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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 06-25-2014, 1:12 AM
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Default Big Army and Guard are going to be wearing a "get along shirt"



http://www.armytimes.com/article/201...igade-team-ups

Seems that in the wake of the Big Army downsizing, they want to team up the BCTs with NG BCTs. The article states that they will have to play nice nice and help NG leadership develop as well as "create partnerships". The article then goes on to insinuate that whenever there is an NTC rotation with Big Army BCTs, their partnered up NG BCTs will train with them and is also even further insinuated that NG BCTs will potentially be their sustainment.

So... does this mean I can has my Bradley fixed now?!?!?

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Old 06-25-2014, 1:17 AM
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Looks like the 79th BCT ( San Diego) is hooking up with 4/4 infantry in CO. Interesting.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:20 AM
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Unbelievable. They should cut nasty girls instead of downsizing everyone and then merging.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:30 AM
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^

We need just the opposite. The National Guard has civil support responsibility along with disaster relief. They are far more integrated with civil authorities than " Big Army".

I think the Army's decision was to save money by using the National Guard to rotate and backfill Active Duty. Now that were in a " draw down" phase overseas. But it seems like that's changing who knows.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:38 AM
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^

We need just the opposite. The National Guard has civil support responsibility along with disaster relief. They are far more integrated with civil authorities than " Big Army".

I think the Army's decision was to save money by using the National Guard to rotate and backfill Active Duty. Now that were in a " draw down" phase overseas. But it seems like that's changing who knows.
Exactly, let them continue doing that and cut their infantry. That's what I was referring to. Infantry should be active duty exclusive.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:00 PM
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Every military force around the world, needs reserve infantry forces. Despite what you may think, various units in the guard as 11B's have proven themselves capable.

In case a major war breaks out you cannot rely only on active duty infantry to fight. Look at reserve forces, their numbers are usually higher than active duty components.

Active duty will always be better equipped and trained for infantry. Not debating that, some guard units are right behind you guys.

546,047 Active personnel
559,244 Reserve and National Guard personnel
1,105,301 total[3]
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacit Blue View Post
Every military force around the world, needs reserve infantry forces. Despite what you may think, various units in the guard as 11B's have proven themselves capable.

In case a major war breaks out you cannot rely only on active duty infantry to fight. Look at reserve forces, their numbers are usually higher than active duty components.

Active duty will always be better equipped and trained for infantry. Not debating that, some guard units are right behind you guys.

546,047 Active personnel
559,244 Reserve and National Guard personnel
1,105,301 total[3]
In the event of a world war we're gonna need a lot more than our active and inactive forces.

Guard units are not right behind us lol. The Reserves and NG serve a valuable role but infantry should not be one of them, especially when it now puts a burden on active units. Instead of having all of those inactive infantry units, they should be active so they're better equipped, trained and prepared to fight.
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Old 06-25-2014, 2:54 PM
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2/28 BCT were the biggest bags of crap in Iraq in 2006. Worst of the 110.. I mean 1st of the 110 was in bunker survival mode for the most part. Their idea of route security was to park a tank or brad on route michigan and randomly fire off 240 coax bursts. Then the wouldnt wait for a Relief in place so when the next vehicle rolled up to the same spot that had been vacant and unobserved for 10-15 minutes they wondered why they got hit with pop and drop IEDs.
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Old 06-26-2014, 1:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ParkwayDrive View Post
In the event of a world war we're gonna need a lot more than our active and inactive forces.

Guard units are not right behind us lol. The Reserves and NG serve a valuable role but infantry should not be one of them, especially when it now puts a burden on active units. Instead of having all of those inactive infantry units, they should be active so they're better equipped, trained and prepared to fight.
May want to look a little into your history first hater. Check out who was some of the bulk of the units storming Omaha Beach
It was the 29th with the Big Red 1. Lot's of guys were in the guard and fought, bled, and/or died. Many of them go to the VA and were Infantry and lost limbs. You're more than welcome to go tell them to their face that they shouldn't be Infantry.

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Old 06-26-2014, 8:49 AM
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May want to look a little into your history first hater. Check out who was some of the bulk of the units storming Omaha Beach
It was the 29th with the Big Red 1. Lot's of guys were in the guard and fought, bled, and/or died. Many of them go to the VA and were Infantry and lost limbs. You're more than welcome to go tell them to their face that they shouldn't be Infantry.
Your argument fails for two reasons.

