Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > OUTDOORS, HUNTING AND SURVIVAL > Survival and Preparations
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 11-13-2013, 9:55 AM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypriss32 View Post
How is the us Palm level 4 stuff they have forsale now? It is about 499.99.
These are most likely based on the ESAPI plates. Same cautions regarding fragility as other ceramic plates. It is not a bad package price, if you require level IV protection.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 11-21-2013, 1:07 AM
Leonidimus's Avatar
Leonidimus Leonidimus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 128
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
You might check out the plates by MAINGUN Surplus. They are Mil-Spec HHS (High Hardness Steel). At the given thickness, they should stop M193 at 3000+ fps. Plus, they are extremely affordable. After testing, I may be recommending these as the baseline steel plate.
Thanks, these "Patriot Plates" look promising. The weight is about the same as ar500.com plates, which is good. They're not curved, unfortunately.
So, is MIL-A-46100 significantly better than AR500? They also mention "the highest performing" MIL-DTL-46100E; do I understand it correctly that it's different from MIL-A?
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 11-21-2013, 12:17 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidimus View Post
Thanks, these "Patriot Plates" look promising. The weight is about the same as ar500.com plates, which is good. They're not curved, unfortunately.
So, is MIL-A-46100 significantly better than AR500? They also mention "the highest performing" MIL-DTL-46100E; do I understand it correctly that it's different from MIL-A?
IMHO, the Patriot Plates are currently the best combination of performance and price point. The lack of curvature is a consideration, but minor when you compare the performance you are getting in return. The specs listed are similar for High Hardness Steel plate, with a nominal hardness between Brinell 477-534. The material is inherently superior to AR500.

Last edited by d-r; 11-23-2013 at 5:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 11-23-2013, 4:37 PM
Cypriss32's Avatar
Cypriss32 Cypriss32 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Farm Land........
Posts: 5,669
iTrader: 143 / 100%
Default

Anyone looked at the US palm SAP-C plate carrier. Says level IV. I watched a few videos doing testing and looks good.
__________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-- Thomas Paine


Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 11-23-2013, 5:24 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypriss32 View Post
Anyone looked at the US palm SAP-C plate carrier. Says level IV. I watched a few videos doing testing and looks good.
See my response in post #162
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 11-23-2013, 5:39 PM
Cypriss32's Avatar
Cypriss32 Cypriss32 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Farm Land........
Posts: 5,669
iTrader: 143 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
See my response in post #162
Thanks, I am looking for something Level III that is slim line. I can still put a jacket over it when worn. Any ideas?
__________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-- Thomas Paine


Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 11-23-2013, 6:37 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypriss32 View Post
Thanks, I am looking for something Level III that is slim line. I can still put a jacket over it when worn. Any ideas?
With level III vs. level IV, the level III will nearly always be thinner. Nearly always. The cost for shaving millimeters of thickness off of a level IV plate gets exponentially higher vs. level III. Steel is still going to be the thinnest level III you can get, with the best at around 4.5mm + your chosen spall mitigation solution. I may have an ultra-low profile solution for you very soon.
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 11-23-2013, 7:39 PM
Cypriss32's Avatar
Cypriss32 Cypriss32 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Farm Land........
Posts: 5,669
iTrader: 143 / 100%
Default

Please let me know.
__________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-- Thomas Paine


Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 11-24-2013, 10:39 PM
Digital_Boy's Avatar
Digital_Boy Digital_Boy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 930
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

D-R, have you done any research into Modumetal, or seen any companies incorporating the technology into their product lines?

My read on it is they've found a way to apply nano scale technology to traditional steel processes. They have a quick video that demonstrates what appears to be a nanolattice spall guard over a (I'm guessing here) energy absorption core.

http://www.modumetal.com/products/armor/
__________________
Originally posted by sierratangofoxtrotunion:

Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 11-25-2013, 8:55 AM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Boy View Post
D-R, have you done any research into Modumetal, or seen any companies incorporating the technology into their product lines?

My read on it is they've found a way to apply nano scale technology to traditional steel processes. They have a quick video that demonstrates what appears to be a nanolattice spall guard over a (I'm guessing here) energy absorption core.

http://www.modumetal.com/products/armor/
I have not seen any commercially available nano-laminates yet. There is a company utilizing carbon nanotubes as an additive, but they are using Spectra materials as the base, which renders the material not-suitable for soft armor.

The technology (Modumetal) sounds promising, when it can be scaled up to apply to large volumes of plates.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 12-07-2013, 12:53 PM
andrews556's Avatar
andrews556 andrews556 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Jose
Posts: 16
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
"armor is one of those things that should be in everyone's kit bag."

