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  #1  
Old 03-28-2014, 7:53 AM
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Default NRA comments on ammo shortage reasons

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ortage-yo.aspx

Who's to blame? We all are...

But if you feel better blaming Obama, go right ahead, after all, we have become a country of whiners, takers, and litigants.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:00 AM
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Cause and effect - it is "we all" who are buying the ammunition, but the real question is "why are we all buying the ammunition?"

Here's a simple example. I decided to stock up on some 5.45 surplus ammo in anticipation that the current administration might institute an underground regulation on surplus ammo using, say, "sporting purposes" language. Not that it happened with Korean M1-s or anything.

So the question remains when attributing cause whether it is the people who buy ammo, or the people who pose a constant threat to long term ammo supply.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ortage-yo.aspx

Who's to blame? We all are...

But if you feel better blaming Obama, go right ahead, after all, we have become a country of whiners, takers, and litigants.


I especially like how you try to pre-empt and take Obama off the table and simultaneously blame gun owners for the shortage, and not the root of the actions of the administration, Democrats, CA legislators who have pursued and continue to pursue infringement of 2A...Classy fella. The shortage is fear driven for sure, and an explosion of new gun owners buying more and more weapons. Putting the blame on gun owners is silly, they are just embracing their rights and using the power of the dollar to secure them if needed. The blame, the fault...it lands right to the doorstep of anti-2A politicians who fan the flames of any shooting as an excuse to seize your 2nd amendment, make you and I a subject and defenseless.


I do give credit to Obama. He is #1 Gun and Ammo salesman!
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:42 AM
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People are buying lots of ammo, the manufacturers are happy and adding extra capacity, the retailers are happy,and the gubament is bringing in tons of tax revenue. Other sectors of the economy should be green with envy.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:54 AM
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Well I don't know why others are buying it, but I'm buying in anticipation of ammo sales being regulated sometime in the next few years. Given that they've already tried several times in CA, it seems pretty much inevitable that they'll succeed sooner or later. I intend to have a decent backup supply by then.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:55 AM
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What ammo shortage? Now we have higher ammo prices, but no real shortage until the next panic hits. But of course we have all stocked up now, haven't we?
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Old 03-28-2014, 1:00 PM
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The only ammo there is a shortage on is .22lr. And that shortage has been manufactured by the people who buy up every shipment and then resell it at highly inflated prices on firearms messaging boards. There is not ammo shortage, Walmarts shelves have been stocked for at least a month now. All the online retailers have plenty in stock.

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Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
What ammo shortage? Now we have higher ammo prices, but no real shortage until the next panic hits. But of course we have all stocked up now, haven't we?
I've been stocking up on reloading supplies slowly. Next on my list is a Dillon XL650.
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2014, 8:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gwgn02 View Post
I especially like how you try to pre-empt and take Obama off the table and simultaneously blame gun owners for the shortage, and not the root of the actions of the administration, Democrats, CA legislators who have pursued and continue to pursue infringement of 2A...Classy fella. The shortage is fear driven for sure, and an explosion of new gun owners buying more and more weapons. Putting the blame on gun owners is silly, they are just embracing their rights and using the power of the dollar to secure them if needed. The blame, the fault...it lands right to the doorstep of anti-2A politicians who fan the flames of any shooting as an excuse to seize your 2nd amendment, make you and I a subject and defenseless.


I do give credit to Obama. He is #1 Gun and Ammo salesman!
I didn't say gun owners...the nra and industry said it. The shortage And high prices are self inflicted and now self perpetrating.

Obama and others like him created a panic. Lets hope we all remain well stocked, but anything in excess of 200,000 rounds per person (of 233) I think is overkill.

Obama is trying to over ride the constitution. 200 years ago he would pay dearly for his transgression, today he's the hero of the chicken little crowd.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:07 PM
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no shortage here either
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:08 PM
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still cant find anything on a shelf have order it all online.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
I didn't say gun owners...the nra and industry said it. The shortage And high prices are self inflicted and now self perpetrating.



Obama and others like him created a panic. Lets hope we all remain well stocked, but anything in excess of 200,000 rounds per person (of 233) I think is overkill.



Obama is trying to over ride the constitution. 200 years ago he would pay dearly for his transgression, today he's the hero of the chicken little crowd.

The panic causes by Obama has led to some of the highest gun sales ever and those new guns need ammo. It's not all that hard to understand that ammo sales go up as gun sales go up.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
The panic causes by Obama has led to some of the highest gun sales ever and those new guns need ammo. It's not all that hard to understand that ammo sales go up as gun sales go up.
Exactly. But the tin foil hat guys always want to put the blame on the government.

