that's not an "appeasement," that's negotiation and a brilliant one if we can pull it off - without some Democrats the reciprocity will NOT pass. This means we have to give something. And no, this is not what we have in CA, where "compromise" means we give up now in exchange for not losing more. This would be about having it all on the same bill. We actually get ten times more than we lose.

Not to mention that listing bump stocks as NFA items would just add $200 to the cost. It can also be changed at a later time.
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  #49  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:26 AM
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This thread seems to be another example of those arguing whether chess or checkers is what we are playing.... but what if the reality is that we are playing with a flock of pigeon's who are just going to upend the board and strut around sh..ing on us anyway...

Whats the best strategy for that?
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:32 AM
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This thread seems to be another example of those arguing whether chess or checkers is what we are playing.... but what if the reality is that we are playing with a flock of pigeon's who are just going to upend the board and strut around sh..ing on us anyway...

Whats the best strategy for that?
Staying focussed on the fight at hand and avoiding hyperbolic defeatism.
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  #51  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:41 AM
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You people are absolutely ridiculous.

Just like regressive leftists when Pelosi says she wants all guns banned, you ignore what your own people say.

I posted the quote at the beginning of this discussion. The NRA believes that guns which fire rapidly should be subject to additional regulations. Their exact quote has already been posted.

This is supporting new, anti-gun legislation, before it has been written. It is supporting our current machine gun ban. It is supporting the logic of the "assault weapons ban" which has been the cornerstone of rights removal throughout the nearly three decades I've been alive,

The Hughes amendment was supposed to be repealed, and we were supposed to get our rights back. Instead, the NFA just supported the enemy, while doing literally nothing to help me,

Calgunners are a bunch of old fudds. You idiots are why we don't have basic human rights respected. Screw you all.
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2017, 11:17 AM
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Calgunners are a bunch of old fudds. You idiots are why we don't have basic human rights respected. Screw you all.
I thought we idiots were the reason mass shootings happened. Oh wait, that's the hysterical argument of the *other* side. BTW, they also usually end with "screw you all."

There is no point in arguing this issue, so I'll just say "wait and see." We can put some money on our predicted outcomes if you wish...
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2017, 11:19 AM
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You people are absolutely ridiculous.

Just like regressive leftists when Pelosi says she wants all guns banned, you ignore what your own people say.

I posted the quote at the beginning of this discussion. The NRA believes that guns which fire rapidly should be subject to additional regulations. Their exact quote has already beennposted.

This is supporting new, anti-gun legislation, before it has been written. It is supporting our current machine gun ban. It is supporting the logic of the "assault weapons ban" which has been the cornerstone of rights removal throughout the nearly three decades I've been alive,

The Hughes amendment was supposed to be repealed, and we were supposed to get our rights back. Instead, the NFA just supported the enemy, while doing literally nothing to help me,

Calgunners are a bunch of old fudds. You idiots are why we don't have basic human rights respected. Screw you all.
Not our fault your losing the debate, indicated by your hurling insults instead
of responding to the excellent rebuttals presented in this thread.

Yelling Insults instead of debating is Exactly what the Regressive Left does
when they start losing an argument.

So, What Pro 2nd Amendment organizations do you belong to again ?


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  #54  
Old 10-07-2017, 11:23 AM
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Original post is FUD - but if the libs read it and think the NRA may be against some guns maybe they'll join.
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2017, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by phrogg111 View Post
You people are absolutely ridiculous.

Just like regressive leftists when Pelosi says she wants all guns banned, you ignore what your own people say.

I posted the quote at the beginning of this discussion. The NRA believes that guns which fire rapidly should be subject to additional regulations. Their exact quote has already beennposted.

This is supporting new, anti-gun legislation, before it has been written. It is supporting our current machine gun ban. It is supporting the logic of the "assault weapons ban" which has been the cornerstone of rights removal throughout the nearly three decades I've been alive,

The Hughes amendment was supposed to be repealed, and we were supposed to get our rights back. Instead, the NFA just supported the enemy, while doing literally nothing to help me,

Calgunners are a bunch of old fudds. You idiots are why we don't have basic human rights respected. Screw you all.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out crybaby.
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2017, 12:45 PM
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Original post is FUD - but if the libs read it and think the NRA may be against some guns maybe they'll join.
I was thinking the same thing. Gun grabbers think the NRA is made up entirely of extremist nut jobs. If people like the OP take their vitriolic rants against the NRA far and wide, liberal reactionaries might take notice and start viewing the NRA, and gun owners in general, differently.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:58 PM
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Calgunners are a bunch of old fudds. You idiots are why we don't have basic human rights respected. Screw you all.
Nice
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Old 10-07-2017, 1:34 PM
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Are you willing to publicly declare you were wrong if there is no new legislation to address bump stocks? What if we get national reciprocity?