I have mixed feelings about armor. If Im getting shot at and get hit in the hand and there is no medical attention available I'll probably die of infection or bleeding. If I get hit in the leg same thing as before. If I get hit in the arm also same thing.

My feeling is best to not get into a fight or avoid one at ALL costs. But if you are getting shot at and you are lucky enough to have soft vests and hard plates and the magic bullets hits that plate then its your lucky day. If the shooter has AP 308 then its game over probably.

So my question is do I spend $2,000 dollars on something that protects half my body?

Great write up and thanks for the info.

While it may not be the absolute best option, I have a Banshee armor carrier (which I love) and AR500 level 3 rifle plates. It is definitely a bit heavier but if you are in shape and train like everyone should than it's not a big deal. The vest and 2 plates will only cost around $320 and is a practical option for the average person that does not have a ton of money.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 12-11-2013, 10:20 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Any armor is better than none at all. Steel plates make more sense for someone on a budget, they can be upgraded as funds permit.

Also, if steel plates are too heavy, I am reminded of a quote from an excellent movie: "Grow stronger!"

Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 12-13-2013, 8:13 AM
smashycrashy smashycrashy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,049
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

I was reading that soft body armor has issues when exposed to heat over long periods. Is there a soft body armor that could take sitting in the back of a car trunk over long periods of time and still retain its effectiveness?
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 12-13-2013, 9:10 AM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashycrashy View Post
I was reading that soft body armor has issues when exposed to heat over long periods. Is there a soft body armor that could take sitting in the back of a car trunk over long periods of time and still retain its effectiveness?
You are correct, but only regarding soft armor containing UHMWPE (SPECTRA/DYNEEMA) or laminates (Goldflex, Goldshield). These materials will denature above 169 F for the UHMWPE and 200 for the laminates.

Armor made from 100% WOVEN ARAMID will be fine up to 650-700 F with no loss of ballistic effectiveness. UV light and mold/mildew/bacteria are the only things that will cause degradation of this material, so keeping it out of DIRECT sunlight and cleaning occasionally with baking soda and warm distilled water are good preventative maintenance routines.

You need to be dilligent when selecting armor, as many, if not most, contain either laminates or UHMWPE these days. US Armor's Enforcer Classic is 100% woven Aramid (Kevlar and/or Twaron).
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 01-13-2014, 7:52 PM
rero360 rero360 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 3,659
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

I was able to pick up a set of Velocity System triple curve III/IV plates (VS-P34-1012) for a great price to go with the backers that I've had for the last year or so. Everything I've looked at says that they are heavier than the ESAPIs I wore in the 'Stan (I wore smalls) but my PC feels lighter, maybe its the lack of radio, antennae or giant god awful Condor IFAK they insisted we wear on our left side. Same number and type of mags and all that though.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 01-13-2014, 8:14 PM
fallfornoone's Avatar
fallfornoone fallfornoone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: I did notice how far over I've moved this part of my info. I tried it, and it was fun.
Posts: 1,653
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

I picked up some ar500 plates with liner (might be linex). Seems like I could have made a better choice. Can I put any kind of plates or soft armor in front of the plates to increase the threat level? The guardian IV seem to be pretty good plates also, any opinions on theses?
__________________
Front Sight Ambassador
Please contact me for more information regarding Front Sight, Course Certificates and Memberships
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 01-13-2014, 10:21 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallfornoone View Post
I picked up some ar500 plates with liner (might be linex). Seems like I could have made a better choice. Can I put any kind of plates or soft armor in front of the plates to increase the threat level? The guardian IV seem to be pretty good plates also, any opinions on theses?
In a word, no. Putting soft armor on the strike face of rifle plates will not increase the threat level one bit, since rifle rounds do not "see" soft armor. As backers, they work well to catch rear face spall or rounds that *just* penetrate the plates. For front face spall, special types of material can act as a guard to prevent the impacting bullet fragments from exiting at high velocity and possibly causing injury.

The Guardian 4 plates are a decent option if you need to be certain of stopping M2AP. The fragility issues are present, but the price point is good.

Last edited by d-r; 01-13-2014 at 10:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 01-14-2014, 10:03 AM
fallfornoone's Avatar
fallfornoone fallfornoone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: I did notice how far over I've moved this part of my info. I tried it, and it was fun.
Posts: 1,653
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
In a word, no. Putting soft armor on the strike face of rifle plates will not increase the threat level one bit, since rifle rounds do not "see" soft armor. As backers, they work well to catch rear face spall or rounds that *just* penetrate the plates. For front face spall, special types of material can act as a guard to prevent the impacting bullet fragments from exiting at high velocity and possibly causing injury.

