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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2009, 9:01 AM
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Default Vortex vs Phantom flash hider

I am thinking about switching from a Phantom to a Vortex but need more info, are they better?Also where is the best place to pick one up?
I have noticed there are different kind, I am looking to install it to my AR15
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Old 02-09-2009, 9:19 AM
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Ive seen the vortex around 46$-55$
I also been wanting to get one but people have said it makes a nice PING sound.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
Ive seen the vortex around 46$-55$
I also been wanting to get one but people have said it makes a nice PING sound.
I just bought one for $51
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:31 AM
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impulse buy eh?
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:34 AM
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How long is your barrel?
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:47 AM
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It's a little better than the Phantom but not by much.

If I was buying a stand alone FH right now it would be the AAC Blackout since it's the latest and seemingly greatest. Especially if your shooting M193.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:17 PM
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Phantom owners, hows the sound? almost as good as the vortex in no flash?
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:19 PM
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I'm still all over the tromix stuff. Some have said that they will blast your face and dirt so no shooting prone in dirt but otherwise gtg!
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:36 PM
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I love my vortex. Never really noticed a ping sound.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
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I love my vortex. Never really noticed a ping sound.
+1. You've got to compare them side by side with other fh to appreciate the difference i think.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:54 PM
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So is the Ping sound really true? noticeably different?
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Old 02-09-2009, 1:12 PM
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Is there really any noticeable performance difference between different flash hiders? I can understand a difference in muzzle brakes, but flash hiders?
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Old 02-09-2009, 1:39 PM
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Never tried a vortex but I do like my phantom. No flash and doubles as a meat grinder.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2009, 1:49 PM
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If I had to quantify the difference between a 4 port Phantom and a Vortex, I would say the Vortex is about 2% better than the phantom, but it's also 70% more expensive.
Both are excellent flash suppressors.
At this level of performance, you are at the point of diminshing returns.

Vortexes do ping.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2009, 2:05 PM
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mmmm...may have to try it just so I can get some ping to go with my sproing. Do the wire wrapped ones still ping or does that dampen it?
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2009, 3:28 PM
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Vortex is made by a company owned by a guy who screamed at me for daring to be a Californian trying to purchase one of his flash hiders.

The Phantom is not.

That pretty much sealed my decision.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2009, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leelaw View Post
Vortex is made by a company owned by a guy who screamed at me for daring to be a Californian trying to purchase one of his flash hiders.

The Phantom is not.

That pretty much sealed my decision.

Next time, tell him you live in the United States of America and you won't have that problem.
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2009, 4:39 PM
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As evidenced by their service and quality of products, Advanced Armament is outstanding, AND they also happen to be as California-friendly as they can be:

They are currently turning me up a 51-tooth Blackout for my 6.5 Grendel as we speak.

After seeing the comparisons in person, I have changed every AR muzzle device over to 51-tooth Blackouts.

Last edited by Sleepnosis; 02-09-2009 at 4:42 PM..
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2009, 4:39 PM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=152709

used Vortex 35$
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2009, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkt88edmo View Post
mmmm...may have to try it just so I can get some ping to go with my sproing. Do the wire wrapped ones still ping or does that dampen it?
They don't sell the wire wrapped ones anymore.
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Old 02-09-2009, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leelaw View Post
Vortex is made by a company owned by a guy who screamed at me for daring to be a Californian trying to purchase one of his flash hiders.
haha, Ron can be pretty brash, but he never gives me poop about living in CA.
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  #22  
Old 02-09-2009, 5:12 PM
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Randall, do you suggest the Phantom the best bang for the buck? Which Phantom?
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  #23  
Old 02-09-2009, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
Randall, do you suggest the Phantom the best bang for the buck? Which Phantom?
Best bang for the buck is a 4 port phantom.
That's the standard one with the wire cutter notches in front.
The 5C models are not quite as effective.
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  #24  
Old 02-09-2009, 5:23 PM
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I've a 51-t AAC blackout on my 14.5" Nov/Mag upper.... it does sound VERY different than my other ARs....

And there is definitely a very distinctive "ping"....


Now.... how can I get a matching AAC can?
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Old 02-09-2009, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
Next time, tell him you live in the United States of America and you won't have that problem.
"What is the shipping address"

"<blah blah> California"

"Uh. Hang on one second.."

Then the boss comes on the line and screams at me.
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  #26  
Old 02-09-2009, 5:47 PM
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jicko did you still have phantoms to sell? haha
Im looking at http://www.yhm.net/store/muzzle.html

The only one that looks like 4 prong has a port on the bottom, which would kick up dirt. So how bout the 5C1 and 5C2 models?
Randall said not quite as effective, is that in flash hiding? or both?
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Old 02-09-2009, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicko View Post
I've a 51-t AAC blackout on my 14.5" Nov/Mag upper.... it does sound VERY different than my other ARs....

And there is definitely a very distinctive "ping"....


Now.... how can I get a matching AAC can?

