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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-12-2009, 7:19 PM
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Default Here it is, HR45, National Registration of Firearms and Permitting of Purchasers.

http://washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/111_HR_45.html

HR45 text of the bill. would regulate sales and transfers of firearms on a national level. And crimnializing every aspect of non-compliance with full registration and tracking.

Quote:

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.

(a) Short Title- This Act may be cited as `Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009'.

(b) Table of Contents- The table of contents for this Act is as follows:

Sec. 1. Short title; table of contents.

Sec. 2. Findings and purposes.

Sec. 3. Definitions.

TITLE I末LICENSING

Sec. 101. Licensing requirement.

Sec. 102. Application requirements.

Sec. 103. Issuance of license.

Sec. 104. Renewal of license.

Sec. 105. Revocation of license.

TITLE II末RECORD OF SALE OR TRANSFER

Sec. 201. Sale or transfer requirements for qualifying firearms.

Sec. 202. Firearm records.

TITLE III末ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS

Sec. 301. Universal background check requirement.

Sec. 302. Failure to maintain or permit inspection of records.

Sec. 303. Failure to report loss or theft of firearm.

Sec. 304. Failure to provide notice of change of address.

Sec. 305. Child access prevention.

etc etc etc.
The full **** sandwich of national registration, national permitting, basically the instittuion of a Chicago / Massachusetts -style FOID card and all the **** that goes with it.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2009, 7:21 PM
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(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license末
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Old 01-12-2009, 7:22 PM
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Thanks. This is worth keeping an eye on, but I don't think it is going anywhere.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyhog
When the governor vetoes a bill that would make it a felony to steal a gun, but signs a bill into law that makes it a felony not to register a gun you already legally own, you know something isn't right.
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Old 01-12-2009, 7:22 PM
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(2) PROHIBITION AND PENALTIES- Except as provided in paragraph (3), it shall be unlawful for any person to keep a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, any 1 of which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, within any premises that is under the custody or control of that person, if末

(A) that person末

(i) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that a child is capable of gaining access to the firearm; and

(ii) either末

(I) knows, or recklessly disregards the risk, that a child will use the firearm to cause the death of, or serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of this title) to, the child or any other person; or

(II) knows, or reasonably should know, that possession of the firearm by a child is unlawful under Federal or State law; and
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Old 01-12-2009, 7:26 PM
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It has been tried before.

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills...0_HR_2666.html
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2009, 7:27 PM
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What a pile of dog $#!+
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Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2009, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody_special View Post
Thanks. This is worth keeping an eye on, but I don't think it is going anywhere.
And why specifically do you think that?


Democrats have the votes.
That impeachment crackpot Conyers chairs the committee this must go thru, and Pelosi has already amended the House rules to preclude debate or amendment by the minority party.
This thing will go thru slicker than crap thru a goose.

For pete's sake they just passed a huge Land-grab bill that sequestered millions of acres of land in such a way that only DINK treehuggers can use it and passed it on a Sunday night.

We're going to wake up one morning very soon and find we've been saddled with a Chicago / Massachusetts -style FOID card and national registration of all firearms, and NRA et al aren't even going to have got their 'Alert!' emails out before it's a done deal.

Now you and placid like you tell me why it WON'T go that way. And so help me if you say 'Blue Dog Democrats' I'm going to laugh my *** off all the way to the gallows.
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Old 01-12-2009, 7:44 PM
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I don't think they have the votes... there are quite a few pro-gun dem's. But in the unlikely eventuality that this is passed, I can predict with 100% certainty that there will be civil disobedience and widespread non-compliance.
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Originally Posted by Edmund G. Brown
There are certain rights that are not to be subject to popular votes, otherwise they are not fundamental rights. If every fundamental liberty can be stripped away by a majority vote, then it's not a fundamental liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyhog
When the governor vetoes a bill that would make it a felony to steal a gun, but signs a bill into law that makes it a felony not to register a gun you already legally own, you know something isn't right.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2009, 7:55 PM
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Went nowhere in the 110th Congress, unlikely it will go anywhere in the 111th.
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2009, 7:58 PM
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Uh, wait a minute, Thomas shows a different HR45...

45. H.RES.45 : Raising awareness and promoting education on the criminal justice system by establishing March as "National Criminal Justice Month".
Sponsor: Rep Poe, Ted [TX-2] (introduced 1/9/2009) Cosponsors (4)
Committees: House Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 1/9/2009 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund G. Brown
There are certain rights that are not to be subject to popular votes, otherwise they are not fundamental rights. If every fundamental liberty can be stripped away by a majority vote, then it's not a fundamental liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyhog
When the governor vetoes a bill that would make it a felony to steal a gun, but signs a bill into law that makes it a felony not to register a gun you already legally own, you know something isn't right.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2009, 8:01 PM
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The NRA would rather keep fighting than win.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2009, 8:14 PM
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Something to keep an eye on with a democratic controlled congress, a Obama staff members were part of the former clintion adminstration, the clintions involved in the Obama adminstration and Obama in the white house. Not to mention the media...
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The same way they enforce all the rest of the BS laws. Only criminals are exempt, while the honest obey.
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Sometimes I think the function of Calguns is half to refute bad info from gunshops and half to refute bad info from DOJ.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2009, 8:20 PM
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I got the same as Rayra did when I searched. Looks like a central database requirement also.

