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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 03-03-2014, 9:16 AM
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Don't use glue. Check to see if it is a crack with penetrating oil. If it is you can either run it or use it for a paper weight.
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  #82  
Old 03-03-2014, 9:48 AM
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If you're going to try ca glue go with rc car tire glue. It has a little flex to it so it wont just break free when stressed. Its also black in color so if will blend in better.
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  #83  
Old 03-03-2014, 12:12 PM
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Scottsbrad read some thing on the internet and now he is an expert! Forging are actually prone to be weaker based on grain structure. What experience do you have to be getting all worked up in a conversation which sounds like you have very little knowledge of? Any one can copy and paste
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  #84  
Old 03-03-2014, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldarshay View Post
And don't be afraid of assembling an upper. It's much easier than the lower
That's quite a leap...
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  #85  
Old 03-03-2014, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
You didn't read the entire thread. The quote by Grandpa is included. The purpose of the quote I included is to try to put the Forged vs. Billet debate to sleep.
You didn't read the post you quoted, because your response to it has very little to do with it.

His quoted response addressed a specific issue that was related to the OP. It addressed a property of the manufacturing process that could lead to a crack.

Your response was unrelated to the OP. It basically addressed a bunch of vaguely related manufacturing information.
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  #86  
Old 03-03-2014, 3:42 PM
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OP, do not use CA glue on your lower, if it is a crack it wont help in the slightest.

You said a few posts ago that the mark now extends all the way up to the top of the forging. Can you take one more picture and show us that? I am honestly trying to diagnose this for you.

I have a couple theories, one is that you have scratched the lower and that is it. The other theories are that either the anodizing or the forging are of poor quality.

I would not expect an aluminium forging to just crack, I would expect it to bend a lot first. A crack with little deformation is what I would expect from a poor casting or a forging that was cooled way too rapidly, but since almost all AR forgings come from a couple forging houses I would think that is a low probability.

This could be a poor anodizing job and the scratch is allowing the crappy anodize layer to crack through.

If this is not just a scratch, Aero should be contacted about it.
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  #87  
Old 03-03-2014, 10:39 PM
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Have you ever had a car windshield with a crack and then over time see that crack get bigger and bigger? I for one would not want that image on my mind every time I squeezed off a round. Just be safe and do the right thing.
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  #88  
Old 03-04-2014, 7:17 AM
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Default probably ok but....

The damage on the outside is strictly cosmetic. Find a good touch up paint and dab a little on. Heck, you could even use black finger nail polish as the lacquer is pretty tough stuff when dry.

As for the line, mark, (crack?) on the inside, it's so hard to tell just by looking at the photo. That area of the lower is not exactly a high stress area. Is the inside of the lower actually bent inward in that area? Get something flat and straight, hold it against the aluminum in that area and if the straight edge isn't sitting completely flat against the surface, its bent (and that'll be a problem).

From the little I can see without actually handling the lower in person, I think you are probably ok. That said, put your mind at ease and take it to a gunsmith. If it is actually cracked, a gunsmith can't really do much to fix it so by taking it in, you will be spending very little to (hopefully) nothing for a solid go/no go opinion.

Anyway, I hope all things work out. Building my first lower was a painful experience at certain points. Just make sure you are 100 percent happy with whatever you end up doing. Having any doubt about your rifle sucks and is worth making right.
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  #89  
Old 03-04-2014, 7:27 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it.

That portion of the gun doesn't go through any real significant forces anyhow.

I've got AR's that have been through much worse and have much worse damage, all still function absolutely fine. Of course it's not ideal, but they work fine.
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  #90  
Old 03-04-2014, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newb View Post
And yes, I had quite a battle with that roll pin. I tapped and tapped and tapped till I finally gave it a hard hit, causing the punch to slip under the pin. But as long as the damage is only cosmetic, it's fine with me. I figure it's going to get more scratches being used on the range anyway.
Next time use a roll pin punch when installing roll pins. They lock into the hole so that they do not slip out.
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  #91  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:12 PM
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If this really goes to 4 pages
I vote the OP takes the lower and makes a dedicated .22

I stand by my CA glue.
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  #92  
Old 03-05-2014, 7:00 AM
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That's looking like a crack to me...could be the lighting though. Especially that 3rd pic down:



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  #93  
Old 03-05-2014, 7:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb octane View Post
You haven't seen OP's hammer...

i chuckled and thought "HULK SMASH"
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  #94  
Old 03-05-2014, 7:39 AM
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Are you sure that fracture occurred after the incident you described and not at some other time? That looks a lot like a fracture from dry firing the hammer without an upper on it. Just my $.02.