I don't mind people not understanding the nuances of the battle, but I do ask that we use measurable metric to evaluate results.
If BOTH of those things happen, yes. But difficult to pass national reciprocity when the House bill is tabled by RINO Ryan in response to this. Even after he was seen pushing it back for other reasons of his own prior to the Vegas attack.

And if you think there are still "nuances" to this battle, you are sadly mistaken. The lessons of Munich apply equally here to this situation.

And I expect you all to do the same when new gun control legislation is introduced and brought to the floor, at both the Federal and State levels (NV, CA, NY, CT, MD, maybe others), which targets more than just these bump stocks. And/or the NRA's statement and position on this has clearly been used by the Dems in their propaganda attacks to successfully sway some % of undecideds on the Republican side into voting for it.. maybe even to the point of passing it.

Fair enough? Agreed?
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  #59  
Old 10-07-2017, 1:40 PM
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And I expect you all to do the same when new gun control legislation is introduced and brought to the floor, at both the Federal and State levels (NV, CA, NY, CT, MD, maybe others), which targets more than just these bump stocks.
At federal level - absolutely. At state level, deep blue states can do whatever they want, except CA cannot ban bump fire stocks. They are already banned.

So, let's see how it develops.
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Old 10-07-2017, 3:51 PM
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Calgunners are a bunch of old fudds. You idiots are why we don't have basic human rights respected. Screw you all.
Well, thanks, bye.
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  #61  
Old 10-07-2017, 7:08 PM
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I'll bet no one saw that coming.
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  #62  
Old 10-07-2017, 7:36 PM
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The NRA is the enemy as much as the regressive left. They just compromised our rights. They're giving a victory to the regressive left, which will go along with nothing in return.
anyone who knows anything about the poltical,and legal and cultural fight to maintain the second amendment would never say that. How do you know they did not straw poll a sample of members, I bet they did.

My guess, indeed my certainty is you have NEVER been involved in the actual fighting to keep these rights. Or the fact that the NRA lead the reversals of the trends that called for not just assault rifle bands but total handgun bans.
Do you realize in the 1980's majorities of Americans supported total handgun bans?


How often do you visit your member of congress and Senators? How much money have you put into campaigns outside your district to help in this fight?
While bumpfire probably was a factor in maybe 5 to 10 of the deaths it was almost certainly a factor one to three hundred of the gunshot injuries.

Sure we ALL have opinions. and NRA does makes some tactical and PR mistakes. So what? It is a huge grassroots organization with lots of different opinions. Its opponents have way more money and since the entire gun control lobby is only a half a dozen guys pouring in a hundred of million bucks, they don't have to worry about five million members with different opinions.

For crying out loud, "betrayal"? come on. You can say you disagree. Fine. I might too, but people whining are probably people who never supported NRA in the first place

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  #63  
Old 10-07-2017, 9:50 PM
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My Understanding is that the ATF can change their definition/interpretation of laws at will (someone, please correct me if i'm wrong!) but can not arbitrarily create new laws and enforce them, so regardless of the NRA saying they should review them or not, the decision to classify them as a component of a machine gun could have changed the day before this happened. Assumedly, if the SlideFire stocks are reclassified as an NFA item, it would be legal to possess said item (because the logistics of trying to confiscate them would be overbearing in the very best of situations), but illegal for it to be attached to any firearm. Same with the "Sig brace". The ATF released an (assumedly intentional) vague statement on what the Brace is and where it stands legally, then a year later(?), came through with a much more defined "yes you can shoulder it" definition after pressure for a defined answer.

So while, yes, we find them useless for life and liberty, our 2a right, and i'd even go as far as to say there's a level of loss of full control over a weapon using said stocks that i'm not comfortable with (more so than a true automatic counterpart would have), sometimes you do have to pick and choose your battles. As big as the NRA is, they're still limited by time and resources. As I said previously, though, I don't know where I stand on the NRA's position as I haven't read their statement directly from the source. What I know is what i've heard from others, and i've heard several different stories of the definition, all claiming to be absolute truth.
I'm hopeful that by suggesting the issue ought to be bounced back to ATF in a pro-gun administration makes short work of the issue and provides a bit of PR breathing room.

But, ATF can be very dangerous. Recall these folks went from "once a rifle always a rifle" to "it's a handgun merely assembled as a rifle, but no rifle was made" with respect to going from handgun to rifle and back to handgun. And a DIAS is a machine gun. So we should be very careful and I'd hope NRA knows what they're doing.

I'm suspect of deals done under pressure, but perhaps that depends on the details. Something to consider - would we be OK with regulating "slidefire stocks" if we could buy firearms across state lines, face to face in a gun store? No state line considerations, do the 4473 and walk out same day.