The Guardian 4 plates are a decent option if you need to be certain of stopping M2AP. The fragility issues are present, but the price point is good.
would you reccomend adding backers and some additional spall guard (in addition to the linex plate) to increase protection or just getting new level IV plates?


Ive used my carrier at a front sight course and it worked out pretty good. My goal would be to have level IV protection and plates that can stop xm193, that seems to be something few can do and those rounds are very popular. Besides using the carrier at front sight and rifle classes my intention was to have this for emergency/shft/bug out gear. Steel is nice because you can be rough with it but you are missing protection.
__________________
Front Sight Ambassador
Please contact me for more information regarding Front Sight, Course Certificates and Memberships
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 01-14-2014, 12:59 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

If you are sticking with the steel, then yes, guards and backers are definitely recommended. Again, they will not bring a level III plate up to level IV standards. They make the plates safer by reducing the chance of injury due to spall, and adding blunt force padding and rear face overmatch protection.

If you need M193 protection, get a set of TAP GAMMA III plates. If you need to have protection against a single round (up to and including M2AP), then get a set of level IV plates. Just remember, it is probably better to have multi-hit protection against more common rounds rather than have one-shot and then junk 'em level IV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallfornoone View Post
would you reccomend adding backers and some additional spall guard (in addition to the linex plate) to increase protection or just getting new level IV plates?


Ive used my carrier at a front sight course and it worked out pretty good. My goal would be to have level IV protection and plates that can stop xm193, that seems to be something few can do and those rounds are very popular. Besides using the carrier at front sight and rifle classes my intention was to have this for emergency/shft/bug out gear. Steel is nice because you can be rough with it but you are missing protection.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 01-17-2014, 6:55 AM
gicts gicts is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 19
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default Adding side plates?

Hey guys,

I picked up my first PC recently, just a cheap Voodoo FAST. For a civie doing a few courses and getting a feel for what I want, I think the carrier will do for now.

The one thing I don't care for is there doesn't seem to be an option for side plates. There is a big ole plastic buckle on the side.

I've seen a MOLLE pouch that attaches to the sides to carry plates. Is this something that could work? I think it would end up covering the buckle, which would make donning and doffing on one side a PITA.

Any suggestions (minus getting another pc)?
Reply With Quote
  #181  
Old 01-17-2014, 9:11 AM
smashycrashy smashycrashy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,049
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

There are pouches and cummerbunds but I don't think the cummerbunds work without at least a loop to hold it with the plate carrier.

For the cost of the pouches or standalone cummerbund you can get a PC with integrated but removable cummerbund, cheap but works:
http://www.condoroutdoor.com/mopc_mo...e_carrier.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:28 AM
gicts gicts is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 19
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

So something like this wouldn't be a worthwhile workaround?

Ebay link
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:34 AM
smashycrashy smashycrashy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,049
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Make sure they are big enough to bridge the gap on the side. Some are designed to attach to a molle cummerbund that is on the side but doesn't have pockets for plates. If it bridges the gap that's a great price
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 01-19-2014, 2:01 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

The Voodoo FAST is not set up for side armor or cummerbund inserts. The straps are permanent. A workaround could be designed that piggybacks off of the straps, and could profile a molle soft armor cummerbund. Plates would be too heavy, and since it is a single strap, would cause it to roll to the outside. The Condor is a good option if you want side plates/armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gicts View Post
Hey guys,

I picked up my first PC recently, just a cheap Voodoo FAST. For a civie doing a few courses and getting a feel for what I want, I think the carrier will do for now.

The one thing I don't care for is there doesn't seem to be an option for side plates. There is a big ole plastic buckle on the side.

I've seen a MOLLE pouch that attaches to the sides to carry plates. Is this something that could work? I think it would end up covering the buckle, which would make donning and doffing on one side a PITA.

Any suggestions (minus getting another pc)?
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 01-20-2014, 7:32 PM
DeliveryBoy's Avatar
DeliveryBoy DeliveryBoy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orange County
Posts: 184
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

So whats the verdict on the new plate DBT released... KAP III+ ?
__________________
WTB S&W Model 10 or S&W 357 (of various models) 3 or 4" barrel.