1. That was during the greatest war this world has ever seen. We needed everyone to fight, it didn't matter if you were active, reserve, high speed, low speed, etc.

2. Comparing WW2 to today is apples to oranges. Things are way different now.

I'm not saying the NG/Reserves are not needed, I'm saying instead of hindering active units by having them hold their hands through stuff, downsize their infantry and add a few more BCTs.

We worked with a nasty girl unit once in Astan. They grew beards and their hair long, wore unissued gear and uniforms and rolled around without helmets, thinking they were high speed. My PL told them to go **** themselves and we never worked with them again. Obviously that's just one specific case and can't be used for the entire NG. I have friends from my platoon who are now in NG units (initial contracts) and tell me all sorts of stuff.

Infantry should be reserved for active duty period. I have spent more time in the field just on 1A than they do training for everything. No way you can tell me they are "right behind us" or just as trained.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:46 AM
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To be fair I knew a guy in the 82nd on active duty. He was all gung ho before his first deployment. After Iraq he changed his attitude and hated the military, he was bragging about not taking coms seriously on the radio. When he came home.

He has a video of him on a MRAP teasing a Iraqi kid waving a bottle water at him and saying " you want, you want suck it". So my point is their ****bags everywhere, not just the in the guard or reserves.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:01 PM
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To be fair I knew a guy in the 82nd on active duty. He was all gung ho before his first deployment. After Iraq he changed his attitude and hated the military, he was bragging about not taking coms seriously on the radio. When he came home.

He has a video of him on a MRAP teasing a Iraqi kid waving a bottle water at him and saying " you want, you want suck it". So my point is their ****bags everywhere, not just the in the guard or reserves.
No ****. Look at that traitor Bergdahl. He was an active duty infantryman. I never said they're only in the nasty girls or reserves.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:17 PM
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Yup. Have you read the DUSTWUN report? Or MIA??? It's actually quoted as him saying" He wanted to find the Taliban". They looked everywhere for that ****bag...

Its on wikileaks so FYI, access it from home.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:45 PM
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Yup. Have you read the DUSTWUN report? Or MIA??? It's actually quoted as him saying" He wanted to find the Taliban". They looked everywhere for that ****bag...

Its on wikileaks so FYI, access it from home.
I didn't need to read any reports, I was in country shortly after his disappearance and went on a search mission for him after we received word that he was possibly in our province. **** him, he deserves the death penalty.
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Old 06-26-2014, 1:17 PM
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well, that settles that.
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Old 06-27-2014, 2:32 PM
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There's no money to send NG BCT's to NTC. I would expect homestation AT with no fuel to run your tanks.
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Old 06-27-2014, 5:40 PM
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There's no money to send NG BCT's to NTC. I would expect homestation AT with no fuel to run your tanks.
Money is tight everywhere now. the Reserves which is pretty much the stepchild of the Army is getting the shaft as well. my old unit had home station AT no mission and no money.

my new unit at the BDE level is home station next year. this year we are going up to the bay area.
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Old 06-27-2014, 8:25 PM
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I don't see a problem with this, the NG units will get better training and be able to integrate with the active unit faster and be on the same page when the bullets fly. I agree we need NG 11b, we need as many trigger pullers as possible. In the tech savy world we live in. We forget that the rifleman on the ground wins wars.

Always hated the term "big Army" it is a back handed slap, every mos in the Army supports the infantry, even SF. There is no small Army, there is only one U.S. Army.
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Old 07-01-2014, 3:35 PM
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I don't see a problem with this, the NG units will get better training and be able to integrate with the active unit faster and be on the same page when the bullets fly. I agree we need NG 11b, we need as many trigger pullers as possible. In the tech savy world we live in. We forget that the rifleman on the ground wins wars.

Always hated the term "big Army" it is a back handed slap, every mos in the Army supports the infantry, even SF. There is no small Army, there is only one U.S. Army.
No one forgets riflemen win wars. That's my point. Why not add more active infantry units? Active infantry are much better equipped and trained so it makes more sense to have more active units than guard. Having the active units "partner" with NG only hinders their training. The guard is useful for many reasons but it makes more sense to keep the infantry units active to have the most training possible.
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Old 07-01-2014, 3:43 PM
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Ah. Goold ole Parkway, how was your "vacation"?
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:58 PM
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Ah. Goold ole Parkway, how was your "vacation"?
It was quite pleasant old chap. I expect to take a much longer one soon though. Good chatting with you guys.
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Old 07-02-2014, 6:30 PM
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No one forgets riflemen win wars. That's my point. Why not add more active infantry units? Active infantry are much better equipped and trained so it makes more sense to have more active units than guard. Having the active units "partner" with NG only hinders their training. The guard is useful for many reasons but it makes more sense to keep the infantry units active to have the most training possible.
I think they should just make it so in order to be at reservist infantryman you must have been an active infantryman. There are a lot of good guys who just don't want to deal with the stress of AD life anymore but are great war fighters and if they need ever arose could quickly regain a lot of forgotten knowledge with a month or two of straight training prior to be sent down range.