Otherwise, even if it is cracked, it's still useable. It's not going to magically explode when you shoot it. The crack will just grow until it's big enough that you no longer feel comfortable using it.
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  #95  
Old 03-05-2014, 8:35 AM
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Default I'd give OP a pass...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
Next time use a roll pin punch when installing roll pins. They lock into the hole so that they do not slip out.
...on not using the ideal tool.

Problem is two fold...

1...Very little info on the web on correctly assembling a lower receiver.

2...Even if you find info on assembly, there's no place to buy a roll pin punch.

Bummer.

That said...

From the pics, it looks to me like a scratch on the inside. The lower is a low-stress part on the AR (hence plastic lowers )...the stress from firing a shot is confined, in the end, to the barrel extension and bolt lugs.

I would shoot the gun w/ no problems.

I'd agree it's hard to see why this thread ran 4 pages.
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  #96  
Old 03-05-2014, 9:02 AM
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just use It already. even if its a crack which I highly doubt, its safe to use since its the lower and not upper receiver.
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  #97  
Old 03-05-2014, 4:01 PM
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I didn't see the 3rd pick when I posted my first comments. That 3rd pick makes it look like it may be cracked and not just scratched. Gonna wanna find out just how bad that is. Go see a gunsmith.
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  #98  
Old 03-05-2014, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkside View Post
Holy Shiet... 2 pages and it can be resolved in 30 seconds...

It is already "blemished"

Get a piece of 320 grit sandpaper and lightly sand THE INSIDE of the finish away. If there is a visible line you have a crack. If there isnt you just need to use a lil more sharpie and your headache goes away. I am in Temecula area if you want me to do it.
This, or put some penetrating oil on one side and see if it finds its way to the other.
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  #99  
Old 03-05-2014, 11:14 PM
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I recently was needed to brake 80% chank. I was lazy to cut and tried to brake it in vise. Hell no, doesn't matter how hard I tried-no way. End up cutting on band saw.
I do not believe it is crack!
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  #100  
Old 03-06-2014, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sactown308 View Post
Scottsbrad read some thing on the internet and now he is an expert! Forging are actually prone to be weaker based on grain structure. What experience do you have to be getting all worked up in a conversation which sounds like you have very little knowledge of? Any one can copy and paste
Tell me all about your experience. I don't claim to have actual manufacturing experience or experience with materials, however, I have been listening to people on this (and other) forums try to make the argument that billet uppers and lowers are stronger, and I am simply pointing out the truth. I've done the reading and listened to the experts and I've yet to hear knowledgeable people in the firearms industry make the claim that forging is weaker than billet as described in the quote above.

I recognize this from my days building performance cars.

I want you to find a manufacturer that agrees with you. This issue has been discussed over and over on this forum. I don't claim to be an expert but I do listen to people who are. Ding-dong.

I'd be happy to see you make the argument.
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  #101  
Old 03-06-2014, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShagg View Post
You didn't read the post you quoted, because your response to it has very little to do with it.

His quoted response addressed a specific issue that was related to the OP. It addressed a property of the manufacturing process that could lead to a crack.

Your response was unrelated to the OP. It basically addressed a bunch of vaguely related manufacturing information.
You do have a comprehension issue. You did not read the thread. Grandpa was arguing that billet is stronger and suggested the OP buy Billet.
I not going to waste my time rebutting you until you learn to read.
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  #102  
Old 03-06-2014, 9:07 PM
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Dude your beating a dead horse. Read the actually quote from syds grandpa. He is saying a weak point in forgings. You are arguing something completely different. Your experience is "listening to people" your making your self not look so bright.
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  #103  
Old 03-06-2014, 9:35 PM
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There has been some good info on finding out if it's a crack or not. If you find it is a crack, one option would be drill a small hole on each end of the crack to terminate the crack. I really would not be worried about the crack as it is, it's in a very low stress area
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  #104  
Old 03-06-2014, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sactown308 View Post
Dude your beating a dead horse. Read the actually quote from syds grandpa. He is saying a weak point in forgings. You are arguing something completely different. Your experience is "listening to people" your making your self not look so bright.
No, I'm responding to people who obviously don't understand the argument and or didn't read the entire thread. You are "making yourself not look so bright". First take an English class or two it might help.

Grandpa, for all you people who cannot follow a train of thought, was making the argument that billet uppers are stronger because of flaws that sometimes happen in the forging process. He told the OP to buy billet.

I simply went back to some reference material and found a quote from a manufacturer, you know someone who actually builds rifles and components for a living and happens to be an expert.

