Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > California handguns
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:00 PM
surfingpl's Avatar
surfingpl surfingpl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Shooting down and to the left

I just bought a Glock 19. It's the first handgun I have ever owned. I have shot a few different handguns in the past, including 3 different full size Glocks, and I have been a pretty good shot. When I went to the range last Friday for the first time with my new gun I was surprised that I was shooting low and to the left every time. I did a little research and came up with some info about when you grip the gun tightly, your pinky and ring finger can tend to pull the barrel down and left? I have never had this problem before. Have any of you experienced this? Do you have any suggestions? I am 6'6" and have long fingers, and this is compact gun - not sure if that has any affect on this. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:10 PM
DDRH's Avatar
DDRH DDRH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,970
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfingpl View Post
I just bought a Glock 19. It's the first handgun I have ever owned. I have shot a few different handguns in the past, including 3 different full size Glocks, and I have been a pretty good shot. When I went to the range last Friday for the first time with my new gun I was surprised that I was shooting low and to the left every time. I did a little research and came up with some info about when you grip the gun tightly, your pinky and ring finger can tend to pull the barrel down and left? I have never had this problem before. Have any of you experienced this? Do you have any suggestions? I am 6'6" and have long fingers, and this is compact gun - not sure if that has any affect on this. Thanks.
I notice i have the same issue too...my ring finger and pinky tend to pull my aim to the lower right...i just compensate by squeezing my ring and pinky fingers tighter (gripping tighter with your ring/pinky fingers)...but also compensate with my left hand...

i've been practicing without the mag in the gun so i can see and adjust my bad habbits...snap caps help alot too. I have an MP45, and the trigger sucks compared to the Glocks i've tried...heavy trigger. I've tried a G21C, trigger is much lighter and shorter...i was shooting much closer groups with it. takes a lotta practice with the MP45...but that's just me.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:10 PM
JBird33's Avatar
JBird33 JBird33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 562
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I don't know if I have ever heard of a newer shooter who doesn't shoot low and left with a Glock. Practice a lot of dry firing, watch your front sight and make sure it doesn't move. Put only the end of your finger on the trigger, and try not to tighten your grip as you pull the trigger.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:12 PM
rawb rawb is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Highland, Ca
Posts: 93
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Check this link out.
http://bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

Hope it helps.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:14 PM
DDRH's Avatar
DDRH DDRH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,970
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

I'd like to also add...try and experiment with what you're comfy with...get some advice and try out different grips...everyone's got different hands...one way may work for you and not for someone else...

I'd have to agree with JBird33...practice, practice, practice...make sure your front sights stay still. Oh, and Congrats on the new Glock!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:23 PM
DDRH's Avatar
DDRH DDRH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,970
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawb View Post
Check this link out.
http://bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

Hope it helps.
Coo link!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:28 PM
rayra rayra is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,747
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Pulling with your offhand / anticipating recoil / flinch, providing your sights are set correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:30 PM
rayra rayra is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,747
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I'd also have another decent shooter fire a couple groups as well, to see if the pistol shoots differently or the same for them, as part of the diagnosis.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:32 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,263
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Make sure you're pulling the trigger with the tip of your index finger rather than squeezing it. I remember having that issue, and that's what my mistake was. Be grateful it's being corrected by a nice Calgunner rather than a drill sergeant
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:35 PM
randy randy is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Santa Clarita, CA & Winnemucca, NV
Posts: 4,643
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I'm assuming you are right handed. If so you are jerking the trigger. That is your shooting low problem. The left part is you have too much finger on the trigger.
__________________
I move slow but I make up for it by shooting poorly.

When I hit the lotto I'm only shooting factory.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:44 PM
stphnman20's Avatar
stphnman20 stphnman20 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SCV
Posts: 6,624
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Dont pull the trigger, squeeze the trigger..

