Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-03-2017, 10:47 PM
PSLguy PSLguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 602
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default Never give up....

I've lived here since the early 80's when I was in the military. Got out, and stayed. Good jobs, great money.

This place has changed, some good, some not so much. Under the "not so much" label, I'd single out anti gun legislation. Let's call it what it is. It's not gun legislation, but anti-gun legislation.

Still, our leaders in the pro-gun movement have done amazing things for us here in California. We need to acknowledge that.

The last thing we need is a feeling of hopelessness, or a sense of an inability to influence things.

Nothing could be further from the truth!!! Case in point? Look to the recent mass shooting in Las Vegas. POTUS and both the R's and conservative D's in
Congress will not allow any meaningful Federal, anti-gun legislation to move forward.

Sure, there will be countless nightly news and op-ed pieces on how the NRA and their members are Satan incarnate. Only thing that has changed there is that the "hard news" orgs had dropped any pretense of being impartial. Yawwnnn.....

My point? Never give up. Keep fighting!!! Everyone counted Trump out at the polls and laughed at him. He won, in part because he spoke the truth to people in the Heartland where his message resonated.

You don't have to be a Trump fan to understand how his message resonates with middle America. I grew up in the corn fields of Illinois.

We are not dullards, nor do we cling to our guns and religion out of a sense of hopelessness.

We hold our guns out proudly, out of a sense of duty and patriotism.

We are uniquely American. It is what we do. We don't always understand why, we just know what is right, and we go do it.

"When in doubt, run towards gunfire"......
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-04-2017, 11:45 AM
GreggieBoy's Avatar
GreggieBoy GreggieBoy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 457
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Well said sir!
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-04-2017, 2:23 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

This placed has changed. Donít confuse anti gun laws and pols as a different aspect. Anti gun laws are a byproduct of what this state has become. Think about it. We are 49 out of 50 in catoís freedom index. We are 50th in business friendliness. We have the highest tax laws, most stringent enviro regs and labor laws, and other business regs. The state is hell bent on forcing everyone into electric vehicles. They are targeting every aspect of how we live our lives. Even down to plastic bags in grocery stores.

They are driving millions of kalifornian subjects into poverty through cost of living and housing expenses, putting the state on a ďroad dietĒ, and whose building policies are to urbanize and increase density while eliminating sprawl.

They control every aspect of our lives. Why would guns be any different. You think theyíre ďanti gun ď. Theyíre not. Theyíre anti liberty. Theyíre tyrants, who seek to rule us. And the sad part is the people by and large want to be ruled. Most people here not only have no problem with that, hey actually approve of and desire it.

Now, before you stand up with ďwe must take backĒ or ďstay and fightĒ or whatever else, remember, this is what the people of this state want. Theyíve won. The state is different, vastly different, from when I grew up here.

Hell, I remember this state being ďReagan countryĒ. I worked on his campaign. Twice. And he won the state twice. And Bush 1 won this state in 1988. Worked on his campaign too. But that is a very very distant past. We are generations removed from that state, and generations from ever recovering even a fraction of it.

There are several options remaining for anyone left in the state who values liberty. They all start with the word interstate and end with the word east.

Spend your words but save your money. Enough for a moving van and down payment in Free America.
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-04-2017, 3:19 PM
Redpenny Redpenny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

rm1911, no disrespect intended at all to you sir, it is easy to feel your anger and frustration. But places change and you still have the freedom to choose whether to live here or not, that will never change. . Just FTR, I am a native born Californian and raised here and, except for college, have never lived in another state.

California is one of the most dynamic places to live on earth. Some of the largest companies in the world thrive here due to the huge pool of talented and intelligent people available. These companies, Apple, Google, Facebook, Intel, Chevron, Wells Fargo, McKesson and countless others could headquarter anywhere in the US and they chose to stay here. And there is no place in the world where new companies are created at a faster pace. The wealth here is immense as is the standard of living for most people. There will always be poor, that will be an ongoing problem everywhere and one that must be solved by people smarter than me. But overall we enjoy access to a very good life. How 'bout moving to Kansas and be part of the 'Economic Miracle' Sam Brownback tossed on that state. Going real well for them so far.

Strict environmental laws? Is it better to have filthy water, air, and land? Is it better to let every effing animal die off just so some jackass can dump toxics into the streams and rivers like they do in China and every other crap hole country that you can't drink the water in. Remember when you couldn't see the mountains in SoCal from LA and people had to stay inside on smog days? I do, and that rarely happens anymore. Ever been to Beijing? Tried taking a deep breath over there? The laws are strict and likely overreach sometimes, but they have worked so far.

Yes, housing is expensive. But that is because people want to be here to work and to take advantage of the advantages of living in this state. Densifying the urban environment preserves the open countrysides near the cities that we have left and there is no shortage of places to go if you want to live in the middle of nowhere. It also lowers the cost of housing once a critical mass of units is available. This is what I do every day of my working life.

Of course the state is different from when you and I grew up. What place has stayed the same? Do I dislike things about the state, of course, quite a few things. The Democratic majority goes overboard on a regular basis and there is little oversight to get things clawed back to a reasonable level. But none of those people in the legislature got their seats in a box of Crackerjack, they were elected. The state you live in right now is the state the majority of the people want. And between the CA Supreme Court and the 9th District conservative laws have little chance of survival so it is very likely this state will stay the way it is or go more to the left.

So that begs the question, why do you stay? I stay because it is my greatest opportunity to give my family the best in life. Guns are awesome, I think that every time I open my safe. But the enjoyment or security I get from firearms pales in contrast to providing for my family. There is no place in the country that I could make more money doing what I do other than here. I am trying to ensure the future for my family for many generations and I am not dumb enough to jeopardize that and move somewhere else just because my state throws some restrictions on my weapons of choice. The last time I checked all of them still go bang and would dust any bad guy stupid enough to enter my home. And despite the frequent doom and gloom around here I don't see CA overturning 2A all by themselves. Not that they wouldn't want to.....