Stay Safe and Shoot Straight.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 01-20-2014, 8:05 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: O.C. CA. now Occupied Territory.
Posts: 16,480
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews556 View Post
While it may not be the absolute best option, I have a Banshee armor carrier (which I love) and AR500 level 3 rifle plates. It is definitely a bit heavier but if you are in shape and train like everyone should than it's not a big deal. The vest and 2 plates will only cost around $320 and is a practical option for the average person that does not have a ton of money.
did you get the Kevlar inserts for it? I have one and I have added those to my Banshee. I use the plates I have from my IBA I wore in Iraq. it was my personal one I used it up until the Army said no more personal IBA in theater.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boberama View Post
Ok. You should know how to play. I say I see something that begins with a letter.
You find out what it is.
I spy with my little eye something that begins with a "C".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Chlamydia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyXbones View Post
The silhouette of an AR-15 is as appealing to the general public as a dildo.
In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 01-21-2014, 11:48 AM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryBoy View Post
So whats the verdict on the new plate DBT released... KAP III+ ?
Check out post #91. There are several companies releasing IIIA plates, and I am not impressed. If you are going to wear rigid plates, it does not make sense to wear pistol-only rated. At the minimum, they should stop AK rounds.

These plates are a solution in search of a non-existent problem. If you need extra trauma reduction, go with a rigid plate made of Titanium, which can be made 2.1mm thick and provide the same level of trauma reduction and protection.
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 01-28-2014, 1:35 PM
DeliveryBoy's Avatar
DeliveryBoy DeliveryBoy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orange County
Posts: 184
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Check out post #91. There are several companies releasing IIIA plates, and I am not impressed. If you are going to wear rigid plates, it does not make sense to wear pistol-only rated. At the minimum, they should stop AK rounds.

These plates are a solution in search of a non-existent problem. If you need extra trauma reduction, go with a rigid plate made of Titanium, which can be made 2.1mm thick and provide the same level of trauma reduction and protection.
Sorry, III+ not IIIA. Meaning they are hard armor at Level III. The "+" refers to being able to stop the m193 (which Level III does not technically specify).
__________________
WTB S&W Model 10 or S&W 357 (of various models) 3 or 4" barrel.

Stay Safe and Shoot Straight.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:02 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

I will look into them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryBoy View Post
Sorry, III+ not IIIA. Meaning they are hard armor at Level III. The "+" refers to being able to stop the m193 (which Level III does not technically specify).
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 01-29-2014, 2:12 AM
patriot_man's Avatar
patriot_man patriot_man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 2,368
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Doc have you taken a look at the Tyr III+ hard plates?

I am mind boggled by the weight and I've been hearing that these are used by a tier 1 unit so I would think they perform as advertised.

Link
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 01-29-2014, 9:14 AM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot_man View Post
Doc have you taken a look at the Tyr III+ hard plates?

I am mind boggled by the weight and I've been hearing that these are used by a tier 1 unit so I would think they perform as advertised.

Link
They are on my short list of new plates to evaluate. THE DBT KAP actually have me intrigued as well. Their construction method appears to be rather unique, in that they are using a ceramic composite "infusion" rather than monolithic panels. Such a construction method was suggested in IJIE (International Journal of Impact Engineering) several years back, and would be a step up in terms of ruggedness and durability.

The Tyr plates have been on my radar for a few months, and also look like they could be a good option. The only issue with both is of course, cost.

Will post more information after I have a chance to eval.
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 01-29-2014, 12:51 PM
Lifeon2whls's Avatar
Lifeon2whls Lifeon2whls is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Reseda
Posts: 1,768
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
If you need M193 protection, get a set of TAP GAMMA III plates. If you need to have protection against a single round (up to and including M2AP), then get a set of level IV plates. Just remember, it is probably better to have multi-hit protection against more common rounds rather than have one-shot and then junk 'em level IV.
Given the amount of energy that would be transferred after being hit by a rifle round, the wearer is going to...at the minimum, have the wind knocked out of them, possibly be bruised and potentially have some broken ribs, etc. Unless we are in a SHTF type of situation, my assumption would be that if I was protected by the armor, I would care less if I had to junk them after the hit and buy a new set (I equate this to a high quality motorcycle helmet...they are only good for one "hit" but you want the best possible. If you crash, you kiss the damaged one for saving your knoggin' just before you toss it in the trash and buy another one). I'm in the market for plates, so I am trying to be devils advocate here as I'm trying to figure out which route to go...so please let me know what I am missing.

I guess where my head is that I am trying to find the best protection/price/weight...and much less concerned about something that will allow me to be shot 10 times. Again, this assumes that the S has not HTF and I can go out and buy new plates if they are now junk.
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 01-29-2014, 2:00 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

You are correct. There is, however, a misconception with level IV plates that they are "better" than level III. Unlike soft armor, which goes from level I to IIIA in direct proportion to what they will stop (IIIA is a "better" armor than II for instance), the difference between III and IV is mostly the requirement for AP protection. I recommend III and III+ as a general rule because IV is just not worth the expense for the average person vice a warfighter that may need specific protection against penetrating rounds.

