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  #41  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:04 PM
lvshooter lvshooter is offline
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We could use all different shapes(circles,octogons,squares,men shapes,etc.) so there is no target identification problems.
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  #42  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:05 PM
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...who's getting voted off the island this week?
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  #43  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:14 PM
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It was / is a great area.


Road down is fairly steep and travels behind some obstacles.




There are flat areas and hillsides.


I don't know that I'd "leave" anything out there for long that was valuable.
Temps at this shoot were never 'hot', winds (until later in the day) were light and we had a short rain shower. Comfortable day albeit 'not satisfying' for some.
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  #44  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam B. View Post
I see Randall sleeping on the hill. he didnt happin to roll away right?
I think I was actually shooting the last stage in that picture.
Wes is spotting off the top of the cooler to try to get a line-of-sight to the targets.
I'm pretty sure my bullets were within an inch of the rocks about 15yds in front of me as I could see the rocks were only 6 moa under my crosshair through the scope when I was aligned on target.
I could see two out of the three targets on that stage.
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  #45  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvshooter View Post
Sounds like another "area 51" shoot is long overdue. I will suppy all the steel targets needed
That looks like a good spot.
Great pics.
Anyone know the GPS coordinates?
I have a spot a lot closer and much better than where we wasted yesterday.

1000 dollars in targets huh? They saw you comin' Bruce.
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  #46  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:43 PM
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I have a spot a lot closer and much better than where we wasted yesterday.

1000 dollars in targets huh? They saw you comin' Bruce.
You so obviously have an axe to grind. Hey man, sorry you didn't win.

I've priced out the targets that Bruce used, and they are easily around $1000. They were hardened steel plates (except for the mystery target, which was a softer steel), one that was 10" X 12", one 18" X 24, and one mystery one with weird angles that Bruce yelled at me for asking about after the match (hey, I tried). With the stands, $1k is a good estimate. Were they $900? I don't know, but it's really splitting hairs.
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  #47  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacticalintervention View Post
I have a question or actually a few

Bruce Did you really not allow slings that provided support for shooting?

Did you refer to TIS Slings as a "Fad"?

What class did you graudate as Civilian 8541 from?

Did you complete the whole program?

Do you really think spotting scopes are not used in field by LE or Military Snipers?

Did you get a certificate form 8541 school?

Have you ever been LE or Military?
For what it's worth, I was using a TIS sling on my rifle. I simply removed the cuff portion. I really like your sling, and thank you for making a superior product. I bought it after seeing guys on Lighfighter really calling it "standard equipment".

I talked to Bruce about how important your slings are after the match. I believe it was a mistake not to allow your slings (in their entirety), in the competition. The truth is though, that all shooting was done prone, and having one of your awesome slings may not have been the advantage it would have been in a standing or sitting position. But, I'm a novice really, so please don't mistake that for an educated opinion.

Thanks again.

SoundFX
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  #48  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:56 PM
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i personnaly would like the last questions answered about civilian 8541, ect...
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  #49  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFX View Post
You so obviously have an axe to grind. Hey man, sorry you didn't win.

I've priced out the targets that Bruce used, and they are easily around $1000. They were hardened steel plates (except for the mystery target, which was a softer steel), one that was 10" X 12", one 18" X 24, and one mystery one with weird angles that Bruce yelled at me for asking about after the match (hey, I tried). With the stands, $1k is a good estimate. Were they $900? I don't know, but it's really splitting hairs.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL...how about I give you a deal on the same set of targets for 800?

HOOK YOU UP.

Drink some more cool aid man... why dont you price those targets out on

http://www.lvsteeltargets.com/main.htm
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  #50  
Old 10-19-2008, 3:58 PM
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10x17x1/2" = 95.00
25"x15x1/2" = 165.00

Thats 1/2" AR500 Plate
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  #51  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:01 PM
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I have no axe to grind. Had I finished first, I still would have posted about him ripping us off for a pathetic match. Finishing second overall while shooting with no partner and having 4 of my hits thrown out is fine by me. Maybe someday when you shoot a real match you'll understand why we're upset.
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  #52  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:01 PM
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Tell you what...I will even be generous...lets make that POS mystery target AR500 as well..looks like a big target. We'll call it another 25x15x1/2" for another 165.00

Total is 425.00

And from the sweet stand with rocks on them....50.00 per...IF that.
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  #53  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:02 PM
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Vu, its no use. These guys don't have a clue.
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  #54  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:04 PM
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Hey, that's a COOL link. Those are great prices. But, how much is shipping?