I would say to anyone, stay if you like, go if you must. But decrying change is like trying to stop the weather. Good luck with that!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-04-2017, 3:24 PM
QXSOUP QXSOUP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Was Sacto.. now FREE in Ohio
Posts: 941
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

You need to get out more. CA is a sinking ship and you are discussing re arranging the deck chairs. Get off the ship while you can.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-04-2017, 4:03 PM
Redpenny Redpenny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

QXSOUP, I already own a house in AZ with acreage. Never hurts to have a plan B (or C, D, and E), but I am fine here right now. I just hold on to my BOB real tight...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-04-2017, 4:07 PM
XCC_RIDER's Avatar
XCC_RIDER XCC_RIDER is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Socialist Republic of Kalyforrnya
Posts: 129
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

No offense but I think you need to do some research on big business and how many have bailed out of California and not on the few who have stayed. Just ask Texas how many they've enticed into leaving California and go there.

There's only two things we have more of now, people and taxes/fees. As for less of, you can start with rights, freedoms, spending money and the list goes on and on.

I've been here since 1966 (came here in my teenage years) and have seen the declines. Not a place the wife and I want to stay in but the current family situation(s) require us to stay for the foreseeable future.
Not happy about it, just the way it is.
__________________
50% Deplorable, 50% wanting America to return to what it was
And proud of it!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-04-2017, 4:08 PM
oddball oddball is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: East of the Tunnel, soon East of the State
Posts: 1,120
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSLguy View Post
Nothing could be further from the truth!!! Case in point? Look to the recent mass shooting in Las Vegas. POTUS and both the R's and conservative D's in
Congress will not allow any meaningful Federal, anti-gun legislation to move forward.
But you cannot say the same for California politicians. Sorry to say, the "amazing things" advocates have done for gun owners is moot because we still have the most oppressive laws. We are worse off than years ago. New laws are created each year to restrict our rights, and will go into hyper speed in the near future when Newsom becomes Governor (and he will win, so far there is no "Trump" to come along)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSLguy View Post
Everyone counted Trump out at the polls and laughed at him. He won, in part because he spoke the truth to people in the Heartland where his message resonated.

You don't have to be a Trump fan to understand how his message resonates with middle America. I grew up in the corn fields of Illinois.
CA is not the "heartland" or "middle America", not even close. It is the most leftist state in the union. BTW, Hillary voters outnumbered Trump voters 2:1 in this state. 2 to 1. We are pretty much the first declared "Sanctuary State, just waiting for Moonbeam's signature. CA has retained Eric Holder to fight against Trump. Just a few things that make CA a laughing stock.

It is not "giving up". I hate CA with a passion, I can't stand living here, and I have been here for 56 years. We sold our house already, we are gone soon.
__________________
_______________


"There is no hell. There is only France"- Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-04-2017, 4:39 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpenny View Post
rm1911, no disrespect intended at all to you sir, it is easy to feel your anger and frustration. But places change and you still have the freedom to choose whether to live here or not, that will never change. . Just FTR, I am a native born Californian and raised here and, except for college, have never lived in another state.

California is one of the most dynamic places to live on earth. Some of the largest companies in the world thrive here due to the huge pool of talented and intelligent people available. These companies, Apple, Google, Facebook, Intel, Chevron, Wells Fargo, McKesson and countless others could headquarter anywhere in the US and they chose to stay here. And there is no place in the world where new companies are created at a faster pace. The wealth here is immense as is the standard of living for most people. There will always be poor, that will be an ongoing problem everywhere and one that must be solved by people smarter than me. But overall we enjoy access to a very good life. How 'bout moving to Kansas and be part of the 'Economic Miracle' Sam Brownback tossed on that state. Going real well for them so far.

Strict environmental laws? Is it better to have filthy water, air, and land? Is it better to let every effing animal die off just so some jackass can dump toxics into the streams and rivers like they do in China and every other crap hole country that you can't drink the water in. Remember when you couldn't see the mountains in SoCal from LA and people had to stay inside on smog days? I do, and that rarely happens anymore. Ever been to Beijing? Tried taking a deep breath over there? The laws are strict and likely overreach sometimes, but they have worked so far.

Yes, housing is expensive. But that is because people want to be here to work and to take advantage of the advantages of living in this state. Densifying the urban environment preserves the open countrysides near the cities that we have left and there is no shortage of places to go if you want to live in the middle of nowhere. It also lowers the cost of housing once a critical mass of units is available. This is what I do every day of my working life.

Of course the state is different from when you and I grew up. What place has stayed the same? Do I dislike things about the state, of course, quite a few things. The Democratic majority goes overboard on a regular basis and there is little oversight to get things clawed back to a reasonable level. But none of those people in the legislature got their seats in a box of Crackerjack, they were elected. The state you live in right now is the state the majority of the people want. And between the CA Supreme Court and the 9th District conservative laws have little chance of survival so it is very likely this state will stay the way it is or go more to the left.

So that begs the question, why do you stay? I stay because it is my greatest opportunity to give my family the best in life. Guns are awesome, I think that every time I open my safe. But the enjoyment or security I get from firearms pales in contrast to providing for my family. There is no place in the country that I could make more money doing what I do other than here. I am trying to ensure the future for my family for many generations and I am not dumb enough to jeopardize that and move somewhere else just because my state throws some restrictions on my weapons of choice. The last time I checked all of them still go bang and would dust any bad guy stupid enough to enter my home. And despite the frequent doom and gloom around here I don't see CA overturning 2A all by themselves. Not that they wouldn't want to.....

I would say to anyone, stay if you like, go if you must. But decrying change is like trying to stop the weather. Good luck with that!


Wow, talk about Stockholm syndrome. Geez.

First off, yes we all have freedom to leave. Unfortunately for many itís a very difficult option. It does require a lot of liquidation of things and uprooting of lives. Sometimes itís not possible.

Yes many companies are headquartered here. But honestly, where does Apple, Facebook, all those other tech companies expand in? How about Austin, Texas. How about the high tech boom in Utah. Ah, but those are backwater f*** places, not like Silicon Valley. Oh but theyíre not like it. Theyíre beating it.

And besides thereís 38 million subjects here. Someoneís gotta sell them something. Yes, there are some very high skilled people here. And very well paid. As well they should be.

But apparently you donít read much on poverty stats. We have 1 in 5 subjects living in poverty. Also, kalifornia has the greatest income inequality in the country. We have a shrinking, no longer the majority, middle class. I would absolutely call kaliforniaís economy great, for the rich. They have been doing great.

