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Already Confusion for some Law Enforcement Personnel
I have a customer that works for one of the county's Sheriffs. He was asking about the new laws and I provided some clarification regarding registration period in 2017, etc... Here's a quote that has me scared, but I don't think most in these forums would be surprised by:
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(This may not be the most correct forum so mods please move to correct area)
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#2
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We may have reached the point where ignorance of the law is a valid excuse, because the laws are so numerous and such a mess that nobody can understand them all.
You can't use that stock with that flash hider and that grip unless you have a magazine lock but wait it has to be a new kind of magazine lock not the old kind but if you registered it twenty years ago you're good to go but if not you might go to jail but if you change to this stock and that grip then you're probably OK but that combo hasn't been to court yet so nobody knows.
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I don't always save the world, but when I do, it's in 24 hours or less... |
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+1, it's a completely ridiculous state of affairs. No one knows and it's the definition of a flustercluck. If people where honest on this board and stop the endless interpretations and just concentrate on the reality that the DOJ may not clarify what the law means until late next year, we would be better off.
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A cop friend asked me to school him on the new laws the other day, and he just seemed confused. He mentioned that he'd been given different information by one of his LEO coworkers, information that I know to be erroneous. I doubt it all sunk in, and I think he'll focus on pulling over speeders. He's an easy going guy, though. Of course, that can't be said of all LEOs. Some want any excuse to write a ticket or bust you. It's the luck of the draw.
I know a guy that got busted for having a short barreled shotgun in his car. He was subsequently arrested and taken to jail. Turns out it wasn't a SBS, and the cop did not know how to properly measure the length of the barrel. Even though it is infrequent, this kind of stuff happens. |
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#9
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Sad that CrapOfornia's stirred bowl of confusing spaghetti type gun laws are so FUBAR that not even those tasked with enforcing them can understand them. On the ignorance front. Cops get qualified immunity if they make a mistake based on ignorance of the law, as long as there is no provable intent to break the law on their part. But for those law abiding citizens that get caught up in the web of confusing spaghetti bowl of laws. Ignorance is no excuse, and just makes them low hanging fruit and easy pickings for overly aggressive DAs. Just looking for a "win" on their record. JM2c |
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So we have a year to register, but we can't transport or use it...?
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The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded. Charles-Louis de Secondat (1689-1755) Baron de Montesquieu In America, freedom and justice have always come from the ballot box, the jury box, and when that fails, the cartridge box. Steve Symms, ex-U.S. Senator, Idaho |
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the point of these laws are not to stop criminals. It's to create criminals out of gun owners who don't understand or can even keep up with all the new laws spewing out of the legislature.
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
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Now to the OP's post, truth be told you can get the same at gun shops. While I'm not too surprised that he got different answer's, since everyone's interpretation will vary some. Heaven forbid that DOJ be timely with distribution of their guidelines. Hell the last "firearms update" I saw from the AG's office was in 2003, and I spend a good deal of time in a current rangemaster's office. |
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#18
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Already Confusion for some Law Enforcement Personnel
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The 'It was a YouTube video' defense? Or, perhaps the 'popular vote' excuse? Would you believe the 'it's more convenient' excuse??? If James Comey can't convict her, then ...
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Correct. The grace period is f or possession only... transport is a felony per Cuck Michel & CRPA legal.
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The one thing worse than defeat is surrender. |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver
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#21
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No way LEO will have any way to enforce anything until DOJ guidlines come out, and even then it will be months if not years for training to be developed. 99% of gun owners and 100% of LEO will be clueless. I don't think anyone needs to be worried about anything for the foreseeable future.
What the new laws have done is to disrupt the commerce of rifles which is exactly what they where intended to do. Those arguing old keyboard warrior mantras about registration and confiscation or "maximizing registration" are so out of touch will reality its depressing. They want so badly to register our guns and then take them away that they haven't even released enforcement guidelines and probably won't until well into the new year? Lol, they could care less about what is or is not registered. The headache and added cost of workarounds that businesses have to put up with to sell a product in CA is the endgame. |
#22
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EDIT: Found this in another thread -- So the gray area is the time after Jan. 01, 2017 and registering and since there is currently no mechanism is in place to do so, we have legal exposure? Quote:
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The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded. Charles-Louis de Secondat (1689-1755) Baron de Montesquieu In America, freedom and justice have always come from the ballot box, the jury box, and when that fails, the cartridge box. Steve Symms, ex-U.S. Senator, Idaho Last edited by Maltese Falcon; 12-13-2016 at 5:28 PM.. |
#23
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The whole idea that they are doing this as a prelude to confiscation by serial number is laughable; they don't have to confiscate a SINGLE FIREARM to reduce non-LEO/non-showbiz firearm ownership in CA to near zero.
