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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 09-08-2017, 2:36 PM
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Whats the turn around time for state cases like this. Are we looking at a year process or a 5 year process?
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2017, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamVIP View Post
Whats the turn around time for state cases like this. Are we looking at a year process or a 5 year process?
According to this document I found, which outlines the Appeals process in the 5th, with estimated timelines, it looks like one should expect a typical appeal to take about 6-9 months from start to finish.

https://www.capcentral.org/procedure...STNDAppeal.pdf

But of course, some of the processes don't have deadlines, so it could always take infinitely longer than that.
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Old 09-08-2017, 2:53 PM
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According to that document, this is a "general outline" of "typical" appeals cases in the 5th. So it's of limited value, but gives us at least some idea of what happens:
  1. Preparation of transcripts - 1 to 6+ months
  2. Appellant's Opening Brief - 0 to 1 month (plus extensions, if requested/granted)
  3. Respondent's brief - 1 to 2 months
  4. Appellant's reply brief - 0 to 20 days
  5. Oral argument - 0 to any number of months ("usually a few", they say)
  6. Opinion - a few days to as much as 3 months

So according to that, it could be as short as 2 or 3 months, more likely it would be around 6-9 months, but it could be as long as, well... forever.
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2017, 2:55 PM
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But of course, that's just the 5th CA court of appeals, there's still the district court before it, and the CA supreme court after it, so the whole thing could potentially take a number of years to finish.

But we've seen "more urgent matters", like gay wedding cakes, zoom through the court system in mere weeks, so you never know.

Last edited by cockedandglocked; 09-08-2017 at 2:57 PM..
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2017, 2:57 PM
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Who knows how long it'll take! The anti-gunners will do anything to slow down the appeals until or after the new regs goes into full force. Then they argue it's too late to stop it.

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  #46  
Old 09-14-2017, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
But of course, that's just the 5th CA court of appeals, there's still the district court before it, and the CA supreme court after it, so the whole thing could potentially take a number of years to finish.

But we've seen "more urgent matters", like gay wedding cakes, zoom through the court system in mere weeks, so you never know.
I just hope we get some form of an injunction prior to Christmas. I'm curious if an injunction is granted how it impacts the law as a whole.
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2017, 2:49 PM
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I just hope we get some form of an injunction prior to Christmas. I'm curious if an injunction is granted how it impacts the law as a whole.
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  #48  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:00 AM
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Default Present status 10/10/17

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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
I just hope we get some form of an injunction prior to Christmas. I'm curious if an injunction is granted how it impacts the law as a whole.
Not likely. The DOJ was served on Sept. 14, 2017, so their answer or demurer is not yet due. It will be interesting to read whatever they file, once it has been filed. The only hearing that has been set is a Case Management Conference, which is set for Jan. 8, 2018 at 10AM.
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  #49  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:27 PM
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The cost of defense should come from the personal account of the bill sponsor. That should stop a lot of these senseless laws.
That would be nice, but of course the politicians enacted laws that exempt them from any liability resulting from the lawmaking process.
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  #50  
Old 10-17-2017, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
Not likely. The DOJ was served on Sept. 14, 2017, so their answer or demurer is not yet due. It will be interesting to read whatever they file, once it has been filed. The only hearing that has been set is a Case Management Conference, which is set for Jan. 8, 2018 at 10AM.
Their 30 days to answer or demurer is up and there is nothing new on the court's website. Would be nice to get an update from Michel & Associates.
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  #51  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:47 AM
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Their 30 days to answer or demurer is up and there is nothing new on the court's website. Would be nice to get an update from Michel & Associates.
Just checked the court's website and it is now showing a hearing on a Demurrer at 3:27 pm on Dec. 14, 2017 and a hearing on a Motion for a Preliminary Injunction at 3:28 pm on Dec. 14, 2017. The demurrer and motion are not showing up under documents. Should be interesting to read once they are available.
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  #52  
Old 11-09-2017, 7:05 AM
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Default 17CECG03093 | Danny Villanueva vs Xavier Becerra

Here's where to read DOJ responses (you may have to search the case # if the link goes dead):

https://publicportal.fresno.courts.c...=0#OtherEvents

After reading the reponses, basically the DOJ is the authority on all things assault weapons, set-up registration to "help you know how/what to register", and can do whatever they want.


