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  #121  
Old 10-04-2017, 9:00 AM
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Let her try a Buckmark or a Ruger Mark series pistol. While heavy, they are easy to rack. And those 5.5" barrel will help that .22lr to get some respectable velocity/killing power.
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  #122  
Old 10-04-2017, 9:08 AM
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I didn't read the whole thread, but many women I know have gone from other handguns to the Sig P238 simply for the ease of racking. It's the easiest they've found to rack.

But it has a manual safety. So you mother will have to train a lot more to make disengaging the safety a reflex under pressure.

And as the poster above me mentioned, a .22 pistol is easy to rack and shoot. It's also better than nothing. If your mother is tiny, the Walther P22 might fit her perfectly. Read the P22 Bible online if her's isn't 100% reliable out of the box. It'll help you make it 100%. Mine was 100% out of the box.
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  #123  
Old 10-04-2017, 9:14 AM
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Some semi autos are more difficult than others to rack the slide with a full mag inserted. HK's are among the easiest from my experience.

Revolvers may be a user friendly option, but the limited capacity and inability to mount a weapon light out weigh the ease of use for me to consider one.

Also, you mentioned she has 2 dogs but a trained personal protection dog is a huge force multiplier for home defense. I know of a very well respected and knowledgeable breeder in SD selling a young 1.5 year old male GSD that's being trained for personal protection. I've seen that dog in person and he's very impressive. Shoot me a PM if you want more info on him.
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  #124  
Old 10-04-2017, 4:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthippus View Post
I said it before, but I do appreciate the tips and advice.

I stayed with my mom, niece, and sister last night. Spoke with my mom. I convinced her that she really needs two guns, not just "one that does everything okay" (as she was hoping). I proposed the idea of a 20ga shotgun for home defense, and she actually (to my surprise) liked that. My mom and dad divorced when I was a kid, but my dad taught her how to handle a shotgun and she enjoyed it (but has not shot since then).

As for the S&W Shield she has trouble racking, she actually wants to keep it and continue to work with it. She felt embarrassed and frustrated that she was having so much trouble in a moment of panic to rack the slide. I actually offered to give her my CZ Rami, as that is her favorite handgun to handle, and having put a few thousand rounds through it, it is thoroughly broken in and easy to rack the slide. It has been my EDC but I'm going to renew my CCW with the CZ PCR instead (thinner profile, better trigger, lighter alloy frame). She refused, said she was determined to train with the S&W Shield.

Whether or not I'm a fool, I purchased the Stainless Steel guide rod and recoil spring for her Shield. Reports online are that it actually does make it a lot easier to rack the slide, and it locks back on empty reliably. The caveat to this is that +P ammo is out. She doesn't even know what that is, so that's of no concern.

Thanks everyone for the help.
Good to hear. Sounds like the threat strengthened her desire to train, rather than discouraging.

Might also try the Aguila mini shells in a 12 ga. Light recoil, increased capacity. Needs an adapter for the shorter length. Like Clint Smith says, handguns put a hole in you, rifles put a hole through you, and shotguns remove a hunk of s**t and drop it on the floor. You can really take the fight out of someone that may otherwise push through non-incapacitating wounds. Important when you have no other means of escape.

If she does end up adding a shotgun, get a good weapon light since you can't typically hold a flashlight and a shotgun at once.
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  #125  
Old 10-04-2017, 5:23 PM
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Ok folks, prepare to engage flame...

Perhaps a Stoeger Double Defense in 20 ga? Should have manageable recoil. Easy to load and operate. Rail for WML. And, yes, limited to two rounds, but, mom isn't likely to be going full bore howler monkey tactical ninja either. Just a thought.


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  #126  
Old 10-04-2017, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Have you thought about getting her a gun with a magazine safety? Have a round chambered, pop out the magazine and have her put the to together when needed, have the magazine stored somewhere else when not needed.



Just another way to skin the cat so to speak.