Then the jobs thing. Yes, thereís good job growth here. In low wage service sectors OR high tech high paid jobs. Nothing in between. (Wait until $15 min wage kicks in full force).

As for Kansas, the attackís have been by the usual lefty Keynesian hacks. Sure, tax cuts reduced tax revenue. Thatís a good thing in my mind. Attributing slow job growth to tax cuts is like attributing rain to people carrying umbrellas. Thereís a lot of factors. But those criticizing Kansas are doing it from the ďgovernment has got to do all this spending on __________Ē perspective. No, you canít have low tax rates and high spending. But, canít have high tax rates and high spending either.

Lest anyone think brown has been a great fiscal steward, wait until the calstrs and calpers unfinded liabilities come calling. Brown has kicked the can down the road and made it worse. But hey, Iíll be retired by then and, oh yeah, my calstrs retirement checks are legally guaranteed and come out of general revenue when the funds are short.

Right now calstrs is 65-70% funded. When I started teaching in 1998, it was fully funded. You do the math.

Love how itís either Beijing air or clean air. You apparently never took an economics class because you know about diminishing marginal utility and increasing opportunity cost.

But you probably also like being ruled. It isnít about guns. Itís about liberty. You are correct. The legislature got elected. By the people. They do exactly what the people want. Thatís what I said. Thatís why thereís no hope.

So, enjoy being a subject with nice weather. Youíve made excuses for being a subject. No need. Kalifornians by and large desire to be subjects. Some even own guns. Iím ok with that.

And it is that weather that draws and keeps many, those who donít bother much about liberty. There are few places you could make more money. But considering cost of living in other states, you can enjoy higher standard of living on lesser salaries.

And you might not believe it but itís not the case that housing is expensive because ďeveryone wants to live hereĒ. Itís so expensive because thatís exactly public policy. Period.

But keep deluding yourself. Enjoy your serfdom. I at least wonít enjoy it as long. As Iím here. And hopefully I can exit sooner than later.
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-04-2017, 7:04 PM
smokehammer's Avatar
smokehammer smokehammer is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 76
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I was born here. Its my homeland. The pinko tweekers can leave! I say we help them get to their North Korean brothers by throwing them into the ocean.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2017, 10:22 PM
Redpenny Redpenny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The talk about companies leaving Silicon Valley for good is BS. Apple just built a 5 billion dollar building in Cupertino and has bought two more very large parcels in San Jose. Google is building a 20,000 employee campus in downtown San Jose, bought 800 million worth the property in Sunnyvale, and Microsoft is doing a huge expansion in the North Bayshore area of Mountain View. And that is just to name a few of the large projects these companies and others are committing to. Companies leave one state to go to another all the time, and others replace them.

And Kansas is doing so well the legislature voted to raise taxes. And then they overrode the governors veto. So don't begin to lecture me on how great the 'real live experiment' in that state was going.

And so let me understand this. Greenwich, Manhattan, Palm Beach, Honolulu, and Seattle all have high housing prices because it is public policy. Couldn't have anything to do with supply and demand, attractive job markets or a desire of people to live there. In northern California the city of San Jose is 100,000+ units of housing short even though they (we in the case of my company) are building units as fast as the land of existing uses can be converted to housing. Houses are expensive here because the demand is high and the supply is low. Even I who, according to you has never taken an economics class, understands that. I quite obviously do not know very much but I work in this industry every day and I can assure you that most communities are welcoming new housing with open arms and then some.

Liberties? What specific liberties have you given up by living here? Which amendments to the constitution have been overturned here? How is it that you personally are suffering. Educate me, I am dumb to these facts and always willing to learn.

I own my business, pay very low property taxes compared to my friends in other states, have enough equity in my home to buy a small town in some states and certainly enough so that I will be able to live mortgage free and have a big lump in the bank should I decide to retire to my Arizona property. Things are not perfect here by any means but the opportunities for business and the abundance of free cash in this state is hard to match if one is looking to maximize their return on labor.

And yes, some small communities are having trouble funding their Calpers liabilities. I just read about two such towns in the far north of the state. But for people like my wife, who worked for one of the cities in the Bay area, they have little to worry about due to the large amounts of income these cities make from the very companies you claim are moving out of state.

Feel very free to live your life as you please but don't castigate me for wanting to mine a nice rich vein for my own prosperity. I just went to my 45th high school reunion, had not been to a previous one, and I marveled at how well the people that I talked to were doing in their lives. These are mostly conservative Orange county residents and person after person filled me in on their lives. There were 150 people there out of a class of 390 and the obvious prosperity in the room was easy to see and there was bare little talk of oppression.

So I honestly ask again, which liberties have I given up? Which liberties does my son in Nevada enjoy that I do not? I do not have blinders on. I am a stone cold capitalist leveraging every opportunity I can. If this place mines out I will leave, but it doesn't look like that is happening from where I am standing.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-05-2017, 5:56 AM
BluNorthern's Avatar
BluNorthern BluNorthern is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lassen County
Posts: 9,887
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Yet another Pollyanna anti posing as a gun owner here on Calguns.

Getting quite a crowd of them.
__________________
"I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-05-2017, 7:03 AM
ja308 ja308 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,924
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpenny View Post
rm1911, no disrespect intended at all to you sir, it is easy to feel your anger and frustration. But places change and you still have the freedom to choose whether to live here or not, that will never change. . Just FTR, I am a native born Californian and raised here and, except for college, have never lived in another state.

California is one of the most dynamic places to live on earth. Some of the largest companies in the world thrive here due to the huge pool of talented and intelligent people available. These companies, Apple, Google, Facebook, Intel, Chevron, Wells Fargo, McKesson and countless others could headquarter anywhere in the US and they chose to stay here. And there is no place in the world where new companies are created at a faster pace. The wealth here is immense as is the standard of living for most people. There will always be poor, that will be an ongoing problem everywhere and one that must be solved by people smarter than me. But overall we enjoy access to a very good life. How 'bout moving to Kansas and be part of the 'Economic Miracle' Sam Brownback tossed on that state. Going real well for them so far.