A "IV" plate is not necessarily "better", if it is thicker, more expensive, and less able to take multiple hits than a "III" plate. It all comes back to the specs. Level III is 6 rounds M80 ball @ 2750 fps/15 feet in a 6" circle. IV is *ONE* round of M2AP and lesser threats @ 2800 fps/30 feet, with no requirement to stop subsequent shots. Only you know which spec fits your requirements best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeon2whls View Post
Given the amount of energy that would be transferred after being hit by a rifle round, the wearer is going to...at the minimum, have the wind knocked out of them, possibly be bruised and potentially have some broken ribs, etc. Unless we are in a SHTF type of situation, my assumption would be that if I was protected by the armor, I would care less if I had to junk them after the hit and buy a new set (I equate this to a high quality motorcycle helmet...they are only good for one "hit" but you want the best possible. If you crash, you kiss the damaged one for saving your knoggin' just before you toss it in the trash and buy another one). I'm in the market for plates, so I am trying to be devils advocate here as I'm trying to figure out which route to go...so please let me know what I am missing.

I guess where my head is that I am trying to find the best protection/price/weight...and much less concerned about something that will allow me to be shot 10 times. Again, this assumes that the S has not HTF and I can go out and buy new plates if they are now junk.
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 01-30-2014, 1:17 PM
armyvet1973 armyvet1973 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thank you for the post. God bless you and the USA
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 02-07-2014, 8:38 AM
DeliveryBoy's Avatar
DeliveryBoy DeliveryBoy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orange County
Posts: 184
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
They are on my short list of new plates to evaluate. THE DBT KAP actually have me intrigued as well. Their construction method appears to be rather unique, in that they are using a ceramic composite "infusion" rather than monolithic panels. Such a construction method was suggested in IJIE (International Journal of Impact Engineering) several years back, and would be a step up in terms of ruggedness and durability.

The Tyr plates have been on my radar for a few months, and also look like they could be a good option. The only issue with both is of course, cost.

Will post more information after I have a chance to eval.
I look forward to the eval. I always enjoy popping into this thread once a month and catching up on the new armor testing and discussion. Thanks for the quality info.
__________________
WTB S&W Model 10 or S&W 357 (of various models) 3 or 4" barrel.

Stay Safe and Shoot Straight.
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 02-27-2014, 2:35 PM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Thanks for all the kind words! I am starting a blog, and will have reviews, evals, tests, and various other tidbits regarding armor, as well as my opinions (as always). Please follow me at http://www.drmorgear.wordpress.com

Last edited by d-r; 02-27-2014 at 9:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 03-01-2014, 11:10 AM
smashycrashy smashycrashy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,049
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Looking forward to the new blog, thanks for the link d-r.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 03-01-2014, 11:27 PM
DeliveryBoy's Avatar
DeliveryBoy DeliveryBoy is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orange County
Posts: 184
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Thanks for all the kind words! I am starting a blog, and will have reviews, evals, tests, and various other tidbits regarding armor, as well as my opinions (as always). Please follow me at http://www.drmorgear.wordpress.com
Enjoyed the first couple posts! I look forward to the rest!
__________________
WTB S&W Model 10 or S&W 357 (of various models) 3 or 4" barrel.

Stay Safe and Shoot Straight.
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 03-10-2014, 11:30 PM
neomedic's Avatar
neomedic neomedic is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
Posts: 2,508
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Trying to decide on some steel plates.

Patriot Plates vs Flash Bainite AR500 steel plates? Which is recommended and why?

And is it better to pick up plates with line-x and then use a fabric spall guard or just go unline with a fabric spall guard. For me... weight savings is more important than increased weight with minimal benefit.

And do you have link to what fabric spall guard is recommended? The old link to the calguns thread about fabric spall guard is dead.

Thanks.

EDIT: Is there a link on where to get Flash Bainite AR500 steel plates?

Last edited by neomedic; 03-10-2014 at 11:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 03-11-2014, 12:21 AM
d-r's Avatar
d-r d-r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 826
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

The Patriot plates are overall a better deal, and they are good folks over at Maingun Surplus.

I recommend a thin Line-X coat on all steel plates for corrosion protection, and it does not hurt to have a little extra spall mitigation. Spall guards should be worn with all steel plates, and many ceramic plates also benefit from them.

Updated links in thread for guards.
__________________
NEED GOOD INFO ON BODY ARMOR? Follow me at http://www.drmorgear.wordpress.com

Last edited by d-r; 03-11-2014 at 12:50 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:24 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.