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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:10 PM
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This is going to be a bill that has all sorts of issues especially the way it will be written. Besides treading on BATF territory, the author wants the purchase of a non-firearm (as defined by federal law) to be treated as if it is a firearm. I wonder if the BATF will say something about this bill? Another left wing bill from the inmates that are running the asylum in Sacramento.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umd View Post
I just got an email from FPC about this
Quote:
Our Capitol sources have confirmed that the intent of Gipson's AB XX (as it is currently planned) would be to define an “unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted to a finished frame or receiver” as a firearm and make it a misdemeanor crime to sell “unfinished” frames or receivers without an FFL and DOJ license.

Assemblyman Gipson's AB XX would apparently also require that “unfinished” frames and receivers be transferred through a licensed dealer, submitted through DROS, and subjected to an unconstitutional 10-day waiting period.
This is accurate.
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:26 PM
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just get rid of the 10 day wait, and I could care less about registering anything

thats the biggest reason I dont buy so many guns is the stupid 10 day wait

let that be for first time buyers, same with the safety certificates
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:33 PM
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Time to convert my mill to cnc...
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:51 PM
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Any links to said potential law? ANYTHING to go off of other than a random guy on a forum's word?
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:59 PM
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Once again the jack wagons in Sac are running amok.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
Any links to said potential law? ANYTHING to go off of other than a random guy on a forum's word?
Nothing is online yet, aside from a Firearms Policy Coalition email that provided basically the same info as my post.

If you want, call Gipson's office tomorrow and ask for the staffer handling the Precursor Lower Receiver bill.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_lover View Post
thats the biggest reason I dont buy so many guns is the stupid 10 day wait
So their plan is working
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalAlumnus View Post
A member of the Legislature plans to introduce a bill to define an "unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted to a finished frame or receiver" as a firearm.

This will make it a misdemeanor to sell unfinished frames or receivers without a license and prevent people from purchasing or possessing them without a background check.

The bill has not yet been introduced, so is not visible online.
Wonder how they will handle 3D printers, when there is nothing to "finish". As the technology gets better, it will make a better product, faster, and easier. Right now it's just a matter of the material it utilizes, but it's just months away from making a quality receiver (AR or 1911) that will stand up as strong as any currently on the market.
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #50  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:17 PM
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AK Receiver:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...sunami-warning!

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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #51  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:18 PM
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I guess they'd have to ban shovels too.

http://thechive.com/2012/12/06/appar...ing-25-photos/
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  #52  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
Wonder how they will handle 3D printers, when there is nothing to "finish". As the technology gets better, it will make a better product, faster, and easier. Right now it's just a matter of the material it utilizes, but it's just months away from making a quality receiver (AR or 1911) that will stand up as strong as any currently on the market.
There is a provision in ITAR for contrloling firearms info over the internet. It was posted up several months ago, but it is in there. Not sure how that would be used for a state law though. https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...related-speech

Quote:
Also regulated under ITAR are so-called "technical data" about defense articles. These include, among other things, "detailed design, development, production or manufacturing information" about firearms or ammunition. Specific examples of technical data are blueprints, drawings, photographs, plans, instructions or documentation.
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  #53  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:29 PM
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Info from this ARF link:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/182...n_The_PRK.html

Quote:
From: The Firearms Policy Coalition

To: The Law Abiding Gun Owners of CALIFORNIA, and beyond

[Jump To Reply]ALERT: Anti-Gun Bill To Regulate "Unfinished Frames" Forthcoming
Dear CALIFORNIAN GUN OWNERS,

Our FPC team has uncovered a new anti-gun bill -- AB XX (bill number TBD) -- that is planned to be introduced by Democrat Assemblyman Mike Gipson.

Gipson is currently requesting ("shopping" for) co-authors for his measure to regulate non-firearm materials like "80% lowers", potentially similar to Senator Kevin de León's failed "Ghost Gun" ban (SB 808, 2014).

