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Old 10-06-2017, 7:28 AM
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Default Sola scriptura

Can someone explain to me why one should believe this doctrine.
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Old 10-06-2017, 7:35 AM
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In short, the Scriptures are inerrant and infallible. Men on the other hand are very error prone and very fallible. Therefore, the words and doctrines of men are wrought full of errors and should not be completely trusted. I'm not saying men are always wrong. I'm just saying they are quite capable of being wrong and the Scriptures are not. So, one should be very careful when trusting the traditions of men. One does not have to worry about trusting the Word of God.
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Old 10-06-2017, 7:46 AM
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I have been searching the Bible and have been unable to find this doctrine. Can someone point me to the verse(s) that instruct on this doctrine?
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Old 10-06-2017, 9:16 AM
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Acts 17:11
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

The Bereans would not take the word of a man at face value. the searched the scriptures for validation and if it wan't there then they didn't believe it. I'm sure others will chime in. The Scriptures used to define this Doctrine are contained in Chapter 1 of the Westminster Confession of Faith.
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Old 10-06-2017, 9:58 AM
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I have been really digging into this of late. The scriptures being referred to here (Acts 17:11) by first century Christians is the Septuagint. The Bible, as it exists today (New Testament), did not come together until almost 400 A.D.

That being said, I am still looking for those passages.

Last edited by DTENG; 10-06-2017 at 10:16 AM..
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:26 AM
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Correct. That's all they had in those days. What makes them inaccurate? Or why would they not be regarded as Sola Scripture since they are part of the scriptura? Why aren't they the passages you're looking for?
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:29 AM
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Okay, I have found a couple of passages that actually contradict Sola scriptura.

The first is 2 Thessalonians 2:14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle (letter).

The second is 1 Timothy 3:16 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Hmm, I need to keep digging.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
Correct. That's all they had in those days. What makes them inaccurate? Or why would they not be regarded as Sola Scripture since they are part of the scriptura? Why aren't they the passages you're looking for?
These men were all Jewish. They are referring to the Old Testament. The New Testament did not exist yet. As a matter of fact, it seems they are receiving Christian teaching by mouth (since the New Testament did not exist) and confirming what is being said by looking at the Old Testament.

I am studying the history of the Church. I don't think I can ignore the history of the Church when studying scripture.

I always accepted the doctrine of Sola scriptura, but as I study Church history and scripture more closely I am finding problems.

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Old 10-06-2017, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DTENG View Post
I always accepted the doctrine of Sola scriptura, but as I study Church history and scripture more closely I am finding problems.
There are no problems with the Bible:

John 10:35 (KJV)
"...and the scripture cannot be broken;" -Jesus

2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Paul amongst others, was a Holy man chosen by God. He taught, rebuked and corrected others righteously:

Acts 9:15-16 (NIV)
But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16-I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

2 Peter 1:21 (NKJV)
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Your confusion rests solely with the unrighteous will of falable men, not God:

Job 38:2 (NIV)
“Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?

1 Corinthians 2:5 (NIV)
so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God's power.
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Old 10-06-2017, 9:43 PM
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I don't think there are any problems with the Bible either. I am having a problem finding support for the doctrine of Sola scriptura. Those are all great versus, but not one of them claims Sola scriptura.
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Old 10-07-2017, 7:00 AM
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Great question / discussion. To add to what others I have written above, and I agree with, I'll add my thought! DTENG, the Bible is not written like instruction manuals and books were used to. What you'll find is that (1) the existence and authority of God is proclaimed (not argued for) throughout the Bible. It is revealed to us. (2) Jesus Christ is the "Word" of God (John 1:1-4). The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture (1 Cor. 2:1-16). Obviously, I'm not proving anything now, just pointing it out. These are full areas of theology to study! BUT, suffice it to say, the Bible reveals to us that God and His Word are one-and-the-same AND He is the ultimate (through men) author of Scripture. (3) Throughout the Bible, some local in nature, some global in nature, are proclamations of the inerrancy, sufficiency, infallibility, etc. of Scripture: Sola Scriptura. Some examples:

Deut. t4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Psalm 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.