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The Rifle on the Wall "“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamala Harris Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome |
#24
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The safest bet, and one that most here don't want to admit, is to leave questionable firearms back in your safe, and take something else to the range. I would rather not create an issue in the first place. If your questionable (to the officer) weapon ends up in his squad car trunk, there is the possibility that you won't get it back. I'll be slinging my bolt-rifle until I learn otherwise. You do as you see fit. |
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Acting skiddish and hiding legal purchased and owned semi auto rifles is silly. You take your BB semi to a range what would LEO ever have a problem with at any time? Even if they where grossly misinformed and said something like you can't have a BB anymore if the registration period is not open then what could you possibly do to comply with the law more than what your doing? Even if the reg period opens early in 2017 you still have until 2018 to register, so having a BB semi at a range or in the car is fine. LEO will not care and not understand, and just continue the older guild-lines until they are instructed otherwise. |
#27
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I don't predict what LEO will do. BB's are out of play January 1. Unless it is registered, it is an unregistered assault weapon. Granted you have a year to register it, but the law does not say you can transport it until then. This is a problem. How do you know LEO will not care? And if they do not understand, then what will they do? As before. I won't chance that prediction. |
#28
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Spreading FUD about not going to ranges or assuming LEO will go after people with legal semi-auto rifles is silly. Am I not supposed to shoot a semi-auto rifle for a year or do anything with it and keep it buried in the safe? The crazy uniformed cop paranoia argument can be used for almost anything. |
#29
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^^^
I could see an agency like LAPD for example, easily confiscating an unregistered assault weapon, despite the fact that there may be no mechanism to register said weapon yet. Problem is, the DOJ has not given clear procedural guidelines as how to handle this. That is where I can see things going in different directions. I'm not spreading FUD, I'm simply stating that NOBODY knows, or can predict with certainty, what any particular contact with LE over an unregistered AW may lead to. I don't assume that they will go after anybody, but I do believe that some may, given direction/lack thereof by their agency. I have seen on only one occasion a county LE agency carefully observe weapons at a firing range; everything was within lawful ownership, and they drove away. But that is no absolute guarantee of what may happen tomorrow. Im saying that one's decision to leave an unregistered AW in a secure place until this is sorted out means that at least it won't be confiscated during some unforeseen contact under the most common circumstances. "Crazy uniformed cop paranoia"? No, but cautious after watching a few others deal with stuff better avoided in the first place. YMMV |
#30
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How many more statutes have been added in the last 11 years? It is simply impossible for any individual to memorize all that. And then be held personally liable for all it contains. We have to have qualified immunity for LEO. Unless they "knowingly" break the law themselves. Even then they are entitled to "Due Process". Just as we average citizens are. P5 said Quote:
And then pled the "If Cops were stupid enough to believe me, it's not my fault" defense. And the Courts of course let her get away with it. And she intentionally did the same with "Undetermined Delay" status of DROS. Anything she can do to confuse both LE and citizens and make firearms ownership more ornerous, she will do. If the Cops get sued, and innocent citizens go to jail or have their guns taken, that is just collateral damage for her agenda. |
#31
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In the first line, it specifies up front that we are discussing REGISTERED assault weapons. Every sub-section a-g applies to this REGISTERED assault weapon. This is where they outline exactly what you can legally do with your registered AW. These are the limited exceptions to the COMPLETE ban on AW's that registration entitles you to take advantage of. None of the points in this section apply to UNREGISTERED assault weapons. That is key to this discussion. ALL of those activities with UNREGISTERED AW's are completely prohibited. The only exception is the newly-created AW's that become such by virtue of being feature+bb firearms when the clock ticks 12:00 AM on Jan 1, 2017 (or having been legally possessed in such a qualifying configuration prior to that time). This may be a "grey area" in terms of people's understanding of it (hazy at best it seems) but it's crystal clear in terms of the law. On Jan 1 you have an unregistered AW that you are allowed to possess without fear of prosecution for the next 365 days. Basically, at home, in your safe, with no one else having access to it. That's not a pass to go to the range or do any of the other things that REGISTERED AW owners get to do. Once you get your registration paperwork back, THEN you can go get wild and freaky loading up your AW in the car and taking it to the range and enjoying all those other wonderful privileges that REGISTERED AW owner's get to do. I think that should clear up any "grey" but then there are some folks who seem disinclined to want to understand it.