Our Capitol sources have confirmed that the intent of Gipson's AB XX (as it is currently planned) would be to define an “unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted to a finished frame or receiver” as a firearm and make it a misdemeanor crime to sell “unfinished” frames or receivers without an FFL and DOJ license.

Assemblyman Gipson's AB XX would apparently also require that “unfinished” frames and receivers be transferred through a licensed dealer, submitted through DROS, and subjected to an unconstitutional 10-day waiting period.

That's right -- Assemblyman Gipson wants you undergo a background check, pay for a DROS transfer, and suffer a 10-day wait for a non-firearm chunk of aluminum or plastic.

We need your opposition to this insane bill NOW so that we can fight it hard from the ground floor TOMORROW.

Please sign our Take Action petition to OPPOSE AB XX tonight!
>> OPPOSE AB XX HERE https://www.firearmspolicy.org/petitions/abxx/

They really are coming for your guns and gun rights, CITIZENS!

Worse than that, Assemblyman Gipson apparently wants to incarcerate you for buying and selling pieces of aluminum or sheet metal that could potentially become guns.

But we've defeated this kind of knee-jerk insanity before. And we can defeat it again -- if you stand with us and FIGHT BACK.

Please sign our petition to oppose AB XX tonight and ask your friends and family to do the same.

For Freedom,


Richard Thomson
Grassroots Director
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  #54  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_lover View Post
just get rid of the 10 day wait, and I could care less about registering anything

thats the biggest reason I dont buy so many guns is the stupid 10 day wait

let that be for first time buyers, same with the safety certificates
You don't buy guns because you have to wait 10 days? But you don't care if your guns are registered? Weird.
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  #55  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowThudd View Post
There is a provision in ITAR for contrloling firearms info over the internet. It was posted up several months ago, but it is in there. Not sure how that would be used for a state law though. https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...related-speech
I know about that... but, creativity and ingenuity does not need to source from others over the internet. This law wishes to ban the hard items; for what the above does, this new law would also have to ban books. However, I'm not so sure this state is so opposed to such an idea.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #56  
Old 01-12-2016, 9:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalAlumnus View Post
A member of the Legislature plans to introduce a bill to define an "unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted to a finished frame or receiver" as a firearm.

This will make it a misdemeanor to sell unfinished frames or receivers without a license and prevent people from purchasing or possessing them without a background check.

The bill has not yet been introduced, so is not visible online.
I guess this outlaws 80 percenters?
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  #57  
Old 01-12-2016, 10:59 PM
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IF it passes, the lawsuit will be interesting. can a state redefine what a firearm is... cant see jerry signing this one, but he is a dem and you can never trust what a dem will do.
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  #58  
Old 01-13-2016, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
IF it passes, the lawsuit will be interesting. can a state redefine what a firearm is... cant see jerry signing this one, but he is a dem and you can never trust what a dem will do.
Given that a piece of string was once considered a machine gun, they might try something nutty like that.
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  #59  
Old 01-13-2016, 3:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossy View Post
IF it passes, the lawsuit will be interesting. can a state redefine what a firearm is... cant see jerry signing this one, but he is a dem and you can never trust what a dem will do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frotz View Post
Given that a piece of string was once considered a machine gun, they might try something nutty like that.
This is the point. They aren't redefining what constitutes a firearm, they're going to try to regulate an item based on its potential use. It's a doorstop. A paperweight. An "80%" lower, receiver, frame or any other term is simply a piece of metal that can be converted into a firearm. Then again, almost anything at all can be converted into a firearm with enough ingenuity. I don't think Brown will sign something like this because it has a wide open hole for a lawsuit, but Newsome might just be stupid enough to sign something so egregious it can get to SCOTUS and gut the whole thing, ala Heller or McDonald. There's a reason those cases originated in 2 of the most firearms-restrictive areas of the country, and not Wyoming.