My best advise to you guys, is to dry fire you weapon.. If your sites move while dry firing then, its not the gun, it's operator error. Keep Dry firing till the sties dont move.. Also buy some Snap Cap and tell a buddy to mix it in your mag along with ammo.. Dont look while he is loading your mag..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-14-2008, 12:55 PM
surfingpl's Avatar
surfingpl surfingpl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate your input. Yes I am right handed, and now that I think about it, I was not using the tip of my finger because it is more comfortable to have more finger on the trigger, so I will need to get used concentrating on that. Also I did notice when I pulled the trigger slowly to the point where it is close to firing, my accuracy improved. Also, great link rawb.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-14-2008, 1:34 PM
ricknadine1111's Avatar
ricknadine1111 ricknadine1111 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,282
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Try this load your pistol with a empty round along with your normal rounds and shoot as soon as you fire the empty round check your hand position and see if you are pushing the pistol in anticipation of the shot, you can also do a drill to clear your pistol and get back to fireing it, or you can take this class-

I just found out everything ( all the bad habits) I had been teaching myself was wrong, well almost everything about shooting a pistol. I just accomplished this basic handgun course at http://www.ftatv.com/
[FIREARMS TRAINING ASSOCIATES] and received this-
Now let me tell you about this course, it is two days saturday and sunday and is from nine am to five pm. The Saturday class is lecture and safety for the first few hours then lunch then you will shoot up to 200 to 250 rounds at paper targets. The Saturday drills accomplish correct draw, clear, slap, and fire and you progress up to a controlled pair with the correct finger,trigger control, this is where I learned how to release the trigger on my Nighthawk only to the release point then resqueze where I had been slapping the trigger before from going to the range on my own and always releasing it then taking another shot, also they teach correct front sight focus with repeated shooting from the 3,5,7,10,15 yard marks expanding your shooting to two targets with a controlled pair and a single head shot. The Sunday course consisted of short lecture in the morning then rehash of the Saturday course and then paper targets up to three controlled shots from the 3,5,7 yard marks then paper targets progressing up to shooting two then three targets from the 7 yard marks progressing to controlled pair on each target with a single head shot, then you go to the steel targets and accomplish close to the same drills there from the 10 and 15 yard markers. Then after lunch you accomplish the failure drills with your pistol in the first stage, second stage, and third stage with live fire. This is followed by shooting on the move at paper targets while walking forward from the 25 yard marker and engaging the single target with controlled pair when told to by the range master and when close to the 3 yard marker taking the single head shot then repeating this while walking in reverse back to the 25 yard marker (one of the other guys at the range has a finger in your back belt loop and watches the line so nobody gets ahead of the other persons fireing at the same time) they also teach you how to walk correctly in reverse and forward when shooting. Then there are drill movements while walking from the left to right and then right to left engageing up to three targets while on the move and useing a controlled pair on each target,(remember this is live fire exercise). So far all shooting had been done with the two hand hold but on the right to left walking movement exercise the pistol was in the single hand hold and I was taught how to correctly hold the pistol while fireing a controlled pair at the three targets while walking. The next class was engaging targets from the 3,5,7,10,15,and 25 yard line with a controled pair and a single head shot, then it was clear weapons and receive the well earned certificate. I will be going to the advanced handgun course without mention and I have allready paid a holding fee. This course is 10 percent off if paid in full ten days before the class starts and 20 percent off once you have accommplished a class and take others. I can not stress this enough you have to take a course with your pistol to see what you are doing wrong and what to do right. I did
__________________
__________________
WHERED IT GO !, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LEAD.LETER SEE ,UP 40 CLICKS AND LEFT 20 CLICKS," OH DARN, I DUNO WHERE IT IS?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:24 PM
surfingpl's Avatar
surfingpl surfingpl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Wow that sounds like a really good class. I may be interested in something like that in San Diego, depending on how expensive it is. I'm sure it's worth it though. Thanks for sharing that.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:27 PM
ricknadine1111's Avatar
ricknadine1111 ricknadine1111 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,282
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfingpl View Post
Wow that sounds like a really good class. I may be interested in something like that in San Diego, depending on how expensive it is. I'm sure it's worth it though. Thanks for sharing that.
You need to go to this school up near Riverside/ Ontario. It's great training for $295.00 + your cost at 500 rounds of ammo. Oh. yea a hotel room for saturday night also unless you sleep in your car.
__________________
WHERED IT GO !, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LEAD.LETER SEE ,UP 40 CLICKS AND LEFT 20 CLICKS," OH DARN, I DUNO WHERE IT IS?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:31 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,263
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stphnman20 View Post
Also buy some Snap Cap and tell a buddy to mix it in your mag along with ammo.. Dont look while he is loading your mag..
That is actually a great idea. That's how my girlfriend learnt not to anticipate the recoil - one of the rounds misfired, and so instead of a bang she heard a click, and now she just imagines there'll be a click, not a bang
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:34 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,263
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknadine1111 View Post
You need to go to this school up near Riverside/ Ontario. It's great training for $295.00 + your cost at 500 rounds of ammo. Oh. yea a hotel room for saturday night also unless you sleep in your car.
Their site says it's in Corona, I can't find the one in RIverside/Ontario.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:37 PM
nick nick is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,263
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