I have my own personal opinion of non prior service reservists, to prevent an outbreak of manstrating I won't get into it. But the reserves has it's place, they just need to realize what it is. I think a great indicator of the complete disconnect reservists have from active service is the thread on this page about how they were blown away and pissed they were missing 4th of July or how horrible it is to work on Super Bowl day. I have never in my life heard of an AD unit scheduling training around or to avoid a holiday or game or anything. If they have the ammo and slot for a range and it falls on a holiday sucks to suck we have people to kill and we need to ensure we are prepared to do that downrange.
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:42 AM
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I think they should just make it so in order to be at reservist infantryman you must have been an active infantryman. There are a lot of good guys who just don't want to deal with the stress of AD life anymore but are great war fighters and if they need ever arose could quickly regain a lot of forgotten knowledge with a month or two of straight training prior to be sent down range.

I have my own personal opinion of non prior service reservists, to prevent an outbreak of manstrating I won't get into it. But the reserves has it's place, they just need to realize what it is. I think a great indicator of the complete disconnect reservists have from active service is the thread on this page about how they were blown away and pissed they were missing 4th of July or how horrible it is to work on Super Bowl day. I have never in my life heard of an AD unit scheduling training around or to avoid a holiday or game or anything. If they have the ammo and slot for a range and it falls on a holiday sucks to suck we have people to kill and we need to ensure we are prepared to do that downrange.
I have a feeling we would agree on many points regarding this matter.

I definitely like the idea of having NG infantrymen only be prior active duty. Like you said, guys in the reserves/NG just don't get it, I don't care if they have a blue cord. It is nowhere near the same.

I will admit we did get the day off for an event on one occasion. The night Osama was killed I got a call from my squad leader to tell my team we had the day off tomorrow. Told me to grab a cold one and I was already on my second haha.

Then again, we did just get back from Astan barely two weeks before that, otherwise I'm pretty sure it would have been a normal work day. I pretty much spent every holiday, birthday, graduation, etc. away from my family. Reserve/NG guys can't relate to that aspect, let alone all the others. Active duty is much more than a job, it's the lifestyle, it's everything.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ParkwayDrive View Post
No one forgets riflemen win wars. That's my point. Why not add more active infantry units? Active infantry are much better equipped and trained so it makes more sense to have more active units than guard. Having the active units "partner" with NG only hinders their training. The guard is useful for many reasons but it makes more sense to keep the infantry units active to have the most training possible.
Active Troops cost way more, I believe you will see a reduction in active duty 11B and in increase in NG 11B. It doesn't have to make sense just meet the budget requirements.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:49 AM
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No one forgets riflemen win wars. That's my point. Why not add more active infantry units? Active infantry are much better equipped and trained so it makes more sense to have more active units than guard. Having the active units "partner" with NG only hinders their training. The guard is useful for many reasons but it makes more sense to keep the infantry units active to have the most training possible.
Having served both active, reserve and NG. I agree there is a large separation in skill, readiness and mind set. But the unfortunate truth we live in right now is force reduction. One thousand Active duty Captain's just got their walking papers, five hundred majors will soon follow. Senior NCO's have already been forced to retire or dismissed. Our Army is shrinking and losing a lot of experienced leaders. I want as many combat arms trained soldiers as possible if they have to be NG, so be it attach them to a regular Army unit and make them train UP to their standards. May be a pain for the RA but hopefully it will raise the performance of the Guard soldiers.
It is going to be a tough road for all the Armed forces, but more so for the Army. The Government and public are so taken with SOCOM and smart bombs, that having a large war ready military is deemed not needed. Meanwhile China sets grinning with a million troops and Washington will want boots on the ground somewhere soon to show they care.
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Old 07-03-2014, 3:30 PM
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Active Troops cost way more, I believe you will see a reduction in active duty 11B and in increase in NG 11B. It doesn't have to make sense just meet the budget requirements.
Of course they cost more. They are far better.