Strict environmental laws? Is it better to have filthy water, air, and land? Is it better to let every effing animal die off just so some jackass can dump toxics into the streams and rivers like they do in China and every other crap hole country that you can't drink the water in. Remember when you couldn't see the mountains in SoCal from LA and people had to stay inside on smog days? I do, and that rarely happens anymore. Ever been to Beijing? Tried taking a deep breath over there? The laws are strict and likely overreach sometimes, but they have worked so far.

Yes, housing is expensive. But that is because people want to be here to work and to take advantage of the advantages of living in this state. Densifying the urban environment preserves the open countrysides near the cities that we have left and there is no shortage of places to go if you want to live in the middle of nowhere. It also lowers the cost of housing once a critical mass of units is available. This is what I do every day of my working life.

Of course the state is different from when you and I grew up. What place has stayed the same? Do I dislike things about the state, of course, quite a few things. The Democratic majority goes overboard on a regular basis and there is little oversight to get things clawed back to a reasonable level. But none of those people in the legislature got their seats in a box of Crackerjack, they were elected. The state you live in right now is the state the majority of the people want. And between the CA Supreme Court and the 9th District conservative laws have little chance of survival so it is very likely this state will stay the way it is or go more to the left.

So that begs the question, why do you stay? I stay because it is my greatest opportunity to give my family the best in life. Guns are awesome, I think that every time I open my safe. But the enjoyment or security I get from firearms pales in contrast to providing for my family. There is no place in the country that I could make more money doing what I do other than here. I am trying to ensure the future for my family for many generations and I am not dumb enough to jeopardize that and move somewhere else just because my state throws some restrictions on my weapons of choice. The last time I checked all of them still go bang and would dust any bad guy stupid enough to enter my home. And despite the frequent doom and gloom around here I don't see CA overturning 2A all by themselves. Not that they wouldn't want to.....

I would say to anyone, stay if you like, go if you must. But decrying change is like trying to stop the weather. Good luck with that!

Im pleased your OK with what others consider foolish and destructive!

For one I like the idea of being a partner in keeping myself, family and society safe with a CCW permit. Something the state govt of California finds dangerous despite evidence from 42 free states!

For2, this state believes legislates and taxes to stop man made climate change. Unfortunately they are a little late ! A simple trip to Arizona which was once under water should prove to even the dumbest person human activity does not change the climate. I mean Arizona was once under water. yeah the Grand Canyon kinda proves that!

The fact you or someone you or someone you love could end up with hepatitis A because the liberal mindset of promoting the drug addicted, alcoholic, lazy tramps who refuse to work now called homeless is another factor. Throw in some food workers who are unwilling to wash their hands and liberal California doesn't seem safe!
__________________
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
Ayn Rand

Last edited by ja308; 10-05-2017 at 7:16 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-05-2017, 8:15 AM
Redpenny Redpenny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Yet another Pollyanna anti posing as a gun owner here on Calguns.

Getting quite a crowd of them.
Nice to know the folks up in Lassen are psychic as well as rugged individualists...

Sorry to cloud your crystal ball. I love guns, I shoot every month without fail and take classes from Gordon Grey out at GreyOps once or twice a year to gain new skills. To anyone who has not shot with him it is well worth the trip out to Sacramento to take a class and learn from someone of his depth of knowledge and experience. Even his basic classes are hugely informative.

I try to get everyone in my circle to the range to learn and experience what it is like to shoot. I hope that all of them will arm themselves and do what it takes to be proficient with a weapon.

Just because someone has a difference of opinion with you does mean they are not like minded on the majority of subjects. I just don't share a hate of California, that's all. I am quite positive that we see eye to eye on many issues.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:54 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpenny View Post
Nice to know the folks up in Lassen are psychic as well as rugged individualists...



Sorry to cloud your crystal ball. I love guns, I shoot every month without fail and take classes from Gordon Grey out at GreyOps once or twice a year to gain new skills. To anyone who has not shot with him it is well worth the trip out to Sacramento to take a class and learn from someone of his depth of knowledge and experience. Even his basic classes are hugely informative.



I try to get everyone in my circle to the range to learn and experience what it is like to shoot. I hope that all of them will arm themselves and do what it takes to be proficient with a weapon.



Just because someone has a difference of opinion with you does mean they are not like minded on the majority of subjects. I just don't share a hate of California, that's all. I am quite positive that we see eye to eye on many issues.


You are correct that kalifornia has much to offer. Those of us old enough will appreciate this observation.

I grew up in Pat Brownís California, my kids are growing up in Jerry Brownís kalifornia.

By that I mean look around at the freeways, universities, aqueduct, and so much of the California that we admire. Pat brown was the architect of so much of what made this state the envy of the nation and world. He built the infrastructure that promoted tremendous growth which he knew was coming. He created a positive business environment that enticed businesses far and wide to come here. He created the tiered university system (Donahue Act) that made the state the top research location in the world (UC system) as well as the leader in professional skilled employment (CSU system). Our dams and road system became the model for building a modern economic society.

He was a democrat for sure and a new dealer and not everything he did or believed I agree with. However, his legacy is profound and should be recognized. We are living off his work still and existing on fumes. Without him weíd be now the banana republic weíre fast becoming.

Check out our roads today. They are ranked last in the nation. Thatís a really good indicator of things. We spend dozens of billions on a high speed choo choo from the middle of a place nobody wants to be to a place nobody wants to go. All the while driving on the freeway is an e ticket ride. Warned for years about damage to oroville dam (where I use to fish at the base of, and dove hunt nearby) nothing was done to fix it for years because dams have been low priority for decades especially with this administration. In fact they have been tearing down dams. Like matilija in ojai.

We have not built a reservoir in decades. We havenít built a power plant in decades. In fact weíve been decertifying power plants instead of permitting new ones. Like San onofre.

Rather than building watersheds we instead unleash billions of gallons into the delta to save a smelt. Farmers are facing ruin. Poverty and unemployment in places Selma and Fresno is epidemic while a short drive away multimillion dollar studio loft homes in complexes surrounded by armed guards enjoy lifestyles that would make the Bourbonís jealous.

As I mentioned, 1 in 5 kalifornians live in poverty, a condition exacerbated by energy and housing policies which drive up the cost of everything. Millions more live in the edge every day.

The state puts its priorities into welcoming millions of immigrants who have little education and job skills, who put tremendous strain in the public service systems, and who have neither the ability nor desire to assimilate and become citizens. And perform the menial tasks for the wealthy and do the dirty work of low paying backbreaking work in what amounts to a caste system.