It's past Riverside, never mind. My bad, I don't know that area all that well.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:38 PM
Black Majik's Avatar
Black Majik Black Majik is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,421
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

While training is great, you won't be working on your marksmanship from a defensive oriented class. Draw, shoot, scan, access doesn't teach prep the trigger, break the shot, and reset.

It can be even simpler and cheaper to find a local range that holds basic handgun courses. It'll go over basic hangun handling as well as marksmanship, and you can even have 1 on 1 instruction with an instructor.

An NRA course would also be very beneficial as well.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:42 PM
ricknadine1111's Avatar
ricknadine1111 ricknadine1111 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,282
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
Their site says it's in Corona, I can't find the one in RIverside/Ontario.
Sorry it's in Corona and don't say no it's a great course tought by the instructor who instructs the special forces in tactics.
__________________
WHERED IT GO !, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LEAD.LETER SEE ,UP 40 CLICKS AND LEFT 20 CLICKS," OH DARN, I DUNO WHERE IT IS?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:46 PM
Black Majik's Avatar
Black Majik Black Majik is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,421
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknadine1111 View Post
Sorry it's in Corona and don't say no it's a great course tought by the instructor who instructs the special forces in tactics.
"All instructors teach the special forces."

But, Bill Murphy and the crew at FTA are top notch.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:48 PM
ricknadine1111's Avatar
ricknadine1111 ricknadine1111 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,282
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
Their site says it's in Corona, I can't find the one in RIverside/Ontario.
Sorry it's in Corona and don't say no it's a great course tought by the instructor who instructs the special forces in tactics.
__________________
WHERED IT GO !, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LEAD.LETER SEE ,UP 40 CLICKS AND LEFT 20 CLICKS," OH DARN, I DUNO WHERE IT IS?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:56 PM
Splinter Splinter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: OC
Posts: 524
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfingpl View Post
Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate your input. Yes I am right handed, and now that I think about it, I was not using the tip of my finger because it is more comfortable to have more finger on the trigger, so I will need to get used concentrating on that. Also I did notice when I pulled the trigger slowly to the point where it is close to firing, my accuracy improved. Also, great link rawb.
Where your finger is on the trigger is not as important as making sure you are pulling the trigger straight back. I put more finger on heavier triggers, sometimes to the crease. No difference as long as I move the trigger straight back. Do some reading, some dry firing, and spend the money on ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-14-2008, 2:58 PM
ricknadine1111's Avatar
ricknadine1111 ricknadine1111 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,282
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Majik View Post
While training is great, you won't be working on your marksmanship from a defensive oriented class. Draw, shoot, scan, access doesn't teach prep the trigger, break the shot, and reset.

It can be even simpler and cheaper to find a local range that holds basic handgun courses. It'll go over basic hangun handling as well as marksmanship, and you can even have 1 on 1 instruction with an instructor.