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Having served both active, reserve and NG. I agree there is a large separation in skill, readiness and mind set. But the unfortunate truth we live in right now is force reduction. One thousand Active duty Captain's just got their walking papers, five hundred majors will soon follow. Senior NCO's have already been forced to retire or dismissed. Our Army is shrinking and losing a lot of experienced leaders. I want as many combat arms trained soldiers as possible if they have to be NG, so be it attach them to a regular Army unit and make them train UP to their standards. May be a pain for the RA but hopefully it will raise the performance of the Guard soldiers.
It is going to be a tough road for all the Armed forces, but more so for the Army. The Government and public are so taken with SOCOM and smart bombs, that having a large war ready military is deemed not needed. Meanwhile China sets grinning with a million troops and Washington will want boots on the ground somewhere soon to show they care.
I understand the military is downsizing. However, my argument is that they should be reducing the NG infantry units before making any type of cuts to the AD ones, especially because now the NG units are going to hinder AD units.

It will undoubtedly raise the skill and preparedness within the NG, but at the cost of training for AD units. Plus, it won't even be that relevant due to the limited training NG do anyway. Infantry skills are extremely perishable and taking the AD units away from it to hold the hands of NG units is not helpful at all.
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Old 07-03-2014, 6:11 PM
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I understand your argument and agree in a perfect world not driven buy money and politics this would be the best case scenario for our Army and our Country, but reality is a fickle *****. Our Government and most of our citizens want a smaller less expensive military. You get that buy cutting the Regular Army not the NG. Is it right, hell no. We now have thousands of former officers and enlisted, many have done multiple combat tours getting kicked out buy a thankless Government and Country. Don't think it's just the under performers or the malcontents because it is not. Decorated, combat vets, some with over 10 years of service are being told the country no longer needs their service.
This mass screwing our country is giving these warriors will come back to haunt us and go down as one of the most heartless and cruel acts this country has ever done to its vets.
But in the mean time we need what we have left to be pardon the pun, the best it can be. There are some decent NG units that can be trained to be even better and I believe our RA will be up to it. Because right know like it or not they have no choice.
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Old 07-05-2014, 8:49 AM
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Interesting reading, I was 11B in the Cal Guard.

Stay safe my friends
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Old 07-05-2014, 8:51 AM
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That was funny, thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-07-2014, 9:58 PM
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Looks like the 79th BCT ( San Diego) is hooking up with 4/4 infantry in CO. Interesting.
4/4 is a S***hole and people there are beyond miserable
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:30 PM
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I've served on both sides of the fence. With the majority of my time being guard. Now while I can say I have personally seen some of the best and the worst leadership in the guard; AD should be ashamed of themselves. The NG has stood shoulder to shoulder with AD for 11 yrs. Yet you still disrespect and disregard their resolve.
Before my last stint in the sand I did a gunnery at Irwin. My SQD was locked up tight for fear of making me look bad in front of the Cav. Wrong.... everywhere we turned was a shining example of how not to soldier.
I did a 90 day lay over at Lewis after the Stan. Everyday I saw troops that needed to be throat punched for acting a fool. Screwing off in the commissary, bebopping around town in uniform, sweet mother of all that is holy does the AD NCO Corps do anything.

I hate the NG but that is for personal reasons but the AD that I knew and loved is dead.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:29 AM
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I've served on both sides of the fence. With the majority of my time being guard. Now while I can say I have personally seen some of the best and the worst leadership in the guard; AD should be ashamed of themselves. The NG has stood shoulder to shoulder with AD for 11 yrs. Yet you still disrespect and disregard their resolve.
Before my last stint in the sand I did a gunnery at Irwin. My SQD was locked up tight for fear of making me look bad in front of the Cav. Wrong.... everywhere we turned was a shining example of how not to soldier.
I did a 90 day lay over at Lewis after the Stan. Everyday I saw troops that needed to be throat punched for acting a fool. Screwing off in the commissary, bebopping around town in uniform, sweet mother of all that is holy does the AD NCO Corps do anything.