Dan


Man, I love this idea! In general I HATE a mag disconnect safety and vowed to never own another gun with one, but this is just the ticket for a person who has trouble racking a slide and is not fond of a revolver’s long DA pull. I may just have to get my wife a CA Shield, or better yet, a 3913!


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  #127  
Old 10-04-2017, 5:42 PM
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out of all my pistols, the Glock 19 is the easiest to chamber a round in. Might want to get her one or take her shooting at a range and have her try it out.
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  #128  
Old 10-04-2017, 6:12 PM
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I know there's 3 pages of answers but I just wanted to chime in, get her a glock 19 or a glock 17 and they make slide racker endplates. It'll be much easier for her with a big ol handle hanging off the back

Also, you can teach her to put the rear sight on the corner of the nightstand, grab the shield with both hands and lean on it to use her bodyweight to pull the slide back. You don't always have to use your hands, improvise.
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  #129  
Old 10-04-2017, 8:57 PM
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This would probably help her a lot: https://www.amazon.com/TacRack-SHIEL.../dp/B00ZGT1TX2


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  #130  
Old 10-05-2017, 1:18 AM
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revolver
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  #131  
Old 10-05-2017, 1:49 AM
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You buy a big house, you and mom sell current homes.

You, mom, nieces, whatever, live together, and you get tons of awesome food cooked by awesome mom.

Problem solved.
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  #132  
Old 10-05-2017, 7:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreWeFree View Post
You buy a big house, you and mom sell current homes.

You, mom, nieces, whatever, live together, and you get tons of awesome food cooked by awesome mom.

ONE Problem solved.....14 new ones created

Fixed it for you
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  #133  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleA View Post
Ok folks, prepare to engage flame...

Perhaps a Stoeger Double Defense in 20 ga? Should have manageable recoil. Easy to load and operate. Rail for WML. And, yes, limited to two rounds, but, mom isn't likely to be going full bore howler monkey tactical ninja either. Just a thought.


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If you're going to go shotgun, get an autoloader. Very soft recoil even in 12 gauge. The bolt handles are big and easy to rack.
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  #134  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:41 AM
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While I like and have a M&P Shield 9mm, the slide feels way stiffer than my Springfield XD .40 and Glock 22. Maybe a revolver would be better for her?

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  #135  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:55 PM
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Someone beat me to the post, on the first page a calgunner suggested a tip up barrel beretta in 380. This is the way to go for people with hand strength problems. I also highly recommend a 20 gauge shotgun or 4-6" revolver, in .38 or .44 special. Whatever she settles on, make sure your mom practices the manual of arms and can load and unload easily and safely. And I think your story illustrates the difficulty of small motor functions when under adrenaline and fear, especially if disoriented from being awakened. Ideally the gun should be loaded and ready to go, there are certain safes mentioned above that can help balance safety with the children around and proper security. I would also suggest adding security lights and cameras if you don't have any currently. If the same perps come back and notice enhanced security, they might be dissuaded for good. Not much you can do to harden a sliding glass door but if your moms house has any unlocked gates or fences on the way to the sliding glass door, see if you can padlock those as well
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  #136  
Old 10-05-2017, 2:21 PM
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The first thing is to try to avoid the situation. Locks on the side gates to make it harder for someone to get to the back. Motion sensor lights set so that cats, etc. won't set them off. All 4 sides of the house should have them. Motion detect security cameras all around as well.

You can also install security gates which can only be opened from the inside, which needs to be easy in case of fire.

If you install an enclosed patio, it can be alarmed to give more time.
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  #137  
Old 10-05-2017, 2:55 PM
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Sig p225, should have a small enough grip to be comfy for small hands, fairly light weight, but still be easier to rack the slide like most full size guns and very soft recoil impulse. Not to mention the option of a light smooth DA pull or even lighter SA pull and ability to decock, without the worry of having to manipulate a safety.
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  #138  
Old 10-05-2017, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
If she can't rack a slide, she can't pull a double action revolver trigger.