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The one thing worse than defeat is surrender. Last edited by bruss01; 12-14-2016 at 10:11 AM.. |
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Pretty sure the only people who comprehensively understand the laws the best are calgunners. There's no precedent on LE actually coming down on someone for the edge case infringements. It's all in you heads people. Want to see something actually happen? Self incrimminate.
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#33
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I would like to see a posted opinion from Michael & Associates advising us on what to do/not do with the upcoming AW laws in this stupid state. At least they have a considered opinion based on their legal expertise in this area. Everything else that has been posted above is mere speculation as to what may/may not happen in 2017. That said, I agree with several above posters that being stopped by an LEO while in possession of an AW could go many different ways. The LEO may be pro-gun and do nothing or the LEO may be a rookie or anti-gun and want to make a name for himself/herself with their superiors and take you and your gun to jail. I don't want to be that test case so I will be keeping my AR guns in the safe and at home until we see how all of this crap works itself out. I'd rather be safe and keep my guns than chance an encounter with an LEO who has a hard on to prove something.
Even if you are 100% legal you may still take the ride and need to hire a lawyer to fix it for you and good luck getting your AW returned to you in a timely manner if at all. I don't want to be "that guy" so I'll wait and see how it all works out. My guess is that it will take someone being arrested and a lengthy (Not to mention VERY expensive!) court case for it to be fined tuned to the point where all of us mere mortals understand the new laws and how to comply with them. Hell, I have met California LEO who are completely clueless as to the CCW laws in this s*** bag state. I had an LAPD LEO tell me once that my CCW issued by OCSD isn't valid in Los Angeles. The guy had to call his field supervisor to come in and verify that it was, in fact, valid statewide. The point being that so many LEO have no clue about the laws they are sworn to enforce that are already on the books let alone the new AW laws. I'll wait and see what happens before taking my AW out to shoot them! My 2 cents anyway!
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"Life Is Hard. It's Harder When You're Stupid"-John Wayne! "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder"-Michael Savage! "The Object of Life Is Not To Be On The Side Of The Majority, But To Escape Finding Oneself In The Ranks Of The Insane"-Marcus Aurelius! "Dr. Thomas Sowell Is A National Treasure"-Big Jake! Last edited by Big Jake; 12-15-2016 at 7:05 AM.. |
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You got $1,000? That's what it cost me last time I asked Michel & Associates for a legal opinion.
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#35
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I understand. Maybe they will post an opinion since they are members on CGN.
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"Life Is Hard. It's Harder When You're Stupid"-John Wayne! "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder"-Michael Savage! "The Object of Life Is Not To Be On The Side Of The Majority, But To Escape Finding Oneself In The Ranks Of The Insane"-Marcus Aurelius! "Dr. Thomas Sowell Is A National Treasure"-Big Jake! |
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Be nice. Explain things. Don't go on a long rant about how you hate the 'system' or any other cooky gun community conspiracy theories. Keep that for your non LEO engagements. |
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"Life Is Hard. It's Harder When You're Stupid"-John Wayne! "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder"-Michael Savage! "The Object of Life Is Not To Be On The Side Of The Majority, But To Escape Finding Oneself In The Ranks Of The Insane"-Marcus Aurelius! "Dr. Thomas Sowell Is A National Treasure"-Big Jake! |
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
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You'd be surprised how many anti-gun folk would actually be nice to you and hear you out if you don't talk down on them. This includes the mythical 'anti-gun' cop. |
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I do. They'll do whatever they're told, especially if they risk losing their pay/careers. As a group they have never taken a stand for the "less equals" to that degree, and they never will.
Anyone disagree ?
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