No love for us. Even with the MAWP and begging Yolanda to let me bring mine in.

Last edited by Sleepnosis; 02-09-2009 at 5:53 PM..
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  #28  
Old 02-09-2009, 8:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
The only one that looks like 4 prong has a port on the bottom, which would kick up dirt. So how bout the 5C1 and 5C2 models?
Randall said not quite as effective, is that in flash hiding? or both?
The standard 4 port is a balanced design.
It draws-in air equally from all 4 ports and therefore extinguishes the flame evenly.
The 5C models don't work as well because the design is not balanced.
The notion that they don't kick up as much dirt is hogwash.
ANY muzzle that's down near the ground is going to kick up a whole bunch of dirt, regardless of the muzzle device.
The only solution is a blast matt that you lay down on the ground in front of you.
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Old 02-09-2009, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridatsun350 View Post
Is there really any noticeable performance difference between different flash hiders? I can understand a difference in muzzle brakes, but flash hiders?
Yes.

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  #30  
Old 02-09-2009, 8:52 PM
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I bought the vortex not for the flash hiding ability which is adequate, but my understanding is that it has less disruption on the bullet and therefore better accuracy. Someone will let me know i'm sure if i bought a bill of goods on that one, but that is what CMMG told me almost 2 years ago when bought the upper.
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Old 02-09-2009, 9:01 PM
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Anyone ever hear about one of the 4 fingers/prongs on the Vortex possibly breaking with use over time? I heard that mentioned before in a thread somewhere. I don't remember exactly where, but it was a while back.

I may be wrong, it was just something I heard.
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Old 02-09-2009, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insin View Post
Anyone ever hear about one of the 4 fingers/prongs on the Vortex possibly breaking with use over time? I heard that mentioned before in a thread somewhere. I don't remember exactly where, but it was a while back.

I may be wrong, it was just something I heard.
Yup. About 10 years ago there was a design change to the Vortex and a production run of weak Vortex FS's shipped. Have had it happen to me. I had a smith permanently install a Smith Vortex on a 14.5". After less than 500 rounds the tines (prongs) started to spread apart and around 700 rounds I noticed cracking around the base of the tines. At less than 1,000 rounds, one of the tines broke loose.

Sent it back to the smith and Smith Enterprises replaced the Vortex. Using calipers I measured the diameter of the Vortex with calipers when I got it back. So far I've got about 4,000 rounds through that barrel and the diameter has increased 0.001-0.002".
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Old 02-09-2009, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technical Ted View Post
Yup. About 10 years ago there was a design change to the Vortex and a production run of weak Vortex FS's shipped. Have had it happen to me. I had a smith permanently install a Smith Vortex on a 14.5". After less than 500 rounds the tines (prongs) started to spread apart and around 700 rounds I noticed cracking around the base of the tines. At less than 1,000 rounds, one of the tines broke loose.

Sent it back to the smith and Smith Enterprises replaced the Vortex. Using calipers I measured the diameter of the Vortex with calipers when I got it back. So far I've got about 4,000 rounds through that barrel and the diameter has increased 0.001-0.002".
Yeah, I knew I heard that somewhere. Maybe not from your particular case, but definitely something similar.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If I had to quantify the difference between a 4 port Phantom and a Vortex, I would say the Vortex is about 2% better than the phantom, but it's also 70% more expensive.
Both are excellent flash suppressors.
At this level of performance, you are at the point of diminshing returns.

Vortexes do ping.
That 2% could be the difference between seen and not seen, IMHO.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2009, 8:50 PM
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Some other compariosn pics collected from the net:
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepnosis View Post
How long is your barrel?
16" and 20"
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyte27 View Post
Phantom owners, hows the sound? almost as good as the vortex in no flash?
to me it sounds like a 5.56 going off nothing different I had a FSC556 and that sounded loud if your sitting on the side of me.
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Old 02-13-2009, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If I had to quantify the difference between a 4 port Phantom and a Vortex, I would say the Vortex is about 2% better than the phantom, but it's also 70% more expensive.
Both are excellent flash suppressors.
At this level of performance, you are at the point of diminshing returns.

Vortexes do ping.
Got the Vortex and want to let everyone know that vortex is about 90% more effective not 2%, I am not sure where he got that but it's not true.

I will be selling my Phantoms so if anyone is interested let me know I have a tactical with glass breaker and one standard.
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Old 02-13-2009, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lostinspace View Post
Got the Vortex and want to let everyone know that vortex is about 90% more effective not 2%,
I am not sure where he got that but it's not true.
I got that by shooting them both on the same 6.5" pistol barrel with the same ammo, in total darkness.
The standard phantom is a really really good flash suppressor.
If you are comparing the vortex to the 5C1 or 5C2, then all bets are off.
The 5C models are not nearly as good as the standard phantom.
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  #40  
Old 02-14-2009, 2:08 AM
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Do the 5C Phantoms provide any noticeable muzzle braking effects with the closed bottom area?

-Dave
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