Odd isnít it that the enlightened liberal gentry see no hypocrisy in their multicultural tolerances while at the same time ensconced in their private estates protected form the hoi polloi, unaffected by the very policies they so promulgate. Odd isnít it that the luxuries of environmental paradise and no offshore drilling come at the very cost of those most susceptible to the consequences and costs.

Now, many of us here see the writing on the wall. Do we no longer enjoy trial by jury? Of course we do. Do we no longer enjoy freedom of religion? Well, Iím not a baker but I assume itís still fairly protected.

However, businesses are fleeing as are middle and lower income families. It is true that kalifornia has much to offer many firms. So does Texas. As Kansas discovered, it takes much more than low taxes. Taxes are but one of many factors. Low, in fact no, income taxes serves Texas well. They figured out how to keep expenditures low. Texas, in case youíre wondering, has roughly the same per capita gdp as does kalifornia. Kansas is much lower, a result of many factors. Kansas also has much higher spending per capita, this a budget shortfall. And it has less in terms of workforce, and other amenities that facilitate business growth. Itís just the way it is.

Using kansasí short term experiment is false equivalency. Itís comparing apples to oranges. And itís considering only one of many factors. Kansas wasnít a great business locale before, and its tax cuts put it on par with other regions, not at a comparative advantage. (Yes, I do my homework).

The truer comparison is kalfiornia to Texas or Florida or other states similar.

Kalifornia has an onerous coastal commission. And lots of other things that make it inhospitable to businesses. Kalifornia is also blessed with the largest port in the US and by default is the entry point for hundreds of billions in trade. Is that good policy or dumb luck that as the Asian markets have boomed kalifornia has reaped rewards?

We see the writing on the wall in population and demographic shifts and changes. The state went 2:1 for the hildebeast. Thereís literally no opposition to the rampant attacks on the liberties of the people. Thatís what we see. Weíre not the first nor the last. We feel the particularly perniciousness of the gun laws, but ask a farmer of rancher or homeowner on the coast, or business trying to deal with paperwork how friendly kalifornia is to them.

Or look at he trends which point in the wrong direction. I get it, that part of the allure of the state is unlike anywhere else. I drove across a large part of free America this summer. I got caught in a thunderstorm in Omaha and thought I was going to die. Scared the holy hell out of me. They took it in stride. Oh well, it comes and passes. But me??? Thought the apocalypse arrived.

However it was also an amazing trip to parts of the country and was tremendously eye opening. Itís a different world. You give some you get some. Some things maybe you canít give up. Fine.

The thing is more and more this state is inhospitable to anything resembling concerns for liberty. And thatís what a lot of us see. Itís not the immediate, itís the continual and downward trends. What do think weíll look like in another 20 years, with a more bifurcated society? We have a growing underclass and insulated upper class, growing more so each year. I see a bleaker future for my kids and a state whose values that are promulgated by it are completely at odds with mine.

Maybe Iím not a gun owning liberal, er, leftist. There are some. Fine. Rights are for everyone. No argument. But can we honestly say the state is heading in a positive direction? The answer is unequivocally no. Neither economically nor politically.

Weíve been living off the ďCalifornia dreamĒ for a long time. It doesnít last forever. How much longer will our roads last? How much longer will the budget hold when the unfunded mandates come due? How much longer will the state function with a large underclass that demands largesse and an insulated and protected upper elite dictating policy to their benefit? Brownís quick and expedient fixes are a legacy, the piper will come calling for later.

So that is the problem. Some look out their window and see the sunshine. Some look off to the distance and see a storm.
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-05-2017, 1:01 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpenny View Post
Nice to know the folks up in Lassen are psychic as well as rugged individualists...



Sorry to cloud your crystal ball. I love guns, I shoot every month without fail and take classes from Gordon Grey out at GreyOps once or twice a year to gain new skills. To anyone who has not shot with him it is well worth the trip out to Sacramento to take a class and learn from someone of his depth of knowledge and experience. Even his basic classes are hugely informative.



I try to get everyone in my circle to the range to learn and experience what it is like to shoot. I hope that all of them will arm themselves and do what it takes to be proficient with a weapon.



Just because someone has a difference of opinion with you does mean they are not like minded on the majority of subjects. I just don't share a hate of California, that's all. I am quite positive that we see eye to eye on many issues.


You are correct that kalifornia has much to offer. Those of us old enough will appreciate this observation.

I grew up in Pat Brownís California, my kids are growing up in Jerry Brownís kalifornia.

By that I mean look around at the freeways, universities, aqueduct, and so much of the California that we admire. Pat brown was the architect of so much of what made this state the envy of the nation and world. He built the infrastructure that promoted tremendous growth which he knew was coming. He created a positive business environment that enticed businesses far and wide to come here. He created the tiered university system (Donahue Act) that made the state the top research location in the world (UC system) as well as the leader in professional skilled employment (CSU system). Our dams and road system became the model for building a modern economic society.

He was a democrat for sure and a new dealer and not everything he did or believed I agree with. However, his legacy is profound and should be recognized. We are living off his work still and existing on fumes. Without him weíd be now the banana republic weíre fast becoming.

Check out our roads today. They are ranked last in the nation. Thatís a really good indicator of things. We spend dozens of billions on a high speed choo choo from the middle of a place nobody wants to be to a place nobody wants to go. All the while driving on the freeway is an e ticket ride. Warned for years about damage to oroville dam (where I use to fish at the base of, and dove hunt nearby) nothing was done to fix it for years because dams have been low priority for decades especially with this administration. In fact they have been tearing down dams. Like matilija in ojai.

We have not built a reservoir in decades. We havenít built a power plant in decades. In fact weíve been decertifying power plants instead of permitting new ones. Like San onofre.

Rather than building watersheds we instead unleash billions of gallons into the delta to save a smelt. Farmers are facing ruin. Poverty and unemployment in places Selma and Fresno is epidemic while a short drive away multimillion dollar studio loft homes in complexes surrounded by armed guards enjoy lifestyles that would make the Bourbonís jealous.

As I mentioned, 1 in 5 kalifornians live in poverty, a condition exacerbated by energy and housing policies which drive up the cost of everything. Millions more live in the edge every day.