There's a thread like this every month, and every month I recco the same thing - a Beretta 86 or the like with a tilt-up barrel. It's a .380, not a 9mm, but that's still quite a dissuader to a burglar.

That's not true.. totally different set of muscles..

Anyways, my mom had a Walther PPK in Texas.. I took that and gave her a much simpler to use Ruger revolver.. she was able to easily pull the trigger and work the hammer whereas she couldn't rack the slide on the Walther.
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  #139  
Old 10-05-2017, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
If she can't rack a slide, she can't pull a double action revolver trigger.

There's a thread like this every month, and every month I recco the same thing - a Beretta 86 or the like with a tilt-up barrel. It's a .380, not a 9mm, but that's still quite a dissuader to a burglar.

I like your suggestion, because I had a model 86. Sweet gun, but because of the action, the Cheetah models all kick too much.......for the intended user in this thread.

My recommendation would be a Sig P-238. Also a .380 instead of a 9, but has a safety, and the slide racks like butter. Minimal kick as well. My wife tried a number of guns, and the P-238 is the only one she feels at one with. Her Ruger LCR in .38 kicked too much, and the trigger was too long and firm.
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  #140  
Old 10-05-2017, 3:56 PM
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Buy her one of these:

http://www.handi-racker.com/
Simple / easy to use...
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  #141  
Old 10-05-2017, 5:47 PM
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I wouldnt change her pistol if she is accurate with it. The slide will loosen up after 500-600 rounds through it. So either take her to the range more often or barrow the pistol and you shoot the hell out of it till it loosens up. Also, get a quick access pistol safe for her nightstand
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  #142  
Old 10-05-2017, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthippus View Post
I just received a call. My mom, who lives in a very nice neighborhood in Temecula (the Harveston neighborhood), owns a home. At about 2am, her alarm sounded and then she heard breaking glass. The dogs (who sleep in her room, 1 big but old Boxer and 1 little guy, don't know his breed) began to growl and bark. My oldest niece (7 years) and sister also live there. My niece knew something was wrong and was crying.

My mom went for her M&P Shield in 9mm, and as there are children in the house, doesn't leave a round in the chamber. As much training as I've given to her (I'm the only man in the family.... 4 nieces, 3 sisters, 1 mom, 4 aunts... etc), she could not, in the moment, rack the slide. She pulled and pulled, even pushed (pushing the receiver forward as she holds the slide)... and it would not seat a round. Before I get "well she better hit the gym" comments, she's 61. She's a feminine woman. She's not a gun gal. It's just not her thing. She only trains when I take her (I don't think she'll ever be 100% comfortable with a firearm). She just has a gun for self-defense.

She put the gun down and called 911 (police were actually already on their way, via the alarm system). Fortunately, the would-be home invaders got discouraged by the alarm, the dogs, and whatever else. They busted the back sliding glass door but apparently didn't enter, and ran off.

TL.DR - the status quo is unacceptable. As a responsible and loving son, how do I remedy this? Get her a revolver? She doesn't like .38, prefers the 9mm. I'm thinking the Ruger LCR9 (revolver in 9mm). I live about two hours away, and I can't always rush to any sort of rescue (much as I've tried most of my life). And I'm also a very busy guy, I manage a sales office, just moved, am getting married in two weeks.... I only have two hands and two feet, only so much I can do.

Can I get some opinions? Racking the slide has always been hard for her, no matter how many times I've had her do it to get muscle memory down.
Revolver is your solution and I hate revolvers.
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  #143  
Old 10-05-2017, 6:02 PM
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I carry a Shield and sometimes I feel like an old(er) lady trying to rack it. A revolver is a good choice. A double action trigger is easier to pull than a Shield is to rack.