An NRA course would also be very beneficial as well.
Wrong, they were all about the trigger in fact an instructor holds a finger over the trigger while you squeeze to help you find the reset and after every shot they have you reset or you get (yelled at)spoken to about it. I didn't even know about it untill I took this class and felt it I had been learning wrong useing the slap method of releasing the trigger all the way before squeezing it again for my second shot. I was also caught milking a cow.
__________________
WHERED IT GO !, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LEAD.LETER SEE ,UP 40 CLICKS AND LEFT 20 CLICKS," OH DARN, I DUNO WHERE IT IS?

Last edited by ricknadine1111; 10-14-2008 at 3:01 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-14-2008, 3:14 PM
Black Majik's Avatar
Black Majik Black Majik is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,421
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknadine1111 View Post
Wrong, they were all about the trigger in fact an instructor holds a finger over the trigger while you squeeze to help you find the reset and after every shot they have you reset or you get (yelled at)spoken to about it. I didn't even know about it untill I took this class and felt it I had been learning wrong useing the slap method of releasing the trigger all the way before squeezing it again for my second shot. I was also caught milking a cow.

Learning the reset on your trigger is crucial to shooting a controlled pair, as well as shooting a group. However from your review of the course below... I'm not sure where slapping the trigger aids in Marksmanship. I've gone to FTA also, there are better courses to teach Marksmanship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknadine1111 View Post
Try this load your pistol with a empty round along with your normal rounds and shoot as soon as you fire the empty round check your hand position and see if you are pushing the pistol in anticipation of the shot, you can also do a drill to clear your pistol and get back to fireing it, or you can take this class-

I just found out everything ( all the bad habits) I had been teaching myself was wrong, well almost everything about shooting a pistol. I just accomplished this basic handgun course at http://www.ftatv.com/
[FIREARMS TRAINING ASSOCIATES]

Now let me tell you about this course, it is two days saturday and sunday and is from nine am to five pm. The Saturday class is lecture and safety for the first few hours then lunch then you will shoot up to 200 to 250 rounds at paper targets. The Saturday drills accomplish correct draw, clear, slap, and fire and you progress up to a controlled pair with the correct finger,trigger control, this is where I learned how to release the trigger on my Nighthawk only to the release point then resqueze where I had been slapping the trigger before from going to the range on my own and always releasing it then taking another shot, also they teach correct front sight focus with repeated shooting from the 3,5,7,10,15 yard marks expanding your shooting to two targets with a controlled pair and a single head shot. The Sunday course consisted of short lecture in the morning then rehash of the Saturday course and then paper targets up to three controlled shots from the 3,5,7 yard marks then paper targets progressing up to shooting two then three targets from the 7 yard marks progressing to controlled pair on each target with a single head shot, then you go to the steel targets and accomplish close to the same drills there from the 10 and 15 yard markers. Then after lunch you accomplish the failure drills with your pistol in the first stage, second stage, and third stage with live fire. This is followed by shooting on the move at paper targets while walking forward from the 25 yard marker and engaging the single target with controlled pair when told to by the range master and when close to the 3 yard marker taking the single head shot then repeating this while walking in reverse back to the 25 yard marker (one of the other guys at the range has a finger in your back belt loop and watches the line so nobody gets ahead of the other persons fireing at the same time) they also teach you how to walk correctly in reverse and forward when shooting. Then there are drill movements while walking from the left to right and then right to left engageing up to three targets while on the move and useing a controlled pair on each target,(remember this is live fire exercise). So far all shooting had been done with the two hand hold but on the right to left walking movement exercise the pistol was in the single hand hold and I was taught how to correctly hold the pistol while fireing a controlled pair at the three targets while walking. The next class was engaging targets from the 3,5,7,10,15,and 25 yard line with a controled pair and a single head shot, then it was clear weapons and receive the well earned certificate. I will be going to the advanced handgun course without mention and I have allready paid a holding fee. This course is 10 percent off if paid in full ten days before the class starts and 20 percent off once you have accommplished a class and take others. I can not stress this enough you have to take a course with your pistol to see what you are doing wrong and what to do right. I did
__________________

As highlighted, slapping the trigger will not aid in shooting a tight, tight group. The course focuses on drawing from the holster and shooting in a defensive situation. My recommendation to the OP was to get a different type of instruction. One that focuses on basic marksmanship with all the time in the world.