The state puts its priorities into welcoming millions of immigrants who have little education and job skills, who put tremendous strain in the public service systems, and who have neither the ability nor desire to assimilate and become citizens. And perform the menial tasks for the wealthy and do the dirty work of low paying backbreaking work in what amounts to a caste system.

Odd isnít it that the enlightened liberal gentry see no hypocrisy in their multicultural tolerances while at the same time ensconced in their private estates protected form the hoi polloi, unaffected by the very policies they so promulgate. Odd isnít it that the luxuries of environmental paradise and no offshore drilling come at the very cost of those most susceptible to the consequences and costs.

Now, many of us here see the writing on the wall. Do we no longer enjoy trial by jury? Of course we do. Do we no longer enjoy freedom of religion? Well, Iím not a baker but I assume itís still fairly protected.

However, businesses are fleeing as are middle and lower income families. It is true that kalifornia has much to offer many firms. So does Texas. As Kansas discovered, it takes much more than low taxes. Taxes are but one of many factors. Low, in fact no, income taxes serves Texas well. They figured out how to keep expenditures low. Texas, in case youíre wondering, has roughly the same per capita gdp as does kalifornia. Kansas is much lower, a result of many factors. Kansas also has much higher spending per capita, this a budget shortfall. And it has less in terms of workforce, and other amenities that facilitate business growth. Itís just the way it is.

Using kansasí short term experiment is false equivalency. Itís comparing apples to oranges. And itís considering only one of many factors. Kansas wasnít a great business locale before, and its tax cuts put it on par with other regions, not at a comparative advantage. (Yes, I do my homework).

The truer comparison is kalfiornia to Texas or Florida or other states similar.

Kalifornia has an onerous coastal commission. And lots of other things that make it inhospitable to businesses. Kalifornia is also blessed with the largest port in the US and by default is the entry point for hundreds of billions in trade. Is that good policy or dumb luck that as the Asian markets have boomed kalifornia has reaped rewards?

We see the writing on the wall in population and demographic shifts and changes. The state went 2:1 for the hildebeast. Thereís literally no opposition to the rampant attacks on the liberties of the people. Thatís what we see. Weíre not the first nor the last. We feel the particularly perniciousness of the gun laws, but ask a farmer of rancher or homeowner on the coast, or business trying to deal with paperwork how friendly kalifornia is to them.

Or look at he trends which point in the wrong direction. I get it, that part of the allure of the state is unlike anywhere else. I drove across a large part of free America this summer. I got caught in a thunderstorm in Omaha and thought I was going to die. Scared the holy hell out of me. They took it in stride. Oh well, it comes and passes. But me??? Thought the apocalypse arrived.

However it was also an amazing trip to parts of the country and was tremendously eye opening. Itís a different world. You give some you get some. Some things maybe you canít give up. Fine.

The thing is more and more this state is inhospitable to anything resembling concerns for liberty. And thatís what a lot of us see. Itís not the immediate, itís the continual and downward trends. What do think weíll look like in another 20 years, with a more bifurcated society? We have a growing underclass and insulated upper class, growing more so each year. I see a bleaker future for my kids and a state whose values that are promulgated by it are completely at odds with mine.

Maybe Iím not a gun owning liberal, er, leftist. There are some. Fine. Rights are for everyone. No argument. But can we honestly say the state is heading in a positive direction? The answer is unequivocally no. Neither economically nor politically.

Weíve been living off the ďCalifornia dreamĒ for a long time. It doesnít last forever. How much longer will our roads last? How much longer will the budget hold when the unfunded mandates come due? How much longer will the state function with a large underclass that demands largesse and an insulated and protected upper elite dictating policy to their benefit? Brownís quick and expedient fixes are a legacy, the piper will come calling for later.

So that is the problem. Some look out their window and see the sunshine. Some look off to the distance and see a storm.
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-05-2017, 1:19 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpenny View Post
Nice to know the folks up in Lassen are psychic as well as rugged individualists...



Sorry to cloud your crystal ball. I love guns, I shoot every month without fail and take classes from Gordon Grey out at GreyOps once or twice a year to gain new skills. To anyone who has not shot with him it is well worth the trip out to Sacramento to take a class and learn from someone of his depth of knowledge and experience. Even his basic classes are hugely informative.



I try to get everyone in my circle to the range to learn and experience what it is like to shoot. I hope that all of them will arm themselves and do what it takes to be proficient with a weapon.



Just because someone has a difference of opinion with you does mean they are not like minded on the majority of subjects. I just don't share a hate of California, that's all. I am quite positive that we see eye to eye on many issues.


You are correct that kalifornia has much to offer. Those of us old enough will appreciate this observation.

I grew up in Pat Brownís California, my kids are growing up in Jerry Brownís kalifornia.

By that I mean look around at the freeways, universities, aqueduct, and so much of the California that we admire. Pat brown was the architect of so much of what made this state the envy of the nation and world. He built the infrastructure that promoted tremendous growth which he knew was coming. He created a positive business environment that enticed businesses far and wide to come here. He created the tiered university system (Donahue Act) that made the state the top research location in the world (UC system) as well as the leader in professional skilled employment (CSU system). Our dams and road system became the model for building a modern economic society.

He was a democrat for sure and a new dealer and not everything he did or believed I agree with. However, his legacy is profound and should be recognized. We are living off his work still and existing on fumes. Without him weíd be now the banana republic weíre fast becoming.

Check out our roads today. They are ranked last in the nation. Thatís a really good indicator of things. We spend dozens of billions on a high speed choo choo from the middle of a place nobody wants to be to a place nobody wants to go. All the while driving on the freeway is an e ticket ride. Warned for years about damage to oroville dam (where I use to fish at the base of, and dove hunt nearby) nothing was done to fix it for years because dams have been low priority for decades especially with this administration. In fact they have been tearing down dams. Like matilija in ojai.

We have not built a reservoir in decades. We havenít built a power plant in decades. In fact weíve been decertifying power plants instead of permitting new ones. Like San onofre.

Rather than building watersheds we instead unleash billions of gallons into the delta to save a smelt. Farmers are facing ruin. Poverty and unemployment in places Selma and Fresno is epidemic while a short drive away multimillion dollar studio loft homes in complexes surrounded by armed guards enjoy lifestyles that would make the Bourbonís jealous.