Having to rack a semi-auto is a bad idea for someone who doesn't handle guns. New and inexperienced shooter tend to point them the wrong way (including towards themselves) when racking. You don't want her shooting one of the dogs or herself.
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  #144  
Old 10-05-2017, 7:45 PM
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I always recommend the 10 shot .22 cal revolver for this situation. A .22lr will kill someone. Once you start firing off rounds, 99.99% of criminals will scram. They are looking for easy targets and easy pray. When the hear the sound of gun fire, they will get the hell out of dodge. Another good alternative is a good ol' fashion side by side shotgun. Huge bang with a large spread. Just make sure she is not aiming near your nieces i guess.
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  #145  
Old 10-05-2017, 8:12 PM
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My 20 guage Escort Magnum semi automatic shot gun with Federal HD 04 shot has an easy rack handle, never jams and is a cream puff to shoot. $412 on sale at Big 5.
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  #146  
Old 10-05-2017, 8:56 PM
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Firstly, glad everyone is okay.

I have a Shield. The slide is noticeably hard to rack, compared to just about any other pistol I've tried. My HK USP is the easiest, by far. If a Shield is the only pistol small enough for her to grip, sell the current one and get one with a thumb safety. Even under stress it's not difficult to flick the safety off, just something to remember by training. If she can shoot something bigger, get a full size handgun for home defense.

If you set her up with a chambered round and magazine removed, inserting a loaded magazine is difficult with the slide in battery. I've had horrible pinches on my strong hand because the grip is so short. That's the last thing you want to deal with in that situation. Keeping the same type of gun and integrating a thumb safety is the best option, I believe.
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  #147  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:00 PM
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Xanth.

I feel for you. I really, really do. It's not an easy situation.

I have a beloved wife of 13 years. We don't have kids. I have two Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers who sleep with my wife when I'm on the road - which covers 40 flights a year. The dogs sleep with her...and they are not shy barking when things are off. They aren't guard dogs by any means. But they will bark and my Boy has a flat nasty bark that will make you think he's got another 100#'s on him the he does.

Oh, and the XD9 9mm in the bed-stand has a round chambered, Hydro's. Spare mag next to it along with a CR123 Surefire.

I know better, unless the adrenaline is flowing my wife isn't going to rack a slide. 10 rounds better be enough...and I do expect half of them to be in the roof.

My wife also has an S&W 640 hump-back loaded with 158gr. .38 Special Black Talons (no, seriously) in her home office desk. I know she can pull a DA trigger - we've been to the range enough times. Still, it's a 12# trigger. I've measured it. I can get it down to around 9# safely, maybe 8...

either way, it's at the limit of what she can manage. I know this.

So, please take this to heart...

Get a bigger ****ing dog.

And an alarm system.

You mentioned a 7 year old niece - truly, that's NEVER conducive to a child around. I don't care how smart or responsible she is, you cannot win that battle.

BIG dog. Alarm.

Give bad guys a reason to go somewhere else and let them.
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  #148  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:09 PM
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The Shield is hard to rack because of the stupid 2 spring design. The Stainless Steel spring is one spring and doesn't compress the same and/or sometimes bind up like the original. Also, you can run +P in the Shield with the spring, if you really need to, but it's not recommended. If you shoot someone with four or five rounds +P, it won't hurt the gun. We just use regular 9mm, Speer Gold Dot 124 gr.
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  #149  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:13 PM
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https://www.tandemkross.com/halo-Cha...ark_p_200.html

They might make something like this for the shield


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  #150  
Old 10-06-2017, 9:15 AM
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Get training or get a revolver and keep it loaded
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  #151  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreWeFree View Post
You buy a big house, you and mom sell current homes.

You, mom, nieces, whatever, live together, and you get tons of awesome food cooked by awesome mom.

Problem solved.
Those houses with the in-law suites are sweet.
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It's OT - with enough time, they all become tranny threads.
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  #152  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:47 AM
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OP, get your Mom an XD9. That slide is easy to rack.

On the non-firearm front...

Time to get security cam system and RING doorbells.
Time to get 3M security film for the sliding glass door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96x2tO9Xuxw
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It's OT - with enough time, they all become tranny threads.
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  #153  
Old 10-06-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarBoyNux View Post
Those houses with the in-law suites are sweet.
Lennar home builders.
They are indeed very nice. There is an adjoining door so she can join the family, but they have their own separate entrance and front porch, and most have a 2nd "half" garage that is large enough for a small car, though some only have a small bay in the main garage that is only large enough for those electric golf cart type cars.

