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  #81  
Old 03-25-2014, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
We, no not we, the police and the courts. They will treat him just like the criminal he is.
looks like judging to me
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  #82  
Old 03-25-2014, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by glockman19 View Post
Today in CA it is illegal to Open Carry a loaded firearm. It is also illegal to Conceal Carry, (unless you have a permit)...
IMHO, in CA ALL forms of carry being unavailable is unconstitutional, therefore making your CHOICE of carry Concealed...permit or not.
I do think that if you were caught, AFTER being denied a permit would be more defensible, as you can NOT deny a Constitutional Right...especially when that right is specifically written to LIMIT government.
i like this one
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  #83  
Old 03-25-2014, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by evidens83 View Post
Why carry illegally? Just walk in, fill out some paperwork, get your photo taken, and pay the $50. I got my CPL license in 2 weeks
i wish it was that easy
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  #84  
Old 03-26-2014, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Compare that with the language of American rights ! ...endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights....!

I agree that the only permit required is US citisenship .
So... only U.S Citizens were endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights?

That's a lot of arrogance and ignorance twisted together and a very deliberate omission of the words "all men are created equal" to get there.





Back on topic... I believe what you are talking about is someone who has moved from law abiding citizen to peaceable citizen.


Not for me to judge unless I catch jury duty. Certainly not the person I would worry about - I worry about are the criminals using them as offensive weapons. Hence I would like to see concealed and open carry as constitutional carry further down the road we are traveling.
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Last edited by pastureofmuppets; 03-26-2014 at 1:12 AM..
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  #85  
Old 03-26-2014, 2:29 AM
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I have wondered for a long time what are the consequences of having CCW,
there must be many, are there any downsides that any official knows you are carrying?
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6
N
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  #86  
Old 03-26-2014, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninask View Post
I have wondered for a long time what are the consequences of having CCW,
there must be many, are there any downsides that any official knows you are carrying?
I can't think of any consequences at all.

You have a few additional requirements, like keeping up with changes in the law and ensuring you know the few places where carrying is forbidden, and a few additional responsibilities, like maintaining your skill set.

You could play tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory what-if games .. what if the gov't did this or that and probably imagine some consequences if you wanted to. But, absent those fantasies I don't know of any.
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  #87  
Old 03-26-2014, 9:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Corsair415 View Post
I would vote to acquit anyone who used an illegally concealed weapon for reasonable self defense of all charges related to the incident.
I disagree with the law as much as you do. However as a juror you can't ignore the laws that you don't agree with. In fact jurors take an oath to among other things follow the law. The oath usually goes something like this:

"You, as jurors, are the judges of the facts. But in determining what actually happened–that is, in reaching your decision as to the facts–it is your sworn duty to follow all of the rules of law as I explain them to you.
You have no right to disregard or give special attention to any one instruction, or to question the wisdom or correctness of any rule I may state to you. You must not substitute or follow your own notion or opinion as to what the law is or ought to be. It is your duty to apply the law as I explain it to you, regardless of the consequences. However, you should not read into these instructions, or anything else I may have said or done, any suggestion as to what your verdict should be. That is entirely up to you.
It is also your duty to base your verdict solely upon the evidence, without prejudice or sympathy. That was the promise you made and the oath you took."
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  #88  
Old 03-26-2014, 8:27 PM
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I'm way more likely to get jailed for illegal carrying than actually drawing. I'm probably more likely to die from catching hepatitis in jail than being beaten/killed. The smart money is on following the laws.
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  #89  
Old 03-27-2014, 12:09 AM
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A man is a criminal for carrying a gun illegally, when he has a Non-criminal intent, self protection?
The letter of the law says yes, spirit of the law could say no.

I know a guy who claims to have carried illegal for 15 years, because he has no criminal intent.
I know another guy who bought his wife a CCW gun to carry illegally, he says its easier to get her out of jail, than out of the morgue.
I met another older guy who dealt in legal ivory products and lots of cash, was pulled over in SD, cop sees the gun on the floor. He explained his situation, and cop tells him to put it in the trunk.
I know an LAPD guy who has let people go for carrying illegally in their car, he says they have no record and are not scum bags, so they deserve self protection.
Years ago, there was a news story about a woman sitting in her car, criminal scum bag throws a rope around her neck and pulls her from the car, dragging her down the road. She was able to get her pistol and shoot the guy, i think she did not kill him. The LA pos DA was debating filing charges against her for carrying illegally.


and NO, i have never carried illegally.
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  #90  
Old 03-27-2014, 5:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter View Post
I disagree with the law as much as you do. However as a juror you can't ignore the laws that you don't agree with. In fact jurors take an oath to among other things follow the law. The oath usually goes something like this:
I would be following the law, only I'd be following the one that supercedes the one they'd like me to.
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  #91  
Old 03-27-2014, 7:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garand1911 View Post
A man is a criminal for carrying a gun illegally, when he has a Non-criminal intent, self protection?
The letter of the law says yes, spirit of the law could say no.