Vick
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:h.r.00045:
H.R.45
Title: To provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Rush, Bobby L. [IL-1] (introduced 1/6/2009) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 1/6/2009 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2009, 8:24 PM
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H.Res. != HR
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2009, 9:12 PM
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They tried a plan similar to this in Canada and it didn't work. That's with a place which fewer guns and a more gun-hostile population, and they had to cancel the program after they passed the bill, because it was hopeless.
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Old 01-12-2009, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
The NRA would rather keep fighting than win.
of course...once you have safely destroyed all legal opposition to gun ownership there really isn't much use for an organization to protect a right which is not under threat.
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:31 PM
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I hope you guys are kidding. The NRA is fighting this crap because they have to. If they didn't have to fight the gun grabbers they could put their efforts into much better things. Reguilding the gun culture comes to mind. Improving gun safety awareness, work to strengthen laws involving criminals using guns. There are lots of things the NRA could be spending money doing if the laws were less coercive.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:44 PM
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If it comes to a vote I think the House might pass it. The Senate is iffy but hopefully the Demorats will be so busy passing their major anti America bills that they wont get to it for a year or two.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobs11 View Post
By the same rep too.
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DDT View Post
I hope you guys are kidding. The NRA is fighting this crap because they have to. If they didn't have to fight the gun grabbers they could put their efforts into much better things. Reguilding the gun culture comes to mind. Improving gun safety awareness, work to strengthen laws involving criminals using guns. There are lots of things the NRA could be spending money doing if the laws were less coercive.
Exactly. NRA wasn't fighting anti-gunners when it was founded. That's a more recent thing. I can see the NRA going back to its roots if we won...
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
They tried a plan similar to this in Canada and it didn't work. That's with a place which fewer guns and a more gun-hostile population, and they had to cancel the program after they passed the bill, because it was hopeless.
There was no restriction as to what could be registered. People were registering rakes, shovels, hammers, spoons, and anything else they could to cause the system to be unreliable, overburdened, and costly. I think my brother's friend may have registered his dog.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:03 AM
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Strange. Bobby Rush, who introduced this bill, is a former Black Panther and was charged with illegal possession of a firearm in 1972.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayWolf09 View Post
Strange. Bobby Rush, who introduced this bill, is a former Black Panther and was charged with illegal possession of a firearm in 1972.
If true what's so strange about it? That would be par for the course with these statists. Just another "community activist" doing his part.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayra View Post
Democrats have the votes.
No, they don't.

/thread.
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Old 01-13-2009, 2:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
They tried a plan similar to this in Canada and it didn't work. That's with a place which fewer guns and a more gun-hostile population, and they had to cancel the program after they passed the bill, because it was hopeless.
Gun owners are licensed in Canada. It has been this way for quite some time. At least 50 years. ( "FAC" and "PAL" firearms licenses )

Handguns ( "restricted" class firearms ) have been required to be registered. This also has been in effect for a long time.

The longarm registry is somewhat new. In effect for ~10 years, it's been a huge drain on gov't resources. The PM has promised to scrap this new registry, but hasn't done it yet. It's still active.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/faq/reg_enreg_e.asp

-- Michael
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Old 01-13-2009, 5:37 AM
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And so it begins.
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Old 01-13-2009, 6:42 AM
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They might be able to pass it, but it would be the last thing they passed in that congress, and as soon as election time rolled around a bunch of "yes" votes could get hammered. The will is there but I dont think it will pass the cost benefit analysis test.
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Old 01-13-2009, 6:51 AM
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Default The title of the bill tells a lot.

"Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009"

Blair Holt was a student in Chicago. He was shot...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/acd.02.html

This bill puts nationwide the same law as IL or MA. Odd, that this congressman does not notice that if IL has a firearm owner registration and Blair was shot in IL, then this proposal does not work. Expanding it nationwide will not make it better.
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Old 01-13-2009, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter9659 View Post
There was no restriction as to what could be registered. People were registering rakes, shovels, hammers, spoons, and anything else they could to cause the system to be unreliable, overburdened, and costly. I think my brother's friend may have registered his dog.
Now that is cool. I wasn't aware of that. Of course that would melt down their system.
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Old 01-13-2009, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
They might be able to pass it, but it would be the last thing they passed in that congress, and as soon as election time rolled around a bunch of "yes" votes could get hammered. The will is there but I dont think it will pass the cost benefit analysis test.
It obviously didn't cost them enough last time or they wouldn't be trying it again. If that mechanism were working the way it should we wouldn't have to worry about it because the people who favor it wouldn't be there in the first place. But apparently laying low and letting the voters forget must work.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_22 View Post
"Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009"

Blair Holt was a student in Chicago. He was shot...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/acd.02.html

This bill puts nationwide the same law as IL or MA. Odd, that this congressman does not notice that if IL has a firearm owner registration and Blair was shot in IL, then this proposal does not work. Expanding it nationwide will not make it better.
Exactly what I was going to say. I posted this in another forum:


I'd never heard of Blair Holt, so I did some research. Turns out, this whole episode is yet another textbook Proof Of Example that gun control doesn't work, and is being used as an excuse for more gun control.