And Lennar build quality is a big step above KB... KB can't even make their models look nice with cheap hardware store wire basket shelves in the closets that aren't even level or secure.
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  #154  
Old 10-06-2017, 1:10 PM
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A couple people have mentioned your mother might have issues pulling a DA trigger on a revolver, but that is an easy fix as well. Just teach her how to fire the gun single action style by pulling the hammer to the rear. While it may not be the technical right way to do things, it sure as hell beats not being able to fire at all. I think overall, as others have said, a good ole fashioned .38 revolver (or potentially smaller caliber) would be the safest bet.

On the long gun front IDK if id recommend a shotgun either. Shotguns can be somewhat finnicky in their own ways. If she doesnt practice with the guns enough people can cause issues by short stroking pump actions.

On the rifle front what about a pistol caliber carbine? Something like a Keltec Sub2k or a just right? Could even look at a ruger 10/22.
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  #155  
Old 10-06-2017, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
... loosen up after 500-600 rounds through it. So either take her to the range more often ...
You know how long for the 'average' 60 year old woman to put even 50 rounds down range? Some people should wake up. Grandma really does not want to shoot anybody.
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  #156  
Old 10-06-2017, 2:32 PM
Jay-lee Jay-lee is offline
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I took my Grandma to the range to find a bedside gun for her. She's shot a lot of my semi auto pistols in .45, 9mm and .380. She feels a little comfortable operating a semi auto but in a bind she agreed that it would be easier to shoot a revolver.

We tested the alloy J framed .38s and they had a lot of felt recoil but the double action trigger is an easy enough pull. She really liked the S&W 686 in .38 spcl because the weight reduced a lot of the recoil but the trigger is heavier and kind of gritty. We settled on the model 64 S&W 4'' for a nice happy medium. Holds 6 rounds and has a fairly crisp double action pull. The weight of it made the recoil very manageable. My vote would be a steel revolver from S&W.

TLDR: My 75 year old grandma liked the steel framed .38s with 4'' barrels.
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  #157  
Old 10-06-2017, 3:10 PM
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Ranger20 Ranger20 is offline
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Take a look here...
A woman's perspective on home protection and CCW
Lots of great articles and Ideas.

https://www.corneredcat.com/

https://www.corneredcat.com/contents/
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  #158  
Old 10-06-2017, 8:00 PM
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Socalman Socalman is offline
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Sometimes the problem some older people can have with racking the slide is due to arthritis. You can always have springs changed on triggers for a revolver.

If she is not a person who will train at least once every couple of months I would highly encourage a DA revolver, have the trigger worked to make it easy to handle. I would say .38spl is a good round and will certainly get the job done 95% of the time. Heck, I am considering a 22 magnum for my wife.
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  #159  
Old 10-07-2017, 1:14 PM
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navydad2010 navydad2010 is offline
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Glad the Family is ok...lady friend "of a certain age" couldn't rack ANY of my semi-autos except a little LC-380 with laser I had bought on sale even tho I didn't really need it.....now Mom is a different story, she couldn't rack a slide OR pull DA so, Bought a spring kit from Wolffe and polished up the internals for the SP101 and BINGO! Mom is a very good shot BTW..
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Old 10-07-2017, 1:47 PM
AKexpat AKexpat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydad2010 View Post
Bought a spring kit from Wolffe and polished up the internals for the SP101 and BINGO! Mom is a very good shot.
I did the same for my wife (64) and it is so much better than the factory works. Also bought a Hogue Monogrip because the factory grips were so small.

She likes it very much. It is loaded with .38 Special Federal Hydra-Shok 129 grain +P HP ammo. (I am old school).



The pic shows .357 Mag ammo. She never liked it. Too much for her.

Jim
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