Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calgunners in Service
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2014, 10:40 AM
kbenson's Avatar
kbenson kbenson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 411
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Question Mil uniforms have changed since the late 80's

I just finished reading an article- Black berets out. (This change was back in 2011) Obviously I have not been keeping up with the military fashions

I also read ACU replaced BDU, but that the sleeves cannot be rolled up? I would have a problem with this when stationed @ ft. lost in the woods or similar.

But the biggest shell shocker was no more spit shined boots!?! Man! I remember the days of making sure I saw a reflection and still got dinged for "dirty boots"

Anyone serve back in the 80's and still in? What do you think of the changes?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-08-2014, 3:28 PM
cc56 cc56 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 721
iTrader: 22 / 96%
Default

Never served in the 80"s, but went to basic (Army) in 2002. I had BDU's and had to shine my boots. I was ok with BDU's and might partly miss them deep down. I do not miss shining boots, i think it is pointless. In fact I wonder when it started? I think tan boots were better over all. A super shinny boot proved nothing in my book, most with the super shinny boots were always afraid to scuff them. Some used it as an excuse to be lazy.

As far as I know when BDU's came out you were not to starch them, by 2002 it was basically required to have heavy starch which meant most had to pay for dry cleaning. I Think that was a waste now that I look back. So I don't miss that.

The berets were stupid and I am glad they went away from that, and back to patrol caps.

The rolling the sleeves up is a silly issue to me. I always hear that "cancer" is the reason it is not possible. I feel it is BS, because if that was true then we would wear boonie caps!! That would protect the ears and neck better. You know every E-9 in EVERY service hates boonie caps (sarcasm). I think with enough time that you will see sleeves rolled up, just because they will get sick of seeing people drop tops. OR there will be a lot of heat casualties at a location and a few bases at a time they will authorize sleeves up.

I don't know what is going on now as I have been out of the military for 1 year and for the last 7 I was in the Guard which thankfully used common sense. Active duty days ended for me in 2006.

When were BDU's first introduced to the military?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-08-2014, 3:34 PM
kbenson's Avatar
kbenson kbenson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 411
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes I agree with the shiny boots. How appropriate would they be for combat? I had to buy 2 pair just for inspections (Not wear) I remember a platoon leader who was a real dwad. He knew most guys had "inspection only" boots and right after, he made us run in the muck (after a rainfall)


intro of BDU
I recall seeing some guys still wearing OD green uniforms when I was issued BDU, so I want to say mid 80's?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-08-2014, 5:54 PM
stitch_paradox's Avatar
stitch_paradox stitch_paradox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,627
iTrader: 48 / 100%
Default

Navy still have the spit shine boots.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-08-2014, 6:02 PM
jarhead714 jarhead714 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: O.C.
Posts: 2,564
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

The whole point of spit shining boots beyond the obvious reason (looks killer) is that you are protecting and better resisting water. A boot that is polished over and over again will last virtually forever when re-soled every now and again. All the new uniforms look like *** to me because you can't starch and crease them. Don't look as good when you lean back and STRUT!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-08-2014, 7:32 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I joined in 1988. the uniform changed little in the 90's as far as the uniform itself went. they did however issue out a summer PC it was nice and much lighter and cooler. the worst headgear change was in about 2000 when they made us wear that stupid black beret not only was it an insult to the Rangers but a useless piece of headgear if you are a mechanic. thankfully in 2011 it was gone.

ACU's which we currently have are now about 11 years old. I wore them in Iraq in late 05 and among the first wearing them in Iraq. 06 DCU's were not authorized for wear in theater.

fast forward a few years the UCP pattern is out soon and a version of Mutlicam is replacing it. I believe it is called Scorpion 2. not sure when it comes out for issue.

the Army has changed it's uniform quite a few times in the last 100 years this wont be the last either.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.

Last edited by chris; 07-08-2014 at 7:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-08-2014, 7:38 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc56 View Post
When were BDU's first introduced to the military?
I want to say about 1983 they started to be issued.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-08-2014, 8:14 PM
ElvenSoul's Avatar
ElvenSoul ElvenSoul is offline
Free at Last!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 14,455
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