The ones I looked at were MUCH more expensive than the prices you listed. That's my fault for not really shopping around. Thank you for sharing such a good link.
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  #55  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
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But, how much is shipping?
Pick them up from Kurt himself when you go shoot a Vegas match.
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  #56  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:10 PM
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How does one find out about the Vegas matches? What kind of matches are they? Sorry for the dumb question. I don't do a lot of this kind of thing, and would like to do more.
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  #57  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFX View Post
How does one find out about the Vegas matches? What kind of matches are they? Sorry for the dumb question. I don't do a lot of this kind of thing, and would like to do more.
They're really good matches. Matches that will make you laugh at what we did on saturday. Check this subforum and you'll find info on the next match.

ETA: Was this xtreme match your first match?
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  #58  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:15 PM
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FX...everyone is glad to share info here but lets not pop off about grinding axes and BS...if you think Bruce's gig was decent...got Kurts, Twolfs, or Marks match down in the So Cal area.

They may not be EXTREME but they put on a good show that allows the shooter to hone their skills and have a good time for like 20.00.

Just to give you an idea...our first TBRC was 100.00

BBQ and 15K in prizes. 2 days of competition on a world class range.
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  #59  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Vu 308 View Post
FX...everyone is glad to share info here but lets not pop off about grinding axes and BS...if you think Bruce's gig was decent...got Kurts, Twolfs, or Marks match down in the So Cal area.

They may not be EXTREME but they put on a good show that allows the shooter to hone their skills and have a good time for like 20.00.

Just to give you an idea...our first TBRC was 100.00

BBQ and 15K in prizes. 2 days of competition on a world class range.
Dude, square range, dont mean ****.
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  #60  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:32 PM
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LV Steel:
Sounds like another "area 51" shoot is long overdue. I will suppy all the steel targets needed
That looks like a good spot.


I was thinking the same thing. I think the last spot where we hosted AREA 51 was fine and we really didn't have to be concerned with riders.

Between an Area 51 Match, SCPRC, TBRC and hopefully a SIN CITY Match, that would be 4 matches for 2009.

I already see a price increase for the SCPRC for 2009. A $150 for the last two years, I'm going to a $175. If a one day match can fetch $100 bucks, I am sure 2 days of shooting with night shooting, Tri-Tip and a healthy prize table is more than worth $175. And a Starbucks down the road too, but that's just for the Frog.

Mark
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  #61  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:34 PM
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Woopty woop! At least your coins aren't chocolate Mark.
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  #62  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:40 PM
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I'm not going to be dishonest. It was my first match. But, I felt like the preparation my partner and I did was very helpful, and aided us in our most narrow of victories. I liked the fact that it was difficult. I liked the fact that the conditions were often inhospitable. I liked the fact that we had to guess as to how much our dope would change with the angles and wind. I liked that it was up to us to bring enough water and food. I liked that the place was AWESOME. I liked that it was up to us to choose a spot, and if we chose unwisely, that choice came back to haunt or help us. I also liked that Bruce made sure the playing field was pretty even, so that the .338 and .300 Win Mag guys couldn't dominate us if they only had equal shooting skills. I liked that Bruce has such cool friends that they took an ENTIRE day of their busy lives (these guys are NOT LOSERS) to help us have a good time, and ensure that the match was conducted as fairly as possible. I liked a lot of stuff.

There were things I didn't agree with, and things that could be made to be more efficient. But, overall, I think it was a really good value, and I'd do it again even knowing that nothing would change.

