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  #1  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:53 PM
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Default Specifics regarding buying ammo

Looking for clarification regarding buying ammo in 2018. The end of 2017 is coming quickly and if what I understand is true, need to start buying ammo now.

As I understand, effective on Jan 1, 2018:

- No more on-line ammo sales for delivery anywhere in California. Cabela's, SG Ammo, Brownell's etc will be prohibited by law to ship ammo to a California address.
- Need to register/possess a certificate (similar to an FSC) to buy ammo at a LGS (if true, has the process/procedure been implemented by the state?).
- 10 day process to buy (and pick up) ammo (similar to buying a firearm).
- Can only buy 100 rounds of ammo within a 30 day period.

Am I missing anything? Are these incorrect, correct or???
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2017, 1:35 PM
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My recollection was that it was "instant" and that there was no waiting period.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2017, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwack44 View Post
Looking for clarification regarding buying ammo in 2018. The end of 2017 is coming quickly and if what I understand is true, need to start buying ammo now.

As I understand, effective on Jan 1, 2018:

- No more on-line ammo sales for delivery anywhere in California. Cabela's, SG Ammo, Brownell's etc will be prohibited by law to ship ammo to a California address.
Unless you have an FFL03 + COE

Quote:

- Need to register/possess a certificate (similar to an FSC) to buy ammo at a LGS (if true, has the process/procedure been implemented by the state?).
I believe that starts in 2019, need to check but I wont be getting one, whatever/whenever it is.

Quote:
- 10 day process to buy (and pick up) ammo (similar to buying a firearm).
- Can only buy 100 rounds of ammo within a 30 day period.
Neither of these are correct. The check is supposed to be instant (funny how they can't do that for guns), and there are no limitations on quantity.

Quote:
Am I missing anything? Are these incorrect, correct or???
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2017, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwack44 View Post
Looking for clarification regarding buying ammo in 2018. The end of 2017 is coming quickly and if what I understand is true, need to start buying ammo now.

As I understand, effective on Jan 1, 2018:

1- No more on-line ammo sales for delivery anywhere in California. Cabela's, SG Ammo, Brownell's etc will be prohibited by law to ship ammo to a California address.
2- Need to register/possess a certificate (similar to an FSC) to buy ammo at a LGS (if true, has the process/procedure been implemented by the state?).
3- 10 day process to buy (and pick up) ammo (similar to buying a firearm).
4- Can only buy 100 rounds of ammo within a 30 day period.

Am I missing anything? Are these incorrect, correct or???
1. Unless you are an exempt person...
Can not order and have shipped to your address.
Can order and have shipped to licensed ammunition vendor, who will then transfer it to you for a fee.

2. Nope. Just need valid State DL/ID.
Starting 07-01-2019, ammunition vendors need to do DROS when transferring ammo. Regulations governing this have not been released.

3. Nope.

4. Nope.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2017, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
1. Unless you are an exempt person...
Can not order and have shipped to your address.
Can order and have shipped to licensed ammunition vendor, who will then transfer it to you for a fee.

2. Nope. Just need valid State DL/ID.
Starting 07-01-2019, ammunition vendors need to do DROS when transferring ammo. Regulations governing this have not been released.

3. Nope.

4. Nope.
On #1, I assume in addition to the fee, sales tax will be collected.

On #2, it sounds like come 7/1/19, there may be a 10 waiting period to buy ammo.

Anyone know if the NRA has started the legal process refuting these (new) laws. Not that I'm holding my breath for change, but it is worth trying.
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2017, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bushwack44 View Post
On #2, it sounds like come 7/1/19, there may be a 10 waiting period to buy ammo.

Anyone know if the NRA has started the legal process refuting these (new) laws. Not that I'm holding my breath for change, but it is worth trying.
No waiting period.
It is suppose to be "instant check". Entire process (request with approval or denial) is done online by ammunition vendor. [PC 30370(d)]

Can't file a lawsuit, until you have a damaged/affected party.
Can't have a damaged/affected party, until the laws go into effect.
AFAIK... CRPA/NRA lawsuit on standby until July 2019.
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2017, 5:43 PM
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So the ammo rules don't apply to somebody with a FFL 03 with COE is that correct, because what were finding out it the 03 with COE is just about good for nothing in Ca. so this would be one use if true....
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2017, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by stillwater562 View Post
So the ammo rules don't apply to somebody with a FFL 03 with COE is that correct, because what were finding out it the 03 with COE is just about good for nothing in Ca. so this would be one use if true....
A CA resident with a valid C&R FFL and valid COE is exempt. [PC 30312(c)(6) & 30314(b)(5)]



Penal Code 30312
(a)(1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall then promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:
(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

Penal Code 30314
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2017, 6:13 PM
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Bushwack44, if you are just starting to think about stocking up now to avoid these hassles, you are way behind the curve.

