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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 03-22-2014, 3:14 PM
phantomx48 phantomx48 is offline
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Default Question for all current & former Servicemembers regarding your training

First let me start off by thanking you for your service!

As for my question. . .is there a specific type of training that you received which you feel helped you the most prepare for combat?

As a civilian I don't ever expect to be in combat, but even in a self defense scenario, I am repeatedly told that no training can truly simulate or prepare you for a shooting (especially when someone is shooting back at you). So with that in mind, were there any particular drills, scenarios, or skill set that was taught to you during your training that might help us civilians be better prepared?

Something that maybe made you think in the back of your mind "good thing we trained by doing _______, back in basic" etc. after your deployment.

Or to put it another way, if a family member or good friend came to you looking to learn how effectively defend themselves with their gun/rifle, what would you teach them that they probably haven't learned after taking all the basic/intermediary classes with their local instructor?
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Old 03-22-2014, 3:58 PM
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You learn the most important person is the person next to you, and if you aren't doing your part they will die and if they wont do their part you will die. There is no training, none that you are asking, only love of your brother and the loyalty to watch their back.
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Old 03-23-2014, 1:09 PM
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Communication (hand, verbal, digital, etc.), reconnaissance, map reading, physical fitness. And small arms proficiency, of course.
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Old 03-23-2014, 2:05 PM
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Train under stress.
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Old 03-23-2014, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by phantomx48 View Post
As for my question. . .is there a specific type of training that you received which you feel helped you the most prepare for combat?
Best training I've received... and will probably ever receive... was at SERE. I would/wouldn't recommend it...
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Old 03-23-2014, 2:59 PM
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The bayonet field.
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Old 03-23-2014, 3:45 PM
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not sleeping for days at a time and being required to complete the task above standard.

stress, dehydration, hunger, lots of cigarettes/dip, lack of sleep, fear of getting my buddy killed.
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Old 03-23-2014, 6:30 PM
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No training can equal stress under enemy fire, fog of war, adrenaline dumps. That being said, the one thing that I was glad we practiced religiously was fire and movement, mag changes, and weapon malfunction clearing drills. Ive never felt more vulnerable than when I had a major weapon malfunction under fire and could not fix it (M16 exploded).
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Old 03-23-2014, 6:39 PM
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Best training I got was my first firefight. You learn all the basics before hand but they all come together once you see a little combat.
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Old 03-23-2014, 7:21 PM
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Mindset...#1....The Marine next to you #2..Everything else ..Like Cold100 said , is when the rounds start flying!!
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Old 03-23-2014, 7:43 PM
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Force on Force CQB using simunition rounds or paintball.

easy to forget the basics when rounds are flying at you with minimal cover while trying to clear a stoppage.

practice practice practice... tactical movements, speed/tactical reloads, muscle memory. slow is smooth and smooth is fast
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Old 03-24-2014, 9:09 AM
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Airborne school. Once you've put your feet and knees to the brees everything else is a piece of cake.

"Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight." Gen. Gavin
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Old 03-24-2014, 9:15 AM
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You know, all if what was said is good but to me it is drill and boot camp as a whole. What sticks out in my mind from what my drill instructors always screamed is instant willing obedience to orders. Now, that's a bit larger scale but when you receive orders in a combat environment you don't get the luxury of questioning them. There is no time and the orders have a bigger picture than just you in mind.

The real answer to you question though is that there is no "one" thing that prepares you. It's the whole training package. Just like getting a degree in school.

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  #14  
Old 03-25-2014, 11:38 AM
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Nothing can quite prepare you for combat like ..... well combat... lol
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Old 03-25-2014, 2:17 PM
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Mindset. I also think this is a main factor that separates Infantry/combat arms from other support jobs when it comes to combat. It takes a very different frame of mind to go out with the intent to take another man's life.

Read Dave Grossman's "On Killing" - it is discussed at length, along with the training it takes to overcome that mental hurdle. Simple things like training with silhouette targets vs bullseye targets can be the difference between squeezing that trigger it not.

So, to answer your question, as far as formal training goes, I would say that platoon level live fires really instilled a trust and comradeship in the men you're fighting beside. There is nothing quite like tuning across an objective with dust kicking up a few yards in front of you from your support by fire positions.

I'd also second the bayonet course, as mentioned above. There are very few things that can instill the warrior mentality than training to kill a man with a blade.

What is harder to describe and express is the informal training and lifestyle that exists in an Infantry outfit. I hesitate to say that it changes you, as everyone ought to enter that environment knowing exactly what is expected of them. Rather it confirms and refines that mindset and that outlook. You realize and accept that somewhere outside the wire (or on the street) there is someone who will try to kill you today. You have to kill them first. That is all there is to it.

Technical skills, stress fires, all of that is great, but they pale in comparison to the importance of mindset. Your skills will fail you if you don't have the mindset established to use them when it matters.
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Old 05-07-2014, 8:31 PM
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The Navy's security reaction force advanced training at the center for antiterrorism and naval security forces on ford island in Pearl Harbor Hawaii. Lots of cqb, hand to hand techniques and good range time with transition drills and simunition based scenario training.
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  #17  
Old 05-07-2014, 8:44 PM
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the best thing I remember about all the training I received in all my years is running across a bridge to stop a car that we were looking for. squeezing that trigger under stress no hesitation what so ever. even shooting at the guy to stop him wasn't even a second thought. I wasn't trying to kill the guy we wanted to "talk" to him if you know what I mean.
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Old 05-07-2014, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Airborne school. Once you've put your feet and knees to the brees everything else is a piece of cake.

"Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight." Gen. Gavin
That was the best time of my life hands down. The three weeks in my life that I would love to relive again and again. I'm single with no kids but if I weren't I would still think jump school was the best time of my life over the wedding or kids birth.
Sadly I'm a chump but as one trooper from the 82nd told me, better a chump than a leg!
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Old 05-09-2014, 7:41 AM
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simunition training and clearing houses. Nothing gets the pucker factor up like a little hurt if you mess up. But nothing really simulates the real thing except the real thing.
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Old 05-12-2014, 2:50 PM
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The best training I ever received and the by far in my opinion the most important was live tissue training. (using pigs which apparently are very similar to human anatomy)

We were manned up in teams of 2 and the objective was to keep our pig alive for as long as possible after the pig received multiple combat related wounds (gun shots, sever burns, amputations, sucking chest wound, etc..)

The pigs were given medication/sedated so they did not feel any pain and my partner and I were able to keep our pig alive for 2 days. It had pretty much all of the above and we were still able to keep it alive.
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Old 05-13-2014, 4:16 AM
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No amount of training will prepare you for the raw unadulterated adrenaline rush of real combat. You will fall back on your lowest level of training and operate pretty much on instinct and autopilot.

Stress training and time in training will help. Knowing the basics to where you can operate your equipment in your sleep will make things easier when stuff goes down. But only experiencing combat will allow you to understand combat and why no amount of training will prepare you for it.

Different people will react different under combat conditions. People will cry, defecate, shake, freeze, go into shock, all kinds of rxns. Others will boss up and do what needs to be done. The leadership, NCOs, etc...can try to keep things moving. Camaraderie, brotherhood, team, and all that will keep you fighting for each other.

But by yourself, it is a different ball game. The dynamic is different. The best you can hope for is to train like hell and hope you never have to see combat. And if you do, that you do the job and survive.
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Old 05-13-2014, 4:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomx48 View Post
. . .is there a specific type of training that you received which you feel helped you the most prepare for combat?
Mental preparation -- a "this is the real thing" mentality.
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Old 05-13-2014, 4:54 AM
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"I'm up, he sees me, I'm down."
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Old 05-13-2014, 4:58 AM
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"I'm up, he sees me, I'm down."
"Die motherf**ker Die Get some Release!" haha

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Old 05-13-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomx48 View Post
First let me start off by thanking you for your service!

As for my question. . .is there a specific type of training that you received which you feel helped you the most prepare for combat?
Teamwork, and don't doddle in making decisions or assessing a situation. Just don't look---see! (The "see, just don't look"--applies to everyday too---not just when things go hot).

I can't say any one or two things stand out, but for me it's the entire package.

Respectfully
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Old 07-06-2014, 9:13 PM
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The more realistic the training, the better prepared you are. Perfect practice makes perfect, and train how you fight.... And fight how you train.
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Old 07-07-2014, 9:39 AM
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I guess the big deal is that we aren’t trained to the scenarios that one might be confronted with in the civilian world in an everyday setting.

So you would have to make up your own scenarios you might expect to encounter in the environments you frequent.
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Old 07-08-2014, 3:08 PM
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Army PRT definitely the best training I've had so far
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Old 07-08-2014, 4:06 PM
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While it isn't necessarily "training," being able to process in your head that someone is trying to kill you is a big step in winning a gun battle or just staying alive. A lot of people freeze up as they either go into shock or disbelief.
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Old 07-09-2014, 7:33 AM
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While it isn't necessarily "training," being able to process in your head that someone is trying to kill you is a big step in winning a gun battle or just staying alive. A lot of people freeze up as they either go into shock or disbelief.
And practicing motor skills in expectation of that scenario is the biggest step.

I think they will freeze if they don't have a plan already in place. The need to have the "engage, engage, engage" mentality I think most of us are referring to.

Once that realization is made everything after that becomes automatic.
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Old 07-09-2014, 9:13 AM
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The more realistic the training, the better prepared you are. Perfect practice makes perfect, and train how you fight.... And fight how you train.
i have to do that out my own pocket now. where Im at now they dont do that so i do it on my own. more fun though none of the restrictions to deal with.
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Old 07-10-2014, 9:36 PM
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One of the first things I reflected on after my first firefight after processing everything that just happened was my ability to function simple tasks without thinking about them, like reloading for example. For you, focus on the basics.
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Old 07-11-2014, 10:02 PM
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And practicing motor skills in expectation of that scenario is the biggest step.

I think they will freeze if they don't have a plan already in place. The need to have the "engage, engage, engage" mentality I think most of us are referring to.

Once that realization is made everything after that becomes automatic.
True that. Good point.

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One of the first things I reflected on after my first firefight after processing everything that just happened was my ability to function simple tasks without thinking about them, like reloading for example. For you, focus on the basics.
Steve, not sure why you weren't around, but I always did like your straight forward posts especially in reference to combat. Thanks for adding realistic insight to this thread.
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Old 07-12-2014, 12:00 AM
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Steve, not sure why you weren't around, but I always did like your straight forward posts especially in reference to combat. Thanks for adding realistic insight to this thread.
Thanks dude. I'm blunt and to the point and some take it in a negative light but glad to know others don't.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:28 PM
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Knowing how far I can be pushed, and at that point knowing that I can always push myself just a little bit more.
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