What doesn't really entice me, is the idea of bench rest competition with guys that want caterers bringing glasses of lemonade. No roach coach. If I wanted to do that, we can put on something at Angeles. For me, and I know not everyone feels this way, I want a competition where people are knocked out of their comfort zone. When we're ALL knocked out of that zone, then it's still fair, IMHO. Hope that makes sense.
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  #63  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:41 PM
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Bro..come on now..some folks are PO........
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  #64  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:47 PM
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Thank You Cpt. Creedmore

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  #65  
Old 10-19-2008, 4:50 PM
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VU,

They ARE. It's true. I'm actually really upset that people are so angry. I didn't know that this much unhappiness was under the surface. There was one guy who didn't want to be part of the group photo, he seemed really put out. But everyone else (at least from what little I saw) didn't appear very vocal in their dissatisfaction at the time.

I am not going to say that anybody's feelings are ridiculous, they aren't. I didn't experience things from their point of view. BUT, and I said this before, the BEST shooter in the group (not me or my partner) took it all with a grain of salt.

I really do WISH that you all had a wonderful time. I'm sorry that didn't happen. Perhaps the best thing to do is add some comments to the "Constructive Criticism" thread? I will add mine.
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  #66  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:03 PM
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Man, all this focus on slings and spotters is really unimportant, and not the real point. You want no sling cuffs? Fine. No rear bags? Fine. Not spotting scopes? Fine. You want to shoot ridiculous positions in a support order that makes no sense? Fine. You look like an idiot, but fine. So long as we all do the same thing, its a fair chance to all.

I'm disappointing because of three things.

ONE:
It was not properly made clear where the targets would be, it was vague at best. I personally heard Bruce and the ROs tell different shooters different things. How hard would it have been to put up two small wooden stakes with orange flags and say the targets would be between them? If you can see the road between them you'll be GTG. No, I guess that wasn't xxxtreeeem enough. It wasn't clear and so some of us were penalized because we made an unlucky choice. I could've taken a 0 or a DQ on Stage Three, it wouldn't matter as I couldn't see the targets at all. So I chose to move and shoot. Screw it.

FWIW, I had to move on Stage 4 too... about 30 feet from my initial shooting position because I couldn't see more than 1 target, and that one barely... as it was I could only see 2. If Bruce ever got out of his damn lawn chair and walked the line, he'd have DQ'd me again. By that point, I didn't care any more.. the match for me was a pathetic joke. All I wanted to do was shoot and leave.

It shouldn't have mattered anyway because this was billed as a shooting competition! Not a sniper operational sim. We should all have been shooting from the same location at the same range! Choosing a location when your target position is unknown is not a skill, and especially not a shooting skill. Its a lottery. We were spread out over more than 100 yards, that puts some people quite a good distance closer to the targets than others. Sure, its easy to complain if you made an unlucky choice. Its also easy to defend if you had the advantage. I wonder how we'd be handling this if the outcome was reversed? I can honestly say for my part, that if I saw anyone at that big of a disadvantage I'd be complaining to Bruce about it being unfair.

And WTF! What teamwork was involved, really? We were placed and scored in teams but what teamwork was there? Spotting? Please, we could've all spotted for each other anyway and it wouldn't have made a difference. I've shot team matches before... this wasn't one of them.

TWO:
The ROs were clearly not trained or experienced. Where were the proper timers? Were were the clear and loud range commands? I had to ask every single time if I could shoot because of the mumbling and inconsistent commands. Weren't these guys paid to be out there? That's what I heard. If that's the case, I don't feel too bad for them "giving up" their time for this. If its not, well they still lost less than I did!


THREE:
The set up was not SAFE. There is a sanctioned 180-rule in every competition I've been involved in. Evidently Bruce hasn't heard of that--even though he made a big noise about muzzle control. In the later stages people were literally shooting over my shoulder, forcing me to scramble up the hill to get out of the line of fire.


Lastly, (I guess 4 things) I spent 13 hours at this comp and shot only 40 rounds shooting at the same 3 targets


Not much of a comp. 90% of my time was sitting on my *** waiting to shoot. Boring.
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  #67  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
LV Steel:
[B]

I already see a price increase for the SCPRC for 2009. A $150 for the last two years, I'm going to a $175. If a one day match can fetch $100 bucks, I am sure 2 days of shooting with night shooting, Tri-Tip and a healthy prize table is more than worth $175. And a Starbucks down the road too, but that's just for the Frog.