I'm not keen dealing with the weasels who want to ban and prohibit - they'll never stop, they lie their fannies off about their ultimate goal of "no guns, no way". It's interesting to consider.
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Old 10-07-2017, 9:53 PM
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anyone who know anything about the poltical,and legal and cultural fight to maintain the second amendment would ever say that. How do yo know they did not straw poll a sample of members, I bet they did.
Have you ever wished, because I know I have, that these "hate the NRA" folks would be as quiet about complaining as they are about contributing?
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:36 PM
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Well, thanks, bye.
Looks like you need to replace batteries on your "ban hammer." Doesn't seem to work any longer...
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Old 10-10-2017, 3:03 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...d=264641617269

That was quick. Bipartisan bill in the House to go along with DiFi's in the Senate. And no mention of H.R. 38 being resuscitated as companion to this.
How do you gentlemen like your crow? Medium or well done?

The NRA tactics taken were a mistake! You do not negotiate with the Democrats. Ever. You crush them.
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Old 10-10-2017, 3:18 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...d=264641617269

That was quick. Bipartisan bill in the House to go along with DiFi's in the Senate. And no mention of H.R. 38 being resuscitated as companion to this.
How do you gentlemen like your crow? Medium or well done?

The NRA tactics taken were a mistake! You do not negotiate with the Democrats. Ever. You crush them.
Does it have a number? How about DiFi's?
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Old 10-10-2017, 5:00 PM
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The bill has 18 sponsors out of 218 required to pass in the House. Then it goes to Senate.

Don't count your crows before they hatch...
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Old 10-10-2017, 5:30 PM
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We are the ones who can claim to be "betrayed". Those who never supported the NRA are now coming out of the woodwork to claim betrayal by an organization they refused to join, even when offered free memberships. If anything, those people betrayed US by not helping when it was easy.
I'm a Life Member and I vote.

Don't you wish folks like the OP would do as much contributing as they do complaining.
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Old 10-10-2017, 5:31 PM
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I'm a Life Member and I vote.

Don't you wish folks like the OP would do as much contributing as they do complaining.
Seriously. This.

I'm willing to lay good money in Vegas the same people who don't contribute at all complain about the non tax paying EBT leeches.
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Old 10-10-2017, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Seriously. This.

I'm willing to lay good money in Vegas the same people who don't contribute at all complain about the non tax paying EBT leeches.
The OP is no different than someone sitting on their stoop complaining the monthly check hasn't arrived - then b*tching about the cost of cigarettes.
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  #72  
Old 10-10-2017, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by phrogg111 View Post
You people are absolutely ridiculous.

Just like regressive leftists when Pelosi says she wants all guns banned, you ignore what your own people say.

I posted the quote at the beginning of this discussion. The NRA believes that guns which fire rapidly should be subject to additional regulations. Their exact quote has already been posted.
What else was the NRA going to say right after this massacre? That was IMO the best statement for them. Now if the ATF determines at a later time that the slidefire is still legal it's a win win for us. If the NRA said anything that wasn't specific to addressing the slidefire stock like we can't blame the tool, we would be in a world of hurt politically right now. They made the right move.
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...d=264641617269

That was quick. Bipartisan bill in the House to go along with DiFi's in the Senate. And no mention of H.R. 38 being resuscitated as companion to this.
How do you gentlemen like your crow? Medium or well done?

The NRA tactics taken were a mistake! You do not negotiate with the Democrats. Ever. You crush them.
It doesn't appear to be listed yet:
https://www.congress.gov/

The Previous Bill, Done on Oct-4-2017:
H.R.3947 - Automatic Gunfire Prevention Act
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ouse-bill/3947

Was only given a 1% chance of being enacted by Skopos Labs
GovTrack. H.R. 3947: Automatic Gunfire Prevention Act
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr3947

And it isn't even listed on the Top 10 Viewed Bills List:

Most Viewed Bills
https://www.congress.gov/resources/d...t-Viewed+Bills


So its Way Too Early to be predicting the demise of Bump Fire Stocks.


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Old 10-10-2017, 6:57 PM
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Nonsense on both counts. ATF regulates full auto firearms. That's the current fact. If a new stock functionally converts a semi-auto into full auto, then it's already up to ATF to regulate it. That's what the NRA said.



This PREVENTS new legislation that would ban bump stocks.


Finally somebody gets it. The NRA is attempting to take the issue of bump stocks out of congress,and preventing a three ring circus using bereaved individuals in a for made for TV anti propaganda, and move it to the BATF as part of the NFA regs.