The concept of an "80%" is vague anyway. It's an object the BATFE has deemed as close to a firearm, but not actually a firearm, therefore perfectly legal to sell without the need of a 4473. But, the manufacturer needed to go the BATFE and get confirmation, because one more hole and THEY'RE the ones facing jail time as well, so it's also a bit of self-protection. Its just a piece of paper indicating its not actually a firearm per BATFE definitions of a firearm. There really is no way to regulate it as a firearm, but that doesn't appear to be what's going on here. This seems more like an attempt to craft a new state level definition of something related to "constructive possession".

The state can regulate some items. Ever try buying a can of primer in California? Same concept, but the requirement to go through an FFL may be the limiting factor here. I can't be arrested for buying a can of spray paint from my neighbor or grabbing a can in another state that doesn't ask for an ID. Arresting me for buying a piece of metal that is shaped sort of like an AR lower might not pass the legal smell test. Airsoft guns also look sort of like an AR and I can buy that at Walgreens.

Then again, the nuclear level of vitriol the California legislature has shown towards gun owners is what pushed this to the forefront in the first place. They continue to try and eliminate firearms from the state by fiat, and we continue to find creative ways to make that effort a failure. Sooner or later, somebody is going to lose that arms race.
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  #60  
Old 01-13-2016, 9:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 707electrician View Post
First time Ive seen those. I might have to buy one just to weld it together as a piece of art
If you decide to build one, look up www.weaponsguild.com, they have lots of tips and hints to make the process easier and to get a successful build.

a few gotcha's to watch for;
Need to notch the side wall for the magazine index nub (before you assemble)
Stamp your indent info BEFORE assembly (less chance of bending something)
Need to figure out a plan for the take-down and safety detent and spring (the sidewall is not thick enough for the pin, and you can't drill that small, that deep through the steel anyway) braise in a piece of brass and drill that for the detent holder?
Alignment!!!!! Use a stripped upper as a jig for overall alignment of takedown pins and buffer tube
Pay attention to how much metal you are adding around the grip, you will have to grind it off later

and lastly, IT WILL BE HEAVY compared to aluminum.
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  #61  
Old 01-13-2016, 9:22 AM
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What about 79% lowers?
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  #62  
Old 01-13-2016, 9:38 AM
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Looks like that 80% router kit is going to be ordered soon. Imagine the stock prices for those companies by the end of the year?
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  #63  
Old 01-13-2016, 9:46 AM
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And also coming soon, felony Aluminum can recycling, centers will have to become FFL.

Serial # all soda cans, background check to purchase, only 10/yr.

AB XX link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4cGVuMtpL3KbPw
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  #64  
Old 01-13-2016, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
This is the point. They aren't redefining what constitutes a firearm, they're going to try to regulate an item based on its potential use. It's a doorstop. A paperweight. An "80%" lower, receiver, frame or any other term is simply a piece of metal that can be converted into a firearm. Then again, almost anything at all can be converted into a firearm with enough ingenuity. I don't think Brown will sign something like this because it has a wide open hole for a lawsuit, but Newsome might just be stupid enough to sign something so egregious it can get to SCOTUS and gut the whole thing, ala Heller or McDonald. There's a reason those cases originated in 2 of the most firearms-restrictive areas of the country, and not Wyoming.

The concept of an "80%" is vague anyway. It's an object the BATFE has deemed as close to a firearm, but not actually a firearm, therefore perfectly legal to sell without the need of a 4473. But, the manufacturer needed to go the BATFE and get confirmation, because one more hole and THEY'RE the ones facing jail time as well, so it's also a bit of self-protection. Its just a piece of paper indicating its not actually a firearm per BATFE definitions of a firearm. There really is no way to regulate it as a firearm, but that doesn't appear to be what's going on here. This seems more like an attempt to craft a new state level definition of something related to "constructive possession".

The state can regulate some items. Ever try buying a can of primer in California? Same concept, but the requirement to go through an FFL may be the limiting factor here. I can't be arrested for buying a can of spray paint from my neighbor or grabbing a can in another state that doesn't ask for an ID. Arresting me for buying a piece of metal that is shaped sort of like an AR lower might not pass the legal smell test. Airsoft guns also look sort of like an AR and I can buy that at Walgreens.