Mark
Great. now matches are going to cost more based on this.
Leave it to the Spaniard.
For me it's nice to have food and drinks at a match but I don't think it's nessarsary. From a match directors point of view putting on a match is a lot of work as it is let alone feeding everyone. If I end up doing a big match next year it will be water and mabey cold hot dogs (bring your own buns)..
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  #68  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:23 PM
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SoundFX-
I hope to see you and your partner at the ITRC in Wyoming next year. Ryan you know I would have shot with you in a heart beat even though I told you I thought it was going to be a joke ( but thanks for not pushing ). Do not forget that the help was paid, they were not out there for free and they also waisted money on magnetic signs for their trucks, As targets go , when the area 51 match comes around,I have about $2,000,000.00 in targets that you can use. Mike also has a **** load. We have shot 338 lapuas at them at 100 yrds and no marks-so they are good targets. With trying to be XTREME-STOP IT it just gay, we are not snipers, its just a game, so lets stop trying to make stupid rules to make the bottom half feel good about themselves and just go back to SHOOT WHAT YOU HAVE. When a MD puts on a match with this type of sillyness pretty soon it will become what everyone says they do not want it to be - IPSC or an equipment race. And as far as not making money- tough sh*t. You should of made bank for what you really put out. Yes I have been to matches where the fee was $150.00 and Randy had 40 ARs on the table and a bunch more of uppers plus everything else.
All this being said, how about a match that lets you figuare out what would be the best rifle/caliber to use, what gear to use and how to shoot the COF along with some standards like rangeing?
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Old 10-19-2008, 5:25 PM
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Old 10-19-2008, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DON AUGUSTINE View Post
SoundFX-
When a MD puts on a match with this type of sillyness pretty soon it will become what everyone says they do not want it to be - IPSC or an equipment race. And as far as not making money- tough sh*t. You should of made bank for what you really put out. Yes I have been to matches where the fee was $150.00 and Randy had 40 ARs on the table and a bunch more of uppers plus everything else.
All this being said, how about a match that lets you figuare out what would be the best rifle/caliber to use, what gear to use and how to shoot the COF along with some standards like rangeing?
Dude, I was shooting an SPR with a Horus, and my partner was shooting a stock Remington 5R (I think) with a Super Sniper. It's not like we had AI AW's and S&B's. Although, I saw at least one of them (AI's). That, and we were ALL ranging the targets with our scopes. Don't comment on what you don't know.

Last edited by SoundFX; 10-19-2008 at 5:32 PM..
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  #71  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:32 PM
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No, you actually saw an AI AE
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  #72  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:37 PM
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Mark your Starbucks closed down! Back down to $100 for you!
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  #73  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:38 PM
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read the whole post. I dont care what you were shooting or if you can range.
I said I want to see the matches here in Cali be somewhat in line of the matches across the U.S. And I do know and that is why I an commenting. This type of sillyness will hurt this sport especially in Cali.
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  #74  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:40 PM
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All the other AIs were 700s in AICSs, honestly it was a pretty level playing field equipment wise. Hell my partner was shooting a used 700P with a shot out barrel!
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  #75  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFX View Post
VU,

They ARE. It's true. I'm actually really upset that people are so angry. I didn't know that this much unhappiness was under the surface. There was one guy who didn't want to be part of the group photo, he seemed really put out. But everyone else (at least from what little I saw) didn't appear very vocal in their dissatisfaction at the time.

I am not going to say that anybody's feelings are ridiculous, they aren't. I didn't experience things from their point of view. BUT, and I said this before, the BEST shooter in the group (not me or my partner) took it all with a grain of salt.

I really do WISH that you all had a wonderful time. I'm sorry that didn't happen. Perhaps the best thing to do is add some comments to the "Constructive Criticism" thread? I will add mine.
People have EVERY right to be upset. Put it this way man...I have not EVER seen a match get this type of flaming EVER. I mean EVER! The is no such thing as a perfect match, ask Don A...he has shot more matches than all of us combined.