It's two different aspects of shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-14-2008, 3:14 PM
BamBam-31's Avatar
BamBam-31 BamBam-31 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,179
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Low-left is almost always an indication of flinch. As mentioned, too much trigger finger on the trigger (use only the pad of your finger, not the joint), anticipation of recoil, jerking instead of squeezing the trigger, etc., all lead to flinch.

Dry fire is the best cure for a flinch. Shooting .22's is also a great training aid, as the mechanics in shooting a .22 accurately are the same as shooting a centerfire accurately, only w/o the flinch-inducing recoil. Dry fire to program your muscle-memory to do nothing other than squeeze the trigger--that way, you can allot 100% of your concentration to holding proper sight alignment (while controlling your breathing) as you squeeeeeeeezzzeeee. When the shot goes off, it should be a surprise. In fact, you should pretend there's no round in the chamber, that when the trigger finally breaks, NOTHING happens. Make sure you note where the front sight was in relation to the target the moment the shot goes off ("calling your shot"). Glocks were made to be dry fired, so dry fire the heck out of your G19.

Black Majik is right--a defensive handgun class will teach you tactics more than basic marksmanship skills. Highly recommend, but not right now. Dry fire around 100 times per live round fired (meaning, if you're gonna shoot 100 rds. on Saturday, better get started on your 10,000 trigger pull homework during the week). Make sure your gun's unloaded, then make sure again. Remove ALL ammo from whatever room you're dry firing in. Pick a small spot on the wall to aim at, then steady your sights on that spot (make sure the edges of the front sight are focused razor sharp--DO NOT focus on the target), then squeeeeeezzzzeeee....click. Rack and repeat.

Put in the dry fire hours. Every good shooter has. You'll be amazed at how much of a difference it makes. Best thing is, it's FREE.

ETA: Learning trigger reset has nothing to do with accurate shooting and everything to do with fast follow-up shots. Again, the OP is better off focusing on basic marksmanship first and foremost.

Last edited by BamBam-31; 10-14-2008 at 3:32 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-14-2008, 5:21 PM
tte tte is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: East Bay, Northern California
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I went to the range this past weekend and I too have to learn how to squeeze the trigger correctly. This is my 1st time shooting a handgun.

I am left handed and my left eye is dominant.

I would squeeze the trigger hard and my instructor told me to squeeze it gradually. I think jerking the trigger causes flinching so I started squeezin it gently and gradually, so my hits would be in line with the target horizontally but to the right side of the target. What was causing my hits to be on the right side was because when I squeezed the trigger my finger would curl around the trigger n as I squeezed it would move the gun to the right. I was also using too much of my finger.

I might go buy a new laser pointer and tape it onto my pistol and dry fire.
I think this way when I squeeze the trigger I should notice any movement on the gun by observing the laser dot on the target.

If I am squeezin the trigger and the laser on the target does not move, then I know that my trigger squeeze is not moving the gun.

I hope this works.

Roy
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-14-2008, 5:35 PM
liquidmx liquidmx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 180
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Hey guys, long time reader, very little poster, but....I had/have the same situation. A couple things I have found to correct it.

I have found that 10 rounds with .22 then 10 with my glock helps. Just going back and fourth until everything is tight. Plus your not throwing money (ammo) downrange. As my groups stayed better I was able to go 2 glock rounds to each .22 round etc. until it got good consistently.

I also found that dry firing at the range helps too. If I shoot low and left (right handed flinch), I immediately drop the mag, eject the chamber round and dry fire until I get rid of the flinch. DO NOT stop dry firing until the sites stop moving. Throw the mag back in and repeat as necessary.