1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

Revelation 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

(4) The writers of Scripture consistently and constantly proclaim ONLY the sufficiency of Scripture in their lives. Read ALL of Psalm 119! Read Psalm 19:7-14!

I'll leave you with the words of Moses in his last words to the Israelites right before they entered the promised land with Joshua (and Moses died). I love these words and use them often in sermons!

Dt30:8 “And you shall again obey the LORD, and observe all His commandments which I command you today. 9 “Then the LORD your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the LORD will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; 10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul. 11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

God bless,
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Old 10-07-2017, 7:54 AM
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It might be worthwhile for you to research the rules that the Jewish scribes had to follow when making copies; they are...extreme.
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Old 10-07-2017, 8:41 AM
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Neither will you find the term "Trinity" in Old or New Testament, search as you might. Similarly, Sola scripture is a theological finding predicated upon academic study and empirical data by the likes of Martin Luther and others who spent lifetimes searching out the subject. Making a serious theological inquiry on a website dedicated to gun ownership is a curiosity to me, given the many other available online venues dedicated to Biblical theology. If you are serious and have not already done so, try:
theologyforums.com
theologyonline.com
carm.org

Best success
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:47 PM
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Here is a link to 67 different articles and pod cast on Sola Scriptura.
https://www.monergism.com/search?key...=topic%3A30839
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Old 10-07-2017, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Considerizer View Post
Neither will you find the term "Trinity" in Old or New Testament, search as you might.
So true.

However there is scripture that absolutely professes the doctrine of the Trinity, without using that word “Trinity.” There are actually 3 verses that are specific to The Triune God, 4 if you count the comma Johanneum in the KJV, where many don’t:

Matthew 28:19 (NIV)
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 (NIV)
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5-There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6-There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

2 Corinthians 13:14 (NIV)
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

1 John 5:7 (KJV)
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:22 PM
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I really appreciate the responses. Looking back, however, I think I may not have been clear about my doubts. My doubt stems from the idea that the Bible alone "Sola" provides all of God's truth. This is what I cannot find in the Bible.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Bible actually seems to refute this doctrine.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:25 AM
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Well, computers are a wonderful thing when it comes to doing searches. Try as I might, I cannot find a single verse that supports the doctrine of Sola scriptura (that the Bible alone provides all of God's truth). If the Bible alone provides all of God's truth, it would have also conveyed this doctrine.

As a side note, the Bible also does not list all of the books that should be contained in the Bible??? So again, the doctrine of Sola scriptura fails.

At this point, for me, this doctrine makes no sense and is not Biblical.

That being said, a key verse that needs to be understood is 1 Timothy 3:16. It seems clear from this verse that the foundation of truth is not the Bible, but the church.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:41 AM
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2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

No mention of a Church/Priest/Pastor needed to be complete. However God did make us to be social beings so we do need fellowship (Church...).
Worship also draws use closer to him as well.

Quote:
That being said, a key verse that needs to be understood is 1 Timothy 3:16. It seems clear from this verse that the foundation of truth is not the Bible, but the church.
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I don't read this the way you do:

1 Timothy 3:14-16 14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

The word church means assembly, gathering, congregation, etc:

1577 ekklesia {ek-klay-see'-ah}
Meaning: 1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly 1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating 1b) the assembly of the Israelites 1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously 1d) in a Christian sense 1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting...

"The living God" is the pillar and ground of the truth, not Timothy's congregation or any other congregation (read Corinthians?).
The punctuation fits the English translation but does not exist in the original Greek.

Quote:
I am studying the history of the Church. I don't think I can ignore the history of the Church when studying scripture.
The Roman Church was in charge for over a thousand years. Following the work of Christ, this Should have been the most enlightened time in human history. Yet after multitudes of wars, scandals and moral hypocrisy, history generally refers to this time as The Dark Ages...

Even to this day with never ending Priest scandals and an openly socialist Pope it is obvious that there is no human Vicar of Christ. So if we are to follow scripture and tradition, what tradition are we to follow?