That being said it is up to the match director and crew to insure

1. SAFETY...with shooters spread over 100yards there is no way in hell an RO can keep an eye on the line ensure safety.

Was there a medical evac plan given to the shooters? What if someone broke a leg on that extreme terrain? What if someone got bitten by a snake or scorpion? How far out were you from medical attention?

What if someone forgot their medication?

What was the nearest hospital to your AO?

Was a first aid kit made available and known to all competitors?

People riding ATVs and Dirt bikes in the impact zone? How about a HELL NO. You are shooting HP rifles with targets along a road. Seriously? No GO in my book.

Did he even have a permit to conduct a paid event on BLM land?


2. COF is fair and equal to ALL shooters. I am sure you would sing a different tune if you were the guy that couldnt see the targets that needed to be shot.

Two markers would of been pretty cheap and easy to put up so that ALL shooters could see the lane of fire and picked firing positions.

3. As little down time between stages and shooters as possible.

25 pages and 40 hours planning? Serious?

Gee with the format he presented...12 targets.

Each set of 3 painted different colors.

Range and engage Red Set. Range and engage blue set. Range and engage orange set. Range and engage white set.

WOW..could of shot the whole freaking COF in about 1.5 hours.

I just pulled that out my arse in about 5 minutes of planning knowing the set up he wanted to use. 40 hours of what? Coming up with that cheezy logo for his car?

Give me a freaking break man.


And now that Novadesign pointed out he was nice and comfy in his freaking lawn chair.....that is the cherry on top....what a joke.
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  #76  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:49 PM
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Dude, I was shooting an SPR with a Horus, and my partner was shooting a stock Remington 5R (I think) with a Super Sniper. It's not like we had AI AW's and S&B's. Although, I saw at least one of them (AI's). That, and we were ALL ranging the targets with our scopes. Don't comment on what you don't know.
You already said this was your first match, and from the sound of things, I think its confirmed you don't know jack SH**. Take your own advice and delete all of your posts because your commenting on things that you know NOTHING about.

You could eat sh** all your life and never think anything of it...you may actually think it tastes good. But until you try something better, you'll never know.
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  #77  
Old 10-19-2008, 5:51 PM
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3. As little down time between stages and shooters as possible.

25 pages and 40 hours planning? Serious?

Gee with the format he presented...12 targets.

Each set of 3 painted different colors.

Range and engage Red Set. Range and engage blue set. Range and engage orange set. Range and engage white set.

WOW..could of shot the whole freaking COF in about 1.5 hours.

I just pulled that out my arse in about 5 minutes of planning knowing the set up he wanted to use. 40 hours of what? Coming up with that cheezy logo for his car?

Give me a freaking break man.


And now that Novadesign pointed out he was nice and comfy in his freaking lawn chair.....that is the cherry on top....what a joke.
The clueless can't see through the sh** that Bruce puts out. They eat that sh** and like it.
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Old 10-19-2008, 6:01 PM
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You already said this was your first match, and from the sound of things, I think its confirmed you don't know jack SH**. Take your own advice and delete all of your posts because your commenting on things that you know NOTHING about.

You could eat sh** all your life and never think anything of it...you may actually think it tastes good. But until you try something better, you'll never know.
Ok there, tiger....

You don't know me, and just because it was my first match doesn't mean I'm stupid.

Last edited by SoundFX; 10-19-2008 at 6:03 PM..
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Old 10-19-2008, 6:11 PM
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SoundFX, listen I don't think you're stupid. But you are inexperienced. I think the point is you're in here defending the guy and the match when you really don't know what its supposed to be like at a match. Bruce has no idea what he is doing, and that match as run was sloppy, unfair and frankly unsafe.

Come to one of the better run matches that have been around for a while and you will see what we are so upset about. Norcal, WEGC or APS. Any of them will show you how messed up Bruce's affair was.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who won or where we shot the match. Ryan is a very experienced and quite good shooter, not at all a person to come in here and throw a fit. Don Augustine has more experience in competition shooting than any 20 people in here combined. You really need to step back and listen to what these guys are telling you.
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Old 10-19-2008, 6:11 PM
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You don't know me, and just because it was my first match doesn't mean I'm stupid.
No, not because it was your first match, but from the nonsense you keep posting.
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