As I mentioned, 1 in 5 kalifornians live in poverty, a condition exacerbated by energy and housing policies which drive up the cost of everything. Millions more live in the edge every day.

The state puts its priorities into welcoming millions of immigrants who have little education and job skills, who put tremendous strain in the public service systems, and who have neither the ability nor desire to assimilate and become citizens. And perform the menial tasks for the wealthy and do the dirty work of low paying backbreaking work in what amounts to a caste system.

Odd isnít it that the enlightened liberal gentry see no hypocrisy in their multicultural tolerances while at the same time ensconced in their private estates protected form the hoi polloi, unaffected by the very policies they so promulgate. Odd isnít it that the luxuries of environmental paradise and no offshore drilling come at the very cost of those most susceptible to the consequences and costs.

Now, many of us here see the writing on the wall. Do we no longer enjoy trial by jury? Of course we do. Do we no longer enjoy freedom of religion? Well, Iím not a baker but I assume itís still fairly protected.

However, businesses are fleeing as are middle and lower income families. It is true that kalifornia has much to offer many firms. So does Texas. As Kansas discovered, it takes much more than low taxes. Taxes are but one of many factors. Low, in fact no, income taxes serves Texas well. They figured out how to keep expenditures low. Texas, in case youíre wondering, has roughly the same per capita gdp as does kalifornia. Kansas is much lower, a result of many factors. Kansas also has much higher spending per capita, this a budget shortfall. And it has less in terms of workforce, and other amenities that facilitate business growth. Itís just the way it is.

Using kansasí short term experiment is false equivalency. Itís comparing apples to oranges. And itís considering only one of many factors. Kansas wasnít a great business locale before, and its tax cuts put it on par with other regions, not at a comparative advantage. (Yes, I do my homework).

The truer comparison is kalfiornia to Texas or Florida or other states similar.

Kalifornia has an onerous coastal commission. And lots of other things that make it inhospitable to businesses. Kalifornia is also blessed with the largest port in the US and by default is the entry point for hundreds of billions in trade. Is that good policy or dumb luck that as the Asian markets have boomed kalifornia has reaped rewards?

We see the writing on the wall in population and demographic shifts and changes. The state went 2:1 for the hildebeast. Thereís literally no opposition to the rampant attacks on the liberties of the people. Thatís what we see. Weíre not the first nor the last. We feel the particularly perniciousness of the gun laws, but ask a farmer of rancher or homeowner on the coast, or business trying to deal with paperwork how friendly kalifornia is to them.

Or look at he trends which point in the wrong direction. I get it, that part of the allure of the state is unlike anywhere else. I drove across a large part of free America this summer. I got caught in a thunderstorm in Omaha and thought I was going to die. Scared the holy hell out of me. They took it in stride. Oh well, it comes and passes. But me??? Thought the apocalypse arrived.

However it was also an amazing trip to parts of the country and was tremendously eye opening. Itís a different world. You give some you get some. Some things maybe you canít give up. Fine.

The thing is more and more this state is inhospitable to anything resembling concerns for liberty. And thatís what a lot of us see. Itís not the immediate, itís the continual and downward trends. What do think weíll look like in another 20 years, with a more bifurcated society? We have a growing underclass and insulated upper class, growing more so each year. I see a bleaker future for my kids and a state whose values that are promulgated by it are completely at odds with mine.

Maybe Iím not a gun owning liberal, er, leftist. There are some. Fine. Rights are for everyone. No argument. But can we honestly say the state is heading in a positive direction? The answer is unequivocally no. Neither economically nor politically.

Weíve been living off the ďCalifornia dreamĒ for a long time. It doesnít last forever. How much longer will our roads last? How much longer will the budget hold when the unfunded mandates come due? How much longer will the state function with a large underclass that demands largesse and an insulated and protected upper elite dictating policy to their benefit? Brownís quick and expedient fixes are a legacy, the piper will come calling for later.

So that is the problem. Some look out their window and see the sunshine. Some look off to the distance and see a storm.
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-05-2017, 1:20 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Damn Tapatalk!!! This new IOS upgrade screws things up!!
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-05-2017, 1:44 PM
rm1911's Avatar
rm1911 rm1911 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Soviet Socialist Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 3,356
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

This part got cut off.

I grew up in pat browns California. My kids are growing up in Jerry browns California.

Pat brown left us roads, free ways, aqueducts, a business climate that encourages and attracted entrepreneurs, a tiered university system that was the envy of the world, and the infrastructure and government to produce record growth economically and population.

His son is doing his level best to destroy all of that. We donít build dams, we tear them down. We donít build roads, we let them fall into disrepair. We donít permit new electricity plants, we decertify others.

We tear down matilija dam and let oroville crumble. We turn off san indirect while building bird killing propellers and plane blind glass houses in the desert. The altamont pass is a tribute to stupidity not ingenuity.

We have turned the universities from professional class creating educational centers into indoctrination centers. Our public schools have become child care centers where teacher unions have more control than parents. Our roads are crumbling yet we build multi billion dollar high speed choo choos from a place nobody wants to be to a place nobody wants to go.

We refuse to build watersheds and instead release billions of gallons of water into the sets to protect a smelt.

We drive millions into poverty to enact policies which provide luxuries for the wealthy while driving businesses out of the state with endless paperwork, taxes, and costs.

Kansas isnít the proper comparison because it wasnít a great business destination to begin with. Yet Texas, which has zero income tax, is a business Mecca. Texas has a lot to offer businesses, in addition to low taxes. Taxes are but one of many factors.

Texas has learned to constrain spending, Kansas didnít. Thus Kansas suffers while texas flourishes. Texasí per capita gap is about equal to kaliforniaís. Kansasí isnít even close. That ought to tell you something.

California has alot to offer for sure. I donít argue that. However how much of kaliforniaís success is due to good policy or plain dumb luck, seeing as it has the largest port in America astride a rapidly growing pacific rim economic boom.

But how long can kalifornia persist with its current policy trajectory? When those unfunded mandates and failing schools and infrastructure all collide?

We import millions of unskilled uneducated people to provide the underclass for the wealthy to perpetuate their lifestyle. They remain almost under the radar, outside the law, outside purview as the wealthy stay ensconced in their gated armed security patrolled enclaves.

