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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 08-06-2014, 10:09 AM
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Default Concealed Carry on Marine Installations?

I spent 20 years in the Marines but since I retired 8 years ago I thought I better check my facts. As far as I know, you cannot generally exercise concealed carry on a military installation based on your state's carry laws. I'm assuming some installations/services may be different, but does that about sum it up, particularly for Marine installations?

I'm drafting a response to the editor of the Marine Corps Gazette suggesting that installations should have a certification program which would provide additional training and allow on-base carry for Marines who wish to participate. I didn't want to send it in and then find out that the rules have changed and it's no longer an issue.

Thanks in advance.

For those of you on active duty, thanks for your service. It's because of your actions that people thank old guys like me.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vospertw View Post
I spent 20 years in the Marines but since I retired 8 years ago I thought I better check my facts. As far as I know, you cannot generally exercise concealed carry on a military installation based on your state's carry laws. I'm assuming some installations/services may be different, but does that about sum it up, particularly for Marine installations?

I'm drafting a response to the editor of the Marine Corps Gazette suggesting that installations should have a certification program which would provide additional training and allow on-base carry for Marines who wish to participate. I didn't want to send it in and then find out that the rules have changed and it's no longer an issue.

Thanks in advance.

For those of you on active duty, thanks for your service. It's because of your actions that people thank old guys like me.
Concealed Carry is prohibitted on all military instalations by DoD Policy. There are very limited exceptions (undercover officer, CID, FBI, etc) that generally apply to some form of LEO while conducting their duties. Now that said the the Senior Commander of the instalation can make exceptions and allow it, but off hand I can only think of maybe 3-4 times in my 17 years in that I have seen those "exceptions".
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:48 PM
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yea. CC is prohibited.
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:02 AM
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Thanks. Sounds like same as always.
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:41 AM
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Ain't gonna happen.... It's a violation of 18 USC 930. Period. Base commander cannot usurp federal laws. Unless your under a covered position in 930, carriage of any weapon is a wobbler. This includes any federally leased space such as MEPS or a recruiting office. There are exception such as in LEO in hot pursuit or conducting official duties and armed. But heading to the commissary to fill your cart is asking for it.


Hate to say it, but your CCW creds don't mean jack squat on federal lands. You need a federal cred, and you get that by working for the .gov
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:26 PM
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Had a question about this as well. Guy I work with registered his weapon on LA AFB and he said that part of the paperwork he was provided stated that his ouhome state (non-CA) LTC was valid and he could CCW on base but not in the buildings. I of course called BS but he said it was true and that he could CCW on any base for up to 72 hrs before having to register his weapon on that base - but was still limited to open areas (not in any buildings).

Supposedly hes gonna bring the paperwork in for me to see but Im still highly skeptical.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:31 PM
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Unit74 - I don't think it's that black and white. USC already allows members of the armed forces to possess weapons on base "as authorized by law" as well as for hunting and "other lawful purposes." I know on bases where I was stationed the installation commander had fairly wide latitude in setting hunting and recreational shooting regulations, as well as for storage of personal weapons in base housing.

In talking with another retired service member last week, he mentioned being in units that had memorandums of understanding with the installation commander to bring personal weapons on and off the base, including carrying them on their persons while on the installation.

The intent of section 930 is to prevent unauthorized weapons on a federal facility (not just firearms); it does allow the lawful possession and use of those weapons. I'm not a lawyer though, so you may ultimately be correct.
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Old 08-10-2014, 2:20 PM
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LEOSA has been changed to include Officers with powers of Apprehension so Military Police in all branches are now covered under it. DOD has directed all the branches to create a system of credentialing their MP's so I would speculate that there may be some changes coming down the road. It won't be CID, OSI or NCIS that will be the only ones authorized to conceal carry anymore. The Army will most likely come down with some pretty stringent guidelines on who can actually be issued LEOSA Creds. It is also suppose to grandfather in retired MP's and those who served more than 10 years. I have not read anything excluding Reserves or National Guard either.
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Old 08-10-2014, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit74 View Post
Ain't gonna happen.... It's a violation of 18 USC 930. Period. Base commander cannot usurp federal laws.
Hate to say it, but your CCW creds don't mean jack squat on federal lands. You need a federal cred, and you get that by working for the .gov
not entirely true. Base commanders, even unit commanders can authorize individuals under the age of 21 to drink alcohol. THAT usurps Federal Law. so, exceptions are possible.