SG
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Old 10-22-2017, 7:27 AM
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Given all of the epistle's to all of the churches in the NT ripping them for their horrible behavior and bad doctrine, I'll take the Word of God over the word of men any day. Jesus personally attacked the Pharisee's for their made up traditions that enslaved the people. He also did not say that ,"man does not live by bread alone. But by every word that comes from the church." No, from God. The Word of God endures forever.
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Old 10-22-2017, 7:37 AM
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Gods word is true. However, written by men and translated as well by men. Things can be lost as they say in translation...

The bible is true. When king James commissioned the translations most of us are familiar with. The latin and Greek verses were interpreted by scholars as best they were capable and inspired.
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Old 10-26-2017, 3:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTENG View Post
I have been really digging into this of late. The scriptures being referred to here (Acts 17:11) by first century Christians is the Septuagint. The Bible, as it exists today (New Testament), did not come together until almost 400 A.D.

That being said, I am still looking for those passages.
I don't think you'll find them. Acts is not part of the Septuagint but you're otherwise right, the vulgate (the first complete Bible with a canon roughly matching today's, in Latin) was not finished until around 400 A.D. in the early middle ages, by St Jerome, who took the Old Latin Verses of the Gospel, revised them, and compiled them with finished translations of the Old Testament. This was commissioned by Damasus I. Besides the completion of the vulgate, I believe the first attempts at making a complete bible came in the middle of the 300s, under Constantine, with Greek translations. These books and writings obviously existed longer separately but most people did not have access to them, certainly not in the compiled form of the Bible as we know it today. Sola scriptura as a doctrine did not come until the 16th century. By my humble understanding, if the question is scripture versus tradition, then the doctrine of sola scriptura is itself a tradition. Just a much younger one than those others the rest of the Reformers wanted to revise or abolish.
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Old 10-27-2017, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DTENG View Post
I have been searching the Bible and have been unable to find this doctrine. Can someone point me to the verse(s) that instruct on this doctrine?
Have you ever seen the word "Trinity" in the bible? Yet you can see thre Trinity throughout the bible.

Here is a good expose for you to check out. It might create more questions, but it definitely should answer too

http://www.equip.org/article/a-defen...ola-scriptura/
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Old 10-28-2017, 9:12 AM
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Sola Scriptura, Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. /done.
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Old 10-28-2017, 5:42 PM
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By my humble understanding, if the question is scripture versus tradition, then the doctrine of sola scriptura is itself a tradition. Just a much younger one than those others the rest of the Reformers wanted to revise or abolish.
This ^^^ Therein lies the problem. The doctrine claims the "Bible Alone" is all that is needed, yet sola scriptura itself is a tradition and came into being after over 1,500 years of Christianity. The logic puts in mind a dog chasing its tail.
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Old 10-29-2017, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTENG View Post
This ^^^ Therein lies the problem. The doctrine claims the "Bible Alone" is all that is needed, yet sola scriptura itself is a tradition and came into being after over 1,500 years of Christianity. The logic puts in mind a dog chasing its tail.
For 1,500 years:
* Christians did not have the scriptures, only the clergy had them.
* Most people were illiterate and told what to believe.
* Only the dogmas from Rome were allowed to be taught.
* Those who challenged them were persecuted or killed. (Wycliffe, Hus, Luther, ...)

The Gutenberg printing press changed all of that.
Bibles were more accessible and the common people had a reason to learn to read.
As more people learned what the scriptures actually said, they started to mistrust the clergy.
History teaches that Sola Scriptura is absolutely the logical result.

As to whether something is tradition or not doesn't really matter, the real point is does the tradition agree with Scripture or Negate it?

There were many scripture passages quoted in this thread that support Sola Scriptura. Did you refute any of them?
Did you read my post #18 above?

How about the words of Jesus:

Quote:
Mark 7:7-9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men -- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.


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Old 10-29-2017, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelfGovernor View Post
For 1,500 years:
* Christians did not have the scriptures, only the clergy had them.
* Most people were illiterate and told what to believe.
* Only the dogmas from Rome were allowed to be taught.
* Those who challenged them were persecuted or killed. (Wycliffe, Hus, Luther, ...)

The Gutenberg printing press changed all of that.
Bibles were more accessible and the common people had a reason to learn to read.
As more people learned what the scriptures actually said, they started to mistrust the clergy.
History teaches that Sola Scriptura is absolutely the logical result.