I know a guy who claims to have carried illegal for 15 years, because he has no criminal intent.
I know another guy who bought his wife a CCW gun to carry illegally, he says its easier to get her out of jail, than out of the morgue.
I met another older guy who dealt in legal ivory products and lots of cash, was pulled over in SD, cop sees the gun on the floor. He explained his situation, and cop tells him to put it in the trunk.
I know an LAPD guy who has let people go for carrying illegally in their car, he says they have no record and are not scum bags, so they deserve self protection.
Years ago, there was a news story about a woman sitting in her car, criminal scum bag throws a rope around her neck and pulls her from the car, dragging her down the road. She was able to get her pistol and shoot the guy, i think she did not kill him. The LA pos DA was debating filing charges against her for carrying illegally.


and NO, i have never carried illegally.
I have had two friends that were arrested for carrying illegally.

One of them, upon hearing stories that cops will just let law abiding citizens go with a warning, carried on a regular basis. One day, he got caught by Orange County Sheriff's Department. He admitted to it and they arrested/jailed him. He was charged with four misdemeanors. He ended up pleading no contest to two misdemeanors (conceal carry without permit and loaded firearm in public), paid a $900 fine and was given 5 years probation, during which he could not possess firearms/ammunition (he had to sell all his firearms to comply with this).

The other one, was moving and forgot that one of the boxes had his dad's loaded handgun. Riverside County Sheriff's Department pulled him over for "reckless driving" and searched his car. They found the loaded handgun and arrested/jailed him. He was charged with two felonies. He ended up retaining a lawyer and after $15,000 in legal fees, plead no contest to one misdemeanor (loaded firearm in public) and was give 5 years probation, during which he could not possess firearms/ammunition (all his firearms were gifted to his dad).
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  #92  
Old 03-27-2014, 7:31 AM
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The founding fathers did many "illegal" acts (as determined by the Crown) which resulted in building the greatest nation in history. America has rapidly become the land of the coward, home of the slave.
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  #93  
Old 03-27-2014, 7:46 AM
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[QUOTE=Sharp Shooter;13731466]I disagree with the law as much as you do. However as a juror you can't ignore the laws that you don't agree with. QUOTE]

It that from the Nuremberg trials testimony?
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  #94  
Old 03-27-2014, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. P View Post
America has rapidly become the land of the coward, home of the slave.
This country started out with slavery. They enslaved the natives and then put them on "reservations".

In other words, nothing new!
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  #95  
Old 03-27-2014, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garand1911 View Post
A man is a criminal for carrying a gun illegally, when he has a Non-criminal intent, self protection?
The letter of the law says yes, spirit of the law could say no.

I know a guy who claims to have carried illegal for 15 years, because he has no criminal intent.
I know another guy who bought his wife a CCW gun to carry illegally, he says its easier to get her out of jail, than out of the morgue.
I met another older guy who dealt in legal ivory products and lots of cash, was pulled over in SD, cop sees the gun on the floor. He explained his situation, and cop tells him to put it in the trunk.
I know an LAPD guy who has let people go for carrying illegally in their car, he says they have no record and are not scum bags, so they deserve self protection.
Years ago, there was a news story about a woman sitting in her car, criminal scum bag throws a rope around her neck and pulls her from the car, dragging her down the road. She was able to get her pistol and shoot the guy, i think she did not kill him. The LA pos DA was debating filing charges against her for carrying illegally.

and NO, i have never carried illegally.
Why does that make him a POS?

It's his job to "consider" filing charges. How many times a day do you "consider" doing something that you don't (quite reasonably) do. Heck, just about every day I "consider" saying something that I never will say.

That's why I still have a job and I'm still married....

What important is whether or not he DID file charges.
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  #96  
Old 03-27-2014, 9:50 AM
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Since we're on the subject. Is it possible to carry a handgun in the car but with a lock and such. Am I only allowed to do that for transportation purposes or can I keep it locked in the box in the glove?
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  #97  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SammieT View Post
Since we're on the subject. Is it possible to carry a handgun in the car but with a lock and such. Am I only allowed to do that for transportation purposes or can I keep it locked in the box in the glove?
Unloaded and locked is fine, but a car is probably the riskiest place you can store a firearm considering thieves are often looking to get in and take your stereo, iPod, or phone.
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  #98  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
The founders believed that govt cannot give rights ! If govt is the source of rights they are not rights but privedges that can revoked by those in power ! Driving is a perfect example ! It's not your right to drive a car, but a privilege granted to you by the state . It can be revoked quite easily too .