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Originally Posted by vospertw View Post
Unit74 - I don't think it's that black and white. USC already allows members of the armed forces to possess weapons on base "as authorized by law"as well as for hunting and "other lawful purposes."
Yep, I CC when hunting.
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Old 08-10-2014, 5:17 PM
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There is a difference in weapons for hunting and while engaged in hunting activities vs CCW of a pistol. Apples and oranges here.

While I agree that you can possess firearms on base, they must be registered and either in your base housing, if authorized or in the armory if your in the barracks.

With regard to the 1984 national minimum drinking age act, that is purely legislation that regulates the states and not federal lands and that argument is dead in the water.

Bottom line is any state CCW is invalid on federal lands. There is no reciprocity between any state CCW/CHCL and the federal government. If you are carrying concealed on base, your asking for a courts marshal or if you are a civilian, a trip to the nearest federal magistrate court. And good luck getting your gun back. There is no hunting exception and the caliber must also be legal for taking game in that area if you are going to carry.

Seeing that your in Oceanside, I patrolled CamPen for 7 years and tell you for certain, I have taken guns off Marines who through CCW was cool. The Cpl stood in front of the CO, the Lcpl plead for mercy, the PFC begged for leniency and finally walked out on restriction.

Not saying I know everything, but as a former MP, local PD officer and now federal officer, I do have a working knowledge base on the scenario presented.

Last edited by Unit74; 08-10-2014 at 5:26 PM..
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Old 08-10-2014, 5:29 PM
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Germz, here in AR you can CCW while hunting as well. But if you don't have the CHCL and have a pistol, the GW will take all your tackle and issue a phat cite to go with it.
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Old 08-24-2014, 3:01 AM
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MP (not PMO Mind you), stationed in CA on Marine base. CC not allowed (not even by me) on base. CID can, and there's a reservist here who works for a government acronym that can with no problem.
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:27 AM
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Generally commanders can only FURTHER restrict policy, never loosen it. Where can base commanders allow underage drinking on US soil? Unheard of today...

Now in a foreign country/in port, definitely, but then US law doesn't apply, so that's why you can drink at 18 in Japan/wherever.
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Old 08-24-2014, 1:35 PM
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Where can base commanders allow underage drinking on US soil? Unheard of today...
This is incorrect. Base Commanders can authorize alcohol consumption for those under 21 (must be over 18) on base. This is standard procedure for the Marine Corps Ball and sometimes used for Marine Corps mess nights. However, if the underage individual then goes out in town with alcohol in their system, they are in violation of the law.


Refer to Camp Pendleton Base Order 5200 chapter 6, section 10.4.c.
http://www.pendleton.marines.mil/Por...ions5000.2.PDF

Last edited by jcourson; 08-24-2014 at 1:41 PM.. Reason: Edited for clarity: removed portions of original quote that did not apply
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Old 08-24-2014, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jcourson View Post
This is incorrect. Base Commanders can authorize alcohol consumption for those under 21 (must be over 18) on base. This is standard procedure for the Marine Corps Ball and sometimes used for Marine Corps mess nights. However, if the underage individual then goes out in town with alcohol in their system, they are in violation of the law.


Refer to Camp Pendleton Base Order 5200 chapter 6, section 10.4.c.
http://www.pendleton.marines.mil/Por...ions5000.2.PDF
Wow, curious. Also very restrictive policies for enlisted alcohol consumption. We had the Marine Corps Ball here and as with all things on this and other Navy bases, ZERO tolerance for under 21 drinking. Base commanders can override certain federal law on Military posts then it seems..

The command here is so strict with underage drinking that any ARI under 21 is automatic ejection.
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Old 08-24-2014, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Base commanders can override certain federal law on Military posts then it seems.
Drinking age of 21 is actually a state law even though it is consistent in every state. 23 U.S.C. 158 (National Minimum Drinking Age Act) effectively levied fines to the state by reducing the money given for highways for all states that had a drinking age lower than 21. For that matter, I am pretty sure (don't quote me on it) that some states allow drinking under the age of 21 in your home if a parent is present.
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