As to weather something is tradition or not doesn't really matter, the real point is does the tradition agree with Scripture or Negate it?

There were many scripture passages quoted in this thread that support Sola Scriptura. Did you refute any of them?
Did you read my post #18 above?

How about the words of Jesus:





SG
Well said SG. If Sola Scriptura is a tradition, at least the tradition is the Bible and not the traditions of fallen men. I'm still trying to find "Pope" in my bible.
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Old 10-29-2017, 7:53 AM
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Matt. 23:9. The Greek "pater" means "father". Though technically the word "Pope" comes from the Greek "Pappas".
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Old 10-29-2017, 8:03 AM
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RAMCLAP, my comment was meant in humor, as I knew what you meant. Unfortunately I am on my phone and cannot edit my comment.
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Old 10-29-2017, 8:44 AM
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RAMCLAP, my comment was meant in humor, as I knew what you meant. Unfortunately I am on my phone and cannot edit my comment.
Sorry friend. I don't remember commenting on anything you wrote. If I offended you I apologize.
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Old 10-29-2017, 10:10 AM
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My bad. I should have said "office of Pope". Of course it says call no man Pope except your Father in Heaven.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SelfGovernor View Post
2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. SG
Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone.

With the New Testament assembled and agreed on about 392 AD, we must take along with it the traditions of the apostles, and the interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:37 PM
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I don't read this the way you do:

1 Timothy 3:14-16 14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

The word church means assembly, gathering, congregation, etc:

1577 ekklesia {ek-klay-see'-ah}
Meaning: 1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly 1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating 1b) the assembly of the Israelites 1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously 1d) in a Christian sense 1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting...

"The living God" is the pillar and ground of the truth, not Timothy's congregation or any other congregation (read Corinthians?).
The punctuation fits the English translation but does not exist in the original Greek.SG
This represents another big problem I had as a Protestant. Everyone had their own way of reading/interpreting the Bible. As a result, we have tens of thousands of Protestant sects all claiming to own the truth. It is chaos.

Christ clearly did not come to establish a book, but a church. It makes perfect sense that the church he founded would be the pillar and foundation of truth.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:43 PM
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Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone.

With the New Testament assembled and agreed on about 392 AD, we must take along with it the traditions of the apostles, and the interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.
If not for scripture how is one equipped Traditions don't equip us, the Jews proved that, and they were the chosen.

Isn't being equipped, the equivalent of putting on the Armor of God?

Quote:
Ephesians 6:10-18 (NASB)

The Armor of God

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
I am not saying throw away tradition, but don't let tradition become your idol.
It is the word that is written that will lead you in the way that you should go. Tradition is like flirting with the way of the Jews.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.................... and the Word came down to dwell with man in the flesh
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:53 PM
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This represents another big problem I had as a Protestant. Everyone had their own way of reading/interpreting the Bible. As a result, we have tens of thousands of Protestant sects all claiming to own the truth. It is chaos.

Christ clearly did not come to establish a book, but a church. It makes perfect sense that the church he founded would be the pillar and foundation of truth.
the art and science of interpreting scriptures is Hermeneutics. If applied properly there is no argument. There are not tens of thousands of sects all claiming their own truth, and it is not chaos.

This was happening in Pauls day too. here is what he has to say about sects like Catholics, Baptists, Methodists etc etc. They argued the same argument you are arguing.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 1:10-14

10 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. 18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”
Our faith is not in a denomination, but in the Living God of the universe. Paul was chastising those who were putting their faith in a denomination here. We're all one Body, do not put down your brothers and sisters in Christ because you are holding to a denomination
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:56 PM
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The Roman Church was in charge for over a thousand years. Following the work of Christ, this Should have been the most enlightened time in human history. Yet after multitudes of wars, scandals and moral hypocrisy, history generally refers to this time as The Dark Ages...

Even to this day with never ending Priest scandals and an openly socialist Pope it is obvious that there is no human Vicar of Christ. So if we are to follow scripture and tradition, what tradition are we to follow?SG
One of the twelve chosen by Christ betrayed him to death. This was a forewarning for the church he established. The Church has/had bad/evil popes and priests, just as one of the chosen twelve bad/evil.