Compare that with the language of American rights ! ...endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights....!
I agree that the only permit required is US citisenship .
Simple and eloquent.

The founders knew all too well the dangers of government power.

Life, Liberty and the persute of Happiness.

Life, and the protection (preservation) of.

Defense of one's life by any and all means available.

This is what is meant by God (Creator) given rights.
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  #99  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Unloaded and locked is fine, but a car is probably the riskiest place you can store a firearm considering thieves are often looking to get in and take your stereo, iPod, or phone.
True. But I shouldn't run into any illegal issues? I know the ammo has to be separated and locked in a different location. other than that, shouldn't be any issues
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  #100  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
There have been instances in the past involving variations of this type of scenario.

One of which happen in NYC in 1984.
1. Person illegally conceal carrying stopped robbery on subway by shooting the four criminals committing the robbery.
2. Was arrested and jailed.
3. Charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and illegal concealed carry of an unregistered firearm.
4. Was only found guilty of illegal concealed carry of an unregistered firearm.
5. Sentenced to 1 year in prison.
6. Criminals he shot filed civil lawsuit and won. They were awarded $43 million in damages.
The person you refer to was recently arrested for drug trafficking charges. He learned bad thing while doing his time.
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  #101  
Old 03-27-2014, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SammieT View Post
True. But I shouldn't run into any illegal issues? I know the ammo has to be separated and locked in a different location. other than that, shouldn't be any issues
As long as the gun is in a locked container, you are fine. Ammo does NOT have to be in a separate container. It's only that ammo/mag can not be inserted in the gun.

The wisdom of leaving a firearm in an unoccupied vehicle is a different topic.
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  #102  
Old 03-27-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SammieT View Post
True. But I shouldn't run into any illegal issues? I know the ammo has to be separated and locked in a different location. other than that, shouldn't be any issues
Honestly though, the locked requirement kind of makes any reason to have it in your vehicle moot as far as protection goes. If you could get to your vehicle to access your firearm you likely could have reasonably used your vehicle to escape the threat without putting yourself in greater danger. Might as well just leave it home.
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  #103  
Old 03-27-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Honestly though, the locked requirement kind of makes any reason to have it in your vehicle moot as far as protection goes. If you could get to your vehicle to access your firearm you likely could have reasonably used your vehicle to escape the threat without putting yourself in greater danger. Might as well just leave it home.
True, but I Carry a lot of cash ($5-$10k a week) for the business work I do. Going for a CCW soon. that's why I wanted to ask so I have something till my application is processed




Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
As long as the gun is in a locked container, you are fine. Ammo does NOT have to be in a separate container. It's only that ammo/mag can not be inserted in the gun.

The wisdom of leaving a firearm in an unoccupied vehicle is a different topic.
True but rather have it in the car if anything happens
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  #104  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Garand1911 View Post
A man is a criminal for carrying a gun illegally, when he has a Non-criminal intent, self protection?
The letter of the law says yes, spirit of the law could say no.

I know a guy who claims to have carried illegal for 15 years, because he has no criminal intent.
I know another guy who bought his wife a CCW gun to carry illegally, he says its easier to get her out of jail, than out of the morgue.
I met another older guy who dealt in legal ivory products and lots of cash, was pulled over in SD, cop sees the gun on the floor. He explained his situation, and cop tells him to put it in the trunk.
I know an LAPD guy who has let people go for carrying illegally in their car, he says they have no record and are not scum bags, so they deserve self protection.
Years ago, there was a news story about a woman sitting in her car, criminal scum bag throws a rope around her neck and pulls her from the car, dragging her down the road. She was able to get her pistol and shoot the guy, i think she did not kill him. The LA pos DA was debating filing charges against her for carrying illegally.


and NO, i have never carried illegally.


I AM NOT ADVISING CARRYING ILLEGALLY, just saying some have and gotten away with it.
More often than not , YOU WILL BE ARRESTED.
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  #105  
Old 03-27-2014, 10:22 PM
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Why does that make him a POS?

It's his job to "consider" filing charges. How many times a day do you "consider" doing something that you don't (quite reasonably) do. Heck, just about every day I "consider" saying something that I never will say.

That's why I still have a job and I'm still married....

What important is whether or not he DID file charges.