The manufacturer's quote says it all. Forged uppers are stronger for any given shape than billet uppers. And that billet is only stronger when more material is added to stress points. Which makes the upper out of spec. and heavier.

It also implies that if you built a forged upper in the same shape as a billet upper it would be stronger than the billet upper.

So NO, I am not arguing anything different. You either didn't read the thread (not the post, the whole thread) or you are unable to follow. I can't help you with that.

By the way listening and reading what experts have to say is how you learn. I've been doing it for years just on these subjects.

I am not going to waste any more time trying to explain things to people who are incapable of understanding it.

But I'm sure old Grandpa would know what I was talking about...
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  #105  
Old 03-06-2014, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetguy View Post
There has been some good info on finding out if it's a crack or not. If you find it is a crack, one option would be drill a small hole on each end of the crack to terminate the crack. I really would not be worried about the crack as it is, it's in a very low stress area
IF it is a crack that is the first really good idea I've seen. Drill relief? holes at each end of the crack. As long as the crack didn't begin or terminate in a place where the drilled hole would make matters worse.

Nice idea.

I'm out of this thread...
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  #106  
Old 03-06-2014, 9:55 PM
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Put a foot in your mouth. You are an idiot. Your argument has nothing to do with grain structure. Your argument is to simply copy and paste something with no source saying that forged is not as strong. We are not talking strength here. We are talking a common fluke in a process. That is exactly why he referred to non destructive testing. Since you obviously can't follow this, this is a process which tests for cracks before even being used. Nothing to do with strength from billet to forged. Billet you are not going to have these cracks from the rapid heating and cooling. Billet has near perfect grain structure and doesn't need non destructive testing. You have no experience in jack **** to be getting worked up. Calm down, your gonna blow a head gasket, or better yet stress crack your lower.
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  #107  
Old 03-06-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
IF it is a crack that is the first really good idea I've seen. Drill relief? holes at each end of the crack. As long as the crack didn't begin or terminate in a place where the drilled hole would make matters worse.

Nice idea.

I'm out of this thread...
Are you kidding me? I gotta ask, what do you guys do for a living? It's gotta involve a suit, a Tie, and a telephone. Maybe a set of Fuller Brushes. Holey crap.
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  #108  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetguy View Post
There has been some good info on finding out if it's a crack or not. If you find it is a crack, one option would be drill a small hole on each end of the crack to terminate the crack. I really would not be worried about the crack as it is, it's in a very low stress area
Given the appearance of the bolt release parts, I don't think I'd recommend OP get a drill anywhere near that receiver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
IF it is a crack that is the first really good idea I've seen. Drill relief? holes at each end of the crack. As long as the crack didn't begin or terminate in a place where the drilled hole would make matters worse.
"Stop holes" are a common way to fix cracks in aluminum, assuming you can't replace the cracked part conveniently. That said, typically once you drill the stop holes, you also fix the crack.


Grandpa...wtf??

Forgings have been used for years for many receivers. Billet is OK, but that's not the way the weapon was designed. I do understand that perhaps Grandpa thinks he has the knowledge of Eugen Stoner, Garand, FN, Winchester, and other gun makers.
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  #109  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:06 AM
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I knew this would happen when I posted this 6 days ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
I knew someone would open up the Forged vs Billet Pandora's Box...

Syd's Grandpa set the bait and it didn't take long...

FWIW, I'm a fan a forged (wheels, lowers, etc)... yes we could go on for days... but we shouldn't
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  #110  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sactown308 View Post
Put a foot in your mouth. You are an idiot. Your argument has nothing to do with grain structure. Your argument is to simply copy and paste something with no source saying that forged is not as strong. We are not talking strength here. We are talking a common fluke in a process. That is exactly why he referred to non destructive testing. Since you obviously can't follow this, this is a process which tests for cracks before even being used. Nothing to do with strength from billet to forged. Billet you are not going to have these cracks from the rapid heating and cooling. Billet has near perfect grain structure and doesn't need non destructive testing. You have no experience in jack **** to be getting worked up. Calm down, your gonna blow a head gasket, or better yet stress crack your lower.
Have you never found defects in a billet? Trust me, they happen, especially in Chinese supplied metal.
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  #111  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:34 AM
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I think if it was a crack, it would have been there before anodizing since a good portion of it is darker then the surrounding finish.(if i am looking at the pictures correctly)
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  #112  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:44 AM
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Are you serious? What happens if you scratch it during actual live fire training? Or it might get sand or dirt in it, or maybe rained on? Maybe you should stick to an AirSoft replica and donate it to a returning vet.
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