I hate the NG but that is for personal reasons but the AD that I knew and loved is dead.
Cool insight. I've only seen the NG side and have seen some pretty messed up commands and decent ones but I don't have AD experience to go off of. I've seen NCOs out to screw their troops and display horrible leadership qualities and I've seen stellar ones who took soldiers under their wing to teach everything they know.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:41 AM
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I've served on both sides of the fence. With the majority of my time being guard. Now while I can say I have personally seen some of the best and the worst leadership in the guard; AD should be ashamed of themselves. The NG has stood shoulder to shoulder with AD for 11 yrs. Yet you still disrespect and disregard their resolve.
Before my last stint in the sand I did a gunnery at Irwin. My SQD was locked up tight for fear of making me look bad in front of the Cav. Wrong.... everywhere we turned was a shining example of how not to soldier.
I did a 90 day lay over at Lewis after the Stan. Everyday I saw troops that needed to be throat punched for acting a fool. Screwing off in the commissary, bebopping around town in uniform, sweet mother of all that is holy does the AD NCO Corps do anything.

I hate the NG but that is for personal reasons but the AD that I knew and loved is dead.
It's unfortunate that you had those experiences. The same could be said from my side of the fence. The NG unit we worked with once in Astan was a bunch of undisciplined morons who acted like they were ODA and better than everyone else. The unit I was in was very disciplined, well trained and serious. Both of our experiences were limited and did not cover the entire AD/NG obviously but there are more stories similar to mine than yours and that is why AD is held to a higher degree, aside from the amount of training that occurs.

Also, the regular Army does not equal infantrymen. There are plenty of pog units out there who need an *** kicking. Staying at a major base for a few months I guarantee you saw far more non-infantry than infantry.
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Old 07-08-2014, 8:50 PM
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I've served on both sides of the fence. With the majority of my time being guard. Now while I can say I have personally seen some of the best and the worst leadership in the guard; AD should be ashamed of themselves. The NG has stood shoulder to shoulder with AD for 11 yrs. Yet you still disrespect and disregard their resolve.
Before my last stint in the sand I did a gunnery at Irwin. My SQD was locked up tight for fear of making me look bad in front of the Cav. Wrong.... everywhere we turned was a shining example of how not to soldier.
I did a 90 day lay over at Lewis after the Stan. Everyday I saw troops that needed to be throat punched for acting a fool. Screwing off in the commissary, bebopping around town in uniform, sweet mother of all that is holy does the AD NCO Corps do anything.

I hate the NG but that is for personal reasons but the AD that I knew and loved is dead.
correct. I have had only 2 CO's in my career that I would follow anywhere. one my Reserve unit in 2001-3 the best dam CO I could ever want or have. I said to him that the next CO has big shoes to fill and a standard to meet. sadly none appeared in fact several of the worst officers I have ever seen have been my CO. the CO in Iraq I had was NG and he fought for us all the time. he may have lost most of those arguments but I respect a man that will stand up for his troops and lose instead of being a yes man.

the biggest exposure to AD was on deployment in 05-06 Iraq. we had a NG BCT out of MS 155 BCT they were in charge of the FOB they may not have been totally squared away in some areas but they were hard chargers and didn't play the F F games Army likes to play. we had AD 2/11 ACR from Irwin now those guys didn't play games with hadji. they treated people with respect regardless of being AD, Reserve or NG if you were a dirtbag you were treated like one.

2/8 4th ID came in introduced garrison to the FOB and screwed the place all up. the Marines were cool they left most people alone and we didn't have to salute them. 4th ID did all kinds of stupid stuff when they arrived there were good SGM's and a few bad ones.

they didn't like the ODA there which I worked with quite a bit. ODA was on the same team and acted like that when it came to the mission and 4th ID couldn't get that part.

as we all know there are great AD units regardless of type and the same for NG and Reserve units. after 13 plus years of war the components have worked together to get the mission done no matter what crap the politicians F up. again there are F'd units everywhere and great ones that show up and do a great job.

EDIT: I knew 2/11 ACR was cool when I went to the commo tent to get the comsec for the week and they had spice channel platinum on. well there goes General Order #1 no porn in theater. LOL.
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Old 07-11-2014, 2:42 PM
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The big problem I have with all of this, is not the melding of AD NG. That phallic contest will work itself out. Down sizing period is a major concern. It's tough enough trying to find decent work when you get out of AD, now compound that with our nations current economic status.
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Old 07-11-2014, 6:44 PM
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The big problem I have with all of this, is not the melding of AD NG. That phallic contest will work itself out. Down sizing period is a major concern. It's tough enough trying to find decent work when you get out of AD, now compound that with our nations current economic status.
yep I agree there isn't much work out here in this state. some states are doing better than others. but overall the economy sucks.
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