Some of us have been stacking ammo for years in anticipation of this. Senator DeLeon has been pushing for this 'ammo registration' concept for at least 5 years.

For me, the reason to stock up is #5.

5. At the time of purchase, the type, quantity and caliber of the ammunition purchased will be recorded by the state.

Sorry, I'm not going there.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2017, 7:52 PM
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As a private party, will I be able to sell Ammo out of state?
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jvrotter View Post
As a private party, will I be able to sell Ammo out of state?
Nope. [PC 30312(a)]
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2017, 1:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Nope. [PC 30312(a)]
Once you are out of state, CA law no longer applies.
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2017, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
1. Unless you are an exempt person...
Can not order and have shipped to your address.
Can order and have shipped to licensed ammunition vendor, who will then transfer it to you for a fee.

2. Nope. Just need valid State DL/ID.
Starting 07-01-2019, ammunition vendors need to do DROS when transferring ammo. Regulations governing this have not been released.

3. Nope.

4. Nope.
Who would be exempt person ?
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2017, 3:55 PM
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I understand there are no limits on ammo purchased at FFL after the new year, but what about large purchases ? I tend to buy 5,000 rounds of .22 at a time, along with 1,000 of.357 and 2 or 3,000 of 9mm. So no limit on buying 7 or 8,000 rounds at a time, but any red flags popping up somewhere ? That is about a years worth of ammo for me, I also reload some other calibers but I buy those for now. I have bought a few years worth already along with reloading components even though those wont be regulated YET
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Old 10-06-2017, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
I understand there are no limits on ammo purchased at FFL after the new year, but what about large purchases ? I tend to buy 5,000 rounds of .22 at a time, along with 1,000 of.357 and 2 or 3,000 of 9mm. So no limit on buying 7 or 8,000 rounds at a time, but any red flags popping up somewhere ? That is about a years worth of ammo for me, I also reload some other calibers but I buy those for now. I have bought a few years worth already along with reloading components even though those wont be regulated YET
If you are buying in the state, I doubt you will find retail holding this much (could be wrong).
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Old 10-06-2017, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
Bushwack44, if you are just starting to think about stocking up now to avoid these hassles, you are way behind the curve.

Some of us have been stacking ammo for years in anticipation of this. Senator DeLeon has been pushing for this 'ammo registration' concept for at least 5 years.

On the flip side, he benefits greatly by waiting until now because ammunition has never been cheaper since 2009.
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2017, 4:20 PM
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A Dillon 550 will be your best alternative. You can crank out 300 rounds of pistol Ammo per hour. As of now components aren't regulated but that will change shortly.
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Old 10-07-2017, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
I understand there are no limits on ammo purchased at FFL after the new year, but what about large purchases ? I tend to buy 5,000 rounds of .22 at a time, along with 1,000 of.357 and 2 or 3,000 of 9mm. So no limit on buying 7 or 8,000 rounds at a time, but any red flags popping up somewhere ? That is about a years worth of ammo for me, I also reload some other calibers but I buy those for now. I have bought a few years worth already along with reloading components even though those wont be regulated YET
I asked at a local gun range this week if there are limits on how much ammo can be purchased when the new laws take effect next year. I was told the limit is 499 rounds per transaction but that there is no limit to number of transactions per day/week/year.

I haven't confirmed this info but if true I don't see the purpose in limiting the number or rounds per transaction.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
If you are buying in the state, I doubt you will find retail holding this much (could be wrong).
I agree, you will have to order it from some LGS and pay the fees, no store will have that much.