Quote:
Michael 溺ario Pace, 16, is charged with one count of murder and five counts of attempted murder in the Thursday shooting that claimed the life of Julian High School student Blair Holt, 16, who was not the intended target. Facing identical charges is 15-year-old Kevin Jones, who sources said gave Pace the gun. Jones knew Pace wanted to use the weapon to try to kill someone Pace had argued with on an almost 電aily basis, possibly over a girl, sources said
Quote:
Bond said that one suspect was the gunman and the other was an accomplice in the Thursday attack, which police have said was gang-related. The gunman boarded the bus, quickly opened fire and then fled.

Police charged the suspected shooter, who was recently expelled from the high school, on Sunday morning. His teenage accomplice was arrested and charged Saturday after implicating himself during questioning, Bond said.
Let's start with Illinois:

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_il.htm

Quote:
Handguns

* Permit to purchase handgun? FOID Required.*

* Registration of handguns? No.**

* Licensing of owners of handguns? FOID Required.*

* Permit to carry handguns? No***

* Subject to municipal control. Handguns have been banned in some municipalities.

** Chicago requires registration of all firearms.

*** Carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited entirely. A FOID is required to transport a handgun. See "Carrying."
I'd bet Kevin Jones didn't have a FOID, and he is also not 21 years old, which is the minimum age to purchase a handgun. Michael 溺ario Pace is also under 21, and did not have a FOID.

Neither of them have concealed carry licenses either.

A FOID requirement is:

Quote:
Is over 21 years of age. If under 21, he must have the written consent of his parent or guardian. In such case, the guardian himself must not be ineligible for a FOID, and the applicant must never have been convicted of a misdemeanor or adjudged a delinquent.
I doubt they had written consent from a parent or guardian -- if they even have parents/guardians -- and being gang members recently expelled from school, are probably delinquents, too.

Also in Illinois law:

Quote:
Possession

* It is unlawful to possess any firearm or ammunition without a valid FOID.

* It is unlawful for any person under the age of 18 to possess a handgun, or concealable firearm.

* It is unlawful for any person to possess any firearm with intent to use it unlawfully against another.
3 more laws broken...

Also, it seems that handguns are completely banned in Chicago unless you owned & registered your handgun at the time when the ban went into place, which I doubt these two cretins did...
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Old 01-22-2009, 3:13 PM
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Default HR 45......This is trouble

Not sure if I'm late to the party on this one or not but figured it deserved a thread (couldn't locate one already in existence). I received this from Bob Hancock.


Quote:
Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Will we the citizenry be as lucky this time?



Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a facist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to uprise against them.



The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society's life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made the right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a populations right to defend themselves. When this is done the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.



Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment!



The following is a summary of the bill as provided by the Congressional Research Service. If you read the whole bill, you'll find it will effectively preclude the ownership of ANY firearms by law-abiding people unless licensed by the Attorney General. How long do you think THAT would take??

Congressional Research Service Summary
The following summary was written by the Congressional Research Service, a well-respected nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress. GovTrack did not write and has no control over these summaries.

1/6/2009--Introduced.

Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act or a state system certified under this Act and such license has not been invalidated or revoked. Prescribes license application, issuance, and renewal requirements.

Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearm unless the recipient presents a valid firearms license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number. Prescribes firearms transfer reporting and record keeping requirements. Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of sale system.

Prohibits: (1) transferring a firearm to any person other than a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a licensed dealer in accordance with national instant criminal background check system requirements, with exceptions; (2) a licensed manufacturer or dealer from failing to comply with reporting and record keeping requirements of this Act; (3) failing to report the loss or theft of the firearm to the Attorney General within 72 hours; (4) failing to report to the Attorney General an address change within 60 days; or (5) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklessly disregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access, if a child uses the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury.

Prescribes criminal penalties for violations of firearms provisions covered by this Act.

Directs the Attorney General to: (1) establish and maintain a firearm injury information clearinghouse; (2) conduct continuing studies and investigations of firearm-related deaths and injuries; and (3) collect and maintain current production and sales figures of each licensed manufacturer.

Authorizes the Attorney General to certify state firearm licensing or record of sale systems.
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Old 01-22-2009, 3:28 PM
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it would help if we could do a 2 or 3 character search....
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Old 01-22-2009, 3:29 PM
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do you have a link for this ??
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Old 01-22-2009, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sorensen440 View Post
do you have a link for this ??
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:h.r.00045:
H.R.45
Title: To provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Rush, Bobby L. [IL-1] (introduced 1/6/2009) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 1/6/2009 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
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Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

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Old 01-22-2009, 3:37 PM
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Old 01-22-2009, 3:37 PM
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Sorry guys for the duplicate.
Moderators please lock this thread.
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