Also surprise firing is good. Where you slowly creep the trigger until it fires, very little pull a time until it fires. Agreed on the squeezing point too. I found my groups were best when every round was a "surprise". I started having problems when I increased the speed which I pulled the trigger. Going back to smooth and slow then increasing the speed helped as well.

Last edited by liquidmx; 10-14-2008 at 5:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-14-2008, 10:20 PM
tte tte is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: East Bay, Northern California
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Yeah..My instructor said the same about the surprise firing.

Roy
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-14-2008, 11:05 PM
liquidmx liquidmx is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 180
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Can someone tell me what proper form is for focusing. I have been told your are supposed to shoot handguns with both eyes open for proper spacial awareness. I want to say I was also told you are supposed to focus on the target and line the sights up that way (as opposed to focusing on the sights, with a blurry target).

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-14-2008, 11:15 PM
Black Majik's Avatar
Black Majik Black Majik is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 9,421
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidmx View Post
Can someone tell me what proper form is for focusing. I have been told your are supposed to shoot handguns with both eyes open for proper spacial awareness. I want to say I was also told you are supposed to focus on the target and line the sights up that way (as opposed to focusing on the sights, with a blurry target).

Thanks.
Focus on front sight, blurry target, blurry rear sight.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-14-2008, 11:28 PM
taloft's Avatar
taloft taloft is offline
Well used Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lemon Grove
Posts: 2,700
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

No, your front sight should be crystal clear and the target should be slightly fuzzy. Both eyes open or you lose a significant portion of your peripheral vision on the side that is closed.

edit: you beat me to it.
__________________
.




"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something."--Plato
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-14-2008, 11:48 PM
BamBam-31's Avatar
BamBam-31 BamBam-31 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,179
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBam-31 View Post
Low-left is almost always an indication of flinch. As mentioned, too much trigger finger on the trigger (use only the pad of your finger, not the joint), anticipation of recoil, jerking instead of squeezing the trigger, etc., all lead to flinch.

Dry fire is the best cure for a flinch. Shooting .22's is also a great training aid, as the mechanics in shooting a .22 accurately are the same as shooting a centerfire accurately, only w/o the flinch-inducing recoil. Dry fire to program your muscle-memory to do nothing other than squeeze the trigger--that way, you can allot 100% of your concentration to holding proper sight alignment (while controlling your breathing) as you squeeeeeeeezzzeeee. When the shot goes off, it should be a surprise. In fact, you should pretend there's no round in the chamber, that when the trigger finally breaks, NOTHING happens. Make sure you note where the front sight was in relation to the target the moment the shot goes off ("calling your shot"). Glocks were made to be dry fired, so dry fire the heck out of your G19.

Black Majik is right--a defensive handgun class will teach you tactics more than basic marksmanship skills. Highly recommend, but not right now. Dry fire around 100 times per live round fired (meaning, if you're gonna shoot 100 rds. on Saturday, better get started on your 10,000 trigger pull homework during the week). Make sure your gun's unloaded, then make sure again. Remove ALL ammo from whatever room you're dry firing in. Pick a small spot on the wall to aim at, then steady your sights on that spot (make sure the edges of the front sight are focused razor sharp--DO NOT focus on the target), then squeeeeeezzzzeeee....click. Rack and repeat.

Put in the dry fire hours. Every good shooter has. You'll be amazed at how much of a difference it makes. Best thing is, it's FREE.

ETA: Learning trigger reset has nothing to do with accurate shooting and everything to do with fast follow-up shots. Again, the OP is better off focusing on basic marksmanship first and foremost.
As mentioned, focus on the front sight. I actually squint my left eye a little, just to minimize the double image thing, but that's me. I also hold my breath a little too long, but it works. Those are the little things--you'll discover what works for you and what doesn't with practice. The big things (trigger control and sight alignment) must be done a certain way, however.