Although, there are 2 ways to think of this at this time. 1. Stores will now be the only place to buy ammo (unless FFL3 and COE) so they actually may carry more ammo. And 2. Ammo prices will go up with all the fees and fewer people will be buying ammo so the stores will carry less.
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikemass View Post
I asked at a local gun range this week if there are limits on how much ammo can be purchased when the new laws take effect next year. I was told the limit is 499 rounds per transaction but that there is no limit to number of transactions per day/week/year.

I haven't confirmed this info but if true I don't see the purpose in limiting the number or rounds per transaction.
You should never, ever, never, ever ask an employee of a gun store or a gun range about any laws. They are the most uninformed (yet opinionated) people on the planet.
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  #21  
Old 10-08-2017, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
Who would be exempt person ?
Exempt person from needing to use a licensed ammunition vendor to transfer ammunition: [PC 30312(c)]
01. LE agency. [PC 30312(c)(1)]
02. LEO. [PC 30312(c)(2)]
03. Type 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, & 11 FFL. [PC 30312(c)(3)]
04. CA FFL dealer. [PC 30312(c)(4)]
05. Non-resident with a C&R Type 03-FFL. [PC 30312(c)(5)]
06. CA resident with a C&R Type 03-FFL and COE. [PC 30312(c)(6)]
07. CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(7)]
08. A consultant-evaluator with a COE [PC 16410]. [PC 30312(c)(8)]
09. Licensed target range/facility (ammo can never leave the property). [PC 30312(c)(9)]
10. Acquiring from an immediate family member or spouse/registered domestic partner. [PC 30312(c)(10)]

Exempt person from needing to use a licensed ammunition vendor to import ammunition acquired outside of CA: [PC 30314(b)]
01. CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30314(b)(1)]
02. LEO. [PC 30314(b)(2)]
03. Type 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, & 11 FFL. [PC 30314(b)(3)]
04. CA FFL dealer. [PC 30314(b)(4)]
05. CA resident with a C&R Type 03-FFL and COE. [PC 30314(b)(5)]
06. Acquiring from an immediate family member or spouse/registered domestic partner. [PC 30314(b)(6)]
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Last edited by Quiet; 10-08-2017 at 7:35 PM..
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  #22  
Old 10-08-2017, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikemass View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
I understand there are no limits on ammo purchased at FFL after the new year, but what about large purchases ? I tend to buy 5,000 rounds of .22 at a time, along with 1,000 of.357 and 2 or 3,000 of 9mm. So no limit on buying 7 or 8,000 rounds at a time, but any red flags popping up somewhere ? That is about a years worth of ammo for me, I also reload some other calibers but I buy those for now. I have bought a few years worth already along with reloading components even though those wont be regulated YET
I asked at a local gun range this week if there are limits on how much ammo can be purchased when the new laws take effect next year. I was told the limit is 499 rounds per transaction but that there is no limit to number of transactions per day/week/year.

I haven't confirmed this info but if true I don't see the purpose in limiting the number or rounds per transaction.
Currently, there is no limit to how much ammunition you can buy/acquire within a certain amount of time.

There is a requirement that if you sell more than 500 rounds within 30 days, then you must be a licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30342(a)]

Some people/vendors are misunderstanding that 500 rounds within 30 day limit, to mean people can't acquire more than 500 rounds at a time.
^This be FUD.



Penal Code 30342
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a valid ammunition vendor license shall be required for any person, firm, corporation, or other business enterprise to sell more than 500 rounds of ammunition in any 30-day period.
(b) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikemass View Post
I asked at a local gun range this week if there are limits on how much ammo can be purchased when the new laws take effect next year. I was told the limit is 499 rounds per transaction but that there is no limit to number of transactions per day/week/year.

I haven't confirmed this info but if true I don't see the purpose in limiting the number or rounds per transaction.
so what, they'd need to pull 1rd out of a brick/26rd out of a value pack, and assume that the manufacturer (of the value pack) didn't accidentally add a round?
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Old 10-09-2017, 3:05 PM
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Just reading PC 30314 (b)(6)

PC 30314.
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.

PC 16720 identifies an immediate family member as a direct relative (Grandparent or Parent).

I interpret (b)(6) as allowing the intrafamilial transfer of ammunition - my father lives in Idaho. Could this section be interpreted as allowing me to transport ammunition across the border that I received from my father when I visit him in Idaho? Do you think that I will be required to have a gift letter similar to the letter that my father signs when he gifts me a handgun/long gun or am I taking it too far?
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Old 10-09-2017, 5:50 PM
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I interpret PC 30314(b)(6) as allowing the intrafamilial transfer of ammunition - my father lives in Idaho.