2 Weeks till bunny slippers and flannel PJ's are standard issue. Well it seems that is the way it is going!
__________________
If only the could see us now! :(
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-08-2014, 8:19 PM
9mmrevolver's Avatar
9mmrevolver 9mmrevolver is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: neverland
Posts: 1,031
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I served the navy back in 98. I was one of the last recruits to get dungarees in boot. They changes the material of the shirt and pants. The also changed the shape. The bell bottoms were gone. Man were those some comfortable clothes to wear
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-08-2014, 8:33 PM
SalManilla's Avatar
SalManilla SalManilla is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 17
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc56 View Post
When were BDU's first introduced to the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
I want to say about 1983 they started to be issued.
I joined June of 1982 and BDU's were the standard issue at Ft. McClellan. As MP's we pressed and starched the hell out of them.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-08-2014, 8:38 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalManilla View Post
I joined June of 1982 and BDU's were the standard issue at Ft. McClellan. As MP's we pressed and starched the hell out of them.
I was close. many guys were telling me that was about the time they got them and that was in 88 when I joined lots of guys came from AD in Germany.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-09-2014, 6:18 PM
kbenson's Avatar
kbenson kbenson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 411
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalManilla View Post
I joined June of 1982 and BDU's were the standard issue at Ft. McClellan. As MP's we pressed and starched the hell out of them.
Yeah I remember guys starching and or using sizing on them. We were told that using either on BDU would take away the uniforms ability to avoid detection..Infrared?
I think the primary problem was clogging the uniforms pores and not allowing it to breath.


Anyone remember the funky green socks? Those fargin things stunk bad (even after a small hike) I switched mine out with white athletic socks
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-09-2014, 7:11 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbenson View Post
Anyone remember the funky green socks? Those fargin things stunk bad (even after a small hike) I switched mine out with white athletic socks
those weren't as bad as the black socks we had to wear in the 90's now that was stupid. I wore my green socks until they fell apart.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-10-2014, 5:42 PM
Bob A Bob A is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, PRK
Posts: 27
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
I want to say about 1983 they started to be issued.
I went to Benning in jan 82 and was told we were the first there to get all four issues of uniform in BDU. Previous groups got 2 OD and 2 BDUs.

Last edited by Bob A; 07-11-2014 at 6:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-10-2014, 6:29 PM
GMG's Avatar
GMG GMG is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: El Cajon, CA.
Posts: 7,388
iTrader: 131 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmrevolver View Post
I served the navy back in 98. I was one of the last recruits to get dungarees in boot. They changes the material of the shirt and pants. The also changed the shape. The bell bottoms were gone. Man were those some comfortable clothes to wear

There was a reason for bell bottoms! You could slip them off over your boots/shoes and make a flotation device, should you land in the drink.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-10-2014, 9:55 PM
The sarge's Avatar
The sarge The sarge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Camp Pendleton
Posts: 527
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

The starch really does make the uniform light up in NVGs. I tested this out in Korea one day while bored on post. Anyways I came in before the new uniforms and I liked the pressed uniforms and spit shined boots but they were a pain in the *** to up keep and cost a lot to do so. I now use spit shined dress shoes instead of the patent leather, that's my way of holding on. The patterns we use in the Corps work and the other services will probably end up with them. Or we will all change to something like multicam. That's what I see happening during the draw down. Everything gets cut and simplified.

The one thing I truly hate about the uniform regs in the Corps is the damn boots. And now we are switching full time to the RAT boots which are heavy and suck. We have no freedom to choose and with my messed up feet it pisses me off. I wish I could have the old jungle boots back. At least I could soak them and wear them wet for a few hours and they would mold to my feet. The new stuff doesn't do that it just stays uncomfortable.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-11-2014, 10:38 AM
mikenewgun87's Avatar
mikenewgun87 mikenewgun87 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Posts: 6,705
iTrader: 68 / 100%
Default

you know what changed??? white socks....

Against the UCMJ...completely!!!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-12-2014, 1:38 AM
oldsmoboat oldsmoboat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sacramento Area
Posts: 1,217
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
I want to say about 1983 they started to be issued.
When I went through basic in February of 83 they issued us BDUs but the jackets were still the solid green. They did give us BDU jackets before we completed AIT.
__________________
Need an FFL in Sac?

Every time you post a For Sale thread without pictures, God kills a kitten.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-12-2014, 10:11 AM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsmoboat View Post
When I went through basic in February of 83 they issued us BDUs but the jackets were still the solid green. They did give us BDU jackets before we completed AIT.
some of the guys in my unit back in 88,89 mentioned 1983 as the date. that is the date that has stuck in my head since then. that was a long time ago when I was told. the phase in date when they were issued them may be the reason why 1983 is the date they remember.