Last edited by BamBam-31; 10-14-2008 at 11:51 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-15-2008, 12:30 AM
trinydex trinydex is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,805
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

i was sad when jonas in the unit said that you should keep both eyes open when you shoot pistol. then he went on to say forget the sights look at the target....
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-15-2008, 6:30 AM
ricknadine1111's Avatar
ricknadine1111 ricknadine1111 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,282
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Majik View Post
Learning the reset on your trigger is crucial to shooting a controlled pair, as well as shooting a group. However from your review of the course below... I'm not sure where slapping the trigger aids in Marksmanship. I've gone to FTA also, there are better courses to teach Marksmanship.




As highlighted, slapping the trigger will not aid in shooting a tight, tight group. The course focuses on drawing from the holster and shooting in a defensive situation. My recommendation to the OP was to get a different type of instruction. One that focuses on basic marksmanship with all the time in the world.

It's two different aspects of shooting.
The op tought me how not to slap the trigger which I was doing from going on my own to the range and releasing the trigger after every shot.
__________________
WHERED IT GO !, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LEAD.LETER SEE ,UP 40 CLICKS AND LEFT 20 CLICKS," OH DARN, I DUNO WHERE IT IS?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-15-2008, 6:58 AM
Lancear15's Avatar
Lancear15 Lancear15 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 2,634
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

I've found a good test is to put a snap cap as the last round in a mag or 2 and load them with a different amount of rounds like 5 - 8 mix em up if you must or just avoid counting rounds as you shoot. You wont know when you get to the snap cap and that will really show you what you're doing when anticipating. Apposed to just dry firing/snap capping where you know its not going to go bang.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-15-2008, 8:56 AM
Shenaniguns Shenaniguns is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back in California?
Posts: 6,041
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Majik View Post
Focus on front sight, blurry target, blurry rear sight.

Prep the trigger!!!

To the OP you can go to this page to get the email for Bruce Gray's firearm packet:
http://graygunstraining.com/8.html

And this DVD will also aid you into having correct marksmanship fundamentals...
http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/...e19c094e2c8983
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-15-2008, 9:54 AM
heroimprisoned heroimprisoned is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oakland
Posts: 165
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I was having the same problem with my new P226, and this thread is full of good, useful information. I'm also really stoked to see not a single "Oh man not this again" response. Props to everyone giving good advice to us newbies.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-15-2008, 10:54 AM
fairfaxjim's Avatar
fairfaxjim fairfaxjim is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fairfax, CA
Posts: 2,125
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tte View Post
I went to the range this past weekend and I too have to learn how to squeeze the trigger correctly. This is my 1st time shooting a handgun.

I am left handed and my left eye is dominant.

I would squeeze the trigger hard and my instructor told me to squeeze it gradually. I think jerking the trigger causes flinching so I started squeezin it gently and gradually, so my hits would be in line with the target horizontally but to the right side of the target. What was causing my hits to be on the right side was because when I squeezed the trigger my finger would curl around the trigger n as I squeezed it would move the gun to the right. I was also using too much of my finger.

I might go buy a new laser pointer and tape it onto my pistol and dry fire.
I think this way when I squeeze the trigger I should notice any movement on the gun by observing the laser dot on the target.

If I am squeezin the trigger and the laser on the target does not move, then I know that my trigger squeeze is not moving the gun.

I hope this works.

Roy
If your are shooting left handed, and you wish to use this chart:
http://bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

make sure you flip it left to right - everything except the 12 and 6 o'clock items will be reversed for lefties.
__________________
"As soon as we burn 'em," Chinn said, "more come in."
Ignatius Chinn, a FORMER veteran firearms agent.
CONTRA COSTA TIMES 03/04/2008

"please guys please no ridiculous offers....Im a girl, not an idiot" Mistisa242
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-15-2008, 12:25 PM
trinydex trinydex is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,805
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

i don't understand why the chart says an higher than 3/9 shot is pushing in anticipation of recoil... all the pushers i've ever seen shoot like LOW. is this chart only for subtle bad habits?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:23 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.