Im sure one day soon enough we will be stupid enough as a nation to elect a dictator who will use the apparatus built after 9/11 to stop sll gun and ammo sales, but that person is not Obama. He just wants to cancel your health insurance than fine you for not having any.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:51 PM
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Cheap .22 long-rifle caliber rifle rounds and 9mm pistol ammunition are both said to have more than tripled in price over the past five years, while .40 Smith & Wesson rounds have doubled and .45 ACP costs nearly twice what it did five years ago.
I'm gonna have to throw the BS flag here. Normal retail on .22 & 9mm are nowhere near triple. Hell, five years ago we were in the Great Ammo Drought of '09-'10. Big 5 was the only place that had .45ACP & were gouging out about around $.65/round.
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Old 03-28-2014, 9:52 PM
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I really never understood why people were hoarding ammo.

Guns? Yes, when the 2013 AWB was still a possibility, I could understand why some people would rush out and buy a gun they might never be able to purchase again.

But ammo? Why? I mean even if there was a 5 cent per bullet tax, or an ammo permit, nobody will ever be able to stock up enough ammo to shoot for the rest of their lives, or even for more than 2-3 years or so. (depending on how much you shoot). I still think the whole consumer driven ammo shortage is an example of gun owners being our own worst enemy.

I still can't find .22lr in stores AT ALL, and the centerfire ammo that is available is more than double price. Thanks to every hoarder out there who "panicked" for no reason. The article was spot on.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:21 PM
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Motley Fool is very partisan. They frequently carry water for the Dems and O'Messiah
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Old 03-29-2014, 7:57 PM
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Motley Fool is very partisan. They frequently carry water for the Dems and O'Messiah
It's a NRA report. I believe the NRA is pretty much on our side.

I guess you will believe what you want to believe, regardless of the facts, common sense, or light of day.
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Old 03-29-2014, 7:58 PM
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The panic causes by Obama has led to some of the highest gun sales ever and those new guns need ammo. It's not all that hard to understand that ammo sales go up as gun sales go up.
Most of those guns got used a couple times and now sit around collecting dust. It's not the new shooters who have been buying up all the ammo.
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Old 03-29-2014, 8:30 PM
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I've been saying this all along, people are just weird and hoarding it.

If you want to build up a stockpile do it reasonably. Buy a few boxes before you go out to shoot, exercise some self control and save one box. After a few months you'll have a decent backlog of ammo without being a jerk and clearing shelves.
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Old 03-29-2014, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
I've been saying this all along, people are just weird and hoarding it.



If you want to build up a stockpile do it reasonably. Buy a few boxes before you go out to shoot, exercise some self control and save one box. After a few months you'll have a decent backlog of ammo without being a jerk and clearing shelves.

Prior to the big shortage I used to grab a box of .22 and a few boxes of 12 ga shells anytime I was by a walmart. That is the only reason I still have any .22 left but my stock is dwindling.
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Old 03-29-2014, 9:32 PM
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Most of those guns got used a couple times and now sit around collecting dust. It's not the new shooters who have been buying up all the ammo.
Exactly.

While most would point to Democrats and Obama's threats of new restrictive gun laws as the main reason for the boom in gun/ammo sale, we can't accept that the ammo shortage is mainly the result of long time gun owners hoarding ammo.

With fewer first time gun owners...we lose potential voters to our cause. From the NY Times, " The findings contrast with the impression left by a flurry of news reports about people rushing to buy guns and clearing shop shelves of assault rifles after the massacre last year at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

“There are all these claims that gun ownership is going through the roof,” said Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. “But I suspect the increase in gun sales has been limited mostly to current gun owners. The most reputable surveys show a decline over time in the share of households with guns.”

That decline, which has been studied by researchers for years but is relatively unknown among the general public, suggests that even as the conversation on guns remains contentious, a broad shift away from gun ownership is under way in a growing number of American homes. It also raises questions about the future politics of gun control. Will efforts to regulate guns eventually meet with less resistance if they are increasingly concentrated in fewer hands — or more resistance?


Brady proponents will possibly one day point at gun owners and give us credit for future anti-gun laws as we now give credit to Obama for the boom in gun/ammo sales.

Just don't biatch when it happens.
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Old 03-29-2014, 9:54 PM
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I've seen this same thing happen to baseball card collecting and the Star Wars action figure line.