BDU's were issued to me when I joined in 89 and I still have a winter pair I never wore. I used my summers until they fell apart.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-12-2014, 10:43 AM
hk-p2000's Avatar
hk-p2000 hk-p2000 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Monterey Park / East Los Angeles
Posts: 717
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

I still have all my green socks, I stop wearing them back in 2009



Quote:
Originally Posted by kbenson View Post
Anyone remember the funky green socks? Those fargin things stunk bad (even after a small hike) I switched mine out with white athletic socks
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joewy View Post
Cops shoot everyone. Regardless of the threat. So whats your point??
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-12-2014, 5:33 PM
63 tango 63 tango is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 794
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

I have new BDUs that I bought at clothing sales in 91 and never sewed the patches on.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-12-2014, 6:42 PM
Rider1k's Avatar
Rider1k Rider1k is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: wine country
Posts: 1,956
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Son in laws brother just graduated and headed to Germany with a black beret. Guess they still wear them.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-12-2014, 7:48 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider1k View Post
Son in laws brother just graduated and headed to Germany with a black beret. Guess they still wear them.
they are only used in formal occasions. they are not standard headgear anymore.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-12-2014, 8:49 PM
Rider1k's Avatar
Rider1k Rider1k is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: wine country
Posts: 1,956
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
they are only used in formal occasions. they are not standard headgear anymore.
Ahh.. 10-4
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-12-2014, 9:19 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 12,782
iTrader: 285 / 100%
Default

We still had woodland BDU's and black boots when I deployed to JTF-GTMO in 2002. We were issued boonie hats which were cool, but when we got to the island we were told they weren't authorized for wear, ever. The Army is funny like that sometimes. There isn't any change of season down there except hot and muggy, followed by monsoon rain, followed by hot and muggy with lots of mosquitos. I carried OFF in my cargo pocket. It was actually a cool place to spend a year, in retrospect.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-21-2014, 4:22 PM
HelmandHunter's Avatar
HelmandHunter HelmandHunter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern PRK
Posts: 107
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Marine Special Operations Battalions still wear the old M81 Woodland tri-colors.
__________________
"I must study politics and war, that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy." - John Adams
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-21-2014, 7:28 PM
GMG's Avatar
GMG GMG is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: El Cajon, CA.
Posts: 7,388
iTrader: 131 / 100%
Default

They have had a lot of changes from the 60's.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-21-2014, 7:57 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMG View Post
They have had a lot of changes from the 60's.
they are going to change again.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-22-2014, 3:59 PM
SGT Loco's Avatar
SGT Loco SGT Loco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,765
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

WWI Vet's 60 years ago: "Boy, army uniforms sure have changed since I was in. Leggings are out? What are boots?"
__________________
"... You feel the anger thinking of the loved ones you will never see again, and losing your life infuriates your soul. You rage to get to your feet and grab for a weapon, any weapon. Regardless of your race, culture, or religion, you want to die standing, fighting like a warrior, an American, so others won't have to. For those looking for a definition, this is the price of freedom.”

------
SGT Thomas Macpherson KIA 12 OCT 2012
SFC Ryan Savard KIA 13 OCT 2012
"Sine Pari"
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-22-2014, 5:04 PM
GMG's Avatar
GMG GMG is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: El Cajon, CA.
Posts: 7,388
iTrader: 131 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Loco View Post
WWI Vet's 60 years ago: "Boy, army uniforms sure have changed since I was in. Leggings are out? What are boots?"
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-22-2014, 8:51 PM
brando's Avatar
brando brando is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Woodside
Posts: 3,671
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbenson View Post
I recall seeing some guys still wearing OD green uniforms when I was issued BDU, so I want to say mid 80's?
Guys in Group were still using OG-107s when I joined in the late 80s.
__________________
--Brando

If you’re driven by partisan tribalism more than ideology, if getting in rhetorical digs at liberals thrills you more than persuading adversaries or achieving policy victories, it makes sense that you would fight substantively inconsequential battles with no more or less vigor than any other…
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-23-2014, 8:39 AM
Anthracis Anthracis is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: الفلوجة
Posts: 974
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Talk about wasting tax dollars. How many times are they going to change the friggin things?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-23-2014, 9:56 AM
rero360 rero360 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 3,708
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

I just want to know when Big Army is going to pull their head out of their fourth point of contact and announce when the wear in date is going to be for the "new" OCP to replace the UCP trash. I have tons of high quality comfortable gear sitting by waiting to be used again.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:08 AM
Snoopy47's Avatar
Snoopy47 Snoopy47 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,636
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthracis View Post
Talk about wasting tax dollars. How many times are they going to change the friggin things?
I have NINE sets between the two now. I've only bought ONE of them, and I'm a reservist that never wears them.

And then I got all these high speed combat shirts that I have NEVER worn down range. I guess I'll cut a pair of the pants into shorts, wear the combat shirt and boonie hat and go all poser like at the local shooting ranges.
__________________
Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-23-2014, 1:10 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 16,851
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthracis View Post
Talk about wasting tax dollars. How many times are they going to change the friggin things?
how about you look at the changes in the uniform from lets say 100 years ago to today. it has changed many times and will change again.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php


Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:48 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.