Then again, the nuclear level of vitriol the California legislature has shown towards gun owners is what pushed this to the forefront in the first place. They continue to try and eliminate firearms from the state by fiat, and we continue to find creative ways to make that effort a failure. Sooner or later, somebody is going to lose that arms race.
Airsoft guns brings up another point. I have seen a video on YouTube of someone converting a glock airsoft gun into an actual firearm with some hardware store metal and an actual slide.

This would also seem to be an issue.
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  #65  
Old 01-13-2016, 1:11 PM
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I wonder if this will affect steel pipes and screws? Those can be made into shotguns.
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  #66  
Old 01-13-2016, 1:21 PM
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While not banning the tools they could ban the process. For example it is illegal to make a gun that can't be detected by a metal detector. Of course this is a federal level thing but that won't stop CA from trying.

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Good luck with that... Next they'll ban drill presses and routers.

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  #67  
Old 01-13-2016, 7:41 PM
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This will be interesting...how can you accurately and consistently re-define a set of objects that are not firearms as firearms. And then apply all *state laws* that regulate firearms to those objects. 4473? Federal, wouldn't be appropriate ...would the NICS system even be available for a transaction that does not involve an object that the BATFE has already said is not a firearm? Too many issues to overcome here. Every machine shop in the state full of "guns" if something like this were to pass.
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  #68  
Old 01-13-2016, 10:10 PM
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a pipe can be used to build a full auto. home depot needs an FFL!!!!!!!
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  #69  
Old 01-13-2016, 10:14 PM
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I hope a thousand 7075 T6 blocks of alu 2" x 17" x 7" fall on that Legislaters dick!
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  #70  
Old 01-14-2016, 5:16 AM
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I always laugh when I read bs like this. Who cares if we build long guns out of these lowers long guns have only had to be registered since 2014. Suddenly its scary to have unregistered long guns?
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  #71  
Old 01-14-2016, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
Anybody with a mill and a block of aluminum is a precursor firearm dealer.
Heck, anybody with a 3" PVC pipe, lighter fluid and a potato is a possible manufacturer.
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  #72  
Old 01-14-2016, 7:06 AM
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Sac Bee re how Gipson sent grossly misleading mailer when he ran for Assembly...

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-co...le3936766.html
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  #73  
Old 01-14-2016, 11:55 AM
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i'm guessing all clerks at Nike Town should become 07 FFL / SOT ... they sell shoe strings
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  #74  
Old 01-14-2016, 12:12 PM
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I wonder how many politicians drive vehicles with aluminum blocks? If this passes can we execute citizens' arrests on them for possessing illegal firearms?
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  #75  
Old 01-14-2016, 12:29 PM
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Then there are these interesting projects



I know they will make a functional firearm.
Are these available for purchase? If so , where?
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:46 PM
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Are these available for purchase? If so , where?
Google image search produces http://www.theflatspot.net/ar-15-receiver-flat.html
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Old 01-14-2016, 3:31 PM
timdps timdps is online now
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Our Capitol sources have confirmed that the intent of Gipson's AB XX (as it is currently planned) would be to define an “unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be readily converted to a finished frame or receiver” as a firearm...
This already exists as a Fed (ATF) law, so we would have two laws worded the same, that mean two completely different things?

The very definition of unconstitutionally vague?

T
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Old 01-14-2016, 3:34 PM
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This already exists as a Fed (ATF) law, so we would have two laws worded the same, that mean two completely different things?

The very definition of unconstitutionally vague?

T
No, an unfinished frame which cannot be used in a working firearms is NOT a firearm by ATF regs,
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Old 01-14-2016, 6:18 PM
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Awesome! Thanks!
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Old 01-15-2016, 11:21 AM
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I hope a thousand 7075 T6 blocks of alu 2" x 17" x 7" fall on that Legislaters dick!
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Thanks for the addition to my sig.
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I hope a thousand 7075 T6 blocks of alu 2" x 17" x 7" fall on that Legislaters d***!
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