Hasbro Star Wars action figure line was the best selling toy line for many, many years. Unfortunately. The collectors would go on their daily toy hunts...showing up to the stores when it opened and buying up the highly sought, most popular hard to find figures. Then they'd rush to the other local stores and pillage those pegs for those same figures. This left the junk to the rest of the other potential consumers. So..now...they're crying when Hasbro is slowly killing that their beloved toy line. The collectors were the enthusiastic backbone of the toy line...Hasbro would actually produce toys based on polls of members of these online fan sites. However, it was the average mom and pop consumer who drove the toy line and made it profitable. After buying up all the cool figures by the collectors, there was only left the "peg warmers (figures no one wanted to buy or had already bought...and so they sat) mom and dad was left with nothing to buy for their kids- young potential collectors. collectors took the credit, but never accepted it was their daily "toy hunts" that killed the toy line. I was a member of a board and warned people. Collectors kept buying up the figures as prices kept going up and up. Average consumers, who made up most of the consumers, stop buying...collectors kept buying...sales dropped... Toy lines now faces possible cancelation. I stopped collecting when my son grew out his Star Wars phase, but it was sad to see the denial in the collecting community.
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Old 03-30-2014, 9:18 AM
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This is definitely true in my case. I think the Ruger 10/22 Takedowns are pretty awesome, and I'd like to buy one. But what's the point when I have zero chance of ever finding ammo for it? So that's at least one lost sale due to the hoarders.
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Old 03-30-2014, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Cause and effect - it is "we all" who are buying the ammunition, but the real question is "why are we all buying the ammunition?"

Here's a simple example. I decided to stock up on some 5.45 surplus ammo in anticipation that the current administration might institute an underground regulation on surplus ammo using, say, "sporting purposes" language. Not that it happened with Korean M1-s or anything.

So the question remains when attributing cause whether it is the people who buy ammo, or the people who pose a constant threat to long term ammo supply.
You were quite prescient in this one.
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Old 03-30-2014, 1:54 PM
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You were quite prescient in this one.
Seen that - bummer.

I hate when "just in case" turns to "case in point."
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Old 03-30-2014, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
The only ammo there is a shortage on is .22lr. And that shortage has been manufactured by the people who buy up every shipment and then resell it at highly inflated prices on firearms messaging boards. There is not ammo shortage, Walmarts shelves have been stocked for at least a month now. All the online retailers have plenty in stock.
Is that right? Well then good sir, can you explain to me why
70 plus shops I have been into between LA in California to Nebraska, down to Colorado and not forgetting Montana and Wyoming,
Every major Ammo outlet and most gun shops have been visited.
Not. A. Single. Rim. Fired. Round.
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Old 03-30-2014, 2:16 PM
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I'm baffled about why 22LR is scarce, but cases of .223/5.56 are stacked everywhere? With the exception of .380 auto, everything else is available locally at reasonable prices.

Why is 22LR the hoarder's cartridge of choice? Is it because it's cheap? Well, it's not cheap now, so why continue hoarding it?

Is it a "grandpa" round for pensioners to line up for at 6 am at Walmart, then go home and spend all day looking for availability online? Not too many people with jobs/careers/kids/401(k)s/529 plans will have time or extra cash to play that game just for the honor of having 60000 rounds or more stacked in the garage--with no intent to shoot it.

There's been plenty of elbow room at the rim fire section at Sac Valley which tells me all that 22LR is not getting used.

The 22LR shortage/hoarding makes no sense to me.
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Old 03-30-2014, 2:31 PM
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Is it a "grandpa" round for pensioners to line up for at 6 am at Walmart, then go home and spend all day looking for availability online? Not too many people with jobs/careers/kids/401(k)s/529 plans will have time or extra cash to play that game just for the honor of having 60000 rounds or more stacked in the garage--with no intent to shoot it.
maybe they are afraid socialist security is going to fail, so they need something for a backup
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Old 03-31-2014, 1:58 PM
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I don't count "being prepared" as being a "hoarder"---for many many years, I bought four or five bricks of 22 at a time (when it was on sale)---would shoot two or three---park the rest---next time 22 was on sale, same thing---after awhile, you have plenty. Did this with most of the calibers I shoot---not saying I have a warehouse full of ammo, but have enough to keep shooting and for SHTF situation. Oh, did the same with canned goods and water---just in case an EQ or something similar...
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Old 03-31-2014, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ortage-yo.aspx

Who's to blame? We all are...

But if you feel better blaming Obama, go right ahead, after all, we have become a country of whiners, takers, and litigants.
I remember this incident well after the LAST ammo shortage a few years back. The blowhard in front of me asked if they had any Mini-Mags? The clerk said they did. His response was:

"I'll take every ~!@#$%^&*()_+ box of Mini-Mags you have!!" Without missing a beat the clerk deadpanned "you're going to need another cart" -- they had a whole pallet of the stuff. He ended-up buying 4 boxes.

The blowhards have done a real number once again. Thankfully things are opening-up a bit.

Notice there never seemed to be a shortage (for the most part) with shotgun shells? All it would have taken was a blurb on the nightly news and there would have been a sustained run on shotgun shells also.
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Old 03-31-2014, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
I remember this incident well after the LAST ammo shortage a few years back. The blowhard in front of me asked if they had any Mini-Mags? The clerk said they did. His response was:



"I'll take every ~!@#$%^&*()_+ box of Mini-Mags you have!!" Without missing a beat the clerk deadpanned "you're going to need another cart" -- they had a whole pallet of the stuff. He ended-up buying 4 boxes.