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Old 10-10-2017, 7:25 PM
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Rumor has it the NRA is willing to trade. Agree to make bump stocks illegal in return for Dems helping pass National Carry Reciprocity
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Old 10-10-2017, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Finally somebody gets it. The NRA is attempting to take the issue of bump stocks out of congress,and preventing a three ring circus using bereaved individuals in a for made for TV anti propaganda, and move it to the BATF as part of the NFA regs.


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I was going to ask exactly what the NRA had to gain by saying anything at all on the subject.

If their sense is that the Republicans in Congress are inclined to support a ban on bump stocks and other devices that might come under consideration, then the NRA's move makes sense here.

But if that's not the case, then it makes no sense at all, precisely because of the appearance it gives that the NRA agrees with the opposition and is thus amenable to yet more "compromises", EVERY SINGLE ONE of which has been entirely ONE-SIDED. Such a stance could easily result in the abandonment of the NRA on the part of people, like many of us, who have simply had enough of these "compromises".


As such: on what basis does the NRA believe that the Republicans in Congress will side with a bill banning "bump stocks"?
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:06 PM
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I was going to ask exactly what the NRA had to gain by saying anything at all on the subject.
Since the announcement, all attacks in the media on the NRA stopped. Without the boogieman, there is very little to the story.

What are they going to report? "Congress moves slower than the grass grows on a golf course?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
As such: on what basis does the NRA believe that the Republicans in Congress will side with a bill banning "bump stocks"?
They won't. That's the point.

Not to mention that the BATFE has already ruled that they don't have the legal authority to regulate bump fire stocks based on the current legal definitions of fully automatic firearms.

The only thing that can come out of this is that a bill with reciprocity contains bump fire stock ban in exchange for a few Democratic votes. Short of that, no bill will ever see the light of day.

It's a horse trading where we get the horse and the antis get horse s!@#t.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Since the announcement, all attacks in the media on the NRA stopped. Without the boogieman, there is very little to the story.
And the NRA cares about this because ... ?


Quote:
They won't. That's the point.
Is it indeed? If there's nothing to fear from the Republican majority in Congress as regards bump fire stocks, then there's nothing to gain politically by saying anything at all, since the position with respect to that issue is already secure. Conversely, if the NRA is perceived by anyone as siding with the opposition, they lose support by those who have such a perception.

There is nothing to be gained by risking one's actual support base in order to shut the already discredited media up.


Quote:
Not to mention that the BATFE has already ruled that they don't have the legal authority to regulate bump fire stocks based on the current legal definitions of fully automatic firearms.

The only thing that can come out of this is that a bill with reciprocity contains bump fire stock ban in exchange for a few Democratic votes. Short of that, no bill will ever see the light of day.
There will be no such exchange. The Democrats will not give up anything in order to get their way.


Quote:
It's a horse trading where we get the horse and the antis get horse s!@#t.
No, we don't get anything at all (since you yourself admit that there was no political risk to us in Congress if the NRA had remained silent), while the antis now get to proclaim that the NRA now agrees with them, and that like a prostitute, it's now just a matter of haggling on price.


Look, I'm no anti-NRA person at all. I am a lifetime member after all. They've done many good things and in many ways have been the only game in town as far as real support for the right to arms goes. But they simply cannot afford to make a mistake here, most especially with respect to what amounts to negotiating with the enemy. When will the NRA learn that, like North Korea has with respect to their agreement to not develop nuclear arms in exchange for lifting of sanctions against them, the opposition will simply do what they want no matter what we concede?
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Last edited by kcbrown; 10-10-2017 at 11:24 PM..
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  #79  
Old 10-11-2017, 1:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tankarian View Post
Rumor has it the NRA is willing to trade. Agree to make bump stocks illegal in return for Dems helping pass National Carry Reciprocity
And this may be their tactic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Burnout,

We live in a complex political world. A fair fraction of GOPs won't move unless kicked.

Also, this can get a Democrat into schizoids: if he has to vote against the stock, he has to support National Reciprocity and other improvements. And the more people have and are allowed to carry guns the more they defend gun rights in general.

This is a long game. Chess, not checkers. Also there's a good chance the ATF channel that approved the SlideFire can be replaced with even better staff given the current Administration.

I'm confident enough that the NRA can divert this attention from legislative to regulatory where, it is entirely possible to find the device still is legal ;-)

Gun groups that are not the NRA (esp GOA) have never accomplished anything on the national level and at best have only assisted in changing a legislator here or there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Bingo.

Attach a slide-fire ban to National reciprosity making it effectively "must-pass"

Then take the slide fire ban to court on the basis that it is not a firearm, and therefore not being a serialized, controlled/controllable item, it can not be banned any more than a dinner plate.
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I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
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  #80  
Old 10-11-2017, 4:45 AM
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Originally Posted by madjack956 View Post
Full auto suppressive fire has its place.
Yep, and I hear the Marine Corps are accepting applications.
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