The Judge: Hon. Mark Wood Snauffer
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  #53  
Old 11-09-2017, 8:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
Here's where to read DOJ responses (you may have to search the case # if the link goes dead):

https://publicportal.fresno.courts.c...=0#OtherEvents

After reading the reponses, basically the DOJ is the authority, set-up registration to "help you know how/what to register", and can do whatever they want.


The Judge: Hon. Mark Wood Snauffer
The case number is 17CECG03093. If you go to https://publicportal.fresno.courts.c...e/Dashboard/29 and use the case number you should be able to see all that is available.
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  #54  
Old 11-09-2017, 6:28 PM
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Demurrer motion and preliminary injunction motion scheduled for 12/14/17. Case management conference for 1/8/18.
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  #55  
Old 11-09-2017, 6:49 PM
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At least there are those who are pursuing these irrelevant and useless re classifications. As long as the state is allowed unfettered access to retroactively outlaw guns, features of guns, and accessories for guns they will have a tool to harass and criminalize gun owners while doing absolutely nothing to stop unlawful gun use.
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  #56  
Old 11-22-2017, 12:52 PM
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Posting a reference for DOJ action attempting to short-circuit Villanueva:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...php?p=20937526

Last edited by Robotron2k84; 11-22-2017 at 4:19 PM..
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  #57  
Old 11-25-2017, 6:53 PM
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Demurrer motion and preliminary injunction motion scheduled for 12/14/17. Case management conference for 1/8/18.
With the hearing for both demurrer and preliminary injunction motion scheduled for 12/14/17, does anyone have a sense for when a ruling will be issued? Before the case management conference? After the case management conference? Or?
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  #58  
Old 12-14-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post
With the hearing for both demurrer and preliminary injunction motion scheduled for 12/14/17, does anyone have a sense for when a ruling will be issued? Before the case management conference? After the case management conference? Or?
Both rescheduled to 01/30/18
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  #59  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:19 PM
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Both rescheduled to 01/30/18
At this rate the deadline will have come and gone before we learn if it was legal or not.
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  #60  
Old 12-15-2017, 8:29 AM
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At this rate the deadline will have come and gone before we learn if it was legal or not.
I was also delaying the inevitable action, hoping for the injunction. Apparently, it's just a waste of time. Gotta pull the trigger and start the registration process.
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  #61  
Old 12-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamVIP View Post
Whats the turn around time for state cases like this. Are we looking at a year process or a 5 year process?
At least maybe more. It will get upheld in the 9th circus. Who know if SCOTUS will even cert it.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:27 PM
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At least maybe more. It will get upheld in the 9th circus. Who know if SCOTUS will even cert it.
See posts 37 & 39
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  #63  
Old 01-10-2018, 5:51 PM
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Looks like we could get an injunction in Feb.? I wonder how that would affect those that already registered?

01/30/2018 Motion - Preliminary Injunction
03/15/2018 OSC - ADR Stipulation
10/30/2018 Mandatory Settlement Conference
11/16/2018 Trial Readiness
11/26/2018 Court Trial
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  #64  
Old 01-10-2018, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
Looks like we could get an injunction in Feb.? I wonder how that would affect those that already registered?

01/30/2018 Motion - Preliminary Injunction
03/15/2018 OSC - ADR Stipulation
10/30/2018 Mandatory Settlement Conference
11/16/2018 Trial Readiness
11/26/2018 Court Trial


That's why I've been waiting to register anything... which may be a decision I come to regret, if the injunction prevents further registrations while not changing the deadline. But I'm rolling the dice with that one.
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Old 01-10-2018, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post


That's why I've been waiting to register anything... which may be a decision I come to regret, if the injunction prevents further registrations while not changing the deadline. But I'm rolling the dice with that one.
I'm in the same boat. However, if there is an injunction against the regulations it seems that 30900(b) would fall apart and would be unenforceable. I'm sure we are just getting ahead of ourselves.
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Old 01-11-2018, 7:21 AM
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How about conversion to featureless and ignore the registration process completely?
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Old 01-11-2018, 9:18 AM
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How about conversion to featureless and ignore the registration process completely?
Because I can do that any time, with any gun, including ones I haven't even bought yet. Whereas, the only guns I can register and keep features on are the ones I already own. I'll definitely have some featureless guns as well. Diversify your portfolio, I always say
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:04 PM
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That's why I've been waiting to register anything... which may be a decision I come to regret, if the injunction prevents further registrations while not changing the deadline. But I'm rolling the dice with that one.
Wouldn't the deadline be suspended?
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post