The blowhards have done a real number once again. Thankfully things are opening-up a bit.



Notice there never seemed to be a shortage (for the most part) with shotgun shells? All it would have taken was a blurb on the nightly news and there would have been a sustained run on shotgun shells also.

I was just in Walmart and they didn't have a single box of 12ga.
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Old 03-31-2014, 3:56 PM
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I can't believe it!! A couple of posters who didn't twist my post to accuse me of embracing communism and the killing of a children , etc.

We all (of rational minds) know the real cause. It would serve us all well to avoid buying from the scalpers and let them eat their dust covered hoards of 22lr

With increased industry capacity, lower lead and copper pricing, and an eventual glut caused by innumerable stashes of ammo we will see ammo prices fall once the panic and hoarding end. And once the leading gun grabber leaves the White House the panic might end. Unless of course Hillary wins and than all bets are off. She will make Obama look like a right wing redneck gun lover in comparison
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Old 03-31-2014, 4:02 PM
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People are buying lots of ammo, the manufacturers are happy and adding extra capacity, the retailers are happy,and the gubament is bringing in tons of tax revenue. Other sectors of the economy should be green with envy.
"Green" with envy???

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  #33  
Old 03-31-2014, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
I can't believe it!! A couple of posters who didn't twist my post to accuse me of embracing communism and the killing of a children , etc.

We all (of rational minds) know the real cause. It would serve us all well to avoid buying from the scalpers and let them eat their dust covered hoards of 22lr

With increased industry capacity, lower lead and copper pricing, and an eventual glut caused by innumerable stashes of ammo we will see ammo prices fall once the panic and hoarding end. And once the leading gun grabber leaves the White House the panic might end. Unless of course Hillary wins and than all bets are off. She will make Obama look like a right wing redneck gun lover in comparison
One of the reasons .22LR is so impacted is because unlike centerfire cartridge lines, rimfire lines cannot be re-tooled to focus on "popular" calibers. There is also a far greater capital investment for producing rimfire.

Remington, Winchester, CCI, etc. realize just what you are saying. The bubble will pop (again) and they will have PLENTY of capacity.
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2014, 5:43 PM
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There is also a far greater capital investment for producing rimfire.
I'm curious about this; please explain.
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Old 03-31-2014, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
There is not ammo shortage, Walmarts shelves have been stocked for at least a month now.

Not the Walmarts in my area, they never have 9mm or 45acp in stock. Just checked again online, zip.

I am also going for a Dillon 650, my next big purchase. Other than powder I have everything ready to go.
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2014, 5:46 PM
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I also remember the news video of a non-gun owner walking up to the ammo counter at a sporting goods shop. This was a couple of "shortages" ago. The ammo display was absolutely wiped-out.

The clerk said something like "I have some .505 Gibbs and some .220 Swift" shaking his head. She bought a 6-pack of the Gibbs!

Fools come in all shapes and sizes.
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  #37  
Old 03-31-2014, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
One of the reasons .22LR is so impacted is because unlike centerfire cartridge lines, rimfire lines cannot be re-tooled to focus on "popular" calibers. There is also a far greater capital investment for producing rimfire.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMikeL View Post
I'm curious about this; please explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
One of the reasons .22LR is so impacted is because unlike centerfire cartridge lines, rimfire lines cannot be re-tooled to focus on "popular" calibers.
i.e. you need a dedicated machine. Kinda like buying a whole new Dillon progressive when you start loading a new caliber.

The manufacturers know this bubble will end sometime. They don't want to be stuck with a whole lot of excess hardware/unused capacity.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224
I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
Quote:
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A Colt collector shooting Rugers is like Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley with a hooker.
  #38  
Old 03-31-2014, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
We all (of rational minds) know the real cause. It would serve us all well to avoid buying from the scalpers and let them eat their dust covered hoards of 22lr
I saw lots of overpriced .22lr at the gun show this weekend. Asked them how much for a brick and when they said $80 I just laughed and walked off.
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2014, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
I saw lots of overpriced .22lr at the gun show this weekend. Asked them how much for a brick and when they said $80 I just laughed and walked off.

You can find .22 everywhere online just not for what we are used to paying. I started buying some good stuff since I refuse to pay those crazy prices for crappy thunderbolt.
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2014, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camcojb View Post
Not the Walmarts in my area, they never have 9mm or 45acp in stock. Just checked again online, zip.
I see lots of each listed on Gunbot.

Quote:
I am also going for a Dillon 650, my next big purchase. Other than powder I have everything ready to go.
I'm starting to lean towards the 1050 because of the swager station. Although for that price I could get two of the 650s and just set one up for case prep with the aftermarket swager tool that replaces the primer feed. I'll probably end up just getting a 650 for now then add another one later and move up to the 1050 in a few years.
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