He was a POS because of the person he was, a long list of reasons why.
The news never said if he did file against her ...but, just my opinion he would be a POS for filing against a woman who defended herself from being murdered and raped, just because she was carrying illegally. One less bad guy on the street due to her "illegal" action.
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  #106  
Old 03-28-2014, 2:39 AM
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Originally Posted by junior40er View Post
I would bet its almost 100 percent youre screwed if caught. Even a pro 2a LEO will arrest you because he may lose his job if he lets you go.
This brings up an interesting side effect to cameras on officers re: officer discretion. I would bet more officers lean to arresting versus letting go due to administrative review of the tapes if something else happens on that shift.
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Over reaction to non-crimes by State loyalists. If they keep up their heavy handed crap, soon it'll be a better gamble to shoot at cops before they even start bothering you considering the amount of time they're willing to put you in prison for if you cooperate.

Seems like that pendulum is about to shift.
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  #107  
Old 03-28-2014, 7:06 AM
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I would bet its almost 100 percent youre screwed if caught. Even a pro 2a LEO will arrest you because he may lose his job if he lets you go.
Pretty sure this completely depends on where you are.

Remember there are many parts of this state where CCW isn't a dirty word and the police and politicians support it.
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  #108  
Old 03-28-2014, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
Pretty sure this completely depends on where you are.

Remember there are many parts of this state where CCW isn't a dirty word and the police and politicians support it.
ElDub,

Thanks for this post. You're pretty much right on point.

The Penal Code contains some very specific guidance concerning officer discretion, and the inappropriateness of "enforcing the letter of the law."

LEO's do possess a wide latitude of discretion in the making of arrests, although the trend seems to be more limiting of that discretion (particularly in domestic violence cases). The idea is that you arrest someone because they need to go jail, not simply because you can.
It may be good to give a very close read to Penal Code section 4. There's a reason they put this section on the first page of the code. Here's the text:

"The rule of the common law, that penal statutes are to be strictly construed, has no application to this Code. All its provisions are to be construed according to the fair import of their terms, with a view to effect its objects and to promote justice."
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  #109  
Old 03-28-2014, 9:24 PM
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Only time I would ever consider this is if I broke down in a desolate area late at night and had to walk it a few miles to a gas station.
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  #110  
Old 03-28-2014, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
We, no not we, the police and the courts. They will treat him just like the criminal he is.
Well look at you. You're really a pompas ***. Carrying a gun without government permission is illegal because the government says it is, but criminal ? No, not really.

To be clear, it's not a crime of violence, not a property crime, or for that matter, an offense that injures or hurts another person. It's simply a regulatory violation. You know, like driving without a drivers license, not getting a license for your dog, or any number of regulatory violations that a person would roll their eyes at, and blow off as B.S.

Put another way, people in four other states can do what is considered a misdemeanor in this SOCIALIST state.

So before you go labeling someone a criminal, think about who the alleged "victim" is. Is it a real person that was victimized by someone not adhering to a regulation, or is it the state that wants nothing more than to disarm you and me.
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  #111  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hunterb View Post
I understand and share your sentiment.

But you must also remember: If you get caught carrying illegally, they will use it to vilify you, to ruin your life, to MAKE YOU INTO A CRIMINAL.

Because you see, we live in THE BIGGEST POLICE STATE IN THE WORLD. The prisons must be kept full to keep the corporations that own them in the profits. The corporations legally own our political system through unlimited campaign contributions. Anything that threatens them will be crushed by the government jackboots (police, DEA, ATF, FBI, NSA, etc).

Keep your feelings secret, and wait for the correct time for action. Play their little bureaucratic game, and stay off the radar.

You get my vote for an all time epic post. Well done sir
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  #112  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallabing View Post
How are we to judge him?
Unless I am sitting in the jury box at his trail it is not for me to judge him. It is not a decision I would make, but only he knows the circumstances that led to his decision.
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  #113  
Old 03-29-2014, 9:43 PM
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packnrat packnrat is offline
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well years back when i owned acres up a not public dirt rd yes i always had a pistol on me. shotgun at the ready.
not so much for the two leg threat, (as every body around did the same), but more for a bad dog. (wild or rabid).
shot gun for rattlers.
here in the hills of ca it is normal to find guns in most pu trucks and even moms suv.
the county police are only a hr + away.
your rifle is at your bed side.
but then having most places/people armed crime is low here.
but we do have a larger than the norm number of meth labs.
people are gona get high no mater what.
look at the tract homes in the citys turned into pot growers.

guns are treated as a very bad thing but in truth are not such a big deal.
most shootings are in the dark geatos of the citys. and/ or involve know ganbangers.
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