That's why I've been waiting to register anything... which may be a decision I come to regret, if the injunction prevents further registrations while not changing the deadline. But I'm rolling the dice with that one.
In which case the deadline would have to be extended (again) or people who intend to register by the now legal deadline of 30 June 2018 would be harmed.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:22 PM
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Wouldn't the deadline be suspended?
I have no idea - I would certainly hope so
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:42 PM
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How about conversion to featureless and ignore the registration process completely?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1404887


Read this lawsuit and you'll find you MAY still need to register.
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Old 01-11-2018, 7:15 PM
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How about conversion to featureless and ignore the registration process completely?
You will lose the ability to hold a "featured" gun forever in this state. I would probably suggest keeping all the possible options open. Register some, convert others.

Last edited by riderr; 01-11-2018 at 9:29 PM..
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  #73  
Old 01-20-2018, 10:22 AM
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Default Declaration of Blake Graham

What are your thoughts. My take is that he is saying that the DOJ is too slow, too incompetent or both to have done the task correctly in the first place and that they are still too slow, too incompetent or both to fix the problems they created in a timely manner!

Would like to be present at this deposition when he is asked how enjoining enforcement of the regulations would or could compromise public safety, given that only law abiding persons would consider registering their BBAWs and, according to Heller and McDonald, these weapons are protected by the 2nd Amendment as commonly possessed for lawful purposes, including those without BBs, which is the norm through out the nation.
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Old 01-20-2018, 2:53 PM
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What are your thoughts. My take is that he is saying that the DOJ is too slow, too incompetent or both to have done the task correctly in the first place and that they are still too slow, too incompetent or both to fix the problems they created in a timely manner!

Would like to be present at this deposition when he is asked how enjoining enforcement of the regulations would or could compromise public safety, given that only law abiding persons would consider registering their BBAWs and, according to Heller and McDonald, these weapons are protected by the 2nd Amendment as commonly possessed for lawful purposes, including those without BBs, which is the norm through out the nation.
What "Declaration of Blake Graham" are you referring to, Google only turned up 2; one for what looks like the handgun ammo case and the other for the large standard capacity magazine ban.

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...ake-Graham.pdf

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...Injunction.pdf
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Old 01-20-2018, 3:44 PM
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Would like to be present at this deposition when he is asked how enjoining enforcement of the regulations would or could compromise public safety, given that only law abiding persons would consider registering their BBAWs and, according to Heller and McDonald, these weapons are protected by the 2nd Amendment as commonly possessed for lawful purposes, including those without BBs, which is the norm through out the nation.
Not only that but according to Haynes v. United States felons can't be required to register firearms.
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Old 01-20-2018, 4:55 PM
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What "Declaration of Blake Graham" are you referring to, Google only turned up 2; one for what looks like the handgun ammo case and the other for the large standard capacity magazine ban.

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...ake-Graham.pdf

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...Injunction.pdf

See
https://publicportal.fresno.courts.c...9Mgd_u6eo0?p=0

You will have to click on the download document button to see the entire declaration
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Old 01-20-2018, 4:59 PM
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See
https://publicportal.fresno.courts.c...9Mgd_u6eo0?p=0

You will have to click on the download document button to see the entire declaration
Thanks, looks like I need to get on the computer too, says the phone browser isn't supported.
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Old 01-20-2018, 5:19 PM
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Sounds like "we'd need more money", "we'd have to do more work", and "how would we be able to continue confiscations?"
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:37 PM
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See
https://publicportal.fresno.courts.c...9Mgd_u6eo0?p=0

You will have to click on the download document button to see the entire declaration
Who wrote that ****. The right there is proof that the only purpose for registration is eventual confiscation. They are just waiting for us to become "prohibited persons" one way or another.
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Old 01-21-2018, 9:34 AM
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So Blake Graham says that they hired 24 people to process the registrations. Given that they started in August that gives them under 11 months to process the estimated 1.5 million applications. Factoring in holidays (thanksgiving, Christmas MLK, etc) it comes to about 20 working days per month and 7 hours a day after breaks and lunch.

So doing the math the unskilled workers that have little or no firearms knowledge are supposed to process an application every 90 seconds. This does not take into account having to reprocess errors in the form, which probably is 100%, nor does it take into account joint registrations. These people are in soooo far over their heads the process won't he completed for years.
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