1. Could this section be interpreted as allowing me to transport ammunition across the border that I received from my father when I visit him in Idaho?

2. Do you think that I will be required to have a gift letter similar to the letter that my father signs when he gifts me a handgun/long gun or am I taking it too far?
1. Yes.

2. Not required, but could be usefull for CYA purposes.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:21 AM
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Am I reading too much into that?

I go to Reno with my wife, also a CA resident. She buys 10k of 22LR, and gives/sells it to me.

I ow acquired the ammunition from a spouse, and can legally import it.
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Old 11-26-2017, 2:56 PM
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I do the majority of my shooting out of state and I have ammo currently stored out of state which was purchased in CA in 2017 and before and driven out in my car. Will I legally be able to drive back into CA with this ammo after January?

Will the same answer apply to ammo legally purchased in CA after January that I drive out with, don't shoot and drive back with?
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  #28  
Old 11-26-2017, 4:25 PM
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So lets say I need some rare type of ammo and no one locally has it, and no one locally accepts mail orders? Your pretty much screwed right , firearm is worthless?

I went to a local place and I ask if they had 223 or 556, they told me they had to check. Then when they came back they said they had 3 boxes of 20 .. If I asked for 6.5 Creedmoor I doubt any local place would have any, even 308 I doubt there would be any.
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Old 11-26-2017, 4:29 PM
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You can bet purchase limits are next on the list of agenda items for these clowns this state.
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  #30  
Old 11-26-2017, 9:04 PM
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How does this new law effect reloading supplies?

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #31  
Old 11-26-2017, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
How does this new law effect reloading supplies?
It does not effect reloading supplies.
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  #32  
Old 11-26-2017, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It does not effect reloading supplies.
Well sweet. Then no worries. CA sucks, I'm getting tired of it

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #33  
Old 11-26-2017, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
Bushwack44, if you are just starting to think about stocking up now to avoid these hassles, you are way behind the curve.

Some of us have been stacking ammo for years in anticipation of this. Senator DeLeon has been pushing for this 'ammo registration' concept for at least 5 years.

For me, the reason to stock up is #5.

5. At the time of purchase, the type, quantity and caliber of the ammunition purchased will be recorded by the state.

Sorry, I'm not going there.
When does the recording start, 7/1/19 or 1/1/18?
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  #34  
Old 11-26-2017, 10:01 PM
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Wow, what a great state.....not
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  #35  
Old 11-26-2017, 10:20 PM
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Is it known if this can be stopped with an injunction like the mag ban? or is it a different animal?

"C&R FFL and valid COE"

How painful is the above to acquire? or other downsides?
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  #36  
Old 11-27-2017, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Once you are out of state, CA law no longer applies.
It does if you buy something here, CA sales tax is required to be collected from any other state.

It also applies if you were convicted from a selected group of misdemeanors, one state's felony is another state's misdemeanor. Then you are banned for life from buying a firearm even if you move to another state.

Consider it a "parting gift" from Excremento.
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  #37  
Old 11-27-2017, 4:12 PM
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When does the recording start, 7/1/19 or 1/1/18?
Can anyone answer this?
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  #38  
Old 11-27-2017, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
It does if you buy something here, CA sales tax is required to be collected from any other state.

It also applies if you were convicted from a selected group of misdemeanors, one state's felony is another state's misdemeanor. Then you are banned for life from buying a firearm even if you move to another state.

Consider it a "parting gift" from Excremento.
Pay attention, I was responding to a specific question and Penal Code section.
And if you buy something here, you are not physically out of state. Or are you trying to claim that if I go shopping in Reno, that I am required to pay CA sales tax?
Reading comprehension matters.
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 11-27-2017 at 4:29 PM..
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2017, 4:53 PM
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Considering how difficult they are making it to buy ammo, isn't it worth the 20, 30, 50 bucks at an FFL to pick up your online order?

I have 2 FFLs down the street from me. Sounds like a crappy tax to deal with but gives me another year to still get any ammo I want.
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  #40  
Old 11-28-2017, 8:03 AM
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Good thing the NRA stood up on its hind legs and handled this like a boss.

Oh wait. They didn't.
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