Kalifornia is becoming a bifurcated society, a large and growing underclass, never able to realize the California dream, while being laid off ransom like to maintain this caste system. The wealthy grow more so each year, the poor more so and more numerous each year. What of the middle, those neither rich enough to enjoy nor poor enough to complain and seek regress?

How odd it is that the left, comfortable in their lives promote policies which so inflict misery on those they claim to champion. And how odd it is that the multicultural tolerant and cosmopolitan left are so quick to send their children off to private schools, seek private tutoring, ensuring their permanent upper class status, while condemning the he poor and whatís left of the middle to underperforming public schools. All the while praising the public schools as models of virtue and benevolence.

The tide has turned in this state. Itís like in the great gatsby, you go broke gradually then suddenly. The smart people see the gradual.
__________________
NRA Life Member since 1990

They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-05-2017, 7:22 PM
-hanko's Avatar
-hanko -hanko is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bay Area & SW Idaho
Posts: 10,241
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redpenny View Post
rm1911, no disrespect intended at all to you sir, it is easy to feel your anger and frustration. But places change and you still have the freedom to choose whether to live here or not, that will never change. . Just FTR, I am a native born Californian and raised here and, except for college, have never lived in another state.

So that begs the question, why do you stay? I stay because it is my greatest opportunity to give my family the best in life. Guns are awesome, I think that every time I open my safe. But the enjoyment or security I get from firearms pales in contrast to providing for my family. There is no place in the country that I could make more money doing what I do other than here. I am trying to ensure the future for my family for many generations and I am not dumb enough to jeopardize that and move somewhere else just because my state throws some restrictions on my weapons of choice. The last time I checked all of them still go bang and would dust any bad guy stupid enough to enter my home. And despite the frequent doom and gloom around here I don't see CA overturning 2A all by themselves. Not that they wouldn't want to.....

I would say to anyone, stay if you like, go if you must. But decrying change is like trying to stop the weather. Good luck with that!
Looks as if the tea kettle is on a stove fueled by stacks of $100 bills.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1911 View Post
Wow, talk about Stockholm syndrome. Geez.
Not only Stockholm. Sounds about like all of Scandinavia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Yet another Pollyanna anti posing as a gun owner here on Calguns.

Getting quite a crowd of them.
That brings to mind the old saw about being either part of the problem or part of the solution.

OP did a sweet job clarifying his position. Glad I left in the mid-1980s and even happier I don't tend to worship the almighty dollar. That said, I'm grateful still for California real estate appreciation and that when I visit California I can get the hell out when I want.
__________________
"Tactical" is like boobs...you can sell anything with it....arf
I see the gulf of Mexico
As tiny as a tear
The coast of California
Must be somewhere over here, over here
Greatful Dead
ďHeaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.Ē
Mark Twain

Last edited by -hanko; 10-05-2017 at 7:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:11 PM
Redpenny Redpenny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

rm, thank you for the thoughtful and well written post, your scholarship shows.

I too grew up in Pat Brown's California much to my mothers delight and my fathers chagrin. And from the time I was 13 until I was 21 Ronald Reagan's two terms as governor shaped the political thinking of my younger self that is still with me today.

I can clearly see all of your points and while I don't disagree with many of them I do not see the situation being quite as dire as you portray them. California is unique in many ways some of which are accidents of geography which is also true of the United States in many ways. It is the uniqueness of the state and the people that I meet and work with every day that keeps me here.

I still believe that this will be a great place to live in the future. But if all that you mention comes to pass then being a thinking person I will have to leave. That would sadden me greatly but would certainly not hesitate to leave if the advantages to staying disappear.

We also own land in Maine that has been in my wife's family since the early 1900's. When we go back in the summer my brother in law and I drive while the girls fly. And I agree that this country is full of amazing people but I also see every ill in the states we pass through that you see here. I sometimes feel it is the country as a whole that is headed in the wrong direction and it seems to be becoming even more dysfunctional. My hopes that holding the legislative and executive branches would produce some real results fade by the day.

I cannot yet see the picture as bleak as you do. You may very well be right in the long run, that would be a tragic end to a place that held such promise.

Thank you again for the post. I am constantly aware that there are many quality individuals in this forum, educated and informed. And for that I am grateful.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:16 PM
southernsnowshoe southernsnowshoe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ramona, CA
Posts: 276
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Yet another Pollyanna anti posing as a gun owner here on Calguns.

Getting quite a crowd of them.

You speak the truth my friend.

It has become painfully obvious that the Brady people have infiltrated this forum, both the membership and the moderators.

They are easy to spot, they write crap like this.

"Oh its not so bad in California, we have beautiful beaches and nice weather. Of course I support the 2nd amendment, I like to shoot my single shot .22 rifle. IT"S AWESOME!!! who really needs anything else? I love the brilliant Democrats that that allow me to hold on to a portion of my income, until they figure out how to steal more of it. So what if California cares more about illegal aliens than it does American citizens? Jerry Brown and Kevin DeLeon have our best interests at heart, we need more of their type of leadership"

I wish for my childrens sake we could avoid a violent armed insurrection to restore the constitution and get our freedoms back, but alas I guess thats why we were given the 2nd amendment in the first place. Our forefathers had their time and unfortunately I think we will have our time soon as well.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-06-2017, 2:10 PM
oddball oddball is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: East of the Tunnel, soon East of the State
Posts: 1,120
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Add to the woes, Moonbeam passed AB 54, CA is now a Sanctuary State. He also signed a bunch of other bills limiting ICE, giving more power to DACA students, preventing landlords to use illegal immigration against tenants, etc.

Can't wait to see what Newsom will sign when he becomes governor, but I'll be long gone by then
__________________
_______________


"There is no hell. There is only France"- Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:57 AM
ja308 ja308 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,924
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball View Post
Add to the woes, Moonbeam passed AB 54, CA is now a Sanctuary State. He also signed a bunch of other bills limiting ICE, giving more power to DACA students, preventing landlords to use illegal immigration against tenants, etc.

Can't wait to see what Newsom will sign when he becomes governor, but I'll be long gone by then
You may want to stick around to see what the President will do with these outlaw California politicians!

I do hope DOJ files charges if that's possibile !
__________________
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
Ayn Rand
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:42 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.