In its 2,000+ years, the Church has not changed a teaching on faith and morals. The current Pope cannot change these teachings either. Protestantism changes its mind on faith and morals often, and there is very little the different sects can agree on.

If you want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, read something by a Catholic, not a Protestant (I can make a recommendation). It would be like learning about the Republican Party by only reading publications written by Democrats.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:03 PM
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One of the twelve chosen by Christ betrayed him to death. This was a forewarning for the church he established. The Church has/had bad/evil popes and priests, just as one of the chosen twelve bad/evil.

In its 2,000+ years, the Church has not changed a teaching on faith and morals. The current Pope cannot change these teachings either. Protestantism changes its mind on faith and morals often, and there is very little the different sects can agree on.

If you want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, read something by a Catholic, not a Protestant (I can make a recommendation). It would be like learning about the Republican Party by only reading publications written by Democrats.
What is purgatory, if not a changed or added teaching?

Why do you try to divide the church? The church is not a building or a denomination, the church is the followers of Christ. This is why reading scripture and using hermeneutics is important. the importance that you place on your denomination speaks louder than the importance you are placing on the living God, the Christ.
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:14 PM
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I really appreciate the responses. Looking back, however, I think I may not have been clear about my doubts. My doubt stems from the idea that the Bible alone "Sola" provides all of God's truth. This is what I cannot find in the Bible.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Bible actually seems to refute this doctrine.
I might add that not only did all the patriarchs of Christianity constantly point to His words, The Christ, Jesus did the same. They refuted everything with scripture. Jesus knocked the jews for following their traditions and neglecting His words, in almost every confrontation.

Peter puts it like this

Quote:
1 Peter 3:15-

13Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good? 14But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.
Our response to this should be how? How do we defend the truth? The only way I know to defend it is by knowing his words, and being able to use them just like all the Patriarchs and Christ Himself. He set the example for us all. If you don't know the absolutes contained in scripture, how can you defend what you know to be true, in gentleness and kindness?
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.

Last edited by colossians323; 10-30-2017 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:55 PM
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Have you ever seen the word "Trinity" in the bible? Yet you can see thre Trinity throughout the bible.

Here is a good expose for you to check out. It might create more questions, but it definitely should answer too

http://www.equip.org/article/a-defen...ola-scriptura/
The doctrine of the Trinity was firmly established by the Church at the First Council of Constantinople in 381. At this point, the New Testament had still not been compiled in its present form, but the various letters and writings that eventually made up the New Testament were still being debated.

I tried to read the article that you referenced, but the writer lost me when he wrote "Jesus and the apostles constantly appealed to the Bible as the final court of appeal." No, the Bible in its current state did not exist. When Jesus and the apostles refer to scripture, they are referring to the Tanakh (translated to the Septuagint). Additionally, the Jewish faith does not teach or believe sola scriptura with reference to the Tanakh. They have both the Tanakh and oral tradition.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:09 AM
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Our response to this should be how? How do we defend the truth? The only way I know to defend it is by knowing his words, and being able to use them just like all the Patriarchs and Christ Himself. He set the example for us all. If you don't know the absolutes contained in scripture, how can you defend what you know to be true, in gentleness and kindness?
This is a key point. Where do you go for the pillar and foundation of truth? Protestants quote the Bible today and come up with different truths regarding birth control, abortion, homosexuality, female pastors, divorce, children out of wedlock, and the list goes on and on.

What authority do you have to say that your interpretation of the Bible is the truth and someone else is in error?

Did you know until 1930 all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At its 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, swayed by growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances. Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:24 AM
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What is purgatory, if not a changed or added teaching?

Why do you try to divide the church? The church is not a building or a denomination, the church is the followers of Christ. This is why reading scripture and using hermeneutics is important. the importance that you place on your denomination speaks louder than the importance you are placing on the living God, the Christ.
Purgatory has been believed by the Church since its beginnings. It has not changed or been added.

The divide started with Martin Luther 500 years ago and